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  tclh at 08:26 PM JST - 9th May

  Your post is so long and covers wide ranges of issues and it can take forever if we want to discuss all of them in details.Human society is always changing faster and faster everyday .Confucious system( almostdead and burried),socialist system,communist system,Chritianity,Buddhism ,Science and technology...etc are constantly mixed,eliminated,chosed,accepted through times with trial and error.In the West we have freedom of speech.We can constantly research,accept or eliminate at will what we think is good or bad ,true or false,relevant or irrelevant.If China wants to be trusted,it too should have freedom of speech like Japan does.Ofcourse you don't trust anyone or any country 100%,it is human nature to keep secrets but there are distinctive differences between free and democratic society and communist country.

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  OssanULTRA at 12:00 AM JST - 10th May

  "So a message to the people of the west, that complain about the situation in Tibet, before you complain, just take a good look at what you as the western culture has done in the world already and fix that first before you openly criticize something you haven't the slightest clue about."

  How do you "fix" events that occured hundreds of years ago? Thw "West" pretty much is incapable of repeating such things again. Neither Japan nor Germany are psycologically capable of conquering neighbors as they did just 70 years ago bercause their regimes have changed. But when we talk of China, or Myanmar or North Korea, we are talking about RIGHT NOW AS WE TYPE.

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  gdx9902 at 12:39 AM JST - 10th May

  To OssanULtra:

  That's the problem isn't it, if it was so easy to fix, it would have been done a long time ago. but it's not. But before we try to fix a problem we first have to understand it, fully. And I do not fully agree about the west repeating such things. As I mentioned in my post, a good way of subjugating people is with money. That's what the IMF is all about. I have had personal dealings with them, and I tell you it is not all that pleasant. The IMF front is a resource of money to be loaned to a country who is in need of money to develop all under good will. But there is a stipulation which they do not hesitate to fully capitalize. Any country that decides to borrows from the IMF must develop in accordance the IMF dictatorship(and I am not using this lightly), and this is without regards to any of what the people say. Who dictates the IMF? The G8 countries. Countries that deviate in favor of the people instead of the G8 economic interests have their governments conveniently removed, good example is IRAN and it's last shah. But you can research that on your own. As for the western powers trying to fix the problems, I haven't seen them try.

  To fix it, there is no easy way. I just find people who complain like to take the easy way out, and most of the time they can barely help themselves, and have many problems in their aspect of life that they need to scream at something and everything. The only way I sse to fix any problems is first fix yourself. With that you are an example. Next is you need some form of economic power, ie Forbes 100 list. Money talks, that's simple. (I can hear many people screaming BS!!!) But it's a fact of life. Or you be there, and play the political game. I am actually amazed at the number of people who openly criticize things actually end up doing nothing about these problems, except the odd protests, but that doesn't do anything, it just makes things worse. It's just a glorified pissing match, and any working professional knows the results of that.

  To Tch: Yes there are distinct differences between a democratic society and a communist society. But the end result is the same. Control. It's always been that way since the birth of civilization. I just find democracy hides atrocities and control methods much more better and effective than communism does. It's easier to blame the one guy at the top than different parties because you think you know who is looking out for your interests, but come on, we all know every democratic politician looks out for number one and the lobbyists. Yeah well you can say if you don't like him now, we can vote for the next guy, but the problem is 4-5 years is not enough to change a way of life. Technology and products change fast, but a way of life. Who are you kidding. it takes a minimum a decade, for any of those changes to happen, because those are changes in people, and they only occur if they want to. Furthermore, the similarities between the two political ideologies are the definitions of what is Good and Bad for people. I suggest reading Karl marx's book. And as for Confuciusm is actually alive an well today. You see it all around you each time you come into contact with an asian. It is as deeply rooted as the ideologies put forth from Socrates thousands of years ago. You don't see because you probably don't recognize it. Heck I have a tough time, but if you observe enough, you will see it.

  Now in regards to China wanting to be trusted, personally I don't care, because it's just what they say, not what they do. to me actions speak louder than words. But the path I see China following I do hope eventually China can be trusted, but now, I don't see it. Economically there is a higher percentage especially if there is a win win situation(win-win meaning both make money). But I know one thing, complaining, and protesting, isn't going to help elevaite the suffering that is taking place. Furthermore, I think what's happening in tibet is nothing compared to the past atrocities that have happened before. Good example is the people in Myanmar suffering from the cyclone and the government not able to help. Now to many of you, you're probably thinking why the government refused help, it all goes back to the IMF.

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  gdx9902 at 12:41 AM JST - 10th May

  Just a side note, after reading some of averNetwork's post he can tell you better than I some of the atrocities done by the west that have been hushed up. But I think he can tell you also in regards to the IMF, which values win in the end, what the people want or G8 economic values.

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  gdx9902 at 12:42 AM JST - 10th May

  sorry my bad, it's apecnetworks

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  tclh at 06:53 AM JST - 10th May

  In the old Confucius system,the King had absolute power above any of his subjects,in the house the father had absolute power over his wife(or wives) and his children,in school teacher had absolute power over his students,the woman was bottom class citizens...you don't see ANY of the above in today Asian society or asian family,even in China.Like any other place on this planet people lives are always influenced and shaped by politics and religions and Science& Technology and it is constantly changing.Christianity ,Western civilization is very much PART of asian 's today society,just like in the West people start to show interests in Asian cultures,in Buddhism,Asian values.

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  gdx9902 at 01:58 PM JST - 10th May

  To: Tch

  Confusiusm is a philosophy, not a political system. You are confusing the two. I suggest you read on who and what Confucius is.

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  apecNetworks at 04:35 PM JST - 10th May

  To Gdx9902:

  I appreciate your assessment of economic policy coordination. It is similar to what I was thinking, but hard to quantify. It does explain what the US is thinking in terms of a response.

  1998-99, the IMF got in the way of what I was doing and was surprised to find them there. It turned out ok. I do know about the IMF.

  You did state correctly, I am aware of the things discussed in your posts, but not familiar w/ Confucious philosophy at the level you are discussing. This oversight will be corrected.

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  illsayit at 05:46 PM JST - 10th May

  I think the words spoken concluding a recent tv programe of Japanese and Chinese politicians in debate sums it up, "Kimochi no mondai". I think they talk well, quite modern, considering how badly some countries talk.

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  tclh at 08:03 PM JST - 10th May

  gdx9902,I don't know why you try to seperate confucianism from confucius political system which China had used for thousands of years."We rise with our thoughts,with our thoughts we make the world'said the Dalai Lama,it is very true,it is correct .Confucianism was very much attacked,destroyed in China and in Vietnam quite sometime ago during time if earlier communism.Today when you see an Asian study hard for his /her degree that is because that person want to have a good job in the future,not because Confucius said so.Or"do not do to others what you don't want others do to you"you put that question to China about Tibet .Family ties also were destroyed by communism for a while and now is on the way of recovery but very much different to before.As I stated human society is constantly changing,

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  gdx9902 at 09:27 PM JST - 10th May

  To tlch:

  There was never a Confucius political system. Confucius was a philosopher. Like I said, please read about Confucius, and Communism by Karl Marx. By that you can clearly see what China has now is no longer Communism.

  To ApecNetworks:

  Thank you for the kind post, I think many of the root misunderstandings arise from different value systems of east and west. I hope the US does not make the mistake of assuming that everyone has the same value system they do. if that were to occur, hell may break loose.

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  TonyUS at 02:26 PM JST - 11th May

  Anyone ever hear of active engagement, which has brought China to where it is today??

  maybe that is too simple to understand for some

  You may critisize the west, but owe very much to them for what Asia is today. Especially China.

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  gdx9902 at 09:50 PM JST - 11th May

  Oh I completely agree, The west has helped China in unprecedented ways. But purpose of my criticizing the west was not to lay blame or turn the tables, tho it may seem so. The purpose of me criticizing the west is to provide most of the posters here a more complete picture of what is going and to show that everything is no black and white as most people see things. Many events good and bad have reasons, and some of them, from my understanding go way back several even thousands of years. As per my previous post people are too quick to judge once they see a small photograph. Instead of asking why, what is the cause, and see the big picture, they complain.

  I recall reading from an article from the NY times ,which I believe sums up the current cultural conditions very well, and it pleases me this delicate balance is still there. They mentioned that East and West breathe life into each other when the other falls stagnant, the reason being of it's radical differences in thinking, philosophy, etc. I hope this trend never goes away. But if people are too quick to judge like the protestorrs, and complainers, I fear it will separate the east and west further apart. This will in effect put a lot of strain and may even break the current economic system.

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  TonyUS at 12:08 PM JST - 12th May

  oh well to much to touch on when it comes to China and its system and control over its people, along with why the heck we even deal with such a country when we never dealt with the Soviet Union, as I see them as the same!

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  TonyUS at 12:29 PM JST - 23rd May

  pick out the good, pick out the bad,,, China is still what it is today, way behind the times on every front.. Especially society.

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