Japan to comprehensively review alliance with U.S.: Hatoyama

Thursday 29th October, 02:53 PM JST

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apecNetworks at 06:27 PM JST - 29th October

Oh yeah...."South Korea and North Korea? "

It was on my initiative to start the 6 party talks - I introduced it here on JT. My friends went for it.
mindovermatter at 06:52 PM JST - 29th October

timorborder

Specifically, Japan wants to get rid of the Yankee soldiers in Japan, while still having free access to the other benefits of being a friend of Washington. Unfortunately, it does not work that way. Either Japan is a reliable ally of the US (and by default other Western Countries), or it is (at best) a neutral power that should be held at arms length. You cannot have it both ways.

Spot On! Good Post!

But they talk like this the way kids put sugar on cold cereal

YGHome

Could you please list and describe these other benefits?

Sure.... It could take a while to explain them all, but I'll throw a few of the bigger ones out at you...

1) There's direct access to U.S. Markets and the great "one-sided" trade deals that japan enjoys... One-Sided meaning, we let you dump as many cheap products on our market, while you reserve the right to limit your imports of our products... Sounds fair huh...? This has been going on for a long, long time...

2) The U.S. security umbrella

3) Access to technology and infrastructure, that Japan will never have

4) The big-brother, someone to stand-up for you, and not too mention cheap oil.

I could keep going, but why bother, when you user-name is YankeeGohome.

I am sorry that you were raised in Japan, and have truly no idea about REAL history, especially Japan's History in Asia...
GMONEY7 at 07:23 PM JST - 29th October

apecNetworks, sorry I havent been following JT for such a long time.

I guess my main point being is, although the US or other nations which have interests to protect Japan could from other locations, the main reason they havent is a combination of cost, convenience, and the political implications of reducing thier physical presence in Asia. Countries like N. Korea, China, and Russia are pretty big on showing off thier military goodies and ability to defend themselves. And getting bullied by Japan into leaving thier bases (which wont happen), would make the US have a weaker position.

Also, If the US really left Japan to the wolves I think most of the Japanese citizenry would be pretty nervous as N. Korea would be emboldened to launch a few more amateur rockets over Honshu. Its not like people really want a offensively capable Japanese military here, or do they? I think the democrats here want a multilateral pact with US/AU/EU for defense, which seems pretty far fetched.
roomtemperature at 07:44 PM JST - 29th October

"One-Sided meaning, we let you dump as many cheap products on our market, while you reserve the right to limit your imports of our products... Sounds fair huh...?"

Well, it's not a matter if it sounds fair. It's a matter of logic. One-sided you say? Nope!! As you said yourself, America LETS Japan.....blablabla. Meaning, America has a choice and they can limit Japanese imports as well. But they don't!!!! Why??? Simply because America NEEDS Japanese (half)products and Japan DOESN'T need American products. Of course America gives direct access to its market, because its products lack quality. America's open market policy is the same like a sale. Japan's history in Asia? WTF has that got to do with this article. Control yourself man!
YGHome at 09:02 PM JST - 29th October

mindovermatter, thank you for your list above (posted at 06:52 PM JST - 29th October), to which I now relate:

You indeed mentioned significant gifts that Japan receives from America. Japan's prosperity can indeed be largely attributed to such gifts as the one-sided trade deals, the access to technology and the cheap oil mentioned in your list. Yet every gift is paid for in the end, and the pay might prove much higher than the gift itself. Perhaps the dearest pay so far is the loss of independence and the defacement of national identity. Another pay, a potential one, is suffering destruction and loss of lives in an aggressive war that America may joyfully arrange. I can envision another world which is not dominated by a violent hegemonic superpower. According to this vision, all nations enjoy the opportunity to develop and thrive based on the fulfillment of their own human resources, while holding relations based on equality and while retaining their independence.
ptolemy at 11:00 PM JST - 29th October

I agree with you all 100%. Don't let one drop of American blood be spilled for Japan.

If Japan wants the US out, then leave. Let Japan play big boy and defend itself.

It doesn't matter the spin put on the subject, Japan is a soverign nation. If Japan does not want US protection, then pack up the fleet for Guam and wave "Sayonara".

Surely Uncle Kim or Brother Putin can protect Japan better, right?
mindovermatter at 11:08 PM JST - 29th October

Perhaps the dearest pay so far is the loss of independence and the defacement of national identity.

Huh...?

Of all the things I mentioned, those are probably the biggest and greatest gifts YOU received from the U.S. and MY forefathers. I would even say that you owe a debt of gratitude to every-single U.S. service member that ever served here in Japan, not only protecting U.S. interests, but yours and your family's safety and security, whether you realized it or not...

Sure, you get a free-ride on the U.S. economy, because we have stupid idiots that go along with these "one-sided" trade deals, and sell-out their own country for a few bucks, but whether you know it, believe it or not, Your freedom is the gift you've been constantly receiving for the last 50 years, whether you appreciate it or not...

Your government in cooperation with the U.S. are responsible for this... They Made these deals to put U.S. soldiers on Japanese soil, in-part to protect Japan's interests and security... As well as serve U.S. strategic interest and help bring stability to Asia.

So forgive me if I use no tact, but you guys sound like a bunch of spoiled rotten kids... And unless you've served in the Japanese Military, actually defending your country, you have absolutely no-place to criticize any american service members serving here in Japan, protecting your rights...

Now if you want to talk about people that really have something to bitch about... Let's Talk Iraq, where we had a piece of crap president, who invaded another country that didn't attack us, and 600,000 plus Iraqis get killed because of this... Now, that's an Illegal Occupation....

Japan needs to get onboard with the International community and start honoring international treaties, first off would non-discrimination, and then a host of other internationally recognized laws and policies...

Sorry, not one ounce of sympathy for JN's, until you start playing by the international rules, like all the other civilized countries...
nigelboy at 01:28 AM JST - 30th October

The reason why U.S. doesn't want to leave Japan is simple.

According to the Allied Contribution to the Common Defense dated 2004

"Cost sharing in support of U.S. forces stationed on its territory remains Japan’s most significant responsibility sharing contribution. Indeed, its host nation support** is the most generous of any U.S. ally**, and consists of funding covered under both the Special Measures Agreement (SMA) and the Facilities Improvement Program (FIP). The Department’s estimate of Japan’s cost sharing support for U.S. forces in 1999 was $5.2 billion, covering 78.8 percent of U.S. basing costs."

This, of course, is the highest among the 26 other Alliance countries but in fact it's nearly 1.1 times the total of those 26 other nations.
JHansen at 02:11 AM JST - 30th October

The problem with this debate is that in the minds of many Japanese, the world was created on September 8, 1951. Anything prior to that date is just ancient history and should not matter in how Japan and the rest of the world engage each other. Unfortunately for the "illegal occupiers" folk, there are well over 1 Billion Chinese, Koreans, and Americans who do have a memory past 8 Sep 1951.

In the end the sovereign government of Japan signed the treaties allowing US forces to stay in Japan. The will of the Japanese people have kept their constitution in its current form. If there is any serious obstacles to getting the US troops out of Japan it can be found in the people and government of Japan. They are the ones in charge of their country and they are the ones who must decide on this issue.

Having said that if Japan wants the US out, they only need to state that the treaty is over and in one year the US, will have to leave. I for one am in favor of the US pulling out of Japan. In this way the US could save tons of cash, make serious inroads towards a friendly and positive relationship with China and Korea.
rogerbentham at 02:52 AM JST - 30th October

japan should be grateful for america.
Triple888 at 03:17 AM JST - 30th October

Seems like Japan is tired of being shoved around by Uncle Sam on it's own turf. Japan wants to be equals with the US by taking advantage of declining US influence.
NeoJamal at 04:23 AM JST - 30th October

Sorry, not one ounce of sympathy for JN's, until you start playing by the international rules, like all the other civilized countries...

As in ratifying the Kyoto Protocol?

[neojamal]
bdiego at 05:46 AM JST - 30th October

This guy still hasn't any idea what he even wants, but can't help but shoot his mouth off in every direction. Hey, make a decision one way or the other stop fantasizing about having your cake and eating it too. Getting Japan to take care of their own defense would be wonderful for the US, they're a hopeless burden. Problem is, they don't know how and it would just mean we'd have to come back and clean up the mess when China or NK causes trouble.
YGHome at 05:15 PM JST - 30th October

bdiego,

we'd have to come back and clean up the mess when China or NK causes trouble.

Forget it. You will not be called back to clean up any mess. The relations between China and Japan are very good and are on a continuing improvement line. As for the tension between Japan and North Korea: America's presence is not the remedy for this tension but the cause. The plan of using Japan as a springboard in changing the regime in North Korea creates a risk for Japan. Yes, Japan and North Korea have various grudges against each other, but these can be solved. America is not a cleaner of mess. It is a source of mess everywhere throughout the globe.
roomtemperature at 06:25 PM JST - 30th October

YGHome:

Amen!