Japan, Australia agree to work out diplomatic solution to whaling dispute

Thursday 08th May, 11:59 PM JST

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cleo at 10:13 AM JST - 14th May

ihope2 -

tako10 specified, in its own undisputed territory/EEZ.

And you agree. So when did the Antarctic Whale Sanctuary become Japan's own undisputed territory?
nigelboy at 10:46 AM JST - 14th May

Antarctic Whale Sanctuary conflicts with the Antartic Treaty System which Australia is a signatory of.

Article 4 - does not recognize, dispute, or establish territorial sovereignty claims and no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force;
ihope2eatwhales at 11:30 AM JST - 14th May

cleo, I did not claim that the Antarctic Ocean is Japan's territory. If you are confused, please read carefully my previous comment to tako10.
cleo at 11:51 AM JST - 14th May

ihope2 -

You agreed with tako10 that there's no problem in a country taking non-endangered resources in its own undisputed territory/EEZ. As you say, the Antarctic Ocean is **not **Japan's territory or EEZ. So what are they doing taking whales there?

And please don't say 'scientific research'.
tako10 at 12:06 PM JST - 14th May

I rather want to see Australia banning all types of fishing and whaling in Antarctica, and Japan do the same in Okinotorishima.
ihope2eatwhales at 12:08 PM JST - 14th May

cleo, I wonder if you are interested in having a discussion, or prefer to have an argument. I will be patient and explain to you that I agree with tako10 regarding the domestic issue, and what I added was that I think regarding high seas issues the same rule should apply. In fact, the same rule does apply, although it isn't being followed properly by some. Whether tako10 agrees or not, I do not know. I presume that you do not agree, for some reason.
tclh at 12:28 PM JST - 14th May

Two things:1-New Zealand drops out from joining Australia to proscute Japan for whaling in Antartica at an International Court,reason given:too expensive.2-Numbers of whale-sightings in Australian East coast has increased quadrupple(4 fold) in the last decade.May be whale numbers is on the way of recovery,thanks to environmental conservation effort of Australia and others.
ihope2eatwhales at 12:54 PM JST - 14th May

tclh, Almost all species of whale have been protected from commercial hunting for more than 40 years. Whale numbers naturally increase under such circumstances, it is a very good thing. Once they recover enough, hunting will start again (maybe not in Australia's waters, but we can not tell).

As one who hopes to eat whales, I would be most upset if overhunting such as occured in the past when many nations were catching whales for their oil, were permitted to happen again.
imacat at 10:47 PM JST - 14th May

I have no concern about this island. You can have this island if you like

Ah, I see. You misunderstood the point I was making.

I don't want to "have" this island.

I asked Japanese people to imagine how they would feel if a huge fleet of Australian ships sailed up to the seas around Okinotorishima to grab marine creatures, in order to "preserve their barbecue culture".

As both you and I know, the Japanese government would send planes and ships to kick them out.

If you can imagine this scenario then you can start to understand how people in other countries feel about Japan's Victorian-era style expeditions to the Antarctic.

I do not know their stance, other than what you claim they say, but I am quite familiar with organizations that support whaling.

I guess you need to read more about the whaling issue.

"The Association to Preserve Japan's Whaling Tradition and Food Culture" is very important in Japan. Even Japan's representative to the IWC makes a speech at their annual dinner every year! I am suprised that you don't know of them.

Their name explains perfectly what their organization is all about... and where do they want to grab whales? In the Antarctic. They need them to preserve Japan's "food culture".

No such group that I know of has a strong view on Antarctic whales specifically in a cultural context

"The Association to Preserve Japan's Whaling Tradition and Food Culture" has very strong views on how Japan needs Antarctic whales to preserve Japan's oh-so-important food culture.
imacat at 10:50 PM JST - 14th May

@Nigelboy

Antarctic Whale Sanctuary conflicts with the Antartic Treaty System which Australia is a signatory of. Article 4 - does not recognize, dispute, or establish territorial sovereignty claims and no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force;

It's not quite so clear cut. Have a look at this information about the Ozzies claim to an EEZ off the AAT:

Those in favour of allowing claims to maritime zones base their position on a number of arguments. However, the common theme is that there is a fundamental difference in nature between a claim to territorial sovereignty and a claim to a maritime zone. First, the wording of article 4 appears to limit the prohibition on new or enlarged claims to the continent " as indicated by the reference to "territorial sovereignty". Leaving aside the issue of the existence of a "territorial sea" under international law, the usual understanding of "territory" relates to land rather than the ocean.

Here's the link:

http://austlii.law.uts.edu.au/nz/journals/VUWLRev/2005/34.html

It's a very complicated issue. No doubt Australia's claim is controversial, much in the same way that Japan's claim to a massive EEZ around Okinotorishima is controversial.
tako10 at 02:57 AM JST - 15th May

I do not care how Australian feel about Japan's whaling at all. The victims are fish, whales, and other ocean creatures killed by the Japanese and the Australians. I guess either the Japanese or the Australians are the world champion of killing ocean animals on per capita basis. Please stop playing victims when you are aggressors - both Australians and Japanese.
ihope2eatwhales at 10:03 AM JST - 15th May

imacat,

I understand the point you wish to make. However Antarctic waters are internationally regarded as international waters. I believe Australia will not attack Japan in these waters because it recognises the view of the international community. I do not know about the situation with Okitorishima well, but I imagine if similarly the international community did not recognise Japan's claims over these waters, Japan would similarly not attack any foreign vessel conducting otherwise legal activities within them.

As such, I fully expect and hope for Japan and other nations such as South Korea in the future to commercially utilise the abundance of whale resources in the Antarctic.

I guess you need to read more about the whaling issue.

I think you should to double check your information, before suggesting such things to others. The Association you speak of has no homepage, unlike many well-known whaling organizations in Japan.

Further, there is no mention of Antarctic whales in either of these Japanese pages about their meeting: http://www.e-kujira.or.jp/topic/coo/06/0529/index.html http://www.e-kujira.or.jp/topic/coo/05/0607/index.html

where do they want to grab whales? In the Antarctic. They need them to preserve Japan's "food culture".

This is clearly your own supposition. You have jumped to this conclusion by yourself. You must make more effort to correctly understand we who hope to eat whales if you wish to have fruitful discussion with us.

tako10, killing and eating ocean animals makes one an "aggressor"?
imacat at 01:04 AM JST - 16th May

However Antarctic waters are internationally regarded as international waters.

That's not correct. Australia has a claimed EEZ off the AAT. It's a contentious claim of course. Japan should remember that when it send huge fleets of ships to grab whales in the Antarctic.

Or maybe Japan can't understand the feelings of people in other countries and is happy to selfishly and arrogantly impose its culture and values on the Antarctic.

but I imagine if similarly the international community did not recognise Japan's claims over these waters...

The international community do not all recognise Japan's claim to an EEZ there. Some object... China for example.

The Association you speak of has no homepage, unlike many well-known whaling organizations in Japan. Further, there is no mention of Antarctic whales in either of these Japanese pages about their meeting

That's very amusing!

So you believe the "Association to Preserve Japan's Whaling Tradition and Food Culture" is only concerned with whales in the seas around Japan?

Don't be ridiculous.

May I ask... does the whale meat they serve up at their annual meeting exclude Antarctic whale meat?

Of course it doesn't. They are serving up Antarctic whale.

This organization (which is publicly supported by the Japanese government) wants to use Antarctic whales to preserve Japan's "food culture". What an amazing group of people!! They've stretched their "food culture" to the other side of the globe! So how about if Australian people stretched their "barbecue culture" to areas that Japan considers its own backyard?

You must make more effort to correctly understand we who hope to eat whales if you wish to have fruitful discussion with us.

I think you need to make more effort. You didn't even know that "Association to Preserve Japan's Whaling Tradition and Food Culture" existed.
ihope2eatwhales at 10:50 AM JST - 16th May

So you believe the "Association to Preserve Japan's Whaling Tradition and Food Culture" is only concerned with whales in the seas around Japan?

So far as I can tell, they are interested in cultural issues, as opposed to the geo-political issues that you seem to be obsessed with. What is most important for whale cuisine culture, is whale meat.

Don't be ridiculous.

I do not think I am being ridiculous, but I do think you are ridiculous.

I think you need to make more effort. You didn't even know that "Association to Preserve Japan's Whaling Tradition and Food Culture" existed.

I do not think it is an "Association", I think it is just an annual meeting.

I recognise now that you are keen only on insisting your own way of thinking. Fruitful discussion is not possible.
nigelboy at 02:00 PM JST - 20th May

The international community do not all recognise Japan's claim to an EEZ there. Some object... China for example.

And you are aware that China is using the same excuse to occupy various reefs in South China Sea right? That's China for ya.