Clinton says 'comfort women' should be referred to as 'enforced sex slaves'

TOKYO —

The Japanese government expressed concern Tuesday over remarks attributed to U.S. State Secretary Hillary Clinton in which she said that the “comfort women,” a euphemism for Asian women who were forced to serve as prostitutes for the Japanese military during World War II, was inaccurate and that the term “enforced sex slaves” was more accurate.

Clinton’s remarks were reported in the Korean paper, the Chosun Ilbo. The paper quoted a diplomatic source in Seoul, who said that Clinton—during a briefing on the Japanese wartime occupation of Korea—corrected a U.S. State Department official who referred to the victims as “comfort women.”

In Tokyo, Foreign Minister Koichiro Gemba said that Japan would seek clarification of Clinton’s remarks from the U.S. State Department, NTV reported.

The issue of “comfort women” is a thorny issue between Japan and South Korea.

Hundreds of thousands of Asian women, including Koreans, who were forcibly drafted for sex slavery for Japanese soldiers during the war, have been demanding an apology and compensation from the Japanese government for decades.

The Japanese government has repeatedly said it has no plans to reopen talks with Seoul. The government’s consistent position is that the issue of compensation was fully and completely resolved under the normalization treaty.

Japan Today

  • 25

    Speed

    I think it'll be a bit difficult for Japan to convince a woman that these women were anything but sex slaves. I think the name "sex slaves" fits.

  • 26

    sfjp330

    Gemba is asking for clarification like he's got amnesia. Downplaying this historical tragedy has been a long and well-known issue in Japan. In 2007, the J-goverment minister of education, Nakayama declared, "victimized women in Asia should be proud of being comfort women". This comment is hardly worth elaborating upon as it speaks for itself. What is worth pointing out is the brainwashing that began after WWII, when a defeated Japan was able to switch its position from that of aggressor to that of a victim. It is in part this attitude of victimization that has allowed Japan to downplay its atrocities throughout Asia, and which has inevitably led to the formation of many left wing individuals in Japan who are as unaware of their history as a patient afflicted by amnesia.

  • 19

    Jimizo

    'Comfort women' is an insidious euphemism. I don't know why we need 'enforced'. 'Sex slaves' does the job very well.

  • 22

    shanabelle

    Hillary is absolutely right in this case. 'Comort Women' is a ridiculous beatification of enslavement for sex.

  • 24

    Aliasis

    Clinton is right on. "Comfort women" always sounded weirdly gentle of a term to me, when the reality was that these women were nothing but sex slaves.

  • 4

    gaijinfo

    newsflash to the land of the setting sun: Your days as an economic superpower are over. Did you think you were coddled all those years because you were actually right? Or your pathetic self important posturing was actually accurate?

    As Korea and other Asian economies grow, Japan will realize the only reason people listened to your hot air was because of your markets. Now that those are becoming increasingly worthless, the world will ignore your desperate cries of self importance.

    Get used to it. I recommend focusing on those cartoon characters. That's what people think about Japan anyhow.

  • 16

    sfjp330

    Recently, two Japanese goverment officials visited Palisades Park, New Jersey, and they wanted local administrators to remove a small monument from a public park. The monument, a brass plaque on a block of stone, was dedicated in 2010 to the memory of so-called comfort women, tens of thousands of women and girls, many Korean and Chinese, who were forced into sexual slavery by Japanese soldiers during WWII. The Japanese authorities wanted Korean memorial removed. The consul general said the Japanese government was willing to plant cherry trees, donate books to the public library and do some things to show that we’re united in this world and not divided. But the offer was contingent on the memorial’s removal. The town officials rejected the request, and the delegation left.

    The second delegation arrived few weeks later with four J-goverment reps. Their approach was less diplomatic. These Japanese politicians, tried and asked that the monument be removed, to convince the Palisades Park authorities that comfort women had never been forcibly conscripted as sex slaves. They said the comfort women were a lie, that they were set up by an outside agency, that they were women who were paid to come and take care of the troops. Downplaying of history still continues.

  • 6

    bass4funk

    Japan needs to get used to the fact that this issue like the child custody issue will not go away because Japan feels uncomfortable to talk about it. Oh, well. Like with these and other issues that Japan is so reluctant to have a dialogue about. Gaijininfo is right, all Japan is doing is marginalizing itself further into irrelevant obscurity. They don't like the language or the proper euphemism, who cares, it is what it is, face up to it. I just don't understand why many in this country see themselves like they are the real victims in all of this. But we all know saving face for Japan is far more important and takes trump over everything else.

  • 9

    Disillusioned

    Ah, the Japanese must accept the fact that, no matter how you word it, history cannot be changed. The atrocities committed by Japan throughout Asia in the first half of the last century will never be forgotten and for many countries, they will never be forgiven either.

  • -18

    timtak

    Which part of the above is rocket science for Gemba.

    The part which says that the women were forcibly drafted.

    Even those against the term (Hata) admit, however, that often advance payments were made, often to family members, resulting in a form of bonded labor, which is often refereed to as a type of slavery. But if everyone who accepted an advance payment prior to commencement of work were called a slave, then there would be a lot of slaves, many of whom do not see themselves as slaves. To say that all of the comfort women (200,000) were slaves seems very unfair to me.

  • -20

    Schopenhauer

    In the old days when there were legal prostitution systems in the world, it was not viewed as it is criticized today. Clinton! Don't forget that America had the legal slave system until the civil right legislation. It was not a long time ago.

  • 9

    ukguyjp

    "The Japanese government expressed concern..." Of course they did. The truth hurts, doesn't it?

  • 7

    Tamarama

    It's kind of interesting that Japan cannot seem to grasp the importance of simple honesty in matters of this nature. The only possible purpose I can see to the insistent use of such an obvious misnomer is a form of national self denial with either an inability to comrehend the way that looks and is perceived in the outside world, and in particular the victims, or a complete lack of care about how that looks and is perceived. But Mrs Clinton has found a shoe that fits very snugly indeed.

  • 2

    Crystalyle

    Clinton - We LOVE YOU!!! I love Obama's administration and Democrats alike. NO BS....just good honest truth.

    Don't change a thing. Don't retract your remarks. The term "Comfort Women" is very insidious indeed. I concur with other posters here.

    Good on ya!!!

  • 5

    Herve Nmn L'Eisa

    It is without doubt true that these women were indeed sex slaves, being forced to do such a reprehensible thing against their will. Likewise, the soldiers who were conscripted(call it drafted or enslaved) were also slaves doing reprehensible things largely against their will(though many were brainwashed to think they were patriotically "defending their country ").

  • -29

    KariHaruka

    Keep out of stuff that doesn't concern you Clinton.

  • -36

    the-grouch

    Funny how after all these years, people are still dwelling in the past. I think this is old news and call them whatever you want. Comfort women, whores, sluts, forced sexual laborers, duds, warm pockets, etc. This was war time. There is no legislature in the Geneva Convention Act that states countries should apologize for this. If it were wartime again... it would most certainly happen again. these women, their siblings and so forth are just looking for a quick buck and attention. I say, if in wartime, grab a rifle and defend yourself.

  • 8

    LFRAgain

    "Foreign Minister Koichiro Gemba said that Japan would seek clarification of Clinton’s remarks . . . "

    How much more bleepin' clarification does Tokyo need? He knows precisely what she means, and he knows she's right.

  • 2

    Open Minded

    She is 100% right. But prostitution is anyway 80-90% a sex slave business. Like everywhere the marines developed this business where it was not that common in Asia before, e.g. Philippines, Thailand. Thus she is right to raise the point, but I am sure it would be highly appreciated if she would denounce the same cr....p done by her citizen/soldiers in Asia and South America!

  • 1

    alliswellinjapan

    Agree there to be nothing wrong with referring to them as sex slaves as there is probably little doubt less some exceptional cases that the term accurately captures how they were treated. This should apply not only for the comfort women of those days but also the "yujos" in the Edo/Meiji era and the prostitute women from Korea and elsewhere who continue to come to Japan, US and all parts of the world to this today enduring all kinds of external forces which make sure they remain at their work. The issue with comfort women is not just about Japan and other parts of Asia but is a representative example of a more universal issue having more to do with fundamental human rights which need to be addressed and improved at a global level. Japan as it does with the anti-nuclear/anti-warware activities and education should also take a stronger and clearer stand on this issue as something they have learned from the war, but since this issue has little to do directly with the lives of the everyday people here (and the world for that matter) it seems difficult for public sentiments to symphathize and be outraged over matters of this nature at a meaningful level.

  • -11

    y3chome

    She may be right but..... why come over to stir things up?

  • -3

    nigelboy

    QUESTION: It’s about so-called comfort women issue between Korea and Japan. Korean newspaper Chosun Ilbo reported that the Secretary Clinton told State Department official that the term “comfort women” is wrong and should be referred to as “enforced sex slaves.” Can you comment on that?

    MR. VENTRELL: Well, again, what I can say in general is that what happened to these women during World War II was deplorable. The U.S. position is that it was a grave human rights violation of enormous proportions, and we extend our sincere and deep sympathy to the victims.

    In terms of what may or may not have been said in a private meeting, I just – I don’t have any readout for you.

    QUESTION: Which terminology do you use for – to describe those women, comfort women or sex slaves?

    MR. VENTRELL: Again, I don’t know if the U.S. Government has a preferred term. I can look into it, but I just don’t know if we have a --

    QUESTION: I didn’t quite get – understand what you said. And so U.S. position is that they are actually enforced sex slaves?

    MR. VENTRELL: Again, I don’t have for – here for you today to readout a particular terminology that is the preferred U.S. Government term. What I can tell you is that during World War II what happened to these women was deplorable. I’d be happy to look in to see if we have a preferred U.S. Government term, but at this point that’s all I have for you.

    QUESTION:** **What is your understanding?****

    MR. VENTRELL: Hmm?

    QUESTION:** What is your understanding?**

    MR. VENTRELL:** I don’t have anything further for you.**


    http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2012/07/194761.htm#JAPAN

    But prostitution is anyway 80-90% a sex slave business.

    In modern perspective, you're correct.

    It is estimated that there are about 100,000 Korean prostitutes operating outside Korea today with nearly half in Japan. This is quite an astouding figure considering the fact that Korea of today are much more economically wealthy than they were during the early 20th century. Now one has to wonder why IJA needs to force these women into prostitution considering the economic conditions.

    http://sankei.jp.msn.com/world/news/120708/kor12070807000000-n1.htm

  • 5

    smithinjapan

    Timtak: "To say that all of the comfort women (200,000) were slaves seems very unfair to me."

    To say that women who were forcibly raped were NOT sex slaves is hardly fair either, is it?

    Anyway, when Gemba, if he even bothers, goes to ask Clinton for 'clarification' I think he'll be quite unpleasantly surprised by the candor with which she repeats herself, and given that she pushes strongly for women's rights he'll get an earful if he pushes the issue. I hope she makes more of this issue on the world stage -- that's the only way the Japanese ever learn is through international embarrassment.

  • 3

    badmigraine

    Open Minded, I agree with your point, but you need to go and study history if you really think that prostitution was uncommon in Asia until the Marines introduced it! Maybe you're saying the provision of such services to visiting or occupying troops was uncommon until introduced to these places by Marines? I don't think that's credible at all. For as long as there have been invasions and armies, this has been a sad feature of it all.

  • 5

    Colleen Rain

    >

    <SchopenhauerJul. 11, 2012 - 08:19AM JST

    In the old days when there were legal prostitution systems in the world, it was not viewed as it is criticized today. Clinton! Don't forget that America had the legal slave system until the civil right legislation. It was not a long time ago. >

    You are obviously not a scholar of US history or you would know:

    1. Slavery was abolished by Presidential Proclamation on January 1, 1863. A war followed between states who refused to recognize this and the states who were dedicated to enforcing it. We call it "The Civil War".

    2. The civil rights movement began in the 1950's and culminated in a 1966 law striking down segregation or separate but equal facilities or " Jim Crow" laws that were prevalent in the Southern states who went to war to fight the enforcement of the 1863 Presidential Proclamation. See above.

    3. One hundred and forty five years later the USA elected a Black President, the first "first world country" in modern history (CE) to do so. He is in office today.

    Secretary of State Clinton is an accomplished women whose address to the UN in 1995 on the rights of women was considered groundbreaking. Her nomenclature regarding "comfort women" is exactly as it should be. http://eloquentwoman.blogspot.com/2011/11/famous-speech-friday-hillary-clintons.html

  • 4

    Wayne Robinson

    She may be right but..... why come over to stir things up?

    Why because it's about time Japan accepted its responsibilities to the world not only lolling out for themselves and so they stop evading issues and making loopholes such as whales for science... And yes the wording of comfort women. Comfortable as they may have been....

  • 2

    FightingViking

    Only tyhe truth hurts...

  • 6

    sfjp330

    nigelboy Jul. 11, 2012 - 09:06AM JST. It is estimated that there are about 100,000 Korean prostitutes operating outside Korea today with nearly half in Japan. This is quite an astouding figure considering the fact that Korea of today are much more economically wealthy than they were during the early 20th century. Now one has to wonder why IJA needs to force these women into prostitution considering the economic conditions.

    How can you compare? There is no comparison from today to situation of comfort wormen under Japanese rule in WWII. Approximately 75 percent (3 out of 4) of Korean and Chinese comfort women died in WWII, and most survivors were left infertile due to sexual trauma or sexually-transmitted disease. Can you say the same today? The women cried out, but it didn't matter to Japanese soldiers whether the women lived or died. They were the emperor's soldiers. Whether in military brothels or in the villages, these soldiers raped without reluctance and beatings and physical torture were said to be common. In the “Comfort Station” many were systematically beaten and raped day and night. Even the Japanese doctor raped many of them each time he visited the brothel to examine us for venereal disease. Some were forced into slavery even when they were not old enough to have started menstruating. After the war, the court testimonies state that these prepubescent girls were repeatedly raped by Japanese soldiers while those who refused to comply were executed.

  • 5

    Crystalyle

    KariHaruka

    It is very much America's business. Your government wanted us involved in problems happening on the Korean Peninsula. Well here we are.

    South Korea is our ally too in case you forgot.

  • 7

    Zen student

    Hillary is spot on. That's exactly what they were: "sex slaves". But Japan has gotten so used to feeding itself on its own propaganda, that it sometimes forgets what the truth sounds like. Japan should learn more from Germany - a country who has done a truly commendable job of ensuring that its post-WWII generations knew EXACTLY what the Nazis did (concentrations camps etc.) Japan should be ashamed of its moral cowardice.

    On the topic of it positioning itself as a 'victim state', that is certainly true. The Japanese fascists were definitely aggressors but the ordinary people and those who were unfortunate enough to be in Hiroshima and Nagasaki on those dark days in history were victims. It's sad (albeit a little too predictable as well) that Japan has not faced up to the aggression and misery that they caused to other nations in South East Asia. Voluntary amnesia I guess.

  • 7

    LFRAgain

    "Keep out of stuff that doesn't concern you Clinton."

    When the U.S. is a partner in a strategic alliance between Japan and South Korea, yes, it absolutely does concern the U.S. Particularly when there are significant elements in the government on both sides who would love nothing more than to get some measure of payback from the other party for slights perceived.

    This kind of volatility is not the bedrock upon which stable alliances are built. Japan has needed to own up to this issue for the past 65 years, and still continues to apply what is quite frankly an offensive euphemism for systemized sexual slavery during Japan's, yes, brutal occupation of the Korean Peninsula.

    To continue to call the women forced to act as sex toys for the Japanese Imperial Army something so cutesy as "comfort women" is certain to enrage a vital partner in a region where we've got a two-steps-shy-of-bats#it-insane military junta sitting on top of nuclear weapons and regularly threatening to light the entire region up if the world doesn't feed them.

    And this dance between Japan and South Korea has been going on for 65 years. Japan is like the former alcoholic uncle who beat his now ex-wife, but insists on referring to those days as, "Back when I had a little too much sauce." and tells his ex with scars from the assaults, "It was all in good fun. Can't we just forget about it?"

    Sometimes, it takes a stern word from a concerned friend or two to get folks in denial to stop hiding from an issue just because it's too embarrassing.

  • -6

    timtak

    The only possible purpose I can see to the insistent use of such an obvious misnomer....

    The "misnomer" is a good translation of "Ianfu" used at the time, during the war, in Korean National newspaper advertisements. So why did the Japanese use this "misnomer" in their newspaper adverts? Why did they not advertise for prostitutes, or since that has multiple interpretations, for people who would perform coital sex for money? Why didn't they put out adverts saying "Women to perform coital sex for money wanted."?

    Why, about 20 years later during the Korean war, did Koreans put out the exact same advertisements, in the same newspapers, advertising for comfort women (using the same kanji "Ianfu") who were in fact to performing coital sex for money?

    I suggest that the reason for the "misnomer" has nothing to do with all the insidious (I would say slanderous) things that the Japanese are being accused of. Far from a lack of honesty, and further from a "lack of care about how that looks and is perceived", but simply for the same reason that for instance in the USA, garbage collectors are called Hygiene Operatives, Recycling Technicians, Sanitation Engineers, Sanitation Officers, and Waste Controllers.

    Since, as supplied and desired by many types of worker in many types of industry, the comfort women and or families members received advance payments in lieu of labour, making the comfort women bonded labourers, perhaps the Japanese should have advertised for sex slaves? Did the Korean women who worked during the Korean war receve any advance payments and if so why weren't they recruited as sex slaves? If one advertises for a "sanitation expert" and pays him or her an advance payment does one advertise for "garbage slaves"?

  • 5

    Pukey2

    You go, girl! Telling it like it is! Although I have to say, America should never had let Japanese war criminals off the hook, to enter politics again. This xenophobic, arrogant, evil right-wing mindset never disappeared, despite all this rhetoric of world peace.

    I see the usual apologists like HariHaruka and Nigelboy are out in force, defending the disgusting elements in this country. The fact is, people outside Japan know all this, and no amount of euphemisms or denial will change that. The Japanese government is just waiting for all the sex slaves to die off so that this issue can be swept under the rug and forgotten. But they will NOT be forgotten.

    It's funny how, when praised by westerners, Japan pats itself on the back and takes in all the compliments. But when they have their wrists slapped, it gets all sulky.

  • -4

    timtak

    ”xenophobic, arrogant, evil right-wing mindset never disappeared”

    Where do folks get these ideas from?

    The Japanese, aware that their grunts had a tendency to rape the women of nations they invaded (nothing new here), decided as they are an extremely kind and civilised nation, to set up a system of prostitution, which they did in the only way that would have worked, by paying the women about 20 times the pay of a private in the army, or a nurse at the time. Since the work was harsh and often in war zones, they also offered advance payments.

    Then later they are accused of being xenophobic, arrogant and evil. What is going on?

  • -5

    nigelboy

    There is no comparison from today to situation of comfort wormen under Japanese rule in WWII. Approximately 75 percent (3 out of 4) of Korean and Chinese comfort women died in WWII, and most survivors were left infertile due to sexual trauma or sexually-transmitted disease.

    sfjp330

    How does one arrive at this when the number of comfort women is up to question?

    Before you use your wikepedia amount of 200,000 presented by Yoshimi, this is how he arrived at the number.

    Yoshimi:明確にするのは困難。理由は、軍資料が焼却されたこと、警察資料が公開されていないこと、「慰安婦」の名簿がないこと。警察庁の資料では400名の業者名があるが、女性の個人名は求めていない。

    "It's difficult to know the exact amount since military records are burned, police records are not open, and there are no list of "comfort women". According to the police, there are 400 operators but they don't disclose the comfort women's names."

    Q; あえて人数を推計すれば?

    "If you were to guess how many"

    Yoshimi: 陸軍は上から兵100人に1人の「慰安婦」といった。ならば海外の兵員は最大350万人だから、300万として3万人、交代数を入れて6万人、その間で4万5000人となる。

    ただしこれは上からあてがった数字で、現地の軍が独自に集めた数があるともっと増える。大体8万から20万人とされるが、そんなに不当な数ではない。

    "Based on the premise that for the IJA, every 100 soldiers to one comfort women and if you include the military personnel overseas with the maximum amount of 3.5 million soldiers, 3 million solders will equal to 30,000. With some military personnel rotation involved add 60,000 would then total approximately 45,000 comfort women.

    However, this estimate is based on the allocation but if you were to include recruitment overseas the numbers will increase. It's not unrealistic to assume an estimate of 80,000~200,000."

    Now, how does one arrive to 100 soldiers to 1 comfort women ratio? Is there any source to back this BS up? Also, why does this "allocation" suddenly gets added TWICE when it's well known that the operators ATTACHED themselves to the particular military unite?

    As western media has repeatedly printed, the "200,000" number is attached to any reports on the comfort women when there hasn't been any worthwhile studies to actually investigate the actual numbers other than Prof. Hata.

    Also, you mention rape. What about children born out of wedlock like the thousands and thousands of Raittaihan (half Korean/half Vietnamese children as a result of rape during Vietnam War)? Where are they, sfjp330?

  • 3

    ka_chan

    Somehow the term "enforced sex slaves" seems a bit redundant and awkward. That being said, there is no doubt that Japan committed numerous war crimes during the 1930's and 40's including mass killing of 3-10 Million people, germ and biological warfare, forced labor, and even cannibalism.

  • 1

    Rick Brant

    The Japanese still hasn't apologize for the war crimes they committed against the Chinese people during World War II. The incident I am talking about is the Rape of Nanking back in 1937. The International Military Tribunal for the Far East estimated that 20,000 women were raped, including infants and the elderly. A large portion of these rapes were systematized in a process where soldiers would search door-to-door for young girls, with many women taken captive and gang raped. The women were often killed immediately after being raped, often through explicit mutilation or by stabbing a bayonet, long stick of bamboo, or other objects into the vagina. Young children were not exempt from these atrocities, and were cut open to allow Japanese soldiers to rape them.

  • 1

    hoserfella

    At which point do I become a slave

    timtak - try being raped over and over and over again by some of the worst filth that the 20th century had to offer. That might answer your question.

  • 1

    hoserfella

    The Japanese, aware that their grunts had a tendency to rape the women of nations they invaded (nothing new here), decided as they are an extremely kind and civilised nation, to set up a system of prostitution, which they did in the only way that would have worked, by paying the women about 20 times the pay of a private in the army, or a nurse at the time. Since the work was harsh and often in war zones, they also offered advance payments.

    One of the saddest little revisionist posts I've ever read. Now timtak will have us believe Japanese propoganda where the victims were not only heroic volunteers, but paid handsomely. Disgusting.

    • Moderator

      All readers please calm down and don't let your emotions carry you away.

  • -9

    timtak

    I am not sure why you are calling Japanese troops filth.

    Whether I was "raped" or not would answer the question as to whether I am a slave or employed.

  • -11

    timtak

    What hoserfella makes you believe that my rendition is "Japanese propaganda"?

    The salary offered at the start of the war at least, is fully documented. Towards the end the women were unable to cash the bonds that they were paid since the Japanese wartime government was defeated and effectively ceased to exist.

  • 1

    hoserfella

    I am not sure why you are calling Japanese troops filth.

    read just one of several history books which detail systematic Japanese brutality during WW2, then you'll understand.

    Whether I was "raped" or not would answer the question as to whether I am a slave or employed

    no, it would only make you understand how you belittle the sex slaves themselves with your ridiculous argument.

  • 5

    hoserfella

    timtak - any basic history article not edited by the Japanese government themselves will explain clearly that at the start of the war, only Japanese prostitutes were paid and when the war expanded, women from occupied countries such as Korea and Taiwan for example, were either lured by lies of real jobs or simply forced into brothels. And no, the lucky few who lived were not paid.

  • -6

    timtak

    I have read a fair bit about the war. It strikes me that there was a lot of brutality on both sides. It was a very brutal situation. Many of the ones in English were, unsurprisingly, representative of allied, and anti-Japanese viewpoints. This is perhaps not surprising that the English language media presents a negative picture of the Japanese.

    I do believe that some in the comfort women system were forced and this is a tragedy. Due to the existance of this tragedy, however, it does not seem a good idea to me to therefore assume that all those, or most of those in the comfort women system were raped. I believe, from looking at the numbers coming forward, and the accounts made by those coming forward (a number of the Taiwanese complained of the lack of salary towards the end of their time as comfort women, not regarding the manner of their recruitment), that slaves were in the minority. I would like to read information that suggests otherwise.

  • 3

    Robert Dykes

    I totally agree that the term should be changed. I totally agree that Japan has tried to cover up and down play many part of the war and it past.

  • 0

    Paul Arenson

    The person who made this comment: "victimization that has allowed Japan to downplay its atrocities throughout Asia, and which has inevitably led to the formation of many left wing individuals in Japan who are as unaware of their history as a patient afflicted by amnesia".

    First point, it is the LEFT in Japan which has supported the claims of the sex slaves. The left which opposed Japanese imperialism, who themselves we incarcerated and even tortured,. It is the left which opposes nuclear weapons, and the atomic bombing.

    It is the unrepentant fascists of Imperial Japan who, as the LDP, we're put back in power by the GHQ. The LDP government stripped former Japanese nationals in the colonies (in Korea they were known as Kyowakai) of their nominal citizenship and imposed the alien registration system. It is the LDP, used by the US to maintain hegemony, which for long avoided the issue of sex slaves. When they no longer could, they made tacit admissions. The largely conservative DPJ which is now in power also hesitates to make a clear apology, though things have come closer.

    Only recently the bureaucrats have expressed the hope that a New Jersey town not allow a monument to the comfort women. In this story, the Japanese gov is still concerned. This belies the supposed contrition, as does the fact that school textbooks are still subject to defecto censorship.

    Now, as to Hilalry Clinton, she should be careful regarding her own countriy's role in atrocities, including killing kids with drone strikes, and the US legacy of propping up right leaning govs, such as the LDP gov. During the runup to the Ampo security treaty, the LDP used Yakuza to beat leftwing students. The U.S. used Japan as a forward base to napalm bomb and kill and maim with Agent Orange. In Afghanistan, the US helped to create the Taliban through its support of forces fighting the Soviet backed gov. And we supported the murderous Northern Alliance, also anti women, while true feminist Afghans like Rawa oppose the US role in destabilizing their country. Hillary's respect for human rights is only skin deep.

    These points are not off topic. There is a context to things and, while Hillary is right, she does not have the authority to speak. The true friends of the comfort women are the grass roots people, lawyers, etc. who stand in solidarity with these victims of Japanese imperialism, who also condemn the fact that Japan has become a yes-man to the U.S.-enabling its wars, it's neoliberal agenda which imposes a Darwinist survival of the fittest on workers. The Japanese right, while it has it's Nutcakes who occasionally resent the U.S., largely serves the U.S. interests.

    If kids do not know their history, it has nothing to do with the left, which has struggled for decades against censorship by the Monkasho. Ienaga Saburo, a historian like the late Howard Zinn, fought the official version of history that places one's own country in a positive light all the way to the Supreme court. The Hashimotos of Osaka and Ishiharas of Tokyo could only get elected because the right still has a stranglehold on people's thought processes. Racist diatribes by the latter and attempts to deny Osaka workers their human rights by the former are what you get when the education system also denies kids the right to see the various viewpoints on theses slave issue, or any other controversIal topic.

  • 3

    hoserfella

    Timtak- the old "they did ot too" routine, eh? Really? Where are the thousands of women allied soldiers forced into rape stations? Where is the American equivalent to the Bataan Death March? Where is the Chinese equivalent to the Rape of Nanking? I could go on but I'm sure you get the point by now. Or not. Only hardcore Japanese nationalists and their lapdog western japanophiles would dispute The real history of Japanese atrocities

  • -3

    kazetsukai

    The key here is whether Clinton should have called these women using the words she used. It is sad that international and national, both in USA and in Japan) political interests have cause such an uproar. Clinton has always tried to "play up to China" and to South Korea as their financial wealth comes from them.

    If it was not an "organized" and somewhat humane method of sexual release for hundreds of thousands of men fighting for life and death in a war that many did not even understand fully, there would have been massive "rape" of all generations of women and children all over the captured territories. That was the case with the Russian movement into Manchuria, the Chinese liberation army crossing into Beijing, and even during the Korean and Viet Nam wars. Probably better to call it organized "prostitution" which prevented outright indiscriminate "rape" of women and children. For the Japanese, putting current moral ethical values of the West aside, as so vividly portrayed in their movies of the feudal era, "prostitution" was an accepted way for many to earn a living. So it was with almost all Asian nations including China and Korea.

    Sadly most major wars have been fought within the last 200 years and only recently after the Viet Nam war has there been a more so called "acceptable" and "recognized" warfare. That is until the "terrorist" attacks happened.

    However, in all wars, "raping of women" in captured territories have been a sad history. So this organized "comfort women" by an institution may have been better. It is probably better than being killed, or ending up committing suicide after being "raped". It may even be better than being drugged and forced to sell one's body for the "pimps" as things are going today.

  • 3

    2020hindsights

    timtak

    that slaves were in the minority. I would like to read information that suggests otherwise.

    You are in fact incorrect, most of the women were co-coerced, or where money was offered, thought that they would be working in factories.

    Much of the information you would like to read was, of course, destroyed, but documents still exist.

  • -5

    timtak

    Timtak- the old "they did ot too" routine, eh? Really? Where are the thousands of women allied soldiers forced into rape stations? Where are the thousand of women Japanese soldiers forced into rape stations?

    What does exist is are adverts for "Comfort women" during the second world war to provide sexual services to Japanese soldiers and for "Comfort women" to provide sexual services for UN soldiers in the Korean war.

  • -3

    illsayit

    "The true friends of the comfort women are the grass roots people, lawyers...."

    I cant believe lawyers, -unless their on my side of course-I think you're opinionated here in this part of your statement. To sweep it all under one blanket is not taking things in context, imo. By your trying to do that, as if you could know history, when let's be real, unless we were there, there is a lot that we estimate/guesstimate about it all.

    Your referring to the educational system would mae one wonder at what level of education you are referring to. Again you sweep it all together, and by doing so, you sound racist too.Or at the least, a certain type of prejudice.

  • -4

    kazetsukai

    Just an added note.... as far as I can tell... NO NATION HAS EVER "APOLOGIZED" FOR THE "RAPING" OF WOMEN DURING WAR.

    Also WAR is not something that follows rules.... One only wishes that one can be "honorable".... but "honorable" has a different meaning and reference point for everyone.

    For today's terrorist, what we may call humane and honorable means nothing. So as with politicians, much of the rhetoric is quite "self-serving".

  • 4

    hoserfella

    Timtak- how does that excuse the overwhelming majority of foreign women who were forced into it?

  • 4

    TSRnow

    Do the victims themselves have a word to explain their situation? If I was in their shoe, I would surely want apologies and compensation, but being pointed out again as sex slaves... would be pretty hard to bear...

  • 3

    gogogo

    Can think of a few more:

    "mothers returning from broken marriage with kids" ... "child kidnapping".

    "research"... "commercial hunting".

  • -10

    timtak

    Timtak- how does that excuse the overwhelming majority of foreign women who were forced into it?

    Please provide some evidence that the overwhelming majority of foreign women were forced into it.

    As far as I am aware, there is little evidence to support this assertion, though I firmly believe that some were forced.

  • 0

    alliswellinjapan

    Prostitution has never been fully legal in any parts of the modern world despite strong market demand, thus the business will always remain fully grey and legally, politically, morally incorrect acts in all accounts will continue to be committed thereby victimizing many of the women involved against their will. If under war, the magnitude of the incurred tragedies would obviously be much worse. While I fully disagree to any suggestion that it was in the full interest of the "evil minded demons of Japan's Imperialist government" to approve the comfort women system to mindlessly promote the inhumane concept of sex slavery (as opposed to a managed prostiitution system to control the libido of the army while securing prostitutes (or volunteers thereof) to comfortably participate), I nonetheless consider it naive to assume that they were unable to foresee the possible consequences, thus consider them to have been responsible for any tragedies caused (I'm sure there were many). Having said that, my point is rather that while I am in full agreement of referring to them as sex slaves, it should be referred to as such in a broader, more universal, thus more important context of fundamental human rights and that we should apply the same terminology for all other similar cases to lead this discussion in a more productive direction. One should be mindful of the fact that, as tragic as lives of many of the comfort women may have been, women from Korea and elsewhere continue to suffer similar circumstances in Japan, US and elsewhere and should be addressed alongside and/or independent from the "overall tragedies of WW2" topic which I fear this discussion will be limited to if otherwise. My optimistic take is that this view is in line with Hillarys original intentions and how she will respond to Japan's formal inquiry (if any).

  • 1

    Tom Webb

    FM Gemba, there is no need for clarification of Hillary's comment. The Japanese Government policy was to take women from Korea and use them as forced sex slaves for the Imperial Japanese forces. You guys in JP have selected memories concerning the war you started and lost, so try hard to acknowledge your wrongs and take care of those poor old women.

  • -2

    Bluebris

    Japan will seek clarification? On what, exactly? Clinton was spot on.

  • 0

    hoserfella

    Timtak - the only textbooks which refute this matter are, (drumroll) Japanese textbooks. If you don't want to believe it, no one can force you to. I'm sure you have earned a cold beer from your Japanese master(s) tonight.

  • -1

    Discomfort

    Well, Clinton is partly right and partly wrong. Some comfort women were comfort women. They chose the work and they got paid. Other women were sex slaves, as they were forced, tricked, raped and/or paid much too little or not at all.

    Until both sides acknowledge that there were both comfort women and sex slaves, and accurately differentiate between the two, this issue will just keep going in circles.

  • -2

    Discomfort

    NO NATION HAS EVER "APOLOGIZED" FOR THE "RAPING" OF WOMEN DURING WAR.

    Sort of missing the point. This is not about apologizing or admitting random rapes by random soldiers. The point is about apologizing and admitting an established system of rape created and perpetrated by the military, and by extention, the government.

  • 0

    kazetsukai

    Many apply "current views" based on so called "human rights" promoted by the US policy makers for international moral and ethical standards.

    The problem is... "human rights" and rights of women, really is new ,even in our societies. Much of that was recognized within the last 100 years. So the moral ethical issue should not dominate the discussion.

    The war to which we address, WWII and "comfort women" happened. Apologies have been made. Changing names at this point only aggravates the emotional state between the nations by bringing the issue back up again. has only been 60 years since the end of the war. As an ambassador for world peace, Clinton had no business raising the issue again. It serves to benefit only the selfish interest of the USA, China and Korea. In this case, more to benefit Clinton and her Chinese and Korean friends than even USA and Japan relationships. It even appear to give the "green light" to have China be aggressive over the disputed islands and rights to the oceans near Japan.

  • 0

    Discomfort

    Changing names at this point

    Like Clinton, you are partly correct. A spade should be called a spade. A comfort woman was a comfort woman, and a sex slave was a sex slave. One is not the other, and anyone using the term "comfort woman" to describe both, was and is hiding the sex slaves and the facts, then, as now, and they know it.

  • -3

    Thomas Anderson

    To those who are attacking Clinton herself or America... it's called ad hominem. When you can't attack the argument, you attack the person instead... It's just sad and desperate.

  • 3

    2020hindsights

    timtak

    Please provide some evidence that the overwhelming majority of foreign women were forced into it.

    As far as I am aware, there is little evidence to support this assertion, though I firmly believe that some were forced.

    Here some light reading for a start:

    Japan's Comfort Women: Sexual Slavery and Prostitution During World War II and the US Occupation - Yuki Tanaka

    The Comfort Women: Sexual Violence and Postcolonial Memory in Korea and Japan - Sarah Soh

    Comfort Women. Sexual Slavery in the Japanese Military During World War II, Asia Perspectives - Yoshiaki Yoshimi

    The Comfort Women. Japans Brutal Regime of Enforced Prostitution in the Second World War - George Hicks

  • -2

    Discomfort

    Please provide some evidence that the overwhelming majority of foreign women were forced into it.

    There is the same kind of evidence that Jerry Sandusky sexual abused boys: testimony from the victims. When you have so much of that sort of evidence, you really don't need physical evidence, although it helps. There is lots of evidence. Its just that suddenly some people want to make believe that victim testimony no longer counts.

  • -6

    Thomas Anderson

    I just want to know... WHY Japan has so much trouble accepting their past, or even entertaining the idea that they may have done bad things. Is it their ego? Are they just selfish and self-centered? They have no empathy for others? They can't imagine others' suffering and plight? They can't put themselves in others' shoes? Too egocentric? Too concerned about their pride and saving face? Why??

    Why controversial issues like these always spark outright outrage and anger or even rage (a sign of feeling threatened and desperate) from Japan, or even most extreme rightists in general, has always been puzzling to me... Why, why is it so important for them to consider that their own country may be "tainted"? It's very strange.

    I think one of the explanations is that they may think that people will hate them for admitting that their country has done some bad things. But people will hate them even more for denying and not owning up to their mistakes. It's just a cheap cop-out.

  • -1

    Cletus

    I dont see what the big deal is with Clinton saying that. After all it is a more fitting description of what occurred, the term comfort women does not really sound that bad considering what these women where forced to endure. The term sex slave is a much more accurate description.

    But it needs to be remembered (especially by those denying it) that the practise was not restricted to Korean women, the Japanese also forced European and other groups into this practise. What is truly disgusting but totally expected is the reaction of the Japanese to this. They really do like to pretend that they did no wrong and really dont like the truth about their actions being bought out into the public glare. Facts are facts the Imperial Japanese military was a disgusting, vile machine that raped and massacred its way across Asia and its time that the Japanese stopped feeling sorry for themselves and playing the victim card and come to terms with the actions of their countymen.

  • 0

    Hikozaemon

    Im fine with the US term. I guess the US will need to apologize for its own use of Japanese comfort women during the occupation.

    Terminology also doesn't change the fact that ROK and Japan settled all individual and state to state legal claims as part of Japan's huge payout to Korea in 1965, which Japan asked the Korean government to use for settling individual claims.

    I hope these enforced sex slaves get what is owed them b the South Korean government that is withholding their reparations.

  • 0

    Cletus

    timtak

    Please provide some evidence that the overwhelming majority of foreign women were forced into it. As far as I am aware, there is little evidence to support this assertion, though I firmly believe that some were forced.

    You seem to be missing the point here. Whether it was all, the majority, some or a few it is irrelevant. The fact is that the japanese military forced women into prostitution for the sake of pleasing their soldiers. It doesnt matter how many they forced, it matters that they did force them. And the fact that the Japanese refuse to admit this is disgusting, the fact that the Japanese downplay this is disgusting. Every year we sit through the A Bomb remembrances and listen to how poor Japan suffered at the hands of the evil allies. Yet when a topic about Japanese wrongdoing comes up there is outrage here that it is dared to be brought up. We are subjected to the Japanese commemorations of the A Bombs but where is the story remembering the comfort women, the massacres, the disgusting acts carried out in the name of the emperor. We seem to get one side of the story here and if anyone dare mention the other side they are shouted down much like you are doing here.

  • 0

    Ben Jack

    I guess the US will need to apologize for its own use of Japanese comfort women during the occupation.

    You seemed to have overlooked an ever important word in this discussion. The word is 'forced'.

    I hope these enforced sex slaves get what is owed them b the South Korean government that is withholding their reparations.

    While I would like to share your hope. It think that that is highly unlikely. Although Japan does not have a legal obigation to pay any more reparations. Just think what a world of difference it would make if the Japanese government said to these people, 'We know you never received your justly deserved reparations from your own government. Because of this, we have decided to pay you directly. We know this can and should never erase what happened. However, we hope this will serve as a sign of our humblest apologies.'

  • -6

    timtak

    173 comfort women came forward in the Philippines, 56 ex-comfort women in Taiwan, and "more than 100" (pro reparations source) in Korea. What proportion of these women were slaves, and these represent what proportion of the total I am not sure.

    There is documentation of people responding to the advertisements, which were in my view clear, Japanese prostitues taking part, of women that people being sent back when it was found that they had been duped regarding the nature of their work, and of prosecution of recruiters that duped women.

    Even if there were only one woman, being raped by 20 to 40 soldiers a day is a situation too unpleasant to imagine. I do not doubt that there were many women forced into sexual slavery in the comfort women system. I do not doubt that there are many women bonded into sexual slavery in the sex industry around the world today.

    However, to argue that the Japanese goverment systematically and deliberately forced 200,000 women into sexual slavery would be to claim that the Japanese government at least were abhorrent, and the Japanese people that tacitly condoned such actions were also..... morally challenged. I do not believe that to be the case based upon the testimony and documentation that I have seen.

    And yet, people like Clinton and AFP state it as if it is fact.

    • Moderator

      Please stop posting inflammatory remarks.

  • 0

    BertieWooster

    I wonder what these ladies would like to be known as.

    Has Clinton or anyone else ever asked them?

  • -2

    Discomfort

    There is documentation of people responding to the advertisements, which were in my view clear,

    So they detailed how many soldiers per day, the inability to refuse the sex, the lack of vacations, the payments in valuless scrip that would never be exchanged for yen?

    of women that people being sent back when it was found that they had been duped regarding the nature of their work

    Yes. And the problem is that some people try to make us believe that since some were sent back, then all who wanted to go back were sent back which is just a very stupid way of thinking, if they actually believe that junk themselves.

    However, to argue that the Japanese goverment systematically and deliberately

    Well, the government certainly did know that the military was invading China, Korea, the Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, etc, and knew it was attacking Pearl Harbor and Darwin. They knew that people were dying like flies! So I don't understand what is so hard for you accept about knowing that women were being systematically raped. And I am not saying they all did, but surely the military did, and that is enough to blame the government, as they are responsible for the military.

    and the Japanese people that tacitly condoned such actions

    Oh come on! There was no free press! Most people back home had no idea, and the soldiers had their minds twisted and tweaked to kill and otherwise be violent like all soldiers do. Rape is always a part of war. It used to even be traditional! Once you have trained soldiers to mercilessly kill people they never even met, getting them to rape is not such a leap. Its harder to get them not to rape actually.

  • 2

    hoserfella

    Timtak - yes, the jgov was abhorrent during the war years in particular. Do you honestly believe that the cowed populace at the time knew about it, condoned it, or that the militarist government would even care about their opinion?? You claim to have read several books on war time Japan, yet are not familiar with the basics.

  • 1

    codomo

    its only farcical. these three countries are trying to make SK ppl eyes avert from SKs domestic unstability, especially Lee Myung-bak bro who has been arrested due to illegal contribution. im sure this will be settled in doubletalk.

  • 0

    Mike DeJong

    Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it...

  • 0

    nandakandamanda

    Well, one thing she needs to take into account is that the word carries its full suggestive weight in the Kanji words (従軍)慰安婦I-an-fu which work throughout Korean, Chinese and Japanese. Translated into English as 'comfort women' ('recreational women') it should always carry these inverted commas to denote 'so-called', implying the cynicism which rightly resides within this expression. "Enforced sex slaves" has a good strong ring to it, and it is more easily understood to younger Western generations, but is she advocating changing the original phrase commonly understood throughout Asia too? (Remember the English phrase is merely a translation.)

    It will be interesting to see what the Chinese and Japanese translations of her words are, and whether they will ever replace the existing phrase "I-an-fu". (Just checked People's Daily and China Daily in Chinese but could find no mention yet of the above report on Hillary.)

  • -2

    Cletus

    timtak

    However, to argue that the Japanese goverment systematically and deliberately forced 200,000 women into sexual slavery would be to claim that the Japanese government at least were abhorrent, and the Japanese people that tacitly condoned such actions were also..... morally challenged. I do not believe that to be the case based upon the testimony and documentation that I have seen.

    As already mentioned regardless of whether it was 200,000 or 200 it is a disgusting fact and a blight on Japan that this occurred. And people who defend the J government by saying that it was rogue elements of the military are way off base. The military represents the government and if the military was responsible for this then the ultimate blame rests with the government of Japan as the military is merely an arm of that government. Whether all 200,000 where forced, tricked, or willingly took part l guess we will never know. It may be a case like what happened to the Dutch women in the DEI. The Japanese were going to take women at random to serve as sex slaves but some old women and prostitutes volunteered to go to save to other girls. Does this mean it is not such a bad thing? No it doesnt. Does it lessen what the Japanese did? No it doesnt.

    Regardless of the numbers Japan needs to stop downplaying this (and other atrocities it committed) and realise that it may want to forget and pretend it didnt happen but the world wont and shouldnt let it.

    And yet, people like Clinton and AFP state it as if it is fact.

  • 1

    nandakandamanda

    Well, on one J site (Asahi) I found a report that a Korean newspaper claims that someone overheard Hillary saying that they should not be referred to as 'comfort women' but as 強制された性奴隷... the Japanese translation, ie "Kyousei sareta Sei Dorei". Too long. I bet the last three Kanji "sei-do-rei" will have a better chance of going down in history, just as one of the posters above suggested that in English 'enforced' is redundant.

  • -1

    billyshears

    Timtak - the only textbooks which refute this matter are, (drumroll) Japanese textbooks

    Well, according to the Japanese government (referring to the Comfort Women situation):

    1. This issue is not neglected in the public school education of Japan .

    1) Among all high school textbooks, 16 out of 18 among them refer to the issue.

    2) All of the 18 high school textbooks describe the suffering that the people in neighboring countries had to bear before and during World War II and Japan ’s responsibility in these matters.

    link for the full article:

    http://www.us.emb-japan.go.jp/english/html/cw1.htm

  • 0

    billyshears

    I just want to know... WHY Japan has so much trouble accepting their past, or even entertaining the idea that they may have done bad things. Is it their ego? Are they just selfish and self-centered? They have no empathy for others? They can't imagine others' suffering and plight? They can't put themselves in others' shoes? Too egocentric? Too concerned about their pride and saving face? Why??

    1. The Japanese Government has acknowledged the Comfort Women issue and extended official apologies on many important occasions.

    1) The Chief Cabinet Secretary’s Statement in 1993 “Undeniably, this was an act, with the involvement of the military authorities of the day, that severely injured the honor and dignity of many women. The Government of Japan would like to take this opportunity once again to extend its sincere apologies and remorse to all those, irrespective of place of origin, who suffered immeasurable pain and incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.”

    2) Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama’s Statement in 1994 “On the issue of wartime “comfort women”, which seriously stained the honor and dignity of many women, I would like to take this opportunity once again to express my profound and sincere remorse and apologies”

    3) Letters from Prime Ministers to Each Former Comfort Woman , which extended Japan’s apology and remorse: “The issue of comfort women, with the involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of a large number of women.”

    “As Prime Minister of Japan , I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who endured immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.”

    “ We must not evade the weight of the past, nor should we evade our responsibilities for the future."

    “I believe that our country, painfully aware of its moral responsibilities, with feelings of apology and remorse, should face up squarely to its past history and accurately convey it to future generations”.

  • 0

    sourpuss

    What a stupid term!

    I wonder of there is such a thing as a "volunteer slave." The term should be "sex slave." Adding "enforced" is unnecessary. Am I a "paid salaried worker?" The use and abuse of the English language under the name of political correctness is shameful. Clinton should know better. She did go to Yale, didn't she?

    Hundreds of thousands of Asian women, including Koreans, who were forcibly drafted for sex slavery

    Wow! And one would have expected them to volunteer to be sex slaves. How surprising! Does the writer mean that the women were enslaved for the purposes of sex, perhaps?

  • -9

    JapanGal

    The JP PM have got to quit apologizing. It is redculous. Plus, when there is war, there is rape. Name me one country that has been in war and never ever raped the women, boys, and men of the side losing. Answere ? None

  • -5

    BertieWooster

    How about "unpaid sex worker?"

    But I stick to my original idea.

    Instead of assuming that she knows, I think Hilary Clinton should speak to some of these ladies and find out what they would like to be known as.

  • 1

    Cletus

    JapanGal

    The JP PM have got to quit apologizing. It is redculous.

    Agreed, they may as well stop apologizing because its plain and clear that its a hollow apology that means nothing. Actions speak much louder than words and the actions coming out of this country are reflecting quite the opposite

    Plus, when there is war, there is rape. Name me one country that has been in war and never ever raped the women, boys, and men of the side losing. Answere ? None

    Yes it does happen, and most times and in most civilised countries it is recognised, apologised for, compensated for and actually discussed. Not here though, you issue a poor apology then get upset if its mentioned again. If your so embarrassed about your actions dont commit them in the first place.

  • -3

    just-a-bigguy

    I dont think the Japanese rightist organisations has plan to boardcast their slogans or yelling outside the US embassy, you know the Japanese morale standard has difference depends on who speaks to them!

  • 2

    smithinjapan

    JapanGal: "The JP PM have got to quit apologizing. It is redculous."

    I'm sure ONE simple but honest and genuine apology would go a long way to healing the damage done to these sex-slaves and others. When you have politicians (including PM Abe) suggesting they did not exist or that troops were no involved, etc. it belittles any previous hollow and vapid apologies.

  • -2

    illsayit

    Well clearing up that there was both would be more honest. And rape is also forced, or isnt that just understood. I think some distinction needs to be made, as it deals with certain morales. Which are different for everybody. Like Australia just legalized prostition in one of it's states, and isn't there some other places that it is legal-whatever jargon you use, it isnt criminal. I for one, dont agree with prostitution, but Im sure there are some women whose morales are different to mine. Same as it probably differs amongst peoples about women even going to work in war. I think Clinton is out of line stirring this up, and I also dont think that all Americans agree with her. Same as some peoples may think the apology already given from Japan to Korea is acceptable and others would disagree. There is no clear line, and it should be understood as that. Why is it necessary to say all one or the other? Surely most people can understand that some women had a brutal time of it and some women just made bad choices? Why does Clinto feel the need to define it to a black and white, why even worry about the wording-we all understood it didnt we?

  • 0

    YongYang

    The Japanese foreign ministry seeks clarification? What part of 'enforced sex slaves' do they not understand?

  • -3

    CrazyJoe

    You never hear China complaining about the comfort women issue do you? The answer is too obvious.

  • -11

    timtak

    So they detailed how many soldiers per day, the inability to refuse the sex, the lack of vacations, the payments in valuless scrip that would never be exchanged for yen?

    Yes, as far as I know the number of soldiers per day, the inability to refuse sex, the lack of vacations (there were some I believe, but cancelled often), the payments in what in many, or perhaps most, cases turned out to be a valueless script is well documented. The circumstances of the comfort women's environment and their lack of remuneration is clearly horrible, tragic, horrible, and more horror.

    Is the question as to whether the comfort woman system was overtly, one of slavery for the majority, or one of slavery for the exception, relevant? If there were a significant proportion of comfort women who were forced (deceived, coerced) then it can be argued that the system was itself abhorrent from the get go.

    The Japanese were fighting a losing war. If they made an attempt, or gestures to attempt, to provide prostitutes, knowing full well that many of these "prostitutes" would be slaves, may in itself be utterly abhorrent and deplorable.

    Even if it were the case that their intention was to create a prostitution system, then even so under the circumstances they should not have made that attempt?

    Is the distinction between a (purported) failed attempt at prostitution (that resulted in slavery) i.e. a system that attempted prostitution but resulted in, and could have been predicted to result in slavery, VS a system that was consciously, and deliberately to sexually enslave women, relevant?

    I could argue either way. I appreciate either point of view. But I think that the distinction is very significant.

    It seems to me that the Japanese war effort, as they starved themselves also to death, as they sent their children into suicide planes, as they charged at machine guns (all arguably abhorrent acts) were aiming for the win, and for the right thing to do. "Right," as in something that we, you and i would do. It is my impression that they thought about what they were doing and they were trying to do the things that you and I would do.

    From reading some of the posts above however it would seem that the Japanese were just plain evil. And unless they say that they were evil, some or many people, including those reading, are not going to be satisfied. For my own part, I don't believe they were evil.

  • 3

    nandakandamanda

    A former soldier in the Japanese Imperial Army described to me in detail how his local 'comfort station' in Manchuria worked, and what the women had to put up with. Every couple of days they were given a day of rest, spent in the local hospital.

  • 4

    Fadamor

    Keep out of stuff that doesn't concern you Clinton.

    She was correcting the usage by one of her subordinates, so it most certainly DID concern her. The Secretary of State sets the tone for not only his/her Department, but the tone that is presented to all other nations. Having underlings using a different term for this aspect of Japanese history is counterproductive.

  • -2

    globalwatcher

    Gemba said that Japan would seek clarification of Clinton’s remarks from the U.S. State Department

    Yes, they should. Clinton did a big boo-boo here.

  • 0

    kodaiflow

    This is like being friends with a couple who are having a fight. Using the softened wording would be a great offense to a Korean diplomat, so she had to correct him. The Korean newspaper published it because it would stick in the craw of the Japanese media. The Japanese diplomat has to say something to the right wing reporter when it gets thrown at him.

  • -2

    mrmalice

    isn't it amazing, how people who are overpaid and actually do very little but talk and stick their noses and go ask for money for their own wars all around the world still find time to point fingers at stuff that happened over 60 years ago while half the world is burning and the other half is nearly starving? I think that's absolutely amazing.

  • 0

    Andreas Zachcial

    Not only asian women were forced into prostitution. Dutch and British women were also forced into it. This is a fact not known to most japanese. So many japanese were suprised when during the 2010 WC in South Africa Dutch Supporters jeered when they played the japanese national anthem!!

  • 1

    gelendestrasse

    I think the change in terminology is right way to go. Now, how can this be used to end the practice in the here and now?

  • -1

    OssanAmerica

    While the the term "Comfort Women" is an obvious euphemism to cover a prostitution program, forced to a great extent by not just the Imperial Japanese miitary but their agents, Korean collaborators and middlemen and Korean parents who "sold" their daughters, a custom not unusual among the poor in then East Asia (in Japan as well!), is the term "slave" correct as well when the program included pay to these women?

    "According to the official reports of the U.S. Army’s Psychological Warfare Team from 1944,the monthly take of the women was approximately 1,500 yen, and they kept between 40 to 50 percent of this. In other words, their “take home” income was an extremely high wage of 750 yen per month. Here is one illustration to support this. A Korean comfort woman named Moon Ok-ju, who worked in Burma during the period between June of 1943 and September of 1945, recorded total savings of 26,145 yen in deposit at the military post office. (Note: the Japanese Post Office conducts banking functions.) In evidence of this, she went to the Shimonoseki Post Office to withdraw the funds in 1992, and her original ledger was discovered and confirmed. As she had lost her account book, she was unable to withdraw the money. At any rate, over a period of two years and three months, she had accumulated an incredible savings of 26,000 yen -- her monthly take-home would have been nearly 1,000 yen. Incidentally, the monthly pay of a Japanese Army private at the time was 7 yen 50 sen; a sergeant made 30 yen. These women were making per month between 100 to 250 times what soldiers were."

  • -2

    Crystalyle

    What I find most amazing is the pure hatred and racism displayed NOT only by the Japanese soldiers who brutally and through force took advantage of these women but more so that Japanese women on this website say nothing to support other women who have been raped and abused.

    It's clear to me that Japanese women looked down on Korean and Phillipino women so much that they turned a blind eye to their sons and husbands infidelity. WWII Japanese people really considered themselves as the Divine race on this Earth, all others were beneath them. This mindset and mentality that still lingers today is the very reason why people know that the stories are true. They raped and abused those women..

    I admire Clinton for her straight forward honesty. Call it like it is. I'm so glad she put aside her differences and works with Obama. The Clintons are true American patriots and honest Ambassadors.

  • 0

    hoserfella

    OssanAmerica - If any believes that manufactured garbage, I have some cheap land for them to buy in Jersey.

  • 1

    hoserfella

    I think the change in terminology is right way to go. Now, how can this be used to end the practice in the here and now?

    gelendestrasse - Human trafficing today and the Japan wartime sex slave issue are two seperate issues. Allowing Japan to continue calling them "comfort women" excuses them of the crime.

    Human trafficing today is called just that.

  • 2

    2020hindsights

    timtak

    For my own part, I don't believe they were evil.

    Hmm, the use of the loaded word 'evil'. I would ask one of the 'enforced sex slaves'. I think their opinion would veer towards 'evil'.

  • -3

    nigelboy

    Kisaeng--->Comfort women during WWII---->Comfort women recruitment by Seoul official during Korean war for U.N. forces--->post war Kisaeng for tourists--->estimated 100,000 Korean prosititues outside Korea.

    Same ol same ol. Majority willing individuals to the oldest profession, some were sold by their familiy members for advance payment, and very few who were coerced.

    Former Prime Minister Murayama dedicated his later years to find evidence to support that IJA was complicit with the coersion of these women but all he could find was more evidence of the first two.

    At any rate, over a period of two years and three months, she had accumulated an incredible savings of 26,000 yen

    Ossan.

    Interestingly, the figure is estimated approximately 60 million yen today (USD over 700K).

  • -1

    kazetsukai

    Now that everyone had a chance to express their views on the "words" used, the responsibility and liability aspects and the moral ethical views relating to same, how about looking at the news article and "diagnose" the timing of what was said and by whom, for what reason, for what purpose and to get what results?

    To do that you must look at the whole picture. The context, the situation, the circumstance and the environment in which this was uttered. Have you really looked at that?

    And to answer one of your questions, it is not to point a finger at anyone. It is to give "perspective" on how to approach the news article. it is also to give some "depth" to your knowledge on the people involved.

    For now who did what and when for whatever reason does not matter. See what this small incident has affected or influenced the international and national climate here in Japan as well as in USA and Korea.

  • -1

    timtak

    I thanked 2020hindsights for the book selections but I admit that thanks may not be relevant and perhaps my post was rejected for that reason. I have read books by three of the four authors 2020hindsights kindly recommends and I intend to read the fourth by Soh. To make this post relevant, please forgive me for introducing a "revisionist' (i.e. sex-slavery-denying) book by a professor of Area Studies and specialist in Japan Korea relations, Prof Nishioka, free in pdf below http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL021/39S4.pdf It is polemical -- many will say I have no doubt, "propaganda"-- but I would say of general interest and in intention honest. It is in many ways damning of Japan too. As this work points out on page, 33 for instance, and as I firmly believe, many Korean males were forced to work as what one might term 'miner-slaves' - the Japanese term is "mobilized."

  • -1

    OssanAmerica

    hoserfellaJul. 12, 2012 - 09:17AM JST OssanAmerica - If any believes that manufactured garbage, I have some cheap land for them to buy in Jersey

    If you can give me one reason why the United States Army would "manufacture" any of this at a time when they were tasked to accumulatye evidence to prosecute the Japanese military at the Tokyo War Crimes trials, please let us know.

  • -2

    OssanAmerica

    hoserfellaJul. 12, 2012 - 09:32AM JST gelendestrasse - Human trafficing today and the Japan wartime sex slave issue are two seperate issues. Allowing >Japan to continue calling them "comfort women" excuses them of the crime.

    "Comfort Women" was simply the name of the program. That's all. Shall we stop calling survoirs "former Comfort Women" and start calling them accurately "Former military prostitutes"? Callng them "sex slaves" when they obviously weren't "slaves" is just as extreme and misleading as calling them "comfort women".

  • 0

    nigelboy

    If you can give me one reason why the United States Army would "manufacture" any of this at a time when they were tasked to accumulatye evidence to prosecute the Japanese military at the Tokyo War Crimes trials, please let us know.

    Ouch.

    Game, set, Match.

  • -3

    Cletus

    OssanAmerica

    If you can give me one reason why the United States Army would "manufacture" any of this at a time when they were tasked to accumulatye evidence to prosecute the Japanese military at the Tokyo War Crimes trials, please let us know.

    Really! I cant believe you actually asked this. Why would the US manufacture this, well lets see could it be for a similar reason to why they declined to try the emperor (despite its allies calling for his trial), could it be for the same reason they declined to try any of the members of unit 731 for war crimes, could it be for the same reasons that the US only elected to try 25 out of the hundreds of charged class A war criminals. Or could it be because of the reason that the US stopped the war trials before their completion. All this due to the US having an agenda, so honestly l take the US report with a grain of salt.

    Oh and if it is genuine it could be because nearly every file and every person connected with anything remotely looking like a war crime was destroyed, hidden or went into hiding in the closing month of the war.

    • Moderator

      All readers back on topic please.

  • 0

    JohhnyGlitterball

    30% survival rate is not what would happen to a paid prostitue.

    Of course they were sex slaves. One definition of that is they could not walk away from the places. These days trafficked women are also known as sex slaves, well in the UK press they are.

    It seems a lot of the negative reaction to what Clinton said is from thsoe who despise Korea, not because they wnt to see the truth.

  • -3

    Cletus

    OssanAmerica

    "Comfort Women" was simply the name of the program. That's all. Shall we stop calling survoirs "former Comfort Women" and start calling them accurately "Former military prostitutes"?

    And what of the women that where forced to take part in this "program" as there is ample evidence that there was forced participants shall we call them sex slaves or maybe "women forced by the Japanese to serve as sex slave" that would be more accurate wouldnt you agree. While the numbers may be disputed the fact of the matter is women (of many nationalities) where FORCED to work as sex slaves for the Japanese military. Numbers are irrelevant the sick fact is the Japanese did this on some level.

    Callng them "sex slaves" when they obviously weren't "slaves" is just as extreme and misleading as calling them "comfort women".

    But some where so the name is extremely apt.

  • -2

    nigelboy

    Cletus

    The U.S. report on comfort women was dated August 10, 1944 where at that time, U.S. intention was to go after everybody including the Emperor. During the occupation, U.S. arrested over 100 individuals(pretty much every cabinet member, authors, entrepenuers) for Class A crimes for they had absolutely no knowledge of who was actually involved in the efforts of the Pacific war.

    As for the 731, all the documents are declassified and was reviewed. Guess what they came up with?

    • Moderator

      Readers, Unit 731 is not relevant to this discussion.

  • -2

    nigelboy

    And what of the women that where forced to take part in this "program" as there is ample evidence that there was forced participants shall we call them sex slaves or maybe "women forced by the Japanese to serve as sex slave" that would be more accurate wouldnt you agree. While the numbers may be disputed the fact of the matter is women (of many nationalities) where FORCED to work as sex slaves for the Japanese military.

    Forced by whom?

  • 1

    hoserfella

    OssanAmerica - You provided one dubious example from a supposed report (with no citation) and thats your proof that all these women were volunteers? Laughable.

    nigleboy -

    Game, set, Match.

    Hoserfella still holds serve, sonny.

  • 1

    hoserfella

    Forced by whom?

    nigleboy - OUCH! oh dear, oh dear. Forced by either martians or the Japanese Imperial Army. Ill give you 2 guesses but the fist one doesn't count.

  • 3

    JohhnyGlitterball

    @hoserfella

    I think the two posters you are referring to must have mental problems. As you say they select one dubious 'fact' and refuse to take in anything that is against their beliefs.

  • 1

    Cletus

    nigelboy

    Forced by whom?

    Well Nigelboy that would be the IJA and IJN. It is well documented that women throughout the Japan zone of conquest where forced to work as sex slaves including captured Europeans.

    The interesting thing about this whole article is the Japanese is upset at Clinto using the term sex slave yet the EU has been using that terminology to describe Japans actions since 2007. I guess it just hurts more when your nearest and dearest ally calls it as it is. This is what the EU says about Japans comfort women program....

    The resolution states that the government of Japan, during its colonial and wartime occupation of Asia and the Pacific Islands from the 1930s until the end of World War II, officially commissioned the acquisition of young women, who became known to the world as ianfu or ‘comfort women’, for the sole purpose of sexual servitude to its Imperial Armed Forces. The system "included gang rape, forced abortions, humiliation, and sexual violence resulting in mutilation, death or eventual suicide, in one of the largest cases of human trafficking in the 20th century".

    So please deny all you like. Women where forced to serve as sex slaves to the Japanese military. And even those that where not forced surely did not sign up for the treatment that they received at the hands of the military of Japan

  • -1

    nigelboy

    nigleboy - OUCH! oh dear, oh dear. Forced by either martians or the Japanese Imperial Army. Ill give you 2 guesses but the fist one doesn't count.

    Wrong choices horserfella. It appears you aren't really familiar with the issue.

    Two guesses are as follows(if they were forced)

    1. Parents (monetary reasons)
    2. Private recruiters using false pretenses.

    Sounds familiar doesn't it? It's EXACTLY what's going on today.

  • 1

    hoserfella

    OssanAmerica - wow, you almost got me there it seems, but then I did a quick Google search of your supposed report. Guess what tiny little PDF file came I came up with? A pathetic opinion piece written by one Ogata Yoshiaki, a revisionist Japanese author. Is that the best you can come up with?

    Nigleboy - ouch. thats gotta hurt.

  • 1

    Cletus

    nigelboy

    The U.S. report on comfort women was dated August 10, 1944 where at that time, U.S. intention was to go after everybody including the Emperor. During the occupation, U.S. arrested over 100 individuals(pretty much every cabinet member, authors, entrepenuers) for Class A crimes for they had absolutely no knowledge of who was actually involved in the efforts of the Pacific war.

    Funny comment there Nigelboy, yes they rounded up a couple of hundred people and despite their allies (Australia, NZ, UK) calling for convictions the US declined on many as they where either to valuable (the emperor) or they served other uses. This is why throughout the Pacific areas not under US control saw many more trials. So as l said earlier l take your US reports with a grain of salt as they where more interested in the post war and ignored many crimes for other benefits

  • 1

    hoserfella

    Ah yes, Nigleboy. The IJA had absolutely nothing to do with it and those heartless Koreans, etc. willingly sold their daughters off to the hated Japanese. Oh dear...

  • -1

    nigelboy

    Well Nigelboy that would be the IJA and IJN. It is well documented that women throughout the Japan zone of conquest where forced to work as sex slaves including captured Europeans.

    It's not "documented" that well at all Cletus. You could cite, for instance, the Dutch women case but those individuals were reprimanded by Japanese (which basically proves that as a policy, Japanese top did not approve of this misconduct) for their conduct and were subdsequently punished by the IMTFE.

    So please deny all you like. Women where forced to serve as sex slaves to the Japanese military.

    Is this all you have Cletus? A resolution submitted by Comfort Women Inc. with all info furnished by them?

  • -1

    nigelboy

    Funny comment there Nigelboy, yes they rounded up a couple of hundred people and despite their allies (Australia, NZ, UK) calling for convictions the US declined on many as they where either to valuable (the emperor) or they served other uses. This is why throughout the Pacific areas not under US control saw many more trials. So as l said earlier l take your US reports with a grain of salt as they where more interested in the post war and ignored many crimes for other benefits

    Sigh. The reason why U.S. decided not to prosecute the emperor was because it would result in complete chaos in regards to civilian control. This is what they found out AFTER the war and DURING the occupation. The report was submitted before this was even an issue.

    They came up with not one single prosecution of a person involved despite the sheer amount of evidence showing war crimes. And why did they come up with that outcome? Because while disgusting vile and illegal the research was more valuable to the US and prosecutions would have affected that.

    Fail. As dissapoint as it may be for you and the historians that reviewed this hundred of thousands of declassified documents, there was nothing. Sorry.

  • -1

    nigelboy

    Ah yes, Nigleboy. The IJA had absolutely nothing to do with it and those heartless Koreans, etc. willingly sold their daughters off to the hated Japanese. Oh dear...

    Hated? Again, care to explain the large amount of Koreans that volunteered for the IJA BEFORE the conscription?

  • -1

    Cletus

    nigelboy

    It's not "documented" that well at all Cletus.

    Well if you call several books and articles not that well documented then yeah l guess your right. LOL

    You could cite, for instance, the Dutch women case but those individuals were reprimanded by Japanese (which basically proves that as a policy, Japanese top did not approve of this misconduct) for their conduct and were subdsequently punished by the IMTFE.

    Im sorry, they where Japanese military that did this. And the women where subjected to months of rape by Japanese soldiers. The women where selected by military personal and taken from their prison camps to work in brothels with warnings that they and their families would be killed if they complained or told anyone of what had happened. We are talking girls as young as 17yo here. Now that is documented and that is sick. And yes some of those responsible where caught after the war and rightfully punished.

    Is this all you have Cletus? A resolution submitted by Comfort Women Inc. with all info furnished by them?

    If you call the EU human rights committee Comfort Women Inc. then that is one source.

    But Nigelboy l have to say your constant denial of what is widely accepted fact outside of this insular nation is disturbing. While the numbers are in dispute your defence of rapists and murderers is interesting. See regardless of whether there was 200,000 or 200 the Japanese did these things and there is evidence to show that the only thing in dispute is the actual numbers. But you seem to take the opinion that it didnt happen. And you even ridicule the women involved and that speaks volumes for the type of person l am discussing this with, and l find it repulsive so l will not be discussing it with you any further.

  • -1

    Cletus

    nigelboy

    Fail. As dissapoint as it may be for you and the historians that reviewed this hundred of thousands of declassified documents, there was nothing. Sorry.

    LOL, you are kidding. The fact that most of the incriminating evidence was destroyed prior to the occupation then of course the declassified reports dont say much. What is sad is you actually deny this but then again you do seem to buy the US story hook line and sinker. Its interesting you deny any wrongdoing on the part of these units yet, of course the US denied they had done wrong even when the proof of them experimenting on US prisoners came to light. They did so because the information they gained was more valuable and that would have been lost if the activities came to light. Heck the US even let one of the main doctors continue his experiments into the 50's his work was that valuable.

  • -1

    nigelboy

    How exactly do you know what l have or havent read, can you see my book collection from where you sit? Do you know me? Thought not, but this does highlight one thing.... You dont have a single solitary clue about me or what l know and dont know and you arrogance is astounding.

    Cletus

    You offered nothing except repeating what the Comfort Women Inc. is echoeing. Nothing more.

    Interestingly, since you made an accusation that the U.S. report was somehow fabricated to save the Japanese, care to explain why there are so few ( I mean almost neglible) comfort women cases prosecuted by the other Allied members where they had their own military tribunals(where they assigned their own judge/prosecution) throughout Asia? Care to explain why when Korea and Japan were negotiationg a normalization agreement where Korea was trying to milk Japan for every Yen for 20 years and not ONCE did the Korean counterparts mention the issue of Korean comfort women? This is a great mystery to me.

  • -2

    nigelboy

    LOL, you are kidding. The fact that most of the incriminating evidence was destroyed prior to the occupation then of course the declassified reports dont say much. What is sad is you actually deny this but then again you do seem to buy the US story hook line and sinker. Its interesting you deny any wrongdoing on the part of these units yet, of course the US denied they had done wrong even when the proof of them experimenting on US prisoners came to light. They did so because the information they gained was more valuable and that would have been lost if the activities came to light. Heck the US even let one of the main doctors continue his experiments into the 50's his work was that valuable.

    Sigh.

    My dog ate my homework sounds more plausible than your reason above. Seriously. You're telling me that the Japanese government picked apart what was incriminating going through hundred of thousands if not close to million of pages as opposed to destroying EVERYTHING???? PLEEEZ

    • Moderator

      Readers, please stop bickering and going around in circles.

  • -1

    hoserfella

    Care to explain why when Korea and Japan were negotiationg a normalization agreement where Korea was trying to milk Japan for every Yen for 20 years and not ONCE did the Korean counterparts mention the issue of Korean comfort women? This is a great mystery to me.

    sure, Nige;

    For decades, South Korean activists have sought to hold their government accountable for collusion with the Japanese government in suppressing the lived histories of Koreans victimized by the horrors of Japan's brutal colonization (1905-1945) such as the former comfort women, forced laborers, and draftees sent off to die for Japan's rapacious expansionism and wars. Collectively, they target the 1965 Treaty of Basic Relations between Japan and the Republic of Korea as the root of the problems that persist. At its signing, the agreement sold away Korean individuals' right to seek redress from Japan in exchange for Japanese "economic aid," and not even an official apology. Under the Park Chung-hee dictatorship, victims were not even permitted to make their stories publicly known.

    thats from the reputable and neutral Asia-Pacific journal. Next?

  • -1

    nigelboy

    thats from the reputable and neutral Asia-Pacific journal. Next?

    Sorry hoserfella. Fail.

    During the 20 year negotiation period, the Korean counterparts did push the issue of unpaid laborers and compensation for the former soldiers by giving them the number and estimated monetary figures. Japan offered to pay these people individually but it was Korea that REFUSED to accept such method instead opting for lump sum money paid directly to the Korean government where they stated that they THEMSELVES would take care of them. This is well documented for it made big news in Korea when this was finally disclosed to the Korean nationals in 2006.

    However, during the 20 year negotiation period where there were committees established for different matters and literally hundred of thousands of pages of minutes to the meeting, the Korean counterparts NEVER ONCE mentioned the issue of comfort women.

    Next.

  • 0

    hoserfella

    Nigleboy - Not that it needed further explaining, but that was also a good explanation of the supposed Korean "volunteers" before consciption.

    Funny, how a bayonet pressed to a rib cage helps one write their name down, eh?

  • 0

    hoserfella

    Oh dear, someone isn't paying attention. My previous post explained exactly WHY the comfort women issue didn't come up. Read it again, please.

    As the kids say these days; EPIC FAIL!

  • -3

    nigelboy

    Funny, how a bayonet pressed to a rib cage helps one write their name down, eh?

    Wouldn't it be just easier to just implemented a mandatory draft?

  • 1

    Cletus

    Nigelboy,

    Nope a bayonet is a much more effective recruiting tool

  • -2

    nigelboy

    Oh dear, someone isn't paying attention. My previous post explained exactly WHY the comfort women issue didn't come up. Read it again, please.

    uhhhm. They did. What part of "unpaid wages" or "compensation for soldiers" did you not understand? I'm quite positive that they spoke out or otherwise, Korea counterparts couldn't come up with the figure.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    Nope a bayonet is a much more effective recruiting tool

    Doesn't make sense to me Cletus. I can surely understand a mandatory draft order and if one doesn't comply, use a little force (like they did to the Japanese citizens) but why in the world would you use force when mandatory draft order wasn't issued to the Koreans in the peninsula up until Sept of 1944?

  • 3

    2020hindsights

    timtam

    Thanks for the link. Unfortunately I get a object not found error. I checked the web site and found other books like "The Nanking Hoax: A Historian Analyzes the Events of 1937". So my guess is that it's not exactly unbiased.

  • 1

    hoserfella

    Ummmm, nigelboy the issue is comfort women not soldiers

  • -5

    nigelboy

    Ummmm, nigelboy the issue is comfort women not soldiers

    I know.

    And laborers who were unpaid and numerous individuals who had some assets in Japan. They all made their claims to the Korean government who in turn came up with a cumulative figure during negotiations with Japan. Where are the comfort women?

  • -4

    Feihu

    y3chome sez

    "She may be right but..... why come over to stir things up?"

    She does that crap where ever she goes. Between Ms. Clinton and Ms Rice the idea of diplomacy in the Dtate Dept went right in the tolet and stayed there.

  • 3

    hoserfella

    Where are the comfort women?

    Nigelboy for the 3rd and last time, I direct to my post Today, July 12th, 12:46PM JST. That should answer your qustion. You're welcome.

    Man, you are really grabbing at straws now. Pretending to not see slam-dunk de-bunking of ones argument is not becoming.

  • -3

    Thomas Anderson

    Good God, people are still in denial... Japan should do what the Germans did and make war atrocities denials a criminal offense.

  • -3

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy, there is nobody outside of the small right-wingers' circle in Japan who would agree with your views. You. Can't. Win. What's the big deal with admitting that the Japanese imperial army had comfort women... I mean sex slaves? Surely you would like to put justice to the war criminals. Stop defending war criminals. You wouldn't defend ordinary rapists and murderers.

  • 0

    danako

    @Colleen, you may refer to Obama as a black president if you want. Fact is he is a mixed race president.

  • -2

    danako

    In addition, the Civil War was about preserving the nation, not freeing the slaves.

  • 0

    timtak

    2020hindsights Sorry about that, the link to the book, that I fear you will find very 'biased,' is http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/39_S4.pdf

  • 0

    hoserfella

    sorry timtak. More of the same Japanese national apologists who see everyone who criticizes Japan, including Japanese themselves, as "Japan-haters" (p.52) You'll have to do much better than that.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    hoserfellaJul. 12, 2012 - 11:30AM JST OssanAmerica - You provided one dubious example from a supposed report (with no citation) and thats your proof >that all these women were volunteers? Laughable.

    The US Army report is well known among people who have examined this issue. Here, read it and laugh all you like.

    http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

  • -1

    OssanAmerica

    horsefella, we all know that when faced with undeniable and iurrefutable evidence the standard approach is to not attck the context but to attack the source. Your attempt to do so falls flat on it's face because the Japanese author took everything from a US Army report, an organization which obviously has nothing to gain from falsifying or manufacturing any information that woulde benefit their enemy.

  • -2

    nigelboy

    Nigelboy for the 3rd and last time, I direct to my post Today, July 12th, 12:46PM JST. That should answer your qustion. You're welcome.

    "Under the Park Chung-hee dictatorship, victims were not even permitted to make their stories publicly known."

    It doesn't appear so, does it?

    I mean how do you explain the anti-Japan history education that started after the war without "making their stories pubicly known"?

    I mean how many excuses do you need hoserfella? Park was trying to milk as much money as possible from the Japanese government during the negotiations and what better way to accomplish that then bring forth the comfort women issue where it could of brought his nation millions of millions of dollar more? He certainly did so with laborers(both men and women) and ex-soldiers with their claims but why leave out comfort women?

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    CletusJul. 12, 2012 - 11:13AM JST "If you can give me one reason why the United States Army would "manufacture" any of this at a time when they were tasked to accumulatye evidence to prosecute the Japanese military at the Tokyo War Crimes trials, please let us know." Really! I cant believe you actually asked this. Why would the US manufacture this, well lets see could it be for a similar >reason to why they declined to try the emperor (despite its allies calling for his trial), could it be for the same reason >they declined to try any of the members of unit 731 for war crimes, could it be for the same reasons that the US only >elected to try 25 out of the hundreds of charged class A war criminals. Or could it be because of the reason that the >US stopped the war trials before their completion. All this due to the US having an agenda, so honestly l take the US >report with a grain of salt.

    Nice fantasy. This US Army report report is from 1944 not after Aug 1945. To suggest that the United States would "cover up" something being done by an enemy that they had been fighting for 3 years and desparete to end the war is utter absurdity, US actions to prevent Soviet influence after the war ended have no bearing on this report made smack in the middle of the war.

    Oh and if it is genuine it could be because nearly every file and every person connected with anything remotely >looking like a war crime was destroyed, hidden or went into hiding in the closing month of the war.

    Oh yes, the famous "all the evidence was destroyed" argument. Sure Cletus, the IJA poorly supplied and manned were fighting a desperate defense against an overwhelming onslaught of US, British and Australian forces in the Burmsa theater, but they had the time and resources to "destroy all the evidence". I suppose rhey had the time to brainwash or buy the cooperation opf all the Comfort women as well so that they wouldn't disclose that they weren't paid and were constantly raped 24/7 right? You're reaching way out there.

  • 3

    termarosa

    The US Army report is well known among people who have examined this issue. Here, read it and laugh all you like.

    http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

    FYI,

    Prisoners: 20 Korean Comfort Girls. Date of Capture: August 10, 1944. Date of Arrival: August 15, 1994 at Stockade

    From the same site

    The "comfort girls" came from lower classes in Korea. The way of life and work of them, was put on the table some years ago when feminist movements worked reported how the "Comfort Homes" and how these women were recruited. According to these feminist movements, women were virgins chosen to prevent disease from spreading to the troops with venereal diseases. They were transported to Japan under false pretenses and then raped at gunpoint and enslaved. They were forced to work daily to serve 100 men with no or very little pay. They had no freedom, worked in inappropriate places, unsanitary and medically underserved. If they tried to escape were killed. Those feminist organizations* estimate that between 75 and 95% of these women were killed during the war.*

    Recently, the Japanese government apologized to Korea for their treatment of women. Many think that these apologies were forced by international pressure and internal, rather than because the Japanese government had the conviction that all the horrors that women's organizations presented as evidence, were cerdad. However, the case of the "comfort girls" Korean is a whole social movement that seems to end, even though women survivors who require financial compensation, very few.

    The way these feminist groups described the "comfort houses" and their treatment of "comfort girls" in contrast to an interrogation made in 1945 when the first "comfort girls" were captured in Burma by U.S. troops . The sophisticated organization of the service of prostitutes was known for interrogation after the war and appears in the original articles in English and Castilian translation shown in the links at the bottom of the page.

    Geeh, no wonder no one showed up to accusing the Japanese if they ended up dead

    My dog ate my homework sounds more plausible than your reason above. Seriously. You're telling me that the Japanese government picked apart what was incriminating going through hundred of thousands if not close to million of pages as opposed to destroying EVERYTHING???? PLEEEZ

    Yes, they had plenty of times before Allied forces arrived at Home Island

    http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/AJRP2.nsf/aa9b3f3247a3c8ae4a25676300078dee/0c4316427801df904a2567b60081f99f?OpenDocument

    Accordingly to J-government no SYSTEMATICALLY abuse of Allied POW during the war, tough shit for the Japanese there plenty of Allied POW that would give a different story.

    t's not "documented" that well at all Cletus. You could cite, for instance, the Dutch women case but those individuals were reprimanded by Japanese (which basically proves that as a policy, Japanese top did not approve of this misconduct)

    uh-huh all the Dutch civilians were interned into concentration camps, 10% died. Of course the Japanese use men as slave labor and the women/teenager as sex slaves. The Japanese 'release" their sex slaves after the Dutch in the camp complained, if they didn't release them "alive", no one would "volunteer" for the next rape camp.

    Japanese rape prevention policy at is finest, rape first then hide everything under the carpet.

    J-soldier could only offering gang-rape, starvations or summary executions to everyone in Asia between 1942-45

  • 0

    Fadamor

    2020hindsights Sorry about that, the link to the book, that I fear you will find very 'biased,' is http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/39_S4.pdf

    That was an interesting read and though there are a few points in it I would take issue with, I must admit it has changed my view of this issue considerably. Many of the things I've heard previously were actually part of the "Volunteer Force" which was a labor force completely separate from the "Comfort Women". I sent an email to the State Department asking them (if they haven't already) to evaluate this book prior to making any more statements regarding the issue. While I have no plans on chasing down every footnote in the book, surely the State Department has enough people available to be able to verify their authenticity and make a decision based on their results.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    Yes, they had plenty of times before Allied forces arrived at Home Island

    Sorry. It would take years and years much like the historians that reviewed them.

    uh-huh all the Dutch civilians were interned into concentration camps, 10% died. Of course the Japanese use men as slave labor and the women/teenager as sex slaves. The Japanese 'release" their sex slaves after the Dutch in the camp complained, if they didn't release them "alive", no one would "volunteer" for the next rape camp

    Puzzling post.

    My point

    "Interestingly, since you made an accusation that the U.S. report was somehow fabricated to save the Japanese, care to explain why there are so few ( I mean almost neglible) comfort women cases prosecuted by the other Allied members where they had their own military tribunals(where they assigned their own judge/prosecution) throughout Asia? "

  • 1

    JTDanMan

    In Tokyo, Foreign Minister Koichiro Gemba said that Japan would seek clarification of Clinton’s remarks from the U.S. State Department, NTV reported.

    What part of "enforced sex slaves" do you not understand...?

  • 1

    sfjp330

    OssanAmerica Jul. 13, 2012 - 12:23AM JST Nice fantasy. This US Army report report is from 1944 not after Aug 1945. To suggest that the United States would "cover up" something being done by an enemy that they had been fighting for 3 years and desparete to end the war is utter absurdity, US actions to prevent Soviet influence after the war ended have no bearing on this report made smack in the middle of the war.

    There was no cover up? How ridiculous statement. After the WWII, the Tokyo war crimes trials did not punish any Japanese leaders for the abuse of comfort women, even though U.S. military intelligence units had gathered relevant information on it as revealed in documents kept at the National Archives in Washington. In this case, the Tokyo tribunal's lack of concern for the human rights violations of "comfort girls" reflected not only the pervasive racism of Western nations toward non-white people but also the fact that no American women were victimized. The prevailing military culture no doubt contributed. Upon defeating Japan, the Allied Forces, composed mainly of American soldiers were offered Japanese comfort women as an official policy. The policy was meant to protect the Japanese women at large from random rapes by the American soldiers and reflected the sexist assumptions that had underlain Japan's comfort system for its own troops.

  • -3

    OssanAmerica

    Yes sfjp, in 1944 there was no cover up. No Japanese leaders were charged at the Tokyo War Crimes trials for the "comfort Women" issue because there was insifficient evidence to prosecute. To claim that was because of White racism or the Tribunal's lack of concern for human rights is really absurd.

  • 0

    hoserfella

    The US Army report is well known among people who have examined this issue. Here, read it and laugh all you like.

    OssanAmerica - I took your advice and perused the link you provided. Like termarosa, this is what I found;

    The "comfort girls" came from lower classes in Korea. The way of life and work of them, was put on the table some years ago when feminist movements worked reported how the "Comfort Homes" and how these women were recruited. According to these feminist movements, women were virgins chosen to prevent disease from spreading to the troops with venereal diseases. They were transported to Japan under false pretenses and then raped at gunpoint and enslaved. They were forced to work daily to serve 100 men with no or very little pay. They had no freedom, worked in inappropriate places, unsanitary and medically underserved. If they tried to escape were killed. Those feminist organizations* estimate that between 75 and 95% of these women were killed during the war.*

    you'll have to excuse me if I didn't feel like laughing after reading your link. By the way, what was your point again?

  • 1

    sfjp330

    OssanAmerica Jul. 13, 2012 - 07:32AM JST. in 1944 there was no cover up. No Japanese leaders were charged at the Tokyo War Crimes trials for the "comfort Women" issue because there was insifficient evidence

    Even with 75 percent death of comfort women, I guess you believe in everything that Japanese Imperial Army told you because they were Koreans and Chinese. Good for you that you agree that like yourself, Japanese were victims.

  • 1

    2020hindsights

    Fadamor

    I sent an email to the State Department asking them (if they haven't already) to evaluate this book prior to making any more statements regarding the issue.

    Seriously?!?! Can't you see that the whole site is revisionist ranting about how innocent Japan is for every scandal in its past. The State Department will see right through it.

  • -2

    timtak

    Fadamor. Glad the link was of use. There are lots more in Japanese and many of the Japanese authors that take exception to the current portray of the Japanese are represented on the same site, which, may be or may not be "revisionist ranting." I think it is clear that anyone believing in the current view of the Japanese will think it revisionist ranting if they do not read it.

  • 1

    hoserfella

    timtak - I see you are cherry picking which authors you read. And no big surprise, all Japanese revisionist authors to give you the answers you want. All wrong and comforting, but wrong nonetheless. Trying to reason with people like that is the same as arguing with 9/11 and moon landing conspiracy theorists.

  • -3

    timtak

    I guess you did not read my post above where I said I had read three of the books (HIcks, Yoshimi, Tanaka) 2020hindsight recommended and intend to read Soh.

  • 1

    2020hindsights

    timtak

    Seriously, I can't believe you are basing anything on a site so obviously biased that it has amongst it's articles a treatise stating that "The US, not Japan, was the aggressor" in WWII.

  • 1

    hoserfella

    2020hindsights - Of course. When all is said and done, and all books supposedly read, the denyers will still say "well there may have been a few instances, BUT......."

    You simply can't reason with people who refuse to believe overwhelming evidence.

  • 1

    timtak

    2020, the issue of whether the US or Japan were aggressor is rather off topic but, while before I came to Japan I thought those sneaky Japanese wanted to conquer the world and attacked innocent ol' us, but alas now, I am afraid I do not see that issue as clear cut either.

    However, as I keep saying, my view of the comfort women is not clear cut either. That link admits to things that are from Western eyes, and contemporary Japanese eyes, very grim stuff. That the Japanese used the money-up-front, bonded labour form of prostitution, fairly prevalent at the time. On the wikipedia page on slavery, bonded labour is described as being the most widespread form of slavery today. This revisionist author admits that the Japanese did this. I think that that is why the Japanese are now, and I would too, do too, express remorse. I also believe that some recruitment was even worse (e.g. in the case of the poor Dutch woman), but the bonded-labour conscription used in the comfort women system, and in Yoshiwara, and in the Korean equivalent I believe, is enough to create great tragedy, draw enormous criticism, and is clearly admitted to by the 'ranting revisionist.'

  • 0

    MC68040

    The problem is a thing that the South Korea government did not inform the people of the content of the agreement. (Treaty on Basic Relations between Japan and the Republic of Korea) And, the thing that the government has embezzled the ransom.

  • 3

    adjutant

    SchopenhauerJul. 11, 2012 - 08:19AM JST

    Clinton! Don't forget that America had the legal slave system until the civil right legislation. It was not a long time ago.

    Yes, the US had slavery. And you know what it's called in America? It's called SLAVERY. The United States does not use any euphemism when referring to slavery in public discourse, history books, or anywhere else.

  • 1

    2020hindsights

    Yes sfjp, in 1944 there was no cover up. No Japanese leaders were charged at the Tokyo War Crimes trials for the "comfort Women" issue because there was insifficient evidence to prosecute.

    Well with 75% death rate and the Japanese Army systematically destroying all documents relating to sex slaves may be the reason. More evidence has since come to light.

  • 2

    hoserfella

    2020hindsights - not to mention the women not coming forward until years later, if at all, because of the inherent shame

  • 2

    hoserfella

    surviving victims, that is.

  • -5

    nigelboy

    "Overwhelming Evidence"

    -And yet no one has provided one yet.

    "Links to some paper which the author states there are "overwhelming evidence""

    -Which cites another author where there it states "overwhelming evidence" citing another author and so forth.

    "Japanese destroyed all records!!"

    -So what happened to "overwhelming evidence"?

    "Denial!! Revisionist!!! Apologist!!!"

    -(@_@;)

    Perhaps "enforced sex slaves" would be appropriate under today's PC sphere for these comfort women are now lumped together the other illegal prostitution around the world (i.e. 100,000 Korean prostitutes operating outside Korea). May not be good for Comfort Women, Inc. though.

  • -2

    HokoOnchi

    So was this issue resolved during the normalizing negotiations with the RoK government or wasn't it?

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    2020hindsightsJul. 13, 2012 - 05:24PM JST "Yes sfjp, in 1944 there was no cover up. No Japanese leaders were charged at the Tokyo War Crimes trials for the "comfort Women" issue because there was insifficient evidence to prosecute."

    Well with 75% death rate and the Japanese Army systematically destroying all documents relating to sex slaves may >be the reason. More evidence has since come to light.

    Dream on. There were plenty of more vital things that the IJA probably needed to destroy and even then look at the numbers od war crikminals that were cmnvicted. The simplest reason for lack of evidence is that it diodn't exist, not some conspiracy fantasy based on no evidence whatsoever.

  • -3

    OssanAmerica

    sfjp330Jul. 13, 2012 - 08:53AM JST "OssanAmerica Jul. 13, 2012 - 07:32AM JST. in 1944 there was no cover up. No Japanese leaders were charged at the Tokyo War Crimes trials for the "comfort Women" issue because there was insifficient evidence Even with 75 percent death of comfort women, I guess you believe in everything that Japanese Imperial Army told you >because they were Koreans and Chinese

    No sfjp, I believe what the United States Army had to say abiout it, YOu know, the ones who were fighting the Japanese.

  • 4

    sfjp330

    OssanAmerica Jul. 14, 2012 - 07:50AM JST no sfjp, I believe what the United States Army had to say abiout it, YOu know, the ones who were fighting the Japanese.

    Facts are Military men are generally quite insensitive toward the services rendered by women. American soldiers and officers during World War II were undoubtedly tainted with these attitudes, and this was probably one of the major factors that hindered them from correctly understanding the comfort women issue. These young women were simply a "sexual commodity," not an individual with human value and dignity. Military leaders viewed the comfort women as "commodities" supplied by "labor brokers" to be used as instruments to satisfy the sexual appetites of soldiers, while securing them from contracting VD and committing rape.

  • 1

    Crystalyle

    Some posts here are very insensitive and inflammatory. Especially TimTak's. History is always HIS-story. All the proof I need in this case is that Japan's denies HER-story which is the foundation of their attitude towards women. As long as this foundation remains it is proof that these war crimes, rape, sexual abuse and enslavement actually happened.

    Like any deck of cards, we build off the foundation and whether that foundation is positive or negative it must be strong in order to commit further acts of aggression.

    Knowing that Japanese considered themselves to be the Divine Race. It is very easy to see how they could look down on all other societies. They used those women cause they felt they were beneath them.

    I think Japan and Japanese should NOT deny this. In the court of public opinion, Japan is guilty as charged. Clinton's remarks reflect this sentiment which is why Japan's government was shaken and alarmed by her remarks.

    I think Japanese people should call for a proper resolution to this issue by their government. This decade has exposed that the government will deny anything. This denial is not a victory but much more so a self-defeating act. If you can't be honest with yourself, you can't be honest with anybody else. Your own society is in peril if the government denies the obvious.

  • 3

    SunnysideUp

    Of course they were sex slaves.

    Just come clean and admit how barbaric the Japanese military and government as well as Princess Hirohito were. Are you man enough? I mean human enough?

  • 4

    Bill Mullen

    The Japanese Military authorities of the 1930's brutalized and dehumanized their own personnel so it is no great leap of intelligence to understand they also treated conquered civilians with even less regard than their own. Now is not the time to downplay the suffering and injustice these women were put through. Sincerely acknowledge the sins of the past as only this will truly transcend the inhumanity of it.

  • 1

    Sir_Edgar

    Some of the women joined as "comfort women" for the pay and many were professional prostitutes (especially from Japan where some volunteered). But many were forced into it, some being kidnapped as young as 10 years old. Japan: This is not going to "just go away" as you wish. Deal with this "embarassment" and move on.

  • 5

    BertieWooster

    Just come clean and admit how barbaric the Japanese military and government as well as Princess Hirohito were. Are you man enough?

    I thought Hirohito was a man.

    Princess?

  • -5

    OssanAmerica

    sfjp330Jul. 14, 2012 - 08:10AM JST "OssanAmerica Jul. 14, 2012 - 07:50AM JST no sfjp, I believe what the United States Army had to say abiout it, YOu know, the ones who were fighting the Japanese." Facts are Military men are generally quite insensitive toward the services rendered by women. American soldiers and >officers during World War II were undoubtedly tainted with these attitudes, and this was probably one of the major >factors that hindered them from correctly understanding the comfort women issue. These young women were simply >a "sexual commodity," not an individual with human value and dignity. Military leaders viewed the comfort women >as "commodities" supplied by "labor brokers" to be used as instruments to satisfy the sexual appetites of soldiers, >while securing them from contracting VD and committing rape.

    If all of what you stated above is true, then this "comfort Womem" issue should not be an issue at all since it merely represents the prevailing and accepted attitude of the militaries of the world at the time, boith allied and axis alike.

  • 4

    Vernie Jefferies

    I see Hillary's point of view for the use of "Sex Slavery", because its the current term used in the US media to describe this type of practice. There are still countless women and children around the world being exploited today and used as sex slaves from human tracking. If you read Sex Slavery in Wikipedia, there is a disturbing section about the Comfort Women and Japan during World War II.

  • 1

    BessonovYan

    The Japanese government and all Japanese politics are very cynic.

  • 4

    richroirich

    One of the achievements of Hillary Clinton's era as secretary of state may now turn out unintentionally to be the Japanese reckoning with their own WWII history. A minority nationalist element in Japan has intimidated mainstream political leaders for decades with respect to Japan's role in starting and conducting war in Asia. Instead of openly and repeatedly acknowledging the historical fact of the war crimes committed by their own leaders (and hiding behind the atrocity of the use of atomic weapons on Japanese cities), political discourse in Japan has been stifled with respect to Japanese war crimes, and particularly, the sex slaves. This nationalistic but vocal minority may now have to be confronted.
    Writing of history cannot be addressed by momentary apologies in 1965 or at any other moment. It may become necessary for a more thorough evaluation of WWII itself within Japan culture which has never occurred. Euphemism and white-washing has been the avoidance mechanism. This is in contrast with how the German political culture has evolved with respect to acknowledging Nazi war crimes and militarism.
    The international escalation (and Americanization) of the issue now, with Clinton siding squarely with the Koreans, may expose this nationalistic xenophobic streak on the right wing of Japanese politics. All politics is local. However, the Japanese parliamentary leaders (including the prime minister and foreign minister) may be required to stifle these parochial political needs in order to retain respect which Japan covets on the international scene. As the Korean community in the US continues to assure the erection of monuments to these victims (modeled perhaps on Holocaust monuments erected on the initiative of the Jewish community in the US and other countries), the Japanese leadership will no longer be able to sweep the issue under the rug of political discourse as a "Korean" problem. Much will depend on how the Japanese media are permitted to address the issue and report on US public opinion. For friends of Japan in the US who have been chagrined by the Japanese historical white-washing of WWII, it could be an interesting and hopeful moment.

  • -2

    PT24881

    This is part of the Secretary Clinton's tactics to 'comfort' the Korean & 'enforce' them into a closer US led military trio alliance hand-in-hand with the Japanese ( first Korean-Japanese military agreement ended up with strong protests from Korean public due to, among the obstacles, the 'comfort women' issue ).

    Americans are realistic & practical when it comes to safeguard their interest.

  • 1

    bajhista65

    What else would you call them. Hehehehe Good one Hilary.

  • -4

    caravinca0

    To all haters

    I am guessing most people who are happy with this article is Koreans and Chinese. We Japanese are sick and tired of you guys' attitude toward issues as being a neighbor. I the past, The Japanese Gov. did appologize and paid money and still supports your Gov. Many war criminals were judged unfairly by US just afterWW2.

    What do you want more from us??? Why don't you have respect to solve problems? Why can't you see how others have different views about history? All you want is to conquir other culture, right? Is that how you and your children's future will be?

    Listen, you don't know how Japanese people are. You guys are making your own fallacies from things created by media. Issues like this,Senkaku, Takeshima, will never be solved until humans invent highly intelligent third judge agency. That's waste of your time unless you are hired to make noises.

    One more thing, do fair games in football and others. I love sports.

  • -4

    caravinca0

    Knowing that Japanese considered themselves to be the Divine Race. It is very easy to see how they could look down on all other societies. They used those women cause they felt they were beneath them.

    Do you think all the Japanese people back then believed so? That's silly.

    think Japan and Japanese should NOT deny this. In the court of public opinion, Japan is guilty as charged. Clinton's remarks reflect this sentiment which is why Japan's government was shaken and alarmed by her remarks.

    Japan and Japanese people does have right to deny. Who the heck are you to tell so? How can you deny other? Then, please imagine how to solve.

    I think Japanese people should call for a proper resolution to this issue by their government. This decade has exposed that the government will deny anything. This denial is not a victory but much more so a self-defeating act. If you can't be honest with yourself, you can't be honest with anybody else. Your own society is in peril if the government denies the obvious.

    Do you think many Japanese believe your idea and do just simply follow your suggestion? Mirror yourself, Please.

  • 1

    HokoOnchi

    If the issue was resolved already during the nomalization negotiations between Tokyo and Seoul, I don't see what the problem may be with having open and frank discussions about what happened to those women.

    I understand that there may be those in Korea especially who may be seeking reparations but that should be no reason for the historical facts of what happened from being discussed.

    Continuously trying to squelch the conversation only makes what is being squelched build up more pressure for acrimonious confrontation and provoke less than reasoned and reasonable position taking.

  • 1

    nigelboy

    HokoOnchi

    It all depends on what "open and frank discussions" are. So far, the surving comfort women gave their testimonies (which changes constantly) without cross examinations from the opposition. You think they're up for it? I doubt it very much.

    Hon. Professor An Byeong-jik interviewed and researched the surving Korean women for over three years and found at that only two were "forced" but even their testimonies are conflicting as they change from "being forced by recruiters" to suddenly "IJA". He quit the investigation because the Comfort Women Inc. were interested in finding out the truth and the structure of the comfort system but he felt that the organization was established to "pick a fight with Japan." To this day, there are no evidence of "forced by IJA" from these comfort women and despite this, the Comfort Women Inc. continues to yell "200,000 Comfort Women abducted by IJA". Open and frank discussions? Seriously?

  • -1

    Shimagaicha

    I wonder which scenario you would prefer if you had been one of these unfortunate women:

    "What did you do in the war, Grannie?"

    A) "I was an enforced sex slave." "What does that mean?" "I had sex with 20 soldiers a day."

    B) "I was a comfort woman." "What does that mean?" "I made the soldiers feel comfortable."

  • 0

    Ishiwara

    The Japn. government should have been more open and honest about this, but like it or not, not all the women were forced to do this. So this change of terminology Clinton proposes is perhaps not so accurate.

    Also, we should not forget that Allied troops often used the same women as prostitutes after Japanese defeat in 1945. And similar to the Japanese, especially the British in India had let economic conditions deliberately deteriorate to such a degree that many women had only one option: prostitution for the Allied troops. (See the book "Forgotten Wars")

  • -1

    Ishiwara

    To add to my last point: Japanese policies in Korea had very negative economic effects & people were forced to leave their lands, and many women had only the option to go into prostitution. Hence this was a dramatic situation with a very grey zone between "forced" and "voluntary" prostitution. (Same goes for the British in India and South-East Asia.)

  • 1

    cordiallytoronto

    In response to TIMTAK'S remarks are as follows: - at a person who thinks a culture that is "extremely kind and civilized" about institutionalizing forced prostitution of young girls as young as 10 years old, because there was prepayment made is obviously not a very civilized person himself...sounds more like a pervert! I feel sorry for any lady that chooses to date/marry such a man that has such sexist views! - also, TIMTAK really needs to get his facts straight, because for him to refute the stories of hundreds of women who have made it clear that they were forced (not by payment, but my abduction and gun point from their families...and they weren't just Dutch women) needs a big wake up call. He clearly is provoking some sort of hierarchy where he is conjuring the belief that Japanese people are superior to the rest of Asia, and that gives them the right to rape these women because they (the Japanese) are a "kind and civilised people". His logic is seriously flawed...for example, if Britain were do the same thing during WW2 to other European nations, that would totally be condemned, but because it happened to other Asian nations that makes it right and should be downplayed with no formal apologies being made by the government....give me break TIMTAK - your unconvincing, "laced covered", racialised remarks are so passe...you really are coming across as a goof, to put in layman's terms!
    - As well, for him to question why people are questioning his ideas and making remarks that he is "arrogant, right wing" etc., is his way of being provocative and dimwitted....he tries to come across as objective by being wordy in his responses...but the underlying message is the same...he is twisting the facts and he doesn't know what he is talking about...even if prepayment was made (which is only a fraction of the stories) - he obviously doesn't know that there were still violent repercussions if payment was refused...he obviously has not lived through a war or under forced colonial repression! - Furthermore, how does he know the facts? He states he has read some books (which I highly doubt he read thoroughly or if in fact at all, because I have also done research in this area when I took East Asian Studies courses at U of T), however, it appears he has chosen to pick and chose a few points here and there and is not really understanding the whole story...only the facts that fit his perverted views of this matter. Has he actually talked to any victims? I can assure him, I have personally spoken to victims and not one of them has told me payment was made to their families... their fathers were arrested or killed, or the brothers violently beaten up in their attempts to stop them from being abducted... so, I am cordially asking TIMTUK to really reflect on his responses and do proper research, because he clearly is not making a convincing argument that the world community is backing up....he is only coming across as narrow minded, sexist and racist...perhaps though that is who is truly is and his intentions? timtakJUL. 11, 2012 - 10:21AM JST ”xenophobic, arrogant, evil right-wing mindset never disappeared”

    Where do folks get these ideas from?

    The Japanese, aware that their grunts had a tendency to rape the women of nations they invaded (nothing new here), decided as they are an extremely kind and civilised nation, to set up a system of prostitution, which they did in the only way that would have worked, by paying the women about 20 times the pay of a private in the army, or a nurse at the time. Since the work was harsh and often in war zones, they also offered advance payments.

    Then later they are accused of being xenophobic, arrogant and evil. What is going on?

  • 2

    cordiallytoronto

    In response to timtak's remark below...ARE YOU KIDDING ME? This joke of a publication you have posted is NOT deemed as reputable research - you must have just done some internet search and found this propaganda material...also when you try to open the link you have noted, nothing shows up...I'm curious to ask why you think it's okay to deny the truth & are so adamant that what occurred is okay? timtakJUL. 12, 2012 - 10:36AM JST I thanked 2020hindsights for the book selections but I admit that thanks may not be relevant and perhaps my post was rejected for that reason. I have read books by three of the four authors 2020hindsights kindly recommends and I intend to read the fourth by Soh. To make this post relevant, please forgive me for introducing a "revisionist' (i.e. sex-slavery-denying) book by a professor of Area Studies and specialist in Japan Korea relations, Prof Nishioka, free in pdf below http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL021/39S4.pdf It is polemical -- many will say I have no doubt, "propaganda"-- but I would say of general interest and in intention honest. It is in many ways damning of Japan too. As this work points out on page, 33 for instance, and as I firmly believe, many Korean males were forced to work as what one might term 'miner-slaves' - the Japanese term is "mobilized."

  • 0

    JFBarnes

    Japan did some horrible things during WWII and they should never try to cover it up and be more like the Germans and not hide what was done during the war.

    I suggest to you read what wikipedia says about comfort women

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women

  • -1

    nolaguy

    Hillary is not absolutely write. Before people make such bold comments they should do further research. The fact is that the term "comfort women"had been agreed upon by both the Korean and Japanese governments after the war during meetings for "normalization" of international relations. It was considered by both countries to be the best term to describe what these women were forced to do. In order to understand this fully, Hillary would need a better knowledge of both Japanese and Korean characters. The term cannot be easily translated into to English as it loses its nuance and impact. Secondly, it should be noted, that all though it is not written in any Korean history book, the Korean government continued to use these women to entertain UN / allied troops stationed in postwar Korea long after the Japanese troops surrendered and vacated the country. Before Hillary or an other individual judges a country on its past and demands reparation (which I might add has been paid 10 fold, but that too of course is not in any history book) they should examine the true facts which are available if one is ready to do the research. All countries have committed their share of atrocities both abroad and domestically. However, it is about time learn from the past and put all these things to rest. Before any further mud slinging, the self righteous countries involved as well as the victims should examine their pasts...here are just a few things that never get mentioned lately: 1. US government's Tuskegee Alabama syphilis experiments 2. The French government's true covert role in Nazi occupied France 3. China policy in Mongolia (even now) 4. Israel's treatment of Palistinians to mention just a few Where are the apologies and reparation for the above?????

  • 0

    nolaguy

    I apologize for yet another posting, however, recent events have rubbed my the wrong way. I have lived and worked abroad for most of my adult life and yet recent events seem to be worse than I can even imagine. I have been living in Tokyo for over 10 years, before that Argentina, France etc... however I have never encountered such childishness as I have lately. The behavior of Korea is not only childish, but dirty. For the past 12 years,whenever the ruling party of the Korean government feels like it is losing popular support, it goes on a Japan history bashing session in order to stir up national sentiment and support. The issues which are inevitably brought up are: "comfort women"; "Yasukuni shrine in Tokyo" among others....What people fail to see through all the smoke is the true fire, which is the Korean government's attempt to win back the support of its masses. What many who have never lived and worked in Asia don't realize is, is that while Japan is always being criticized about its lack of solid truth with regards to school history books, Korean teachers are trained and instructed to teach hatred towards anything Japanese to their students. A teacher colleague of mind teaching French in JR. high schools in Korea was shocked by what he witnessed and was even fired for her comments against such "hate" education. History is history and yes, it mustn't be ignored, however, while concentrating on Japan's atrocities, no one seems to be concerned about Korean leaders' continuous usage of history in order to receive further funds from Japan as well as to once again gain popularity with the masses. If they were true leaders, they wouldn't have to resort to such dirty underhanded tactics. Yet, all the rest of the world can see is large groups of weeping elderly women systematically paraded like a tradition.

  • 0

    haha3

    I thought Japan had already apologised repetitively throughout the decades and huge compensations had been made. I think no compensations could make up for the lost, however, I also do not think continuous dwelling with the past will make us go anywhere. How long will this dwelling last? WIll we forever hate Japanese people for their heinous crimes in ww2 and I repeat heinous crimes even after another 100 years or a century after that? Will Japanese future generations and the future generations need to receive the cold shoulder for something their ancestors committed and not them themselves?

    I hate the Japs that are ACTIVELY involved in the war but their grandchildren, and the grandchildren's grandchildrens... etc are innocent of the crimes. Why are they also receiving the hatred? I know some people would laugh at the news when they hear about the tsunami and the nuclear plant melt down. These people are no more dirtier than those japanese soldiers during ww2 themselves. How could a person laughing at some one else's tragedy have any position to criticise anyone else.

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