DPJ win will settle 'historical issue' of Yasukuni: Chinese experts

Saturday 29th August, 03:35 AM JST

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nigelboy at 10:56 AM JST - 29th August

though making a new shrine would settle the issue once and for all, but I'm happy to see that someone is willing to put the thoughts/opinions of others before their own --

You can't build a new "shrine" because that would definitely violate the constitution.

and China is a very needed ally in today's world.

Who are China's ally by the way?
smithinjapan at 11:04 AM JST - 29th August

nigelboy: "Who are China's ally by the way?"

The US is looking to make China a more 'important' ally than Japan, as Japan is on its way down economically and otherwise. Japan also needs China, which means not offending China.

"You can't build a new "shrine" because that would definitely violate the constitution."

So build another structure to honour the dead. It needn't be a shrine.
nigelboy at 11:14 AM JST - 29th August

The US is looking to make China a more 'important' ally than Japan, as Japan is on its way down economically and otherwise. Japan also needs China, which means not offending China.

Please. Stop with the "obama" speech. He's looking to make any state a more "important" ally than whomever. He's what you called "八方美人”。　Look it up.

So build another structure to honour the dead. It needn't be a shrine.

"and when a person from Japan visits in an official capacity in particular it angers the others"

Why would this anger the others?
smithinjapan at 11:26 AM JST - 29th August

nigelboy: I know what Happou-Bijin means, thank you. You asked who China's allies are, I gave you an example; sorry if that upsets you. I know it upset the Japanese media, who misinterpreted it to mean that Japan will mean less in China's eyes, and all sorts of Japanese became weepy and upset about it. Obama had to give Japan a little 'Yoshi-Yoshi' on the back and a wee pep talk. The fact is that China is on the up and up, where Japan's path is extremely uncertain -- and with the US needing a LOT of money and China owning a lot of the US in bonds, etc., and having massive reserves, they are the more viable option. It doesn't mean things will be severed with Japan, but you asked who an ally is, so I told you.

"Why would this anger the others?"

Your history books are COMPLETELY blank, or just white-washed? Even you should know why it would anger others, my friend. Whether someone feels the anger is justified or not is not the issue, and depends on the person, but that anger exists, and is clearly referred to in this article (as is WHY). Try reading it.
nigelboy at 11:43 AM JST - 29th August

Smith: Well, if you know what Happou-Bijin means, then I don't have to educate you on the drawbacks. But the more ridiculous aspect of your comment is that U.S. is AN ALLY of China based on what Obama said. My goodness. I know you worship the ground he walks on and what not but I'm quite certain that the Pentagon agrees with your conclusion there.

Your history books are COMPLETELY blank, or just white-washed?

I'm asking YOU, why "visits in an official capacity ( as opposed to private) in particular it angers the others"?
smithinjapan at 12:51 PM JST - 29th August

nigelboy: Since you insist on being Mr. Literal today (which you'll back track on later, I'm sure, when your inevitable inconsistencies come up), shall I point out that 'ally' refers to 'forming a relation between, or uniting' including uniting on issues, opinions, and what more. It need not refer specifically to forming an alliance, non-aggression pact or coalition, or whatever your getting into semantics over. The US has stressed the importance of relations (as an economic ally, if you will) with China in the coming years.

"I know you worship the ground he walks on and what not but I'm quite certain that the Pentagon agrees with your conclusion there."

Don't misdirect your affinity for anything Japanese with the fact that I respect the current president of the US as opposed to the former. My god, man, you can't even understand that I'm PRAISING the Japanese politician in question here, and saying this could be a very good move for relations Sino-Japanese relations. You are simply carrying over a grudge for some odd reason, and it really does make you seem childish.

"I'm asking YOU, why "visits in an official capacity ( as opposed to private) in particular it angers the others"?"

You're asking me NOW that I've pointed out the obvious, but you certainly weren't specific before I suggested you read the article. Why do I think others get angry? It's quite simple, really; included in the war dead enshrined in Yasukuni Shrine are quite a number of war criminals, and some class A war criminals among them (four or so, I believe). Now, these war criminals were responsible for some very outrageous atrocities, including Nanking. So when a PM goes there in the transportation paid by taxes, as a representative of the nation, and signs his name into the registry under his title, nationals of some of the historically colonized nations take offense to the fact that the PM is 'officially' worshipping a group that committed some atrocities.

I personally think that the PM should be allowed to, without undue pressure, to visit the shrine as an individual (you can pat yourself on the back now and breath a sigh of relief). It would be nice if he were allowed to do so in his official position, but due to the war criminals enshrined there I don't believe it's in the best interest of the nation to do so, and part of his job is to look out for the best interests of the people here. What's more, although many radicals don't care what others think, or even are like Tamogami and believe what Japan did was good or what not and that other nations are wrong, it's a GOOD thing to get along with others. That extends from siblings to the playground to the corners of the world. I DON'T quite see Yasukuni as a symbol of Japan's militant past, as many Chinese seem to (or the ones making the fuss, anyway), but with the military enshrined there and someone praying for them, it's easy for that ACTION to be considered a step back. Making another building for worshipping the dead, making it clear that the war criminals are not 'included', would solve all these problems aside from please the U-yoku.

As for the Happou-bijin remark and the need (or not) to 'educate me', it's once again me that has to educate you. You see, calling someone a happou-bijin is simply a subjective remark, and not fact. So what you call downfalls for said person might actually be strong points that your bias won't allow you to see (and by 'you' I'm speaking of the general 'you'). In some cases many can agree on a person seeming like a Happou-bijin, but in the case you refer to much of the world would disagree.

Anyway, can we POSSIBLY get back to talking about this issue instead of people coming on here and simply bringing no baggage from other threads? Go back to my original post and start from there.

The DPJ seems to be presenting a lot of ideas that are going to work in favour of Japan if implemented. I DO think a lot of the ideas are pie in the sky and won't be realized, but this is an example of one that CAN, based on the personal decision of a person who's looking more and more like a real leader.
nigelboy at 01:33 PM JST - 29th August

Since you insist on being Mr. Literal today

I think you just fail to realize how wide open your definition of "ally" is. Hell. Based on your loose goosey definition, unless you're not at war with that nation, you're an ally. Hence, I sincerely doubt that PM visiting Yasukuni would jeorpardize it. Koizumi administration certainly didn't.

The US has stressed the importance of relations (as an economic ally, if you will) with China in the coming years.

No smith. It was Obama who stated the so-called importance. Yes. Mr. Happou Bijin himself who's domestic failures, flip flop policies, and downturn in approval ratings are all well known by the leaders of both Japan and China. So I'm getting the feeling that four years from now, it's status quo no matter what your idol saids.

My god, man, you can't even understand that I'm PRAISING the Japanese politician in question here

Because you're under some delusional assumption that I'm favoring Hattori because he's Japanese. You really need to expand your thinking there bud.

"I personally think that the PM should be allowed to, without undue pressure, to visit the shrine as an individual (you can pat yourself on the back now and breath a sigh of relief). It would be nice if he were allowed to do so in his official position, but due to the war criminals enshrined there I don't believe it's in the best interest of the nation to do so, and part of his job is to look out for the best interests of the people here. What's more, although many radicals don't care what others think, or even are like Tamogami and believe what Japan did was good or what not and that other nations are wrong, it's a GOOD thing to get along with others. That extends from siblings to the playground to the corners of the world. I DON'T quite see Yasukuni as "

You know, I agree with most of the contents on what you wrote in this paragraph except I also take consideration of the requests of organization in Japan which consists of surviving family members who year in and year out requests PM's to pay their respects specifically to Yasukuni. For me, I believe that their request should be always considered above what the outside thinks. That's why I defend their position.

As for the Happou-bijin remark and the need (or not) to 'educate me', it's once again me that has to educate you. You see, calling someone a happou-bijin is simply a subjective remark, and not fact.

OK. It's not a "fact". It's an opinion to describe someone. Any my opinion is that Obama's foreign policy fits the mold of Happou bijin. Calm down smith. At least I called him bijin.
guest at 03:49 PM JST - 29th August

USARonin: "Heck, as a former soldier I'd go there and honor Japan's war dead who fought for their country honorably whether voluntarily or not."

Most people don't consider the Batton death march honorable!
Himajin at 05:07 PM JST - 29th August

Most people don't consider the Batton death march honorable!

Yeah, that was the whole war, right there....
presto345 at 06:56 PM JST - 29th August

Political leaders can pledge what they want, but China won't be appeased by empty promises. And I won't vote for promises that lack credibility.

Yasukuni Shrine honors convicted war criminals along with Japanese war dead and is seen by Japan’s Asian neighbors as a symbol of the country’s militarist past.

How often does this topic have to pop up on this site? Is it because it stirs up emotions and the pages get filled?
OssanAmerica at 11:32 PM JST - 29th August

The US is looking to make China a more 'important' ally than Japan, as >Japan is on its way down economically and otherwise. Japan also needs >China, which means not offending China.

smith you live on another planet. The Chinese military train with the UNited States as the designated enemy, we play cat & mouse with outr ships and ubs the same way we did with Ivan during the cold war, Chinese PLA Geberals have declared their intent to replace the US as the dominant strategic power in Eat Asia, they are busy building a blue water navy to challenge the US 7th fleet....and you're babbling about China being our "ally"??? Nobody EVER said that China is our ally, much less an Important one. The statement was that our "relationship" was the most important just as that between the United States and the USSR was the most "important" one from 1945-1990. Japan is and remains our most IMPORTANT military ally in East Asia and has serveed as the doorway to all US operations in Asia since the Korean War. And no country, be it the United States, Japan or EU "needs" China any more than China "needs" the others. That's how trade and international ecomics works if you knew anything about it. You can't "trade" with yourself. Yasukuni is a Japanese problem which they need to solve on their own, and everuone who goes there is not connecteed to the right-wing or other wacko groups, and nobody is wishing for a return to the pre-WWII Japanese military dictatorship. In other words, to take China's position into account is catering to their spoiled brat attitutde, like not allowing the Dalai Lama in or anything else that "China doesn't like". But of course you support kissing China's butt right?
Pukey2 at 11:45 PM JST - 29th August

Ossan and USARonin:

But of course you support kissing China's butt right?

Well, I support anything that would prevent another war. You people need to realize that America is NOT the only country on earth and that other countries have the right to exist. Countries like China, Russia, India or any other country that might threaten your monopoly of the world. And that includes Japan - 2nd largest economy, fine. But 1st? That would only happen over USA's dead body.

Nigelboy:

Yes, I also know what 八方美人 means but some others don't. This site is in English, so stop acting like a smartie pants or an honourable Japanese, as if you're the only one who speaks the language.

As far as the DJP settling this historical issue - I wouldn't hold my breath, seeing that half the DJP are LDP rejects.

USARonin:

Heck, as a former soldier I'd go there and honor Japan's war dead who fought for their country honorably whether voluntarily or not.

If you were German, I'd like to see you say that to the whole of Europe. What was Ossan saying about kissing butt?
OssanAmerica at 12:39 AM JST - 30th August

Well, I support anything that would prevent another war. You people need >to realize that America is NOT the only country on earth and that other >countries have the right to exist.

I think we recognize the right of other countries to exist. Even countries we defet in war and occupy exist. Doesn't Japan or Germany exist? Doesn't even Iraq exist? Can you say the same for China? Is Tibet recognized as a country? How about the Uighurs? Or Georgia? You argument ought to be directed at China and Russia, don't you think?

Countries like China, Russia, India or any other country that might threaten your monopoly of the world. And that includes Japan - 2nd largest economy, fine. But 1st? That would only happen over USA's dead body.
Nessie at 12:44 AM JST - 30th August

Most people don't consider the Batton death march honorable

It's no wonder they don't when you use an inflammatory name like that. (sarcasm)
BurakuminDes at 07:41 PM JST - 30th August

I'm over this Yasukuni nonsense. At the end of the day, it is a private shrine, most Japanese themselves don't give a hoot. Maybe some nut will burn the place down ala Nandae-mon in Seoul and we won't have to hear it mentioned ever again!

I think PM-elect Hatoyama is doing the right thing, from reading a little of his policy, it appears he wants to engage with Asia, and bring Japan closer to the Asian region. Ignoring Yasukuni would probably be a positive step in achieving this and slowly rebuilding Japan's reputation.