Ishihara agrees with Nagoya mayor's Nanjing massacre denial

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  • 18

    sensei258

    Are you frikkin kidding me?

  • 18

    midnull

    Oh boy they're are digging themselves into the ground. There's documents. Records, etc...witnesses are still alive. Hum...

  • 8

    some14some

    Shintaro Ishihara ? He's Always Unhappy with US and China.

  • 35

    grammefriday

    Ishihara believes that it would have been physically impossible for the former Japanese army to kill so many people in such a short period of time, Jiji press reported him as saying

    perhaps Nagasaki and Hiroshima weren't as bad as the japanese claim.... perhaps the numbers and effects were overstated??.... I wonder how Ishihara and his pals would feel if the foreign press start spouting this line...

  • -23

    nigelboy

    perhaps Nagasaki and Hiroshima weren't as bad as the japanese claim.... perhaps the numbers and effects were overstated??.... I wonder how Ishihara and his pals would feel if the foreign press start spouting this line...

    Unfortunately for you, Ishihara will agree with you. Nice try though.

  • 7

    calm down

    Sad...no,scary.

  • 34

    rickyvee

    this is typical of ishihara's belief system so it's not so surprising. he's an ultra-conservative at his core. the fact that he's still in office says a lot about the citizens, or at least the voting citizens, of tokyo; mainly that there are a lot of ignoramuses amongst us.

  • 5

    Yubaru

    I personally believe the Rape happened and that both these nuts need a space in the closest loony bin!

    A comment here on a misconception I do believe;

    There's documents. Records, etc...witnesses are still alive. Hum...

    What documents? What records? You see if there were either it would be easy to validate one way or another that this event ever occurred. And from previous sewage spewed from the mouth of Ishihara witness testimony can jaded and what people think they saw and what actually happened are two different things. In effect he calls them liars.

  • 7

    AKB0815

    What is this ? The club of indifference? This is so out of line it is near comedy. I don't care for their personal opinion, but if they speak in official position this is really embarassing for all of us. Get some education, maybe there should be after parliament history class for all of them? Wouldnt that be nice?

  • 18

    mitoguitarman

    That these fascists continue to be supported by the voting public speaks volumes about the underlying ethos in Japan. There's a dangerous undercurrent here, and other countries must continue to beware of it.

  • 1

    NeoJamal

    perhaps Nagasaki and Hiroshima weren't as bad as the japanese claim.... perhaps the numbers and effects were overstated??.... I wonder how Ishihara and his pals would feel if the foreign press start spouting this line...

    Many post-war Japanese right wing nutjobs actually view Americans in a favorable light and accept the firebombings and the nuke drops were natural consequences of the war without harboring bitter resentment against the US. They also broke up anti-Korean War demonstrations during the 50s. Hard to believe right?

  • 7

    marcelito

    Aaah......Ishihara -the master of diplomacy....hope he continues sprouting stuff like this while Tokyo is bidding for the Olympics...( he may be able to scuttle the bid all by himself,,,which would be the best outcome possible )

  • -22

    peanut666

    It seems that people want to believe in horror more than truth.

  • 5

    AKB0815

    We are poor people, we can not vote but only gather here to share the dread...

  • 5

    kaminarioyaji

    Shocking, but sadly not surprising...

  • 28

    Yukio Mishima

    I've read the clipping in the Japanese paper of the the two soldiers having a contest for the first one to cut off one hundred heads.... they lost count and decided to start again.... it might be a fake article, but let's be honest the Japanese soldiers were nasty pieces of work bayonetting, raping and plundering their way through south east asia. The moderator will probably delete this post cause he doesn't like anything negative written about his precious Japan or its inhabitants.... well I've been living here for 20 years and know plenty. If you want a funny read get your hands on the book by Ishihara and his bum chum the late Akio Morita the man who started Sony, boy does he dislike anybody who isn't Japanese. I would have love to seen his original draft before the editor took the red pen to it, to make it printable... It's a real giggle! Ishihara is a mad raving, twitching, blinking, frothing at the mouth racist! The majority of Japanese can't stand the chinese, but are too polite or sneaky ( I haven't decided which! ) to articulate their dislike clearly. That Ishihara is governor of Tokyo confirms some of my suspicions regarding the majority of Japanese, but if I write that this article will get the secateurs of the moderator! So I'll tread lightly. Thanks mod! the "Big Borther" I always wanted!

  • 4

    NetNinja

    What a view on life we get to enjoy. What unique observations we get to see. I'm sitting here, reading this, looking around my office and just wondering if the men I'm working with have any idea of how Kawamura and Ishihara are affecting their lives, their families, and the future of their children.

    Killing ties with China? Really? Where you get most of your cheap goods and rare materials in order to make your computers, tech, etc. They could cut you off. You'd never get another auto part from Thailand again.

    Try grounding all the planes you send to China each day if they lock you out.

    Seriously, Kawamura and ESPECIALLY Ishihara are warped out of their minds. The bounce has gone from their bungee is an understatement. They're just hanging around now.

    These are men who are ready to raise your taxes and cut off your opportunities to expand your businsses overseas. Why on Earth are the people of Japan not passionate enough to shut this country or it's Internet down in order to protest.

    If China mobilizes their fleet or the bombs start to fall you might have to call me Flyjin.

  • 3

    sillygirl

    there are a lot of deniers out there from all countries and we scoff at them.

  • 10

    Piltdown Man

    Sadly, Ishihara's whole slew of revisionist and racist assertions deliver him wide winning margins at the polls.

    From what I have seen, this idea that, far from being a perpetrator, Japan was an innocent victim in the war, and benevolent toward those it ruled, has been gaining in popularity here since the mid 1990s. Until that time, (late 80s/early 90s) it seemed like Japan was starting to address the past, come to grips with what had happened, grow up and move forward -- lots of backsliding since then, though.

    I see more and more of this denial mindset and move to a fascist mentality in politics as Japan's demographic bubble deflates, the economy sags and job prospects for Japan's younger generation diminish. Let's hope voices of reason eventually win out.

  • -5

    SushiSake3

    Certain posters above need to be a bit more careful when they question the perceptions and attitudes of Tokyoites who vote for Ishihara.

    Tokyoites vote(d) for Ishihara based largely on what he says he will do for the city of Tokyo, not on his perceptions of what happened in Nanking in 1937.

  • 4

    Yubaru

    Certain posters above need to be a bit more careful when they question the perceptions and attitudes of Tokyoites who vote for Ishihara.

    Tokyoites vote(d) for Ishihara based largely on what he says he will do for the city of Tokyo, not on his perceptions of what happened in Nanking in 1937.

    The two go hand in hand when it comes to being the leader of one of the worlds largest INTERNATIONAL cities. He is politically lucky that foreigners living in Tokyo don't have the right to vote.

  • 5

    kakifry

    I know many Japanese whom I call my true friends. They are kind, gentle and accept me for who I am. So I am embarrassed and outraged when I encounter the ignorant, racist and throw-back beliefs of such pathetic individuals as Ishihara, his cohorts and, now, added to the list, the Mayor of Nagoya. Please retire and go away to rot peacefully in your hatred and ignorance. When your gone, we'll turn your place into a public dump for everyone's refuse.

  • -26

    peanut666

    We are talking about 75 years ago. Get over it China.

  • 1

    Cletus

    Tokyo’s outspoken conservative governor Shintaro Ishihara on Friday said he agreed with the mayor of Nagoya’s statement that the 1937 ‘rape’ of Nanjing by Japanese troops never happened.

    Why of course he does, combined these two guys have got less brains than a peanut. And to think that people actually voted these nuff nuffs into office. Way to go Nagoya and Tokyo you are really leading the way there.

  • 12

    spudman

    based on the experiences of his father who was in Nanjing in 1945

    8 years after the event, The same logic follows that a US serviceman on leave from Korea in 1952 could say there was no Atomic bombing in Hiroshima because there was no mushroom cloud when I was there on R and R.

  • 3

    Piltdown Man

    I have heard a fair number of Japanese people express their disapproval of Prime Minister Noda, former PM Kan and their predecessors (and in my opinion they are exponentially better than Ishihara). Never once have I heard a Japanese person denounce Tokyo Mayor Ishihara, who arguably yields more power than any of those PMs. I'm flabbergasted, and just can't understand why.

    If there really are any Japanese people out there who would like to see an end to Ishihara's reign, please help break Japan's chronic apathy and let your voice be heard.

  • -29

    issa1

    Ishihara and Kawamura are right. There is no evidence to prove otherwise and the existing evidence are highly questionable.

  • 0

    Darren Brannan

    To be honest the USA has been complicit in encouraging this anti-China sentiment of late, with China becoming the new punching bag. I don't see this waning but pushing Japan towards a very confrontational position with China.

  • 6

    lincolnman

    What these old fossils fail to understand is that by making these outrageous claims, they are giving the communist rulers in Beijing exactly what they want - more rationale to ratchet up nationalism and deflect criticism of the regime's abysmal human rights record and treatment of its own citizens.

    Anyone who criticizes the US-Japan Security treaty would be wise to "reflect" on the unstated and unpublicized reason for the accord - to remove the threat of future Japanese militarism should one of these far right wing nuts someday find themselves, and their adherents, in a position of power.......

  • 18

    sfjp330

    Why is Japan so clueless on how to proceed with better relations? What good is the apology when you still have over 50 goverment members still attending Yasukuni? How sincere is the apology when there is no action? Maybe Japan is good in copying, why don't they learn from what Germany did after the war? J-Goverment needs to guarantee that the next generation of Japanese schoolchildren will be taught the full extent of wartime atrocities committed by the Japanese. Right now, in Germany, it's against the law not to teach the Holocaust in public schools. Contrast this with Japan, which for decades has systematically covered Japanese war crimes. The J-goverment whitewashed it from their textbooks. The rape of Nanking, just that incident the number of deaths that resulted surpasses the death toll of the victims of Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined. That's just one incident. And the rape of Nanking was not a unique and isolated incident. There were so many similar atrocities that occurred all throughout China. So few people even know about them. And every year on August 6th, Japan keeps looking at the mirror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the victim of the war which they cannot see beyond. Who was the real victim of the war?

    They will not forget. In Nanking, many Japanese soldiers went beyond rape to disembowel women, slice off their breasts, nail them alive to walls. Fathers were forced to rape their daughters, and sons their mothers, as other family members watched. Not only did live burials, castration, the carving of organs and the roasting of people become routine, but more diabolical tortures were practiced, such as hanging people by their tongues on iron hooks or burying people to their waists and watching them torn apart by German shepherds. So sickening was the spectacle that even Nazis in the city were horrified.

    In the real world, people are defined by what they do. The 14 class A war criminals in Yasukuni are defined by the brutality of the regimes they ruled and the shame and defeat they brought to Japan. So when 50+ of these J-goverment officials that represents millions of Japanese people in their district visits Yasukuni, he or she is, whether he likes to or not, implicitly endorsing their actions. Actions which included the murder of millions of Chinese, Koreans, Philipinos, slavery, the murder of POWs and human experimentation. Likewise, if Angela Merkel visited Erwin Rommels grave in order to “pray for peace” she too would be tacitly endorsing the third reich. In any event, I hope that you’ll be able to see why these 50+ J-goverment officials actions are wrong.

  • 4

    mikemiro

    As most in this thread have stated, I too think that Ishihara is a belligerent, insensitive, xenophobic old misanthrope. And I am not surprised that he made these comments (he has towed this line for decades - an avowed China hater) However, I think I understand why people in Tokyo keep putting this moron in power. He stands out amongst the typical dull, incompetent, tight-lipped, mainstream Japanese politicians, and his antipathy toward China reflects the general sentiment among people in Tokyo toward the Chinese. Obviously I'm not defending this moron, but I think I know why people here keep voting for this bellicose right-wing fool - because most here secretly share his viewpoint.

  • 14

    borscht

    Ishihara and his ilk should view the films of John Magee (An American) and reports by John Rabe, a Nazi who was shocked at the Japanese atrocities... A Nazi shocked at Japanese atrocities. That must mean something in itself.

    I've seen bits of the film and dead bodies line the boulevard. I've also read a book by Japanese WWII veterans who openly admitted to killing civilians because 'they were only following orders.' Sound familiar?

    However, the deniers will probably say "It's CG!" "It's fake!" Once your mind is closed, it's hard to open it again, eh, Ishihara-kun?

  • 0

    NetNinja

    @Kawamura and Ishihara too. You gonna go see Christian Bales new movie?? I'm sure Kawamura and Ishihara won't. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets banned like The Cove

    I can hear the audience already whispering. *translated J to E: "OH SNAP!!! Is that you grandfather?" "Yeah, Hollywood even got the uniforms right"

    It's called The Flowers of War.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1410063/

    All you non-believers can buy your tickets now. You'll walk out of the theater mad.

    Perhaps this is the reason for the timing of Kawamura's statements. Hollywood will bring their movie here and the politicians are trying to get ahead of it. Possibly ban it.

  • 4

    LoveNot

    Even after losing the war and several islands, after being bombed by America with atomic bombs, some Japanese haven't got a clue and did not learn from history. I do not understand how stupid Tokyo people could be to vote continuously for the idiot Ishihara. He had basically insulted everybody in this country and abroad (women over 40, French language, foreigners China, Asia etc). I really hope Japan would never get back the disputed islands with Russia, they have never repented from the heart and do not feel shame for the war crimes they committed.

  • 1

    madammika

    And here he goes again!!!!!

  • 8

    Disillusioned

    Of course they are gonna deny it! It is a shocking **BUT TRUE **part of Japan's recent history and the Chinese will never forget it, for good reason. And, Nanjing was not the only place it happened. The were many cities and countries throughout Asia that were 'raped' by Japanese troops. Yet, we all know, the Japanese were the victims of the war cos they had two A-bombs dropped on them, right? Poor bastards! NOT!

  • 9

    cadmium31680

    Sack Ishihara - he's too old and not lucid. For a governor of Tokyo to say this is unforgivable. China should reduce diplomatic ties even further.

  • 13

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki never happened.

    The Japanese government fabricated everything.

  • 7

    LoveNot

    This guy Ishihara won his last elections directly after insulting the victims of the March 11th earthquake saying it is a divine punishment. And people still voted for him. I can not believe people vote for him scandal after scandal after scandal. He is already completely senile but people of Tokyo still do not get it.

  • 6

    supermonk7

    And the clown show rolls on....

  • 3

    Ayler

    Tokyoites vote(d) for Ishihara based largely on what he says he will do for the city of Tokyo

    Haha oh yeah, like eliminate kafunsho. Still waiting on that one. He must be too busy organising another olympic bid and making a fool of himself with comments about Nanjing.

  • 1

    devdave

    As someone who lives in a country with free speech, Ishihara certainly has the right to promote a seemingly common Japanese view that the "so-called massacre" didn't actually happen. As an American, I can similarly promote the common American view that dropping both atomic bombs was necessary to compel the surrender of Japan during the war.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRWldPJVHNQ

    I'm sorry, mayors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, did you say something? All I heard was buzzing in my ear...

  • -5

    kwatt

    @LoveNot - People voted for Ishihara because they think Ishihara is still good as Tokyo governor whatever he says. You misunderstood a divine punishment. It is not punishment to Northern Japan, it is whole Japan is punished because all politicians are not doing right n good job for people.

  • 0

    fidaruzki

    Well, for many years history books has been written according political views and survival. And to my view, politicians are the very persons one should not believe. They would say whatever they want to secure positions. I grew up listening to my grandmother's story about how she had to pacify my mother during Japanese occupation in WWII and until today, many of the older generations are still not over that. Those who were born during that era or live through it still bear the scar that cannot be erased. By denying those would not help the way many people perceived or think about Japan. But perhaps the Japanese in general doesn't even have a clue. Or simply don't care

  • 0

    sfjp330

    What is more important for Japan? Better relations or friction with leading trade partner. If Ishihara doesn't like China, why don't he ask 20,000 Japanese corporation to leave China. These Japanese companies that do business in China are not very happy with stupid comments. Ishihara should resign.

    Some Japanese, while ignoring or denying Japan's war guilt and proven war crimes in WWII are quite happy to accuse the U.S. of committing a war crime by dropping atomic bombs on two Japanese cities and play the victims card. Japan should feel ashamed of the annual peace declarations in those two cities because they failed to include the point of view of Japan as an aggressor in the war.

  • 0

    Ayler

    Doubt this will be available in your local Tsutaya,more's the pity. Some Japanese have been trying to find the truth.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/film/story/2010/03/31/nanjing-documentary.html

  • 2

    ExportExpert

    The man is an idiot and we all know it, he just reinforces the fact each time opens his mouth.

    The incredible thing is that tokyoites keep re-electing this fool.

  • 1

    Kabukilover

    This is not surprising. Ishihara is a long time denier of Japan's Asian Holocaust. I am now waiting for Osaka's Hashimoto to chime in.

    Nanjing was absolutely right to suspend ties with Nagoya after Kawamura's remarks. What a shame to be associated with a place that elects a boob like Kawamura as governor.

  • -1

    herefornow

    Ishihara believes that it would have been physically impossible for the former Japanese army to kill so many people in such a short period of time, Jiji press reported him as saying

    LOL. Great logic to support his claim. As if he is some kind of military/historical expert. He should stick to running Tokyo, and leave foreign relations to the professionals.

  • 3

    Cricky

    It's well documented outside of Japan, there has been a systematic confiscation of all things related to this "incident" by the government, photos, personal recollections weapons. Those few brave men who have travelled back to apologize have been painted as nuts...the whole world knows - from nazis complaining and independent sources, and the stories of those who were there. It's pathetic, other countries are more aware of this bestial action than the population of Nippon. It is sad to see such a wonderful culture degrading it's self through their elected officials. Maybe two bombs weren't enough?

  • 0

    NetNinja

    @Ayler Thanks for the link. I read that. NICE POST indeed!! I clicked your "Good"

  • 3

    bicultural

    Oh dear, this old fogy really needs to shut up.

  • 2

    NetNinja

    @fidaruzki I'd like to respond to your post here. Consider yourself very fortunate to have those living room talks. They're not recorded in any history books and once these people pass away Japan's government will make every effort to erase the event from the minds of people and history.

    I also had this talk. I am very fortunate that I have such a wonderful relationship with the Japanese side of my family. Especially my mom (I don't say in-law). Over the years I've learned more and more about their lives and how they grew up. She told me what happened over there in Nanjing and China. She has never forgotten the horrors. The atrocities by the Japanese army were so bad that once things started to shift the other way they knew it was escape or death.

    Have no illusion, it's simple. The Chinese did not invade Japan. Japan invaded China. What were you doing over there in the first place? They invaded. Then went on a rampage. Japan's army steam rolled China and left nothing but death in their wake.

    How can such a massacre occur?

    When you brainwash your society into believing they are the divine race you create an army of giants that believe that everyone else is impure. This mindset is the main ingredient and premise on which a massacre can begin. Japan engaged in every kind of warfare in China. Chemical, Biological attacks. Methods include deprivation, isolation supported by physical and mental abuse (Japanese police still do this, see activist story). Babies were taken away from Chinese families much like Japan still does today.

    Those were monstrous days. It's not that everybody in Japan denies it...maybe more like nobody wants to know. No, no, don't tell us that.

  • -19

    JapanGal

    I interviewed some old men that were there and they said it did not happen. I believed them.

  • -4

    Serrano

    I bet Ishihara gets re-elected again.

  • 1

    delrennich

    No surprises here...most politicians are just idiots on a power trip.

  • 3

    smithinjapan

    Why is pointing out that this is the same man who wants the Olympics "off-topic"? I could understand if I were focussing on the Olympics itself, but I'm pointing out the double standards this man applies to various situations, and as such how ill-suited he is to be a leader, and how wrong to claim that he and Tokyo welcome foreign culture with open arms.

    It's absolutely revolting that he backs up the Nagoya mayor's statements about Nanjing. Not surprising, but revolting. I hope this draws more attention to the situation.

    Yukio Mishima: (I love your books! haha). The case of the 'race to one hundred' is pretty well documented (outside of Japan, of course), but a lot of politicians, so-called 'historians', and ultra-rightists like Tojo's granddaughter insist it is merely made up propoganda, along with the 'comfort women' and what have you.

  • -18

    JapanGal

    I hope he does too Serrano. He is a good governor just as one of his sons is a good weather man on channel 8.

  • -1

    Nicky Washida

    You misunderstood a divine punishment. It is not punishment to Northern Japan, it is whole Japan is punished because all politicians are not doing right n good job for people.

    Oh, that makes it alright then.

  • -17

    JapanGal

    @smithinjapan

    I do not understand what you are writing about. Did you read the story?

    The man is a good mayor and I believe in him.

  • 0

    ubikwit

    what is it that drives these people to denial?

    they want to feel some sort of moral supremacy or something?

    ishihara seems to be basing his delusional statement on the numbers.

  • 3

    Ben_Jackinoff

    Ishihara agrees with Nagoya mayor's Nanjing massacre denial

    I'm shocked. Ishihara is normally so diplomatic.

  • 0

    kukuchai

    Ishihara is shame to his family and also his as a japanese politician.

  • 3

    gogogo

    Shintaro Ishihara is the most racist JP official out there. He is a boob.... just do a google image search for proof

  • 4

    bicultural

    Most young people I speak to in Tokyo believe Ishihara is a nut job with no sense of what's happening in the real world due to his privileged background. Unfortunately, the number of young people who vote is quite low. Do you know which group has the highest voting percentage? Elderly women. It is these ignorant old women who keep voting him in due to his good looks and his "experience" as a governor. Younger generations voted for Higashikokubaru, including me (I obtained my citizenship so I can vote now).

  • -1

    SpeakJaplish

    "Oh great and mighty wise one, you speak again. What great wisdom you share with us. How can we ever pay you back?" ISHIHARA: My dear followers, my word is sound and true follow me to the election booth and I will bestow my great knowledge upon you!!"".... .... This guy keeps getting elected. Many of my Japanese friends wonder why the Koreans and Chinese are always pissed off. 1+1= 2. And the hate continues. I wonder why??? A Korean friend had once told me, "I hate Japanese". I said, "why?" She said that her grandparents had constantly told her and her parents stories about all the atrocities that went on during the occupation. This was 20 yrs ago. As long as the clueless Oojichan's keep opening their mouths, this kind of hate will continue to be passed on.

  • -7

    kwatt

    @Ben Jackinoff - Because there is not evidence and eyewitness and only elderly Chinese people say so about massacre.It is said that some European and American people lived there in Nanjing at that time but there is nobody saw the massacre. Many Chinese farmers survived Cultural Revolution in 1966-76 and many assumed this is a part of Japanese invasion.

  • 0

    PT24881

    Expecting indeed Ishihara & his pals to pop up & state his support for such a hot issue about Nanjing massacre denial-- here we go with the guy desperately trying to steal the headlines again ! Really donot mind if he states nonsenses on other issues such as disputed territories etc ...BUT Deeply regrettable to have people arguing on issues related to human lives-- Japanese press stubbornly focused solely on the challenging the number of victims & in technical details ( example, was it possible to kill so many people in so short time & so on ) to avoid the main subject matters of massive killing civilians on other countries' own land !

  • 1

    Ben_Jackinoff

    kwatt,

    What are you on about? These two politicians should learn the art of shutting up every once in a while. Their remarks are completely uncalled for. If the mayor of Nagoya did not understand what a sister-city relationship means, he should not have become mayor. It is not a secret that the two cities shared a cultural connection. Thus, his sudden comments are not only politically ignorant, they are culturally so as well. Nagoya's other sister city is LA. Would it be appropriate for the mayor there to talk about the necessity of the A-bomb when Kawamura were to come for a visit? No, of course not. Not because the opinion is correct or not, but because the comments do nothing to further ties between the two cities, which is supposedly why Japan has these sister city relationships. Ishihara is just as ignorant.

  • 1

    Ben_Jackinoff

    After his comments about the earthquake, Ishihara was reelected as mayor. Perhaps after this he can be appointed PM.

  • 1

    presto345

    Ishihara? Huh? Oh, that one. Yeah. He keeps at it. Some or probably many enjoy his, what shall I say, lack of tact. What is worrying though is that there seem to be so many id**** who are intent on keeping this clown in office.

  • -5

    kwatt

    @Ben - Ishihara is just another person. He was just reelected as governor by people, not mayor. Eathquakes are happening every day. Japan is an earthquake country. Big ones happen sometimes. He would never be PM because too old.

  • 3

    gelendestrasse

    Ishihara must have gotten off the leash again. I can't say that China is much better than the 1930s Japan was but: a) the Japanese really have to read up on history and b) the Chinese ought to clean up their own act. Using the poor history of one country to justify modern misery isn't going to win any friends.

  • 2

    ebisen

    Judging by the election results, he does represent and speaks for a good majority of Japanese people... Here is the answer why people from most Asian countries hate Japan from their hearts...

  • 1

    Kabukilover

    Another thought. Just at time when Japan really needs friend, Kawamura and now Ishihara doing a splendid job in alienating not only China but anyone else who is offended by atrocity denial.

  • -22

    YuriOtani

    Looks like the Japan bashes have the advantage. You will never wins friends with your blather. A few people talk and all are blamed. No, I think war is coming.

  • 1

    Verisimilitude

    if you look into chinese history textbooks, they do not mention the Joint national statements made by Japan & China, for the sake of better relations and peace.. repeated gestures of peace on both sides, have failed. It is not to say, the Chinese bureaucracy is meddling in materials on educating their young about history, it is more likely to be a retaliation against the Japanese bureaucracy, who, ideologically will not accept fact. Even if it was a lie.. one cannot DENY, the atrocities of total war... Nonetheless, no matter who the prime minister is, who the ministers are, or what party controls government, if the people are not educated, the bureaucracy will NEVER change, therein, Japan, this society will never, ever change..

  • 2

    GW

    Wow another emabrassing day to be living in Japan, we have had too many of these the last few years. And Japans slippery slope downwards, just got slicker!

    The IOC needs to tell Tokyo, you have one week, either HE is gone or yr bid is tossed, we dont tolerate holocaust style deniers!!

    It will be interesting if hashimoto in Osaka chimes in, my god the furture here is getting worse even quicker than I expected

  • 1

    CVHuan

    Looks like China is being shown a troll face by these two men... How far will Japan continue to piss on China's national feelings?

  • -8

    Seiharinokaze

    In the previous decades before the war with Japan started in China, Chinag Kai-shek had conducted a bloody suppression of local warlords in the Northern Expedition and a full scale purge of suspected communists as in the Shanghai Massacre of 1927. Slaughter and retribution were commonplace. Infighting within the Kuomintang was also constant. Were they anti-Communist or actually pro-Soviets? And what was the military advisory group from Nazis Germany doing in China at the time too?

    After Nanking fell, the Japanese Army mopped up Chinese soldiers in disguise and killed 15,000 to 20,000 captivated soldiers on the Yangtzi River, which may be condemned as a violation of the law of war. But soldiers should not disguise themselves and mingle with civilians, which would only jeopardize the lives of people they should protect. And many civilians may have been entangled in the mopping up operation. But rabid massacre of hundreds of thousands of civilians within 5 or 6 weeks after Nanking fell is preposterous. It's what was formed gradually and expediently as part of the wartime propagation by the Kuomintang which was put to rout and then taken over by the CCP. Perhaps the ghost of Wang Jingwei who died in Nagoya might want to say through Kawamura's mouth that the revolution has not yet been completed.

  • -1

    mekki

    devdane: if your point is to state that even in US you have as ignorant and racist people as we have in Japan then I get it. But we knew it already.

  • 1

    LoveNot

    He is a good governor just as one of his sons is a good weather man on channel 8.

    Yes, nice family indeed. As far as I remember one of his sons was involved with embezzlement of public funds, it was a big scandal but still ishihara got reelected.

  • 3

    BurakuminDes

    Even the oddball weatherman/comedian son would make a more reputable politician than his grubby father. He has obviously gone senile. Just retire to a nursing home where you belong, old man. Ishihara is a sad indictment on the people of Tokyo and their character.

  • 4

    oginome

    Looks like the Japan bashes have the advantage. You will never wins friends with your blather. A few people talk and all are blamed. No, I think war is coming.

    You still don't get it. Read the posts here to see why people are angry, really READ them. No one has said all Japanese people are Asian Holocaust deniers.

  • -1

    tsukki

    OMG I have no words for this

  • 3

    Qaueckernaeck

    Guess Ishihara consider that it was all in the name of science, so it can't be considered a massacre?

  • 3

    zichi

    Another old nag who should be put out to pasture......

  • 3

    Serrano

    JapanGal - I'm not hoping Ishihara gets re-elected.

  • 4

    David Chiang

    This is just another reason why most Asian countries hate Japan. The fact they have the audacity to not teach true history for decades and then have their country's politicians deny that it ever happen. They are blatantly worsening their relations with an international superpower. Japan no longer has the economic leverage to "look down" on other Asian countries. The Japanese economy is in a down trend, Japanese companies are doing poor internationally and yet they choose to worsen their international relations.

  • -4

    Lazzaris Alberto

    We wont have peace until people stops living from the past. USA dropped nuclear bombs in Japan at almost the same time. And what you'll see in Japan? People burning American flags?

  • 3

    WilliB

    These two guys represent the dark underbelly of Japan. It is embarrassing.

  • 3

    Virtuoso

    It's clear these men are convinced Japan's own defeat, suffering and victimization obviate the need for empathy toward anyone whose suffering Japan was responsible for. It must be based some sort of twisted version of the karmic worldview.

  • 5

    tmarie

    This is not surprising. Ishihara is a long time denier of Japan's Asian Holocaust. I am now waiting for Osaka's Hashimoto to chime in. You and me both! I really, really do hope Hashimoto makes a stupid comment as people need to know what a snake he is.

    Yuri, are you seriously accusing people of being "Japan bashers" on this thread? Do you get what this thread is about??? Unreal. Get a clue. Just because people are pointing out what racist crazy men these guys are does not make people "Japan bashers". Unreal.

  • 1

    tmarie

    If you look at his Wiki page, it really is just one train wreck after another. Part of me wants to write them all down and give them out at train stations so people can look at all the stupid things he's said and done. Unreal. Way to go Tokyo, way to go!

  • 1

    mrsynik

    So, the silly old goat has decided to shoot his mouth of yet again. Why can't he be taken out to sea and fed the sharks? Oh and good luck with your Olympic bid with comments like this. They will come back to haunt you.

  • 2

    tmarie

    These guys are denying it happened. Has Japan apologized for the rape of nanking??? Have they apologized to other Asian nations for all the things they've done - they have for the comfort women but have they for many of the other things? Having two mayors of two major cities deny this is pathetic. And just makes Japan look stupid and uneducated.

  • 0

    bajhista65

    that mass murders and rapes had not happened, a belief he says is based on the experiences of his father who was in Nanjing in 1945 at the end of the Japanese occupation of China.

    How would he know he was only there 1945. It was 1937 when the ‘rape’ of Nanjing by Japanese troops happened. 8 years later. It is well documented in History Channel and National Geographic. Those Japanese soldiers under the late Emperor Hirohito were the most brutal soldiers according to one Japanese officials JT posted here. It's about time, history be corrected.

  • 1

    TravelingSales

    I think the real truth is that Ishihara is working for China. Every time the Chinese went another hand-out or political favor from the Japanese government something like this happens. I reckon the Chinese are paying Ishihara to conveniently time the controversies.

  • 1

    tmarie

    1995 was the only one out of those dates they apologized. Being 'aware" is not the same as saying "sorry". Surely you can see the difference.

    I am glad to see "they" did apologize but having these two idiot mayors comment that certain events didn't happen is just poor. And certainly is causing a lot of hard feelings. Perhaps Noda should address the issue and make a public comment about these two buffoons? That would go a long way - though yes, I doubt that it'll happen.

  • 2

    warispeace

    That Ishihara said this is not surprising given his track record. More infuriating is that the citizen's of Tokyo keep electing this man as their governor. Do they now see how badly this leader's behaviour reflects on them? If they do, why do they not care?

  • 1

    brianprager

    Ishihara and Kawamura: two disgusting peas in a disgusting, long lied about Japanese pod. There are the sickening lies of these "officials" protecting Japan's elites, and there is the rest of the human race, which does not and has no reason to dispute this hideous component of Japanese fascist assault on China, Korea and South East Asia. The education debate on this and the whole of Japanese actions in the 30's and 40's, and the current political garbage forcing teachers and students to sing Kimigayo and salute the flag while worrying about the idiots in the royal family and their "succession" rights, are all of a piece. Japanese political affairs must grow up; the planet must not continue to tolerate them and their disregard for human standards. Ditto Japanese child abduction.

  • -3

    jamplass

    While this is disturbing it really is no surprise at all. Ishihara has been spouting the same nationalistic drivel for god knows how long and Kawamura, although he's new and youngish represents one of the most conservative cities in Japan.

    BTW, Irish Chang's book has been criticised for very good reasons. The Chinese photos that are bandied about as "evidence" are complete fabrications. The best research on the Rape of Nanking has been by Japanese scholars, most of whom agree that yes, it did happen, yet the actual numbers of Chinese killed is probably a third of what the Chinese government claims.

    Yet, denial of the Rape of Nanking is another thing--ignorant, and Japanese need to be educated about this important pat of their history.

  • 0

    Cricky

    There is no positive future with out ownership of the past

  • 1

    Yubaru

    I'm shocked. Ishihara is normally so diplomatic.

    From whose point of view? Diplomacy is not one of his strong suits that is for sure!

  • 2

    warnerbro

    Japan is rapidly descending into insignificance. It blithely sprayed its economic heartland with radioactive substances. It's economic importance is falling by the minute. It never had any diplomatic importance. It has nothing resembling the shadow of a military force. Who in China need care what nonsense these two cretins spout?

  • -1

    just-a-bigguy

    Now we know how the Japanese 'fossil politics' is working!

  • 0

    Ruud Thea Bisenberger

    Denial seems to be the word in their dictionary. The words sorry and apology they do not seem to know, that word does not exist.The only word they know very well is LIE. The Japanese government has to come to terms with what their fathers, and for fathers have done in World War II.They did the same in Indonesia with the European women who were their prisoners. They raped and killed them too.My mother was there., and Thank God she survived. She had to live with this terrible nightmare the rest of her life.

  • -3

    budzie

    I wish Iris Chang hadn't used doctored pics to prove her point. Clearly, something horrible happened; it's the extent we'll never know.

  • 1

    Kabukilover

    One thing I find so crazy: Mayor Kawamura allegedly based his denial of the Rape of Nanjing on what his father told him. Is this really true. Did that idiot really say that? Denying the Rape of Nanjing is stupid enough--but on his father's word?! This beats most of the rubbish spewed by conservatives in this country. But not all of it.

  • -1

    Ruud Thea Bisenberger

    George Santayana reminds us that the lessons of history are invaluable,"Those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it". Lest we forget! You cannot longer pretend it did not happen!

  • -6

    YuriOtani

    I am not sure what happened at Nanjing but am sure it was bad. I just do not give the subject a lot of thought. it happened oh 75 years ago.

  • 3

    andrewfx51

    @YuriOtani

    We love Japan. I don't like that these people can represent Japan - most Japanese people are incredibly respectful, and truly atone for the horrific events of the war. I do not understand how our opinion of a person who is not you, can possibly offend you, yourself.

    I personally want to apologise every time an Australian is responsible for an indescretion - and feel the need to defend my country and my people, but at the same time distance myself from the person, who may be a complete bigot, thereby giving all the people in my country a bad name.

  • 0

    pokka

    sad truth is this is just another political tactic for the Chinese government to distract its people and foreigners... using the nanjing massacre will certainly get everyone fired up and upset with Japan, like the recent government sponsored movie "flowers of war". politics is politics, been happening since the beginning of time...

  • -11

    YuriOtani

    andrewfx51, these two men do NOT represent all of Japan. However the bashers are saying they do. Again the attacks are not being limited to the 2 big mouths. They are attacking all Japanese and this includes me and my family. Then they are saying really STUPID things. Stupid hurtful things, things that put a divide between our peoples. Again I do not normally think about such thing and most Japanese do not. We have our lives to live, today's problems and concerns. It is not whitewashing the past but it happened 75 years ago. China and the Japanese bashers are bashing the entire country and this deeply offend me. Also as I go though my life in America, I am becoming more and more afraid of the people around me. Do all of them think innocent Japanese civilians got what they deserved? Perhaps even attacking me to get revenge? The posters need to really read their words and think how they would like it if their country was called these names?

    • Moderator

      All readers, please keep the discussion civil and do not bicker with each other.

  • -11

    YuriOtani

    oginome, I do not give a lot of thought to the invasion or Okinawa or Hiroshima. Really, If I would think of it too much the hate for America and Imperial Japan would be impossible to control. Ishihara-san has always said the darnest of things. He has been saying this nonsense for years so it is not even news.

    I do believe the Japanese did very bad things in China but so did the Chinese. That of course is no excuse for their hideous actions. I am not sure of the extent of the crimes. You do forget the west has whitewashed their crimes. The raping of women, the taking of skulls. Some are still being returned from America. While some are still being proudly displayed. UC Berkley has a collection of them and they need to be returned to Japan for accountability and cemetary

    So I live my life and try to think of a hopeful future instead of a dark past.

  • 4

    oginome

    oginome, I do not give a lot of thought to the invasion or Okinawa or Hiroshima. Really, If I would think of it too much the hate for America and Imperial Japan would be impossible to control. Ishihara-san has always said the darnest of things. He has been saying this nonsense for years so it is not even news.

    And yet he keep getting re-elected even though he offends and denigrates the memories of so many. What does this say about the Tokyo populace? That they don't care? That they secretly agree with his views? Either way, it's not pretty and it comes down to Japan not taking responsibility for its past. And Governor Ishihara is far from the only one in power who thinks this way, as we've seen from Kawamura. How many others feel the same? It's a truly depressing thought. These xenophobic idiots are a menace to Japan.

    I do believe the Japanese did very bad things in China but so did the Chinese. That of course is no excuse for their hideous actions. I am not sure of the extent of the crimes. You do forget the west has whitewashed their crimes. The raping of women, the taking of skulls. Some are still being returned from America. While some are still being proudly displayed. UC Berkley has a collection of them and they need to be returned to Japan for accountability and cemetary

    Nobody on this site has defended China or tried to justify its atrocities! You keep bringing it up as though we have. We all know that China is responsible for the murder and maltreatment of millions of its own citizens. But this still doesn't change what Japan did, which remains a completely separate issue from China's own crimes. China today is a dicatorship, Japan is a democracy, surely we're supposed to hold Japan to a higher standard here? Japan needs to excavate its long buried past for ITS OWN SAKE, nothing to do with China or America. Only then can it properly move forward.

    So I live my life and try to think of a hopeful future instead of a dark past.

    As do we all. But Japan's policy of not learning and whitewashing its dark past is compromising its own future. I don't want to Japan to get dragged into another war either. But Ishihara and his goons think differently. Surely the pacificistic Japanese population demand this cretin be removed from power, or failing that, just STOP VOTING for him. His kind would gladly instigate another war and the level of popular support he enjoys is frightening.

  • 1

    Patrick Hattman

    @issa:

    Ishihara and Kawamura are right. There is no evidence to prove otherwise and the existing evidence are highly questionable.

    And it's people like you that try to say that the Rape of Manila never happened, or it was just tens of thousands of Filipinos caught up in "normal fighting" at the end of the war, and that some Japanese military didn't eat body parts of executed Americans on Chichijima, and that the experiments of Unit 731 and others in China never occurred, or that the subjects really were "maruta," and that basically Japan was just trying to free the rest of Asia out of benevolence....

    Asia needs to move on from what happened in the 1930s and 1940s. But it is hard to do so when Japan has so many men like Kawamura and Ishihara in top political positions.

  • 2

    Byron Perkins

    There are some who deny the horror and reality of the Holocaust. While not the same in scope and evil, the Nanjing Massacre is a fact of history, and denial does little to heal the wounds or to prevent a similar occurrance in the future. Justifiable or not, the horrors of Iwo Jima, Okinawa, and Hiroshima also occurred. Man's inhumanity to man is documented throughout history, in the recent past in Cambodia, with Polpot and the Khmer Rouge, Bosnia-Hergezovena/Serbia,the Hutsi and Tutu uprising in Uganda, and is ongoing today in places like Sudan, Congo, Nigeria, Iran, North Korea, Somalia. Whether in the name of War and nationbuilding, Politics, Religion, Tribal and other ethnocentricities, or Racial divisions, evil occurs. It will occur again if we think it is impossible or deny it's reality.

  • 9

    yasukuni

    @Yuri, I just read your last post and thought it was very fair.

    The problem people have is that the mayors of leading cities making statements like that is not the same as a redneck in a bar somewhere.

    The fact that Ishihara can hold to that opinion, state it, not be attacked and made to step down leads people to believe that a significant number of Japanese believe the same thing, or don't care.

    And I can tell you after living here for 20 years, that most Japanese have no idea what their soldiers and government did in Asia. I think if they did honestly know, that things would be different.

    Yes, Allies committed atrocities. During the war, and during the occupation of Japan. But, if they made a documentary about that tomorrow, it could be shown. People would watch it, and if rightwing Americans made threats trying to stop it, it would get media coverage.

    That's what's scary about Japan. Most people here have no idea about Japanese wartime atrocities, and have never bothered to study them. And because of that, they can't understand Asian feelings. And that is a ridiculous situation. It's not even in Japan's interest - so it's crazy on all fronts.

    btw, if Japanese people knew about the atrocities in China, Unit 731, the way POW's were treated, the fall of Manilla, and just the hideous things that happened in so many places to people of different nationalities, they would have some idea of context for later atrocities against Japanese people.

    I think you forget that most people commenting on Japan actually love Japan and Japanese people. Really. For my part, it's absolutely frustrating and embarrassing that politicians and educators in this country are so clueless. Japan has wasted an incredible opportunity it had after WW2. It's zannen to see this country sinking.

    Once again, I don't blame the average Japanese. I hardly know anyone who could tell me a summary of Japan's actions in WW2. If they don't understand that, it's impossible to understand Asia and the rest of the world. Far more important that studying about the Jomon era.

  • 6

    yasukuni

    btw, back in the bubble era when Japan seemed to have too much money and were spending it on bridges in the country, art galleries and junkets everywhere etc etc, they had the perfect opportunity to address these issues. They lost the perfect opportunity.

    The weaker Japan gets, the less people (read china) are going to ignore stuff like this.

    I agree with you about the skulls. But, if you are worried about how people will treat you, why don't you and all the other Japanese you know do something about it and express your rage against Ishihara? Just complaining about chinese, is the worst response.

    After the earthquake, tsunami, Japan had the world's sympathy. I hope it doesn't lose it.

  • 6

    Yubaru

    I am not sure what happened at Nanjing but am sure it was bad. I just do not give the subject a lot of thought. it happened oh 75 years ago.

    I find this hard to believe really since you put so much effort and energy into remembering things that happened 65 years ago.

  • 1

    PT24881

    "I am not sure what happened at Nanjing but am sure it was bad. I just do not give the subject a lot of thought. it happened oh 75 years ago.."

    Do believe your comment was honest..however, the fact is :Generations on generations, people ( outside of Japan of course ) will remember such cases 750 years or more later.
    Selective memories of past history educated in a collective way ( Memorial dates for events are numerous -- Hiroshima, Northern Territories.. Just to name a few let alone those Negative Ones a handful of Japanese strive to bury.. That hurts & keeps passing on the burdens to younger generations who ought to be ignorant about it.

    Just take a look at the good example of Germany, atrocity committed by the Nazi troops during the War..was very well admitted, cordial apologies & some compensations done after the War.. Younger Germans donot need to assume the burden of the past. German troops marched side by side with the French soldiers during the National Day Parade in Paris.. Could the SDF forces do the same in Seoul / Beijing ? ... But please stop complaining against 'conspiracies' invented by your neighbors by telling OLD stories about Comfort Women, Massacres etc to demand compensations from Japan. There are things beyond money in this part of Asia.. The choice is yours !

  • 6

    smithinjapan

    Yuri: "So I live my life and try to think of a hopeful future instead of a dark past."

    Would it not be better to live your life thinking of a hopeful future based on acknowledging and making amends for the past instead of burying it and hoping no one notices? You seem to think that reflecting on the past means you have to have a dark future, when in truth reflecting on the past in order to avoid repeating it is the only way to ensure the future you are hoping for.

  • 3

    Qaueckernaeck

    My uncle was killed in a Japanese prison camp, in Burma--I hope that today's youth is aware of the atrocities that happened during WWII, beyond the A-bombs, as to prevent it from happening again. Ishihara/Kawamura need to take it down a notch or two.

  • 1

    jianadaren

    It was Japan's "leaders" who brought it to war, and too many of them are still saying the most stupid things.

  • 2

    tmarie

    I do not give a lot of thought to the invasion or Okinawa or Hiroshima. But a lot of others do which is why there is a ceremony to mark Nagasaki and Hiroshima every year, why it is covered in English textbooks of all things, why Japan includes "history" in their school curriculum.

    You accuse everyone on here who are disagreeing with Ishihara and Kawamura as "Japan bashers". Do you see how little sense that makes? Most of us on here love this country (whether you want to believe that is your choice) and hate seeing their friends and family being tarred as ignorant because of the crap that comes form elected leaders' mouths. What these two men have suggested is disgusting. Thing is, where is the outcry from the Japanese public? Oh right, there isn't any. Why? Because sadly, I think many either agree with the thinking or don't care. Both are dangerous not only with regards to Japanese and China's relations (be it business, tourism) but the rest of the world looks and wonders how the Japanese public can elect such idiots. That damages the rep of the country far more than you might like to think. Perhaps it is time you stopped and gave the subject a thought?

  • -11

    j4p4nFTW

    I have to agree with Yuri Otani. At first I want to say these men are making a huge mistake because this will stir up hornet;s nest with neighbors. But then I see people saying all Japanese think like them or that Japan hasn't apologized just due to them. That is very untrue. So now I have to support Kawamura and Ishihara and stand up for fellow Japanese.

  • -7

    issa1

    This is a proof,inferiority complex of the Chinese.Therefore they will never overcome it.

  • 3

    Cletus

    YuriOtani

    again I do not normally think about such thing and most Japanese do not. We have our lives to live, today's problems and concerns. It is not whitewashing the past but it happened 75 years ago.

    YuriOtani that's funny that you say that because you are constantly and l mean constantly bringing up the US invasion of Okinawa and supposed war crimes committed by the US. So for you to say you don't hunk of it and the past is the past is nothing short of a cope out on your part. Just go back through your posts, you are constantly advocating or predicting war with your neighbors, complaining about Japan and okinawas treatment by the allies and so forthright so please YuriOtani get serious

    China and the Japanese bashers are bashing the entire country and this deeply offend me.

    Funny you deeply offended me last week with comments about my nation commemorating an attack on our cities by your nation now you want people to feel sorry for you and your feelings. Maybe you should have given that some thought last week there buddy.

    as I go though my life in America, I am becoming more and more afraid of the people around me. Do all of them think innocent Japanese civilians got what they deserved? Perhaps even attacking me to get revenge?

    Really YuriOtani you can't be serious, you aren't a foreigner in Japan so you should be ok....

    The posters need to really read their words and think how they would like it if their country was called these names?

    HAhaha maybe you should go back and read your own posts for the past month or so, afterall you pretty much gave Otto my country last week so what goes around!!

  • 1

    bam_boo

    At first I want to say these men are making a huge mistake because this will stir up hornet;s nest with neighbors.

    j4p4nFTW, do I understand you right, you don't think they make a mistake because they hurt the feelings of the victims or their descendants, or because they deny historical facts, but because they stir up a hornet's nest?

    So I suppose you are one of those Japanese who don't think Japanese did anything bad in Nanjing, just like Kawamura and Ishihara.

    But then I see people saying all Japanese think like them or that Japan hasn't apologized just due to them. That is very untrue. So now I have to support Kawamura and Ishihara and stand up for fellow Japanese.

    j4p4nFTW, your fuzzy logic is irresistible. Anybody with a sense of reason will support Kawamura and Ishihara after reading your post...

    This is a proof,inferiority complex of the Chinese.

    issa1, I've never heard of a 'proof,inferiority complex', sounds interesting... what is it?

  • -5

    nigelboy

    After Nanking fell, the Japanese Army mopped up Chinese soldiers in disguise and killed 15,000 to 20,000 captivated soldiers on the Yangtzi River, which may be condemned as a violation of the law of war. But soldiers should not disguise themselves and mingle with civilians, which would only jeopardize the lives of people they should protect. And many civilians may have been entangled in the mopping up operation. But rabid massacre of hundreds of thousands of civilians within 5 or 6 weeks after Nanking fell is preposterous. It's what was formed gradually and expediently as part of the wartime propagation by the Kuomintang which was put to rout and then taken over by the CCP. Perhaps the ghost of Wang Jingwei who died in Nagoya might want to say through Kawamura's mouth that the revolution has not yet been completed.

    Seiharinokaze

    Hence the numbers game. In order to keep in line of "mass slaughter of civilians", you got to have "hundred of thousands".

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Japan should just admit and apologize for all of the war crimes in China, but only do it on websites that China blocks. Then Japan could just deny they ever said anything, ask for proof, then say those sites have been blocked for public safety by China and it's just too dangerous to go to them.

  • 3

    jennie

    I am being condemned so I might as well support Ishihara-san and Kawamura-san.

    Well, if you live in America then you might have access to Netflix. There is a well made Chinese film on the subject of Nanking, "City of Life and Death," that is currently available on Netflix. The movie actually portrays a Japanese soldier in sympathetic light. In the movie review section there are several great comments from Japanese Americans and here is one example:

    Reviews voted most helpful

    A SERIOUS REVIEW As a Japanese American I knew the events depicted in this harrowing and unforgettable movie. My grandfather served as a fighter pilot for the Japanese Imperial army during WWII, and I served as a US Marine during Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003. My father was able to avoid the Vietnam War because, at the time, he was only a student at Univ Tenn. on a visa. He shared the horrible stories of his dad and the atrocities that occurred during that war, so I was always a WWII history buff as long as I can remember. War can bring out the very worst and best of us, and I believe this movie depicts both elements clearly, beautifully, tragically, and honorably to the victims and nations at large. It's sad and embarrassing to know that the Japanese government, to this day, deny their criminal roles in Nanking. This is a tragedy in it of itself, so I can understand the hatred that still lingers amongst the Chinese, especially those survivors and their families. A superbly filmed B&W movie that leaves a lasting impression on you for sure.

    Rest assured this movie reviewer will never be "condemned" just because his grandfather served for the imperial army in WWII.

    People need to be rational when it comes to Nanking. Chinese should learn not to use this subject as a convenient propaganda tool, and Japanese need to understand that little can be gained by ignoring or denying their dark past. Today's Japanese are so far removed from that period thus should not be held responsible for what happened. However, by "supporting" those who deny war crimes, either actively or passively, you are probably not getting much good will from many people.

  • 2

    oginome

    Japan should just admit and apologize for all of the war crimes in China, but only do it on websites that China blocks. Then Japan could just deny they ever said anything, ask for proof, then say those sites have been blocked for public safety by China and it's just too dangerous to go to them.

    When are people going to get that the millions Japan murdered in the 1930s and 40s have nothing whatsoever to do with any hypocritical or deflecting tactics a dicatorship like China uses today? This isn't a point-scoring game. Japan needs to make amends and take ownership for its own sake.

    People need to be rational when it comes to Nanking. Chinese should learn not to use this subject as a convenient propaganda tool, and Japanese need to understand that little can be gained by ignoring or denying their dark past. Today's Japanese are so far removed from that period thus should not be held responsible for what happened. However, by "supporting" those who deny war crimes, either actively or passively, you are probably not getting much good will from many people.

    The rational thing to do would be to take ownership of your past, teach it to the younger generations and afford the same level of respect to the millions murdered by the Imperial Army as you currently do to the thousands who perished in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Japan does NOT get to play the victim without also acknowledging its own crimes. The sheer audacity of this self-absorbed, negationist attitude beggars belief. How dare they?

  • 3

    yasukuni

    To the right-wingers, if China became a democracy tomorrow, and Chinese were free to discuss the atrocities committed by Chinese on Chinese, ordinary citizens would still be outraged that the mayor of the capital of Japan could make such an outrageous statement.

    But I live in hope that Japanese can learn to get along with their Asian neighbors.

  • 5

    Wurthington

    Do these men really want to fight China? Do they want a return to Japan's Imperialistic days when millions of Japanese and others died in war? Do they want Japan to become a military state? Judging from their comments they do and if they do then they should be quickly voted out of office or forced to resign.

  • 2

    Piltdown Man

    Whatever the precise numbers — which we will never know — there is one thing that almost everybody agrees on, Japanese and non-Japanese people alike: the Japanese people through their military and government caused unimaginable suffering in China and beyond, and the people of Japan in turn endured unimaginable and unnecessary suffering.

    Nobody in Japan wants to endure such pain again, and the overwhelmingly vast majority in Japan do not want to inflict such pain again. That said, I sincerely hope the people of this country will work harder to speak out against Ishihara and Kawamura, and vote them out of office, to show the people of the world that the Japanese people truly aspire for Japan to be a peace-loving nation. The world needs to see Japan take action.

  • 1

    tmarie

    So now I have to support Kawamura and Ishihara and stand up for fellow Japanese.

    It is that kind of thinking that scares the crap out of me. Why do you "have" to support them? If someone of the same nationality does or says something stupid, I will call them on it, distance myself and make sure others don't think we all feel the same. Mind you, I was taught to think for myself and stand up for my beliefs...

  • -7

    JapanGal

    He is the best mayor in Japan. Do not focus on little things. Look at the big picture.

    There are plenty of photos on line showing the Japanese soldier helping to tidy up yards and such for the Chinese.

  • 0

    oginome

    So now I have to support Kawamura and Ishihara and stand up for fellow Japanese.

    It is that kind of thinking that scares the crap out of me. Why do you "have" to support them? If someone of the same nationality does or says something stupid, I will call them on it, distance myself and make sure others don't think we all feel the same. Mind you, I was taught to think for myself and stand up for my beliefs...

    @tmarie: Did YuriOtani say this and her post was deleted?

  • 0

    LoveNot

    what is happening to all the mayors of big Japanese cities? I read now that the mayor of Osaka wants to change the peace clause of constitution of Japan calling for referendum...

  • 0

    tmarie

    Ogi, it was j4p4nFTW and the post is still there. Go up a little bit on the page.

  • 1

    oginome

    Ogi, it was j4p4nFTW and the post is still there. Go up a little bit on the page.

    OK, thanks, the reason I asked is because I was shocked than even Yuri would say something like that and I'm glad she didn't. Standing by people who deny massacres is an act of evil.

  • 0

    tmarie

    Ogi, I think this may be the first time we agree on something. I look forward to doing this more often in the future.

    Yuri did make some other shockers though - like trying to claim she doesn't think about Okinawa and Hiroshima when she never stops bleating on about Okinawa.

  • 2

    oginome

    Ogi, I think this may be the first time we agree on something. I look forward to doing this more often in the future.

    Me too, when it comes to this issue, I'm with you all the way.

    Yuri did make some other shockers though - like trying to claim she doesn't think about Okinawa and Hiroshima when she never stops bleating on about Okinawa.

    Yes, what a joke. What annoys me is how she always detours and resorts to some emotional outburst when the facts are laid before her and she can't respond to them.

  • 2

    mikemcfly87

    He is the best mayor in Japan. Do not focus on little things. Look at the big picture.

    There are plenty of photos on line showing the Japanese soldier helping to tidy up yards and such for the Chinese

    @JapanGal

    Really... little things??? When the mayor of a country's capital makes ignorant remarks like this, these things don't stay little. This is absolutely ridculous. As far as those pictures, yea things like that got staged to use as propaganda and a "defense tool" to be used just as you are using them. Read up on the facts, this tragedy happened, and the more Japan denies it, the more credibility it loses.

  • 4

    tokyokawasaki

    Whats next? Will they tell us Fukushima never happened.

  • 0

    tmarie

    Ogi, two times on one thread!!

  • -4

    j4p4nFTW

    @bam_boo I think it's bad to stir up hornets nest. We know the truth about what happened. So for to keep good relations just stay quiet is best.

  • -7

    j4p4nFTW

    @tmarie

    It is that kind of thinking that scares the crap out of me. Why do you "have" to support them?

    It is the kizuna (a special bond between japanese peoples). It is the blood tie. You always defend your family,even to death.

  • 0

    Thomas Smith

    Wow.

  • 0

    EngrishNoSensei

    Not documented hey? It seems that this denial has been documented with the most accessible documented account. Check out the Wikipedia page for Nanking, Ishihara is bigger than Jesus now.

    As for the ignorant argument that you cant kill that many people, it would seem that Ishihara is equally ignorant on ancient history as he is on modern history. Otherwise he would be aware that 70,000 Romans were slaughtered in one day at Cannae with nothing but swords and spears.

  • 1

    Kris Allenation

    Typical Japanese politicians...always trying to change history's facts when it's convenient to their country's background. Would they be happy If the US politicians started declaring Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks never happened too?! or that the number of Japanese killed wasn't the number given because it'd be impossible for so many lives to be taken at once??? Insane...

  • 0

    sfjp330

    When average Chinese people think of Japan, first thing they talk about is Nanking that happened 75 years ago. You always have few people in Japan that will stir the memory. However, as a country, Japan has been peaceful for over 6 decades. Why don't average Chinese talk about Tibet's mass murder that is happening today? The trust between Japan and China is deceasing substantially and maybe that is good. Maybe deep inside J-politics, Japan wants it this way because none of the top goverment officials are not condeming Ishihara's statement . Maybe this is how you have to treat China in a future relations. Japan faces a debate on how best to respond to China’s aggressive dictation and growing military. Two thought come to mind in Japan are those seeking cooperative engagement with a soft hedge and those supporting competitive engagement with a hard hedge. Supporters of the first ideas believe that China wants a peaceful international relations for its own growth but are still wary of its internal politics and military modernization efforts and the lack of transparency in its military planning. Given the uncertainties regarding China’s intentions, they still want to keep the U.S.-Japan security alliance as the main focus of its regional security. On the other hand, those in support of a hard hedge against China remain worried that China will be less cooperative as its relative power increases. They point to China’s lack of international relations experience and military modernization as evidence of its growing threat and want to ensure that Japanese and American forces in the region can still out-muscle the Chinese military, and they support advanced upgrades to the Japanese military.

  • 2

    oginome

    I think it's bad to stir up hornets nest. We know the truth about what happened. So for to keep good relations just stay quiet is best.

    I know you're a troll, but I fear this thinking is widespread amongst those Japanese who mistakenly believe it is the best way forward to maintain security and peace when in fact 'staying quiet' in the face of these crimes puts Japan in danger, as it causes its relations with other countries to deteriorate further, countries which continue to (rightly) be suspicious of a former imperialist power which is unrepentant over its past crimes.

    When average Chinese people think of Japan, first thing they talk about is Nanking that happened 75 years ago. You always have few people in Japan that will stir the memory. However, as a country, Japan has been peaceful for over 6 decades. Why don't average Chinese talk about Tibet's mass murder that is happening today? The trust between Japan and China is deceasing substantially and maybe that is good. Maybe deep inside J-politics, Japan wants it this way because none of the top goverment officials are not condeming Ishihara's statement . Maybe this is how you have to treat China in a future relations. Japan faces a debate on how best to respond to China’s aggressive dictation and growing military. Two thought come to mind in Japan are those seeking cooperative engagement with a soft hedge and those supporting competitive engagement with a hard hedge. Supporters of the first ideas believe that China wants a peaceful international relations for its own growth but are still wary of its internal politics and military modernization efforts and the lack of transparency in its military planning. Given the uncertainties regarding China’s intentions, they still want to keep the U.S.-Japan security alliance as the main focus of its regional security. On the other hand, those in support of a hard hedge against China remain worried that China will be less cooperative as its relative power increases. They point to China’s lack of international relations experience and military modernization as evidence of its growing threat and want to ensure that Japanese and American forces in the region can still out-muscle the Chinese military, and they support advanced upgrades to the Japanese military.

    You're forgetting that the millions of innocent victims of Japan's racist murder empire in the 1930s and 40s deserve to be remembered and accounted simply for for their own sake, ESPECIALLY by the very country which perpetrated those crimes. Japan has no way out of this and the sheer audacity it has to try and wipe its hands off these atrocities are disgusting. The Nanking Massacre should not be framed into the context of any rivalry today, regardless of what different interest groups and politicans in either country have done, and those who put it into that picture so they can try and defend Japan not facing up to its crimes because of current security/rivalry issues with China are missing the point. Japan needs to account for and properly acknowledge these crimes irregardless or whether China is a threat or not. We all know China is a corrupt, murdering dicatorship which has suppressed so many, including the Tibetans who have suffered for generations now . But that doesn't absolve Japan of its own crimes. We hold Japan to a higher standard because it is a democratic country.

  • 0

    sfjp330

    oginomeFeb. 28, 2012 - 06:06AM JST. You're forgetting that the millions of innocent victims of Japan's racist murder empire in the 1930s and 40s deserve to be remembered and accounted simply for for their own sake, ESPECIALLY by the very country which perpetrated those crimes. Japan has no way out of this and the sheer audacity it has to try and wipe its hands off these atrocities are disgusting. The Nanking Massacre should not be framed into the context of any rivalry today, regardless of what different interest groups and politicans in either country have done, and those who put it into that picture so they can try and defend Japan not facing up to its crimes because of current security/rivalry issues with China are missing the point. Japan needs to account for and properly acknowledge these crimes irregardless or whether China is a threat or not.

    In 2005, Japanese PM Koizumi issued his apology to China to dampen tensions. Such national apologies have little or no worth and aren’t worth the hot air they generate. In fact, neither do they satisfy the Asian countries they are directed towards. This distracts them from the more important historiographical issues at stake on all sides. On the other hand, it is also highly inaccurate to portray the “apology diplomacy” of Japan as a story of repeatedly issuing unambiguous statements of admitted guilt and apology.

  • 2

    yasukuni

    Right wingers know that Japan did terrible things in China. They just don't admit it because they hate Chinese, and they don't want to admit to doing wrong. And they don't want to have to pay out any money.

    It's the same way Japanese companies will deny wrongdoing until the last possible moment. Then after denying something vehemently for weeks/months, they suddenly go on TV and cry and say how sorry they are.

    And unfortunately, some spouses are the same. Denying they said something they clearly did. It's a sad part of Japanese life. And interesting because when they catch someone else doing something wrong they are very big on attacking people for not showing "enough" contrition or repentance.

    One hint for life in Japan is to keep really good records and proof.

    But if Ishihara was shown all the proof in the world re Nanking, he would then just rave about how Chinese killed their own people. People like him can't seem to understand that you can love your country and realize that your country has done wrong at the same time.

  • 1

    Yubaru

    People like him can't seem to understand that you can love your country and realize that your country has done wrong at the same time.

    Sadly this is so true. Sometimes it takes a few hundred years for people to finally acknowledge this truth.

    China will only be satisfied with Japanese apologies when China rules Japan. AND Japanese like Ishihara will only be happy with China when Japan rules it....never happen but that's what it sounds like!

  • 0

    sfjp330

    oginomeFeb. 28, 2012 - 06:06AM JST. The Nanking Massacre should not be framed into the context of any rivalry today, regardless of what different interest groups and politicans in either country have done, and those who put it into that picture so they can try and defend Japan not facing up to its crimes because of current security/rivalry issues with China are missing the point. Japan needs to account for and properly acknowledge these crimes irregardless or whether China is a threat or not.

    Tell me what China wants? Japan PM apologized and China was a leading receipant of foreign aid from Japan in the 80's and 90's. Japan was one of the largest foreign aid donors in the world during the 80's and 90's. In 1991 Japan was the second largest foreign aid donor worldwide, behind the United States. The foreign aid program began in the 1960s out of the reparations payments Japan was obliged to pay to other Asian countries for war damage. Japan continued to concentrate its economic assistance in Asia with about two-thirds of total commitments in 1990. Even in 1990, China was one of the largest recipients of Japanese foreign aid with annual US$830 million dollars. Earlier in the 1980s, China had been the largest single recipient from Japan for many years. These large aid amounts made Japan the largest single source of development assistance for most Asian countries. For the ASEAN countries, Japan supplied about half of net ODA received in the 80's.

  • 0

    yessir

    Public idiocy is a major prerequisite to be a politician in all countries.

  • 1

    oginome

    In 2005, Japanese PM Koizumi issued his apology to China to dampen tensions. Such national apologies have little or no worth and aren’t worth the hot air they generate. In fact, neither do they satisfy the Asian countries they are directed towards. This distracts them from the more important historiographical issues at stake on all sides. On the other hand, it is also highly inaccurate to portray the “apology diplomacy” of Japan as a story of repeatedly issuing unambiguous statements of admitted guilt and apology.

    This 'apologies' lose all meaning when the same government which delivers them chooses to keep its own population in the dark regarding these very same war crimes, preferring instead to focus religiously on the atomic bombs and the other sufferings the Japanese endured while deliberately ignoring the millions ruthlessly murdered by the IJA. This national whitewashing and downplaying, which has gone on for decades now, has resulted in a population largely unaware of atrocities such as Nanking, in a culture where politicans and mayors can engage in massacre denial and face no rebukes or calls to be removed from power by the same electorate whose interests they were elected to represent, and in the countless others in government who continue to visit the Yasukuni Shrine every year and face no criticism or condemnation, but instead, approval from the public.

    The Nanking Massacre and the thousands who were murdered there deserve to be remembered for their own sake, and not have the memory of their suffering compromised just because relations happen to be difficult between Japan and China.

    Tell me what China wants? Japan PM apologized and China was a leading receipant of foreign aid from Japan in the 80's and 90's. Japan was one of the largest foreign aid donors in the world during the 80's and 90's. In 1991 Japan was the second largest foreign aid donor worldwide, behind the United States. The foreign aid program began in the 1960s out of the reparations payments Japan was obliged to pay to other Asian countries for war damage. Japan continued to concentrate its economic assistance in Asia with about two-thirds of total commitments in 1990. Even in 1990, China was one of the largest recipients of Japanese foreign aid with annual US$830 million dollars. Earlier in the 1980s, China had been the largest single recipient from Japan for many years. These large aid amounts made Japan the largest single source of development assistance for most Asian countries. For the ASEAN countries, Japan supplied about half of net ODA received in the 80's.

    This is not about China wants, but what JAPAN needs to do for ITSELF to show it has come to terms with the past and is truly sorry for the millions it murdered. Apologies and aid and economic assistance don't change the fact that Japan hasn't faced up to its past and it continues to desecrate the victims of its racist murder empire every time a new censored textbook is released, in not educating its citizens on what happened and when politicans engage in this kind of evil denial and don't lose their jobs, but instead get re-elected, like in Ishihara's case. Why don't people understand this?

  • 0

    sfjp330

    oginomeFeb. 28, 2012 - 08:03AM JST. This is not about China wants, but what JAPAN needs to do for ITSELF to show it has come to terms with the past and is truly sorry for the millions it murdered. Apologies and aid and economic assistance don't change the fact.

    If this is more important to China , then China should've refused the billions in foreign aid over 3 decades and return the money until proper apology and it has come to terms. China should not accept the money until then. This is proper step, don't you think?

  • -1

    sfjp330

    oginomeFeb. 28, 2012 - 08:03AM JST. This 'apologies' lose all meaning when the same government which delivers them chooses to keep its own population in the dark regarding these very same war crimes, preferring instead to focus religiously on the atomic bombs and the other sufferings the Japanese endured while deliberately ignoring the millions ruthlessly murdered by the IJA. This national whitewashing and downplaying, which has gone on for decades now, has resulted in a population largely unaware of atrocities such as Nanking,

    Maybe this is the best the J-goverment can do with their internation political problem. Most likely, they cannot due any more then what has been done. Japanese people don't live in a dark ages. Anybody can get information regarding the Nanking or Mao's massacure. What is China going to do about it if they don't get proper apology? Break off the diplomatic relations and stop the trade? Will that be better for you?

  • 0

    oginome

    If this is more important to China , then China should've refused the billions in foreign aid over 3 decades and return the money until proper apology and it has come to terms. China should not accept the money until then. This is proper step, don't you think?

    When are you going to get it? China is a dicatorship and its word is not reliable. The Chinese government uses Nanking for its own propaganda purposes. But this still doesn't change the face that Japan murdered millions of Chinese and does not face up to it.These murders and massacres were Japan's doing and Japan's alone and it atones for the past by finally facing up to it. It has nothing to do with what China wants today and it is entirely possible for China to accept billions in aid and yet for millions to still be whitewashed by history.

    Maybe this is the best the J-goverment can do with their internation political problem. Most likely, they cannot due any more then what has been done. Japanese people don't live in a dark ages. Anybody can get information regarding the Nanking or Mao's massacure. What is China going to do about it if they don't get proper apology? Break off the diplomatic relations and stop the trade? Will that be better for you?

    No, the best the J-government can do is face up to its own past. It's the height of hypocrisy and denial to teach about Nagasaki and Hiroshima in school while completely ignore Nanking. Read my post again and again, because it's clear this isn't sinking in. This was Japan's war crime and it needs to face up to it, because it came from the Japan. How would Japan taking ownership of its past and finally showing true remorse cause a 'break off in diplomatic' relations? Did you actually read my post?

  • 0

    Ben_Jackinoff

    Again, there is no doubt that now Japan is a peaceful country and a good Asian neighbor and China is the country to be worried about. However, saying these things was stupid. This is especially true when considering when and to whom they were said and under what circumstances they were said. Is it so much to ask that politicians think before they talk?

  • 0

    peanut666

    Yes, but bowing down to China's altered version of history is like accepting lies about the internment camps in America from the American government.

  • 1

    sfjp330

    oginomeFeb. 28, 2012 - 08:43AM JST. No, the best the J-government can do is face up to its own past.

    Does the J-government have a resposiblity to, what, create a fact-straightening committee that will tell everyone what really happened, on prime-time TV? Should the government make a point of approving only books that make explicit mention of Rape of Nanking? Maybe. But how likely is it? How likely is something as radical as J-government presenting an admission of horrendous acts by Japanese military personnel, even if it was over 75 years ago? This'll be a thorn in the side of happy relations between Japan and it's neighbors for centuries, sadly.

    In China, propaganda, or news, leads people to views that differ from those in the U.S. or Japan, because people get fed different propaganda. One example is the Dalai Lama. In the U.S. he is regarded as a holy refugee who should be respected if not revered. In China, he is thought of as a murderer because he directed the killing of PLA infantry when they moved in on Tibet. I don't want to take this conversation in another direction, but this indicates how differently people can interpret the same events.

    The Rape of Nanking will probably not be taught in schools in Japan for a while. An education revolution will not happen without a serious J-goverment shift. Anything short of an education revolution would not be enough for the "truth." J-goverment won't risk weakening their stance without perceived need.

  • -1

    sfjp330

    Although I cannot deny the brutality of the event, I cannot accept the figure put forth by China when evidence suggests otherwise. Many historians have estimated that the overall death toll is in between 20,000 and 300,000, yet China sticks with the number 300,000 despite lack of evidence that support this high figure. Have you considered that China sticks to this number because it has become a political symbol or metaphor? Additionally, the number could be used to give off the impression that the massacre of Nanking was a far worse event than the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

  • -1

    uchina58

    OMG!!! Mr Ishihara are you serious??? You just won a lier contest . CONGRATULATION!! ashoe

  • -1

    oginome

    Does the J-government have a resposiblity to, what, create a fact-straightening committee that will tell everyone what really happened, on prime-time TV? Should the government make a point of approving only books that make explicit mention of Rape of Nanking? Maybe. But how likely is it? How likely is something as radical as J-government presenting an admission of horrendous acts by Japanese military personnel, even if it was over 75 years ago? This'll be a thorn in the side of happy relations between Japan and it's neighbors for centuries, sadly.

    Of course the J-Government has a responsibilty to set in place policies and programs so its populace can finally be educated about Japan's past! You've correctly identified this shameful nationwide denial as a 'thorn in the side of happy relations'. And as long as this whitewashing continues, this thorn will persist. If Japan is going to go keep going down this negationist route, they'd at least better apply the same standards to the suffering endured by the Japanese too, but no, the bombings in Nagasaki and Hiroshima continue to be discussed and treated with reverance. And please 'approving only books that make explicit mention of Rape of Nanking'. Um, no, stopping the censoring of school textbooks to actual INFORM and EDUCATE the public about Nanking does not mean every book that gets released would mention Nanking. Is every German book about Auschwitz? The corrupt government shouldn't be excused and let off the hook for their refusal to deal with such an important part of Japan's history but castigated and criticised. The likelihood of Japan facing up to its past isn't what's being discussed here, but the immorality of its current policy.

    In China, propaganda, or news, leads people to views that differ from those in the U.S. or Japan, because people get fed different propaganda. One example is the Dalai Lama. In the U.S. he is regarded as a holy refugee who should be respected if not revered. In China, he is thought of as a murderer because he directed the killing of PLA infantry when they moved in on Tibet. I don't want to take this conversation in another direction, but this indicates how differently people can interpret the same events.

    Sorry, bayoneting pregnant women and brutally murdering and torturing innocent civilians, not to mention performing obscene medical experiments can only be interpreted one way, no matter what side you're on.

    The Rape of Nanking will probably not be taught in schools in Japan for a while. An education revolution will not happen without a serious J-goverment shift. Anything short of an education revolution would not be enough for the "truth." J-goverment won't risk weakening their stance without perceived need.

    Japan is a democracy and is considered to nowadays be a world leader in peace and pacifism. It has a moral duty as a democracy to teach the truth of what happened and take OWNERSHIP of the millions who died in anguish and despair because of its brutal, racist, and insane murder policies in the 1930s and 40s. Stance shouldn't come into it, but like you correctly perceived, for the J-Government, filled as it is with racists and right wingers, this 'stance' is more important than honouring the millions that their nation murdered.

    Although I cannot deny the brutality of the event, I cannot accept the figure put forth by China when evidence suggests otherwise. Many historians have estimated that the overall death toll is in between 20,000 and 300,000, yet China sticks with the number 300,000 despite lack of evidence that support this high figure. Have you considered that China sticks to this number because it has become a political symbol or metaphor? Additionally, the number could be used to give off the impression that the massacre of Nanking was a far worse event than the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    The numbers are up for debate, but like you said, the brutality of the the Nanking massacre is not, and whether the number is 300,000 or 20,000, that's still tens of thousands who were still murdered brutally and savagely by the Japanese army. And China is not unique in sticking to a particular number. 6 million has become the 'metaphor' number for the Jewish Holocaust, yet historians put the figure at around 4-5 million. The massacre at Nanking was an act of unprovoked aggression by a country which instigated war and arrogantly believed China was theirs for the taking, whereas the atomic bombs came from an enemy country which Japan attacked first. I believe the A-Bombs were abominable, but Hiroshima and Nagasaki are today discussed and remembered in both the country which bore the suffering from the A-Bombs (Japan) and the country which dropped the bombs (America), whereas Japan won't do the same and face up to its own atrocities such as the Nanking Massacre. Imagine if any American politican tried to deny Nagasaki?

  • 1

    GDemmons

    China and Japan are both products of illiterates who could not understand what the Analectics of Confucious were actually about. China spends a lot of time being critical of Japan in order to deflect from its own atrocious policies and behaviors, old and current. The people of Tokyo elect this joker because they are slaves who are disgruntled, over-worked, unable to raise their families properly, and are addicted to energy drinks and online shopping. When they hear someone as dumb as Ishihara puking his rhetoric, it allows them to vent, because they are too spineless to do it themselves.

  • -2

    peanut666

    I think an apology has already been made nationally. On August 15, 1995, the fiftieth anniversary of the Surrender of Japan, the Japanese prime minister Tomiichi Murayama gave the first clear and formal apology for Japanese actions during the war. He apologized for Japan's wrongful aggression and the great suffering that it inflicted in Asia. He offered his heartfelt apology to all survivors and to the relatives and friends of the victims. That day, the prime minister and the Japanese Emperor Akihito pronounced statements of mourning at Tokyo's Nippon Budokan. The emperor offered his condolences and expressed the hope that such atrocities would never be repeated.

    At the end of WWII The International Military Tribunal for the Far East was convened on April 29, 1946, On November 12, 1948, Matsui and Hirota, along with five other convicted Class-A war criminals, were sentenced to death by hanging. Eighteen others received lesser sentences. These tribunal brought justice and legal compensation to war time atrocities.

    Everyone does not have to agree with the numbers that China has given, everyone doesn't have to believe that Nanjing occurred according to Chinese zealots. That's what a democracy is all about. If Ishihara and Kawamura don't believe in the Chinese revisionist view of history, they have a right to disagree.

    However I don't believe this is a correct way of behavior. Rather than politically forcing someone to do something that may or may not be historically valid, they should try and cooperate with each other. Nagoya is the sister city of Nanjing. Japan and China should cooperate together and investigate, research, and develop a version of history that both sides agree on. Once this is done, then the apologies will happen.

  • 0

    Joseph Garrett Baxter

    I would like to get the facts. The 300,000 number is pulled out of the air and does not make sense. The Chinese were actually the ones who killed most of their people through Mao who is estimated to have killed 70 million. Mao was very supportive of what the Japanese were doing since it helped his strategy to cause more disorder and to team up with the Russians. The Chinese never look at their own back yard to see the truth. Just because a foreign country kills a few hundred thousand people as compared to the numbers they killed themselves just seems like a way to find a scape goat. Mao's soldiers raped many women. He makes Hitler look like an angel.

    Back in those days of wild war everyone was crazy and there were no international standards. War is war and it is dirty so for people to complain about the effects of war is like diabetics complaining that there sugar levels are rising after eating ice cream.

    War is bad and the past is the past but these old geezers can't seen to live in the moment. Ishihara is definitely deluded but so is China. Even USA is screwed up in recent war atrocities.

  • 0

    Joseph Garrett Baxter

    peanut666's comment was right on the mark. Ishihara does not have to agree and he gets a kick out of these non-politically correct views and he deserves kudos to stick to his guns even though it is distorted view. It is a better situation than some other geezer just following protocol. At least Ishihara is human and not influenced by what people say about him or maybe that is why he is popular. It sure is a good way to get famous though most would be brought down in flames if this happened in USA which is less tolerant of these non-politically correct views.

    Another point about the great Mao who is so highly revered. He not only had women raped but also stuck burning rods inside their vagina. Death by itself was not good enough for him. He also wanted to set off a nuke in China to kill more people or start a world nuclear crisis so that he could get into power more quickly. There is no person in the history of man as deplorable as this man.

    Japan indirectly helped Mao get into power since he could concentrate his forces on other parts of China while the China he was fighting against was tied up with Japan. Actually China should issue an apology and thank Japan for the massacre of Nanjing since they are ao happy that Mao came to power. Funny isn't it if the cards are turned?

    • Moderator

      Readers, please stay on topic. Mao is not relevant to this discussion.

  • 1

    oginome

    Neither of you get it. The issue here isn't apologising to China but Japan, as a democratic country, not taking ownership of the millions it murdered for itself.

  • 2

    Zen student

    Welcome to Japan. Our Prime Minister is a loach and our ministers are at best buffoons. I'm sick and tired of history revisionists like Ishihara who continue to make inflammatory comments. It is obvious that Japan and China are going to need each other economically in future and when they make comments like this, they are just shooting themselves in the foot with a shotgun. Wouldn't it be great if they introduced a 'shitsugen-zei' (faux pas/gaffe tax) for politicians? They should be taxed for every comment they make that creates a warranted backlash. Then, they might think before they speak a bit more.

  • -2

    bookowls

    Ishihara doing what he does best - antagonism!

  • 1

    tkoind2

    Just when you thought Ishihara could not push the boundaries of political stupidity any further, he once again raises the bar to Guiness Book of World Records levels of idiocy.

    Known to anyone paying attention as a right wing fascist, racialist and would be dictator of Tokyo, this latest statement simply adds one more example to an epic list of bone headed statements reflecting this politicians real colors.

    Had this "gentleman" spent a little less time ripping off Tokyo with his banking initiatives and a little more time reading real history, he might have spared us such an insipid remark. But sadly the plunding of Tokyo is indeed a full time job for he and his cronies so there was little time to bone up on history.

    One must wonder how a man so elitist and anti-everyone who isn't Japanese, could find merit in the Olympics or in the desire to bring them to Tokyo. The only obvious answer must be that he sees it as yet another opportunity to enrich himself and his buddies at the expense of the rest of us. At least he is consistent in his capacity to thieve from the people of Tokyo. Too bad the people of Tokyo are not clued in enough to send him packing.

  • -2

    CUBANO

    I remember an American ex-pow in a Japanese camp (of river Kwai fame) who said in an interview that the Japanese officers in their camp would mount on horses and move through a group of POW and kill them with swords in an orgy of killings. I think that if the Japanese people do not learn and know their horrible past history they will repeat it in the future.

  • -1

    peanut666

    Japan does take responsibility for it's actions in WWII. An apology has already been made nationally. On August 15, 1995, the fiftieth anniversary of the Surrender of Japan, the Japanese prime minister Tomiichi Murayama gave the first clear and formal apology for Japanese actions during the war. He apologized for Japan's wrongful aggression and the great suffering that it inflicted in Asia. He offered his heartfelt apology to all survivors and to the relatives and friends of the victims. That day, the prime minister and the Japanese Emperor Akihito pronounced statements of mourning at Tokyo's Nippon Budokan. The emperor offered his condolences and expressed the hope that such atrocities would never be repeated. Japan is fully aware of the war atrocities it has committed during WWII and has learned from it.

    The Major of Nagoya and Governor Ishihara have every democratic right not to agree with the fabricated version of history China is presenting. They will humbly bow and apologize if the historic data was truthful and accurate. However it is clear that this is a made up number. Don't expect the Major and the Governor to apologize for something they believe is fabricated. Why don't people understand this?

    If Japan and China are going to resolve this problem, they need to work together and formulate a version of history that is both factually accurate and satisfies both sides. Until this happens, the Mayor and the Governor have every right to question and deny any political fabrication from China.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    200,000 (Population estimate in Nanking at the time Japanese Troops arrived)

    250,000 (Population estimate in Nanking a mere one month after the Japanese arrival)

    China claims 300,000 deaths.

    In other words, 350,000 civilians decided to purposely walk into a war zone. One wonders why they fled from Nanking in the first place.

    Greatest Mystery of Mankind.

  • -2

    oginome

    Japan does take responsibility for it's actions in WWII.

    No peanut, you keep not understanding. Japan definitely does not take REAL responsibilty. This apology to China is ruined when Japan decides not teach its own population about these atrocities and creates a climate where massacre and atrocity denial is disturbingly mainstream, where mayors and politicans can deny the or downplay the countless murdered and not face any criticism from the public who elected them and whose interests they are supposed to represent. Why is this so incredibly hard for you to fathom? Let's see the turn in Yasukuni again this year - a yearly reminder of the willfull ignorance Japan has plunged itself into - and proof of lack of remorse for the million murdered at a human leve, nevermind any high handed apologies delivered to China.

  • -1

    SunnysideUp

    Japan can keep its younger generation from learning of its brutal past by falsifying and twisting historical facts in school textbooks, but the rest of the world will always know the truth...

  • 1

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    YAWN.

  • -2

    yasukuni

    "Just when you thought Ishihara could not push the boundaries of political stupidity any further,..."

    On the other hand, he's still the Mayor. So maybe he can teach YOU about politics.

  • -2

    bello420

    The J government needs to atone fore Japan's military atrocities during the war. If they ever want to be accepted as a real partner with the big players in the world, they should do so, instead of hiding it from their people. This creates a society who is totally ignorant and indifferent to the facts! These same people go about all their lives thinking how wonderful Japan is and how truly elevated they are. It's all lies and omissions on part of the J-gov.My wife is Japanese, I have a daughter here and she is in every sense a typical Japanese teenager, attends the local schools, and she is learning all the lies the education system here dishes out. I'm about to take her back to the US with me, because as much as I love Japan.... it's highly hypocritical stance on the war and current geopolitical views, along with the Japanese thinking they're the best, and everytthing Japanese is best, it's starting to turn me off. People like Ishihara and others who think the same way should be locked up. The only reason Japan is what is today is because the US has protected it since the surrender. Other wise this could be a Chinese province by now.

  • -2

    oginome

    @bello420, I agree with most of your post, but is it really necessary to take your daughter 'back to the US' because the education system isn't teaching her the facts? Surely you yourself can teach her what Japan did during the war. And in my opinion, the American education system and culture also elevates America and cultivates a simliar ethnocentric view to what Japan does. If your daughter is happy in Japan, then is it really fair to uproot her and take her to another country, where she'll have to adapt hugely to another culture and another way of life, because the Japanese education system didn't teach her about Nanking? You can tell her all about what really happened and what Japanese education officials try so hard to obscure without even leaving your home. Of course, it's up to you what to do in the end, but I just think it's a little extreme to forsake Japan entirely.

  • -2

    peanut666

    Japan has apologized. Over and over again. On August 15, 1995, the fiftieth anniversary of the Surrender of Japan, the Japanese prime minister Tomiichi Murayama gave the first clear and formal apology for Japanese actions during the war. He apologized for Japan's wrongful aggression and the great suffering that it inflicted in Asia. He offered his heartfelt apology to all survivors and to the relatives and friends of the victims. That day, the prime minister and the Japanese Emperor Akihito pronounced statements of mourning at Tokyo's Nippon Budokan. The emperor offered his condolences and expressed the hope that such atrocities would never be repeated.

    At the end of WWII The International Military Tribunal for the Far East was convened on April 29, 1946, On November 12, 1948, Matsui and Hirota, along with five other convicted Class-A war criminals, were sentenced to death by hanging. Eighteen others received lesser sentences. These tribunal brought justice and legal compensation to war time atrocities.

    Everyone does not have to agree with the numbers that China has given, everyone doesn't have to believe that Nanjing occurred according to Chinese zealots. That's what a democracy is all about. If Ishihara and Kawamura don't believe in the Chinese revisionist view of history, they have a right to disagree.

    Apologies will be given to FACTUAL history where the number of victims are correct, but no one is going to apologize to fabricated history.

    Nagoya is the sister city of Nanjing. Japan and China should cooperate together and investigate, research, and develop a version of history that both sides agree on. Once this is done, then the apologies will happen.

  • -2

    ganbarenihon

    Well we all know china can easily make fake things. let's see.. Fake Disneyland, dangerous cheap Shinkansen which they said they invented and that bullet trains were invented by china but later had an accident when it barely started running and then blamed Japan for it (that made me laugh but RIP people), Chinese people I met easily lied to me and other people (ex bf was Chinese too) and just wanted to use me or others for perverted stuff, and yeah, they easily make up stories. You guys do know china does NOT have a history of what... 4000 years or so like they say? Because "china" never really existed until a couple hundred years ago or whatev because the so called "china" was still invading countries and slaughtering many innocent people as well (and still doing it now to Bhutan and soon going to reach India and invade them too) and now they have what is called "china". Anyway, you guys can think I'm stupid, crazy, whatever, THANK YOU but I believe my grandfather's words and he went to china but only to talk to the highest rank dude. Nanking massacre never really happened. It is true Japan did occupy china but they didn't kill anyone unless they were a high class criminal. I mean northern Chinese people knew Japan didn't kill anyone (although most recited must be erased by now) and if it did happen, it was Korean dressed up in Japanese clothing because 1, Japan hired Korean people into the army 2, koreans are pretty good at attacking things at once (hence the Vietnam massacres and rape). Anyway how come many countries who were being riled by Japan are so grateful to us? and no, china is not special, so why would we "kill" innocent people only in china? (or Korea if you want to add). also, there were still many small wars in china during that time so since Japan was occupying that time, it was easy to just bury the body or whatever and make up a story saying Japan did it. It's pretty simple... In a way. There are coroners from Japan who are willing to check the bodies that are dead in the museum and stuff but china forbids it. yeah maybe they might be worried we might do something to it, but still, them not letting us examine them is super suspicious. I remember that when china had a big earthquake (Sichuan quake I think) Japan offered to help but china rejected and said, "No, it is fine. If you help us it would be weird since we are supposed to hate you." something like that.... I will find that source and post it up on here. Right now, china's economy is really bad but to prevent problems, They blame Japan and try to have everyone focus on the Senkaku islands so they won't have to deal with Chinese hating on them (I mean the communist party and folks). anyway, you guys can believe in whatever you want, but if you are supporting Japan because of anime or whatever, at least show some respect and stop blaming Japan for things and try to be open minded and think about what other people say instead of sticking to one conclusion that Japan did this or that, period. Its rude and it's not like china, Korea, USA, etc killed people in other countries.... Sheesh. and get ready for the invasion of china coming up~ wish all you Japanese haters or whatever become happy being treated terribly like Chinese. (and no I don't hate Chinese. Just hate how they believe their things and act)

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