Japan moves closer to TPP pact despite concerns

Politics Feb. 27, 2013 - 06:00AM JST ( 32 )

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32 Comments

5

wtfjapanFeb. 26, 2013 - 03:21PM JST

good luck Japan convincing all the TPP member that your agriculture is unique to Japan and should be protected at all costs. LOL
-10

BertieWoosterFeb. 26, 2013 - 03:34PM JST

The TPP is very bad news.

Abe seems bent on banging the nails down on Japan's coffin.
6

YubaruFeb. 27, 2013 - 08:38AM JST

Seems that there are people here too that totally misunderstand the TPP and the overwhelming benefits it would bring to everyone in Japan.

If the agriculture folks are so worried, maybe it's time they get into the 21 Century and realize that they only survive because of government subsidises, meaning that we the average consumer are paying double or more for the product we are purchasing. Our taxes then the bill at the checkout.
-4

issa1Feb. 27, 2013 - 08:38AM JST

I hope japan stay away from TPP. Do not want to eat transgenic junk food by monsanto.

Canada triggered the ISD mechanism 29 against the United States. Lost all 29 times.

Mexico triggered the ISD mechanism 19 against the United States .Lost all 19 times.

United States was accused of not follow the rules 19 times the rules of NAFTA but .... won the 19 disputes.

This is a game with marked cards!
-1

cleoFeb. 27, 2013 - 08:46AM JST

Does TPP mean imported goods don't need to observe domestic labelling laws? For instance, could our food suddenly be full of GMO rubbish and other additives without the shopper being any the wiser?
1

samwattersFeb. 27, 2013 - 08:47AM JST

@Yubaru. I don't know if you're aware of it but the US farmer receives billions of dollars in farm subsidies every year and politicians who so much as comment against face a difficult time being re-elected. I think the TPP has some benefit but there are also pitfalls that must be considered.
9

JeffLeeFeb. 27, 2013 - 08:52AM JST

Do not want to eat transgenic junk food by monsanto.

Don't worry. You will always have your Nissin Cup Noodles, with their heaps of Ajinomoto and other powdered chemicals.
4

MoonrakerFeb. 27, 2013 - 09:20AM JST

@ Cleo.

Does TPP mean imported goods don't need to observe domestic labelling laws?

You mean because they are so strict?

You already have "GMO rubbish" and other additives that need not be labelled strictly.
5

AyeshaFeb. 27, 2013 - 09:57AM JST

Had a chuckle where it said domestic laws "protect" consumers.
4

YubaruFeb. 27, 2013 - 10:09AM JST

I don't know if you're aware of it but the US farmer receives billions of dollars in farm subsidies

SUre I am aware of it, and while American farmers feed a hell of a lot of people around the world, all I hear from Japanese farmers is that they can't deal with the competition of cheaper products from abroad. If the TPP goes through (hopefully) all tariffs will be dropped between the countries and people will have more (and cheaper) options or choices to choose from. And that isnt just agriculture products either.

I hope japan stay away from TPP. Do not want to eat transgenic junk food by monsanto.

This is where the ignorance comes in. TPP is not going to make you purchase anything you don't want. It is however going to give people options. If you want higher priced Japanese rice, go for it. If you want cheaper, and by perception in Japan, lower value imports, that's fine too.

We are held hostage to a relatively small group of producers and over pay 10 times or higher for products that are sometimes at best average. But because it's produced in Japan people (Japanese) like to think it's the "best". Sometimes it's not, sometimes it is, but I want the choice.
0

2020hindsightsFeb. 27, 2013 - 10:25AM JST

Abe, addressing reporters after his talks with Obama, suggested that Japan could still achieve his party’s campaign promise to spare sectors during the course of negotiations.

It can't. So not any closer at all actually.
-2

ProbieFeb. 27, 2013 - 10:50AM JST

I have no idea why some people in power here think that protecting the already heavily-subsidised livlihood of about 2000 rice farmers is more important than people being able to buy cheaper goods. Since they're putting up consumer tax, you'd think they'd want people buying more stuff.
-1

falseflagsteveFeb. 27, 2013 - 11:09AM JST

@Probie, You have no idea because you do not understand the scale of rice farming in Japan. There are millions of Japanese whose main income is from rice production NOT 2,000! The amount the farmers on average receive in subsidy is highly exagerrated for the most part. Seems like many confuse tariffs on imported rice with subsidies to farmers.

TPP is not about cheaper goods, it is about control of goods, lowering of food standards, less affordable varieties and farming can only often survive by employing illegal immigrants paid peanuts. One of the biggest pushers of TPP is Monsanto and i think that says it all really.
-2

ProbieFeb. 27, 2013 - 11:24AM JST

Seems like many confuse tariffs on imported rice with subsidies to farmers.

No. I'm not confusing them at all.

The farmers are subsidised; and imported rice has a stupidly high tarrif imposed on it.

There are millions of Japanese whose main income is from rice production NOT 2,000!

Well then, they should find new jobs rather than having to rely on subsidies to survive. And even if they won't, since consumer tax is going to be increased, if the government want to keep these people subsidised, thay can send some of that exra cash to them.

Anyway, how bad and incompetant do you have to be to need to be subsidised when you are a rice farmer in a country whose staple food is rice?
-2

falseflagsteveFeb. 27, 2013 - 11:35AM JST

@Probie, sadly you do not seem to understand why Japanese farming is the way it is. It can be improved but large industrial sized farms cannot happen in Japan for obvious reasons. Food security is also worth paying for and better than your idea of mostly over 50's finding new jobs or getting subsidised for nothing. So, what it boils down to is YOu want cheap rice and sod what that means to Japan and the world for that matter.

BTW, US food would cost far much more if not relying on massive subsidies and millions of illegal workers being paid less than minimum wage.
0

herefornowFeb. 27, 2013 - 12:06PM JST

“There must be a clear, concrete understanding that before Japan would join the TPP negotiations, that those negotiations would result in a real change in Japan’s policies and practices,” Levin said in a statement

Won't never happen. "Real change" and Japan are an oxymoron.
-2

ProbieFeb. 27, 2013 - 12:20PM JST

@Probie, sadly you do not seem to understand why Japanese farming is the way it is. It can be improved but large industrial sized farms cannot happen in Japan for obvious reasons.

If it's not working, why prop it up? Since large scale farming is impossible, then importing stuff like rice would seem logical.

Food security is also worth paying for

Yeah, like the Fukushima rice thing a while back, and the other food safety scandles of recent years. The whole Japanese produce= safe myth is stupid.

So, what it boils down to is YOu want cheap rice and sod what that means to Japan and the world for that matter.

Yeah, I should be able to buy what I want to at a reasonable price.

BTW, US food would cost far much more if not relying on massive subsidies and millions of illegal workers being paid less than minimum wage.

Hey, if citizens of the country won't work cheap, and illegal immigrants will, then what's the problem?
-3

falseflagsteveFeb. 27, 2013 - 12:45PM JST

Probie; So using illegal immigrants in one country to lower prices is ok? Because the US allows this to gain advantage.

How are Japanese rice farmers useless? They sell a product that is in demand, they keep the countryside going, without them vast areas would be waste land.

And who is the judge of a "reasonable price"? At what cost is reasonable, illegal workers, slave workers, child workers, millions of Japanese without income, Japan unable to feed itself with rice in a crisis? The picture is bigger than just cheap foods, i used to think that way until i learnt what free trade is and saw the results. Just look at the EU now, this is how the want the whole world to be while getting ever richer themselves.
-1

ProbieFeb. 27, 2013 - 12:55PM JST

Probie; So using illegal immigrants in one country to lower prices is ok? Because the US allows this to gain advantage.

No, but if the immigrants want to work, let them. At least they're not asking for handouts from the government like the farmers are here.

How are Japanese rice farmers useless? They sell a product that is in demand, they keep the countryside going, without them vast areas would be waste land.

Well, you see, as you say "They sell a product that is in demand", but they can't make enough to live without handouts. I would say that that is the reason why they appear to be useless.

And who is the judge of a "reasonable price"?

The consumer.

At what cost is reasonable, illegal workers, slave workers, child workers,

That isn't just a problem with the U.S. or other countries connected with the TPP.

millions of Japanese without income,

If they continue to get subsidised and charge high prices for their "safety-Japan rice", what's the problem if people buy foreign cheaper rice??

Japan unable to feed itself with rice in a crisis?

Er... if that happens they'll have to import rice, like they did last time. If anything, that's a pro-TPP arguement.

The picture is bigger than just cheap foods, i used to think that way until i learnt what free trade is and saw the results. Just look at the EU now,

You're blaming free trade on the state of the EU? Show me your evidence to support that. The EU has a lot of problems, free trade isn't really one of them.

this is how the want the whole world to be while getting ever richer themselves.

Who? What??
-3

Tiger_In_The_HermitageFeb. 27, 2013 - 12:59PM JST

These economic clubs are a detriment to developing nations but who cares about the poor and developing....

Farmers in Japan will face very demanding competition from USA, our farmers produce top quality produce but if US start dumping in Japan, we will loose our quality choices.
-4

OctagonFeb. 27, 2013 - 01:10PM JST

Free trade agreements harm the small independent mom pop operations greatly. Be careful Japan or soon you may become like the US where small scale farming is now a hobby that earns little to no income. Big and powerful rules the markets in the US.

Also,without tariffs that equal the playing field free trade can lower the standard of living of the citizens,sure many products become cheaper and allow more choices to consumers but that comes at either great cost or great benefit dependent on the scale of economies and the value of currencies.

China imports have destroyed the manufacturing sector of the US economy. Go slow and be careful Japan, look long and hard at the negative aspects of free trade. look carefully at the EU and see how,while some counties thrive,others fail to make any meaningful gain and some fail completely.

Also study the effects that the NAFTA has had on the US, Mexico,and Canada. do not be sold into believing that open trade without restrictions is your savior as it might just be the straw that breaks the camels back....as is the case in the land of free and proud.

US household income has been declining for several years and millions of our citizens are now out of work and many that are working are doing so in low wage service industry jobs that have wages bellow the US poverty level.

40 percent of the US population is either on food stamps,rent subsidies,or som e other form of government social support because our economy has been displaced via free trade agreements. In theory US may be larger market.

It is very unlikely Japanese diet such as Rice, Seaweed and Miso soup will be popular in US. US Soya beam, Corn, Fruits and Vegetables will storm the Japanese market. Therefore Japan agriculture trade deficit will sky rocketed. It is not the national interest of Japan.

The problem is people protecting useless farmers.

That useless farmers have fed the starving population of war torn nation after nuke.They have fed the victims of natural disasters before. When Japan was poor and broke, it could not afford the imported produce. Therefore they are backbone of the nation for survival. That comment is extremely insensitive and lack of any respect. Currently Japan is losing the competitiveness in manufacturing, tourism and entertainment and almost all of the industries. If there is no more farming, there is no food self sufficiency. It is unthinkable for surrendering age old farming sector for the name of free trade.
0

realteacherFeb. 27, 2013 - 01:58PM JST

You don't want this Japan. The ag concerns should be the least of your worries. It's the pharmaceutical and insurance company invasion that should make you worry.
0

humanrightsFeb. 27, 2013 - 02:57PM JST

We will talk' We will think..We will do something and nothing', if we do something we will do it our way..if we do nothing it will be what we do best..!
-1

RedcliffFeb. 27, 2013 - 03:32PM JST

On the surface TPP seems to be a partnership that could elevate and enhance trade among members but there do seems to be some limitations that affect the developing country members greatly. It is true that US stood to gain more than Japan and other member states. Take the Investment Proposal measures and capital policy. US negotiators have been pushing member countries to allow foreign investment to move capital free;ly and without delay into and out of territory. This language would seem to preclude the use of capital controls, a policy tool successfully implemented by many developing countries especially after the Asian Financial Crisis in the late 1990s. Capital Control protects countries from the financial instability and currency fluctuations that result from rapid inflows and outflows of Capital The TPP investment chapter cast doubt on Countries ability to deploy capital controls and critically allow foreign firms to bring legal action against governments if they feel their protections have been violated
0

RedcliffFeb. 27, 2013 - 03:37PM JST

Continue..

Another area is the intellectual property rights where TPP's developing country members are being asked to accept significant constraints. The US proposal would required TPP partners to automatically grant strong patent protections for pharmaceuticals within a certain time period after they have been granted patents in another TPP country. This so called "access window" goes beyond the requirement of the WTO and existing bilateral agreements and would limits the availability of generic drugs and likely raise the price of medicine in TPP countries, particularly affected are the developing countries.
-3

wipeoutFeb. 27, 2013 - 07:18PM JST

Seems that there are people here too that totally misunderstand the TPP and the overwhelming benefits it would bring to everyone in Japan.

That's right. People are generally wary of "overwhelming benefits", and often with good reason.
1

avigatorFeb. 27, 2013 - 10:34PM JST

You can not just have everything to your advantage. It is give and take.
-1

ProbieFeb. 28, 2013 - 10:39AM JST

The problem is people protecting useless farmers.

That useless farmers have fed the starving population of war torn nation after nuke.They have fed the victims of natural disasters before. When Japan was poor and broke, it could not afford the imported produce. Therefore they are backbone of the nation for survival.

Wow. Let's all have a round of applause for the people simply doing their jobs! Did they provide their produce free or at reduced prices? I doubt it. They were probably raking it in!

That comment is extremely insensitive and lack of any respect.

Really? I think it's pretty accurate actually.

Currently Japan is losing the competitiveness in manufacturing, tourism and entertainment and almost all of the industries.

Manufacturing: can't compete with China, no-one can; Tourism: the Yen is too strong, Japan is too expensive; Entertainment: Japanese entertainment is focused on the Japanese- do you really think they care if they are competing with foreign artists?

If there is no more farming, there is no food self sufficiency.

No-one is calling for an end to farming. They're talking about free trade. If the farmers don't want to adapt to that, they deserve to disappear. Social evolution.

It is unthinkable for surrendering age old farming sector for the name of free trade.

Yeah. Change, uuurgh! It's horrible! Let's just keep supporting these over-subsidised, over-protected, under-producing, useless farmers.
-2

falseflagsteveFeb. 28, 2013 - 10:45AM JST

@ Probie,the most subsdised farmers in the first world are from the US. You can buy corn products in the US for less than cost price. The deliberate weakening of the Dollar the last decade has made US products artificially low and look at the state of the country, Free trade makes it look like you will get something good but in the end it brings nothing to the average person.
-2

ProbieFeb. 28, 2013 - 11:30AM JST

@ Probie,the most subsdised farmers in the first world are from the US. You can buy corn products in the US for less than cost price.

Yeah?, bet you can't in Japan.

The deliberate weakening of the Dollar the last decade has made US products artificially low and look at the state of the country, Free trade makes it look like you will get something good but in the end it brings nothing to the average person.

It'll bring cheaper produce, and more choice.
-2

NathawFeb. 28, 2013 - 02:39PM JST

Did they provide their produce free or at reduced prices? I doubt it. They were probably raking it in! -

Yes they provided nuke ruined cities residents for free food. Back in post 1945, Hiro and Naga were ashes without cooking facilities. Radiation were everywhere. They were fed and cared by farming communities. Not by broke and penniless government. It is true for post WWII natural disaster victims too.

Really? I think it's pretty accurate actually.

It is a single propaganda hatred to rural farming communities. Not from main stream society.

Entertainment: Japanese entertainment is focused on the Japanese- do you really think they care if they are competing with foreign artists?

Back in 1960s and 70s, Japan was a market leader of pop, comic, sport and movies. J market has only 100 millions people. J market is not only fan of J artists. If entertainment does not need to compete with foreigners, why do farmers have to compete? It is a double standard and hypocrisy.

No-one is calling for an end to farming. They're talking about free trade. If the farmers don't want to adapt to that, they deserve to disappear. Social evolution. -

You may come from another planet. When NAFTA has been established for many years, many US farmers have joined unemployed army. Of course big and strong survive! Smaller scale farming are history now. US Soya beam is selling well in PRC. It is not because of competitiveness. Iowa has hosted PRC new president back in 1980s. It is payback time to mid west from that new president. In fact market expansion come from big and powerful connection.

Yeah. Change, uuurgh! It's horrible! Let's just keep supporting these over-subsidised, over-protected, under-producing, useless farmers. -

If TPP including agriculture, J trade deficit will be higher because not many people in US are fond of J rice, seaweed and tofu. Japan lack the fertile farm land. It is the most natural disasters prone nation on that earth.

If you read my post again,

Millions of US citizens are now out of work and 40 percent of the US population is either on food stamps,rent subsidies,or some other form of government social support. They have no luxury to spend for imported produce. Therefore Japan will be a loser of TPP.
-2

ProbieFeb. 28, 2013 - 05:14PM JST

Yes they provided nuke ruined cities residents for free food. Back in post 1945, Hiro and Naga were ashes without cooking facilities. Radiation were everywhere. They were fed and cared by farming communities. Not by broke and penniless government. It is true for post WWII natural disaster victims too.

Sources please. Anyway, at that time Japan was full of "farming communities", it isn't now.

It is a single propaganda hatred to rural farming communities. Not from main stream society.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Entertainment: Japanese entertainment is focused on the Japanese- do you really think they care if they are competing with foreign artists?

Back in 1960s and 70s, Japan was a market leader of pop, comic, sport and movies.

Garbage! No, they weren't. In the 1960's, the market leaders in "pop, comic, sport and movies" was the U.K. or the U.S.

J market has only 100 millions people.

Yeah, and it's entertainment industry in 99.9% focused on them.

J market is not only fan of J artists.

Apart from a small amount, I'd say they almost 100% are.

If entertainment does not need to compete with foreigners, why do farmers have to compete? It is a double standard and hypocrisy.

Here's where you can realize that you are missing the point:

The entertainment industry doesn't impose unfairly high tarrifs on foreign music/movies/etc, does it?

The Japanese people can buy whoevers music/movies/etc they want- in fact, a lot of the time, the foreign made imported CDs are cheaper than the ones made in Japan because of tarriffs put on the production of CDs in Japan. That is why many "Japanese version" CDs include bonus tracks- to give people an incentive to buy them over the cheaper foreign versions.

This shows us that if people have the freedom to choose, they will either go for cheaper items (CDs in this case, or for example, cheap rice from the U.S.), or the more "quality" items ("Japanese bonus track" CDs, or Koshihikari rice from Niigata or wherever).

As DEVO said: Freedom of choice, Is what you got, Freedom of choice!

Do you finally see the point now??