Japan protests Russian PM's visit to disputed Kuril islands

****The visit by the Russian PM is another indication of the aggressiveness of President Putin. The delicate balance between economic cooperation and maintaining sovereignty in the matter of Japan's Relationship with the Russians is being challenged by President Putin and is the ultimate in gamesmanship. President Putin is a dangerous leader who is willing to push the limits of tolerance in order to advance the interests of his government. This has been evidenced in Europe in Ukraine, and is also evidenced in President Putin's deteriorated relationship with the United States. Japan has every right to claim sovereignty over the northwest Pacific archipelago, and the aggressiveness demonstrated by Russian Prime Minister Medvedev is an extension of the aggressive policies established by President Putin. Japan's response is appropriate for the time being. However, at some point in the future, the Abe Administration may need to become more aggressive by using the Japan Self-Defense Force if President Putin increases his aggression. This would be very problematic not only for Japan, but for the other countries in the East Asian Region as well. Even the United States would become involved as Japan's strongest military ally.

This would be very problematic not only for Japan, but for the other countries in the East Asian Region

It's especially a big concern for China, because this is obviously a way for Russia to show solidarity with Japan to counter China. Now China is surrounded, and proves that Russia and China don't even remotely have a close relationship. Both of their planned naval exercises in the Sea of Japan later is just Russia telling China to beware of their oceanic expansionism by letting China see the Russian naval force.

Let's stick with this narrative :)

Had it not been for the Japanese defeat in the last war, Japan would still have sovereignty over the islands. Mr Hayashi shouldn't be crying over spilt milk....,

Curious to see how this iteration of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' turns out. Who's going to be enemy and who's going to be friend is in flux for now. No doubt we'll be bombarded with varying interpretations of history, each including cherrypicked facts and truths to support whichever perspective. There's an old song called 'Where have all the flowers gone?' Some think it's silly.

War are gambles. Imperial Japan gambled to seize more territory and lost. It lost territory. Fortunately for Japan it amounted to a few little islands in the Kuril chain. It could have been worse. It is past time for Japan to stop whining about their lost territory, especially in light of Japan's crimes against humanity.

In the Second World War, the USSR agreed to join the struggle against Imperial Japan three months after the surrender of Nazi Germany. As part of that agreement, the Kuril islands were to be spoils of war.

If Imperial Japan had agreed to surrender sooner, by accepting the Potsdam proclamation of July 26, 1945, there would have been no need to drop the Atomic Bombs, and there would have been no need for the USSR to attack Japan. Japan never should have started World War II, and once having started it, they should have accepted surrender sooner.

Japan protests Russian PM's visit

Dear Japan, don't hate the pet, hate the owner.

Most of the people living on these islands are involved in fishing and they sell most of their catch to Japan. Japanese fishermen are aging and not many of the young would want to live in such a harsh environment anyway, so it's time for the Japanese nation-state to be realistic, look at the bigger picture of building and maintaining good relations with their Russia neighbour and move on.

Have the Chinese and Korean governments demanded the Japanese apologize yet for complaining?

The trip “contradicts Japan’s position over the Northern Territories and hurts the feelings of the Japanese people… It is extremely regrettable”, Hayashi said, quoted by a Japanese foreign ministry official.

Quit whining already. Politicians and their wives are visiting Yasukuni hurting the feelings of other people. So be quiet & let the russians visit their island.

@marcelito. putin and medvedev are quaking in their boots. Hilarious.

@Bossu "don't hate the pet, hate the owner".

I know that PM Medvedev is considered a boneless servant of Putin. Nobody takes him seriously.

Good point Warispeace. The best way to get a scorned woman back is by ignoring her. Japan: the more you show interest in those islands, the more Russia will scorn you. Paka.

Japan protests Russian PM's visit to disputed Kuril islands

China slams Japan after Abe's wife visits Yasukuni shrine

Bit of a double standard on JT in the verbs used to describe the actions. When China does it, it's a 'slam'. When Japan does it, it's a 'protest'.

Hayashi is speaking to only those in Japan who lose sleep over the "Northern Territories."

Russia looks too big on the map, to me. it needs to be broken up and shared.

Look Japan, you agreed they aren't yours in San Francisco.

What say them Ainu people about the visit by russian pm?? Or are there any Ainu people left? ?

Oh lookie, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev out and about 'window shopping' for another group of 'islands' to add to Vlad the Invaders WW2 collection of ill gotten gains. Spoils of war?, my foot, pull the other one plays a bells and cannon compliment to Tchaikovsky's 1812.

Every since Abe san paid a visit to Kiev, the first Japanese prime minister to do so, pledging loans and aid amounting to some $1.8billion , the nautical nutcase (yes absolutely, President Putin has been spotted recently diving for shipwrecks in the Black Sea) has thrown the diplomatic equivalent of a hissy fit, threatening to accelerate a build-up of military facilities on the islands, a fool and his money.

As a matter of interest many of the 16,000 Japanese inhabitants of the chain of island were forcibly repatriated. Former PM Koizumi tried and failed to reach a agreement of sorts, Putin is totally untrustworthy to keep his word.

Japan: There IS A dispute with Russia over the Northern Territories. Russia: There's no dispute with Japan over the Kuril Islands.

Japan: There IS A dispute with Korea over Takeshima. Korea: There is no dispute with Japan over Dokdo.

Japan: There IS NO dispute with China over Senkaku. China: WTF!

“contradicts Japan’s position over the Northern Territories and hurts the feelings of the Japanese people… It is extremely regrettable”

How pathetic! Awww... hurts their feelings! Guess they don't care about feelings when the shoe's on the other foot much, now do they? They cry about having to apologize for killing MILLIONS and say apologies are unjustified, and then follow up claims that they have atoned by visiting Yasukuni (again, who cares if you hurt others' feelings, right?) -- you know, just to prove they hold up previous apologies, right? -- and say their claims in other island disputes are backed by the SF treaty, etc., but when a Russian president steps foot on RUSSIAN land? Japan should thank its lucky starts they surrendered when they did and Hokkaido isn't Russian as well. They've had plenty of chances, as well, to get them back diplomatically but Japanese PMs instead decided to pander to the local right wing and squander said chances through bombast and hollow threats.

Tough cookies, Japan. Can't say Senkakus belong to you and cite the SF treaty and administration of the islands as proof they are Japanese and say there is no dispute, then turn around and say the SF treaty has no meaning, nor does Russian administration and inhabitance of the islands have any meaning when it comes to the Kuriles.

There will never be a peace treaty between Japan and Russia. When Abe sided with the Americans it became impossible.

The issue is not legality or rights or history at this point.

Occupation, physical possession of any territory or resource at least until after WWII has been the rule in ownership. In order to keep a territory or resource one must not demand but actually go and keep it with people, population form one's own country physically occupying and defending it. In this case, take it back.

Unfortunately, that also means militarily. And Japan does not have that ability, because the constitution as the general public has been made to believe, does not allow "any" military action until militarily "invaded". That is too late.

For any foreigner or foreign government to take possession of any of Japan's territory is aggression, which must be properly met. Ukraine fully understated that and have resisted.

Both China, S. Korea as with Russia is aware of the limitations of Japanese ability to "defend" its territory militarily if "not" taken "by force" but by simple "occupation". So they continue to just occupy and take over territories favorable for their military and economic development.

Sadly because Japan relied on US for military defense where US has their own "interest" in using Japan, Japan has no "power" militarily to defend against China or Russia. All of the military armaments are totally "defensive" with ability to fend off, but not attack and force the invaders back or away from Japan. The only power Japan has available for "negotiation" and not "fight" militarily to gain back any of the territories is economic and technological.

While all political parties may be aware of this fact, they are too busy "looking" good and idealistic in opposing the current need for changing the constitution. Japan cannot outwardly say that they want to stop Chin and Russia and S Korea. They can only "infer" and not cause alarm and immediate military action from China and Russia. Japan as with the USA is totally "unprepared".

That is the way I look at the scenario here.

Dictators gone wild including Putin since America retreated. Reset button did not work as Russia flexes muscles all over. All these territorial disputes should be resolved by dysfunctional and crooked U.N. who member states including bully regimes and undemocratic China & Russia! The vicious cycle will continue in this trouble world. Shame to dictators.

kazetsukai: "Both China, S. Korea as with Russia is aware of the limitations of Japanese ability to "defend" its territory militarily if "not" taken "by force" but by simple "occupation". So they continue to just occupy and take over territories favorable for their military and economic development."

Typical Japanese response -- it's all everyone else's fault "Japan's" land is in the hands of someone else's and they can't get it back.

At least china dont steal islands from japan. Russia steal islands after jap surrender. And russian aggression is stretching. My enemy of enemy is my friend. Befriend with china. Jap business community happy and japan also happy. Simple as that. Why seek 3000 miles allies while jap can seek 100 miles ally.

In all of the current cases involving Japan where there is a dispute over ownership of territory, whoever has physical possession has the upper hand in this day and age.

Northern Territories / South Kuril Islands: Does anyone really think Russia will EVER give back this territory?? Regardless of who has the rightful claim to them, just being practical. Equally, does anyone think Japan will actually resort to military force to retake them??

Takeshima / Dokdo: Similarly, does anyone really think South Korea will ever cede possession of this territory and does anyone think Japan will actually resort to military force to gain physical possession??

Senkaku Islands / Diaoyu Islands: Interestingly, this one is different. In the first two disputes, one cannot imagine Japan taking military action to gain possession of these territories. However, in the case of this dispute, given their remoteness, given the lack of any human inhabitants or Japanese military presence on the land, it would not be difficult for China to take possession if they chose to do so. And, given their actions in the South China Sea, they clearly are willing to take aggressive actions where they believe they can do so despite the objections of neighbours. For now, however, they are limiting their actions to the occasional incursion into the waters around the islands to assert their claim.

My point regarding all of these is that, with the possible exception of the Senkaku/Diaoyu dispute, it is unlikely that there will be any change in the physical possession of the territories. And I think all parties know this. I think Japan knows this.

As such, much of this is diplomatic theatre. Because there is a dispute over the territory, the side that is claiming possession, which is Japan in the case of the first two disputes, must continually reassert its claims. To fail to do so would, over time, could lead to the assertion that Japan is abandoning its claims.

So, in the case of this protest by Japan, it is really perfunctory. Indeed, I would almost guarantee that Russia would have expected it when they made plans for Medvedev to visit the islands.

Undoubtedly these types of actions and protests will continue for years and decades to come.

Japan protests Russian PM's visit to disputed Kuril islands. China slams Japan after Abe's wife visits Yasukuni shrine Bit of a double standard on JT in the verbs used to describe the actions. When China does it, it's a 'slam'. When Japan does it, it's a 'protest'.

What's the double standard? Please read again from your sources what Hua Chunying, the Chinese ministry spokeswoman, had to say. That was not a protest. That was a(nother) lecture of the big bully.

presto345: "That was a(nother) lecture of the big bully."

You mean Japan complaining? So if China's the big bully, and Russia is the big bully, is Japan the little wimp that can't defend itself? You can't have one without the other. Japan needs to stop playing victim when the other party is not in the wrong, as neither China in complaining about visits to Yasukuni, or Russia visiting its islands, is.

Read the Chinese tirade again, Smith. So much similar to all the Chinese "protests" loaded with words like aggression, militarism, trust, reconciliation, the latter something China is not in any way serious about. And Japan playing the victim has by now become a phrase rather stale after it having popped up, copied and pasted, a million times and overplayed.

Japan should protest US military occupations their homeland, from Hokkaido until Okinawa everywhere were US bases and their planes,naval vessels easy come easy go to use Japanese ports or airbases. Protest sagainst neighbors just dont help japan's security. All countries who has territories dispute wirh Japan knows her stuff 'double standard' and her political purpose is kicking up xenophobia, it is very simple.

For everything people might say about Putin, I just love the way he handles the Japanese. The " fearless Samurais " wimper at Putin but they will " bark" at China and S.Korea. I'd love to see the so much hyped " Yamato damashi" against Putin. Come on Japan, I'm waiting!!

presto345: " And Japan playing the victim has by now become a phrase rather stale..."

Simply art reflecting life. If the phrase is stale, the practice is far, FAR more so. Don't get upset over the name when a spade is called a spade. It's be like someone saying, "Saying China is promoting propaganda is SO overplayed and has been used a million times!" -- wouldn't change the fact that China also engages in propaganda all the time, now would it? Nor would it change the fact that although they are engaging in the militarism, they are basing it on practices in which Japan is in the wrong to begin with.

You guys with your, "Let's forget about it when it applies to Japan, but it's never old or tired when pinning it on China or Russia or South Korea" are the ones who are stale.

I wonder if we can meet halfway and solve every territorial disputes once and for all.

It's the consequence of losing the war, like the Okinawan bases.

USSR/Russia took control of the Kuril Islands since about 70 YEARS AGO. Why can't Japan just MOVE ON?!?!

Russia looks too big on the map, to me. it needs to be broken up and shared.

@Davnetcat

Napoleon and Hitler had the same idea. Want to repeat their fate?

Hey, the Russians need this territory, lol.

After WW2 many countries gain or lose some territories and peacefully move on with their life. As there is likely not smallest chance to get back lost islands Japan should forget it and move on too.

Russia looks too big on the map, to me. it needs to be broken up and shared.

Actually Russia is too big on the map. Russia is actually less than twice the size of America, but on a Mercator projection map, the top part is stretched and distorted until it looks about 8x bigger than America. Maps lie.

Good relations between Russia and Japan would benefit both sides.

Russia could do with some Japanese technology, and in terms of natural resources, there is very little Russia doesn't have.

The issue of the disputed islands is a complex one, but are there realistically going to be Japanese wanting to move there? Hokkaido outside of Sapporo is rapidly depopulating as it is.

After the breakup of the USSR, the breakup of the Russian Federation itself was something that was on the cards. Thankfully for Putin this has been avoided for now, but to grant these islands back to Japan could potentially have opened a domestic can of worms.

Akula I do not think peace is possible with Russia. Putin taking off his shirt does not impress me! There use to be Japanese populations on the Northern Territories. As for benefiting Russia sure it would benefit them but how will it help Japan? The Americans need to sell us their gas and oil. It will help keep trade going and benefit both parties. I do not think Japan should feed the Russian Bear.

From Russian perspective, Russia's hold on Kuril islands is questionable. To say the least. However, we do not see Japan really needs these islands. From Russian perspective introduction of sanctions and demagogy about islands, just confirms that Japan uses this issue for political gains. Japan doesn't really need peace treaty, or solution, just endless political talk.

@Alexey : Japan doesnt need any neighbours, that is a more accurate description. Everyday is usa, usa, usa...! The japanese victimhood not just exist in every August of nuclear raid ceremony but it does exist everyday, conflicts with all her neighbors were good to solidarity the japanese populations under LDP. It was an irony that japan shall never complained US military planes flew over Mt Fuji daily sorties...... But I do admire Mr. Medevev repeat step foots on Kurils, that helps a tension ring around japan otherwise miscalculated moves from Japan might occuring.

@YuriOtani"I do not think peace is possible with Russia".

You cannot speak for all Japanese people. Not everyone wishes to stay an American puppet forever.

"The Americans need to sell us their gas and oil".

From economical viewpoint it is much more better to buy Russian oil and gas.

yamashi I would be happy to see the last of the American military and rejoin the SDF. However unless Japan grows a spine it will never happen. Clue the American bases do not defend Japan but are Japan paid for bases for USA training. As for depending on Russian gas and oil, the lesson of the Ukraine should be used. Once they have us hooked they will use it to turn the screws on Japan.

Lady is very angry. Nice looking Slav broke her heart? On a serious note, a lot of Russians appreciate Japan didn't attack USSR in very difficult time. We see no reason to argue over islands. A lot of Russians puzzled why Japan did really nothing to negotiate these lands so far. You prefer argument vs. conversation. Both V. Putin and D. Medvedev very aware of everything. Russia is pushed to the corner and Japan better take advantage of it. Will it happen? Bet not.

Alexey Kulikov no northern territories, no peace treaty. As for attacking Russia it will not happen. We are a peaceful nation and will respond only to real attacks.

@YuriOtani"no northern territories, no peace treaty".

Nobody would seriously talk about "northern territories" with a vassal state of the USA. Japan is unable to clean its territory from Americans and at the same time pretends on Kuriles? Can you realize how laughable it looks out ? Putin may be tyrant or despot but he never bowed to American congressmen. Abe did.

"the lesson of the Ukraine should be used".

The Ukraine mostly was created by tzarist Russia and the USSR. Large pieces of territory were given by Soviets to create that state. After WWII Soviets created gas pipe lines, both to Ukranian and European customers. Even after dissolution of the USSR everything went well. In 90ies Ukrainians began to listen Americans and tried to cut off relations to Russia. Last few years they tried to forbid Russian language in Russian- speaking, eastern regions. And finally they started a genocide of Russian-speaking people. In response, Russians applied certain measures, including cutting gas flows. But Japan is not Ukraine and mentality of Japanese is totally different.

@Alexei Kulikov "Japan didn't attack the USSR".

Even during Cold War times Japan helped a lot, despite hostile policy of CoCom. Toshiba sold milling machines for blades of Soviet submarines. Also Soviets got a high-class steel from Japan specially for gas pipes.

Wooback, wooback!, these islets administration costs an arm and a leg, populated by an ethnic Russianx` majority they are as about as much use to Japan as a hole in the head.

The Kuril islands are a economic noose around Moscow's neck, by all means huff and puff about the military build up but leave it at that. This morning the Rouble went on life support against the dollar. Remember UN right to self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order.

Yes, wars are gambles. Yes, Japan lost the war. Yet, the islands were ceased after the war. There was no gamble, Japan did not resist the takeover.

That doesn't make them Russian, does it?

That doesn't make them Russian, does it?

And what about the San Francisco peace treaty, where Japan renounced its rights on the whole Kurile islands?

Japan:The Senkaku Islands rightfully belongs to Japan because of the totally legitimate Treaty of San Francisco proving it. However, the Northern Territories does not belong to Russia because the Treaty of San Francisco is totally illegitimate and doesn't prove anything.

And what about the San Francisco peace treaty, where Japan renounced its rights on the whole Kurile islands?

That's what I was commenting (the quote disappeared). Let me reiterate. The fact that Japan signed the Treaty of San Francisco DOES NOT mean the islands belong to USSR (and now Russia). Soviets REFUSED to sign the treaty. Why do the islands belong to Russia then? Why not to Zimbabwe, for example?

Moreover, historically, the islands NEVER BELONGED to Russia. All treaties between Russia and Japan consequently stipulated that Kuril Islands are Japanese territory. The only "legal" basis of Kuril takeover is the cartel-type criminal deal between Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill.

http://lenta.ru/news/2015/08/23/rogozin/ Vice Premier of Russia Dmitry Rogozin advised Japanese people "do hara-kiri". "If they were real men, would make traditionally hara-kiri and be at rest, finally. And only the noise " - mr.Dmitry Rogozin.

Russia do not care about the feelings of others. It is a backward country, with lots of little populated territories, but at the same time seeking to collect more new territories. Japan is not the only one whose territory they took over, they attacked Georgia (2008), selected from the Ukrainian Crimea, now pour the blood on the Donbass. Their (Russian) it's time to to stop and to return all the loot them, otherwise they will continue to kill and rob.

This is Medvedev's second visit to the islands. What about those islands that attracts the Russian Prime Minister so much? Surely not their natural beauty.

The fact that Japan signed the Treaty of San Francisco DOES NOT mean the islands belong to USSR (and now Russia). Soviets REFUSED to sign the treaty. Why do the islands belong to Russia then? Why not to Zimbabwe, for example?

@ Shibuya Boy

The fact that in the SF treaty Japan renounced all its rights on the islands ACTUALLY MEAN that it has no rights on them now, no matter what country controls them. And yes, in principle Zimbabwe has no less rights on the islands then Japan, but Russia has the effective control (and here come Japanese arguments for Senkaku).

@Maria Mahno

Your Russophobic rant demonstrates complete ignorance. For starters, check Wikipedia or something, and you would know who started the war in 2008 (US puppet Saakashvili did), how Crimea returned to Russia (without a single shot fired, with very enthusiastic support of Crimeans), and who shells Donetsk every day (Ukrainian ragtag "army").

The fact that Japan signed the Treaty of San Francisco DOES NOT mean the islands belong to USSR (and now Russia). Soviets REFUSED to sign the treaty. Why do the islands belong to Russia then? Why not to Zimbabwe, for example?

@ Shibuya Boy

The fact that in the SF treaty Japan renounced all its rights on the islands ACTUALLY MEAN that Japan has no rights on them now, no matter what other country controls them. And yes, in principle Zimbabwe has no less rights on the islands then Japan, but Russia has the effective control (and here come Japanese arguments for Senkaku).

@Maria Mahno

Before writing something like that, check Wikipedia or something, and you would know who started the war in 2008 (US puppet Saakashvili did), how Crimea returned to Russia (without a single shot fired, with very enthusiastic support of Crimeans), and who shells Donetsk every day (Ukrainian ragtag "army")."

The fact that in the SF treaty Japan renounced all its rights on the islands ACTUALLY MEAN that Japan has no rights on them now, no matter what other country controls them. And yes, in principle Zimbabwe has no less rights on the islands then Japan, but Russia has the effective control (and here come Japanese arguments for Senkaku).

Actually, a signatory to the SF Treaty in U.S. recognizes Japan's soverignty over the islands.

"..The United States recognizes Japanese sovereignty over these islands. .."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2014/08/230586.htm#JAPAN

As to comparison to Senkaku, Japan has 'effective' control in that it's on paper and not much else.

As to the assertion by some posters that Japan wants these islands 'really badly' and hence would do anything is false. I read on some publications few years ago (can't figure out which but it was in a bookstore) that Japan's insistence and continued stubborness to seek all four islands (Northern Territories) in exchange for a Peace treaty is the Soviet's (current Russia) breaking the Neutrality Pact. They have broken a bilateral agreement in the past so Japan want's some type of 'down payment' so to speak.

YuriOtani As for depending on Russian gas and oil, the lesson of the Ukraine should be used. Once they have us hooked they will use it to turn the screws on Japan.

Good example - Germany - they pay , they received, Russia not supplied gas and oil fo free , sorry it's business not charity

Shibuya Boy . The fact that Japan signed the Treaty of San Francisco DOES NOT mean the islands belong to USSR (and now Russia). Soviets REFUSED to sign the treaty. Why do the islands belong to Russia then? Why not to Zimbabwe, for example

Because Zimbabwe does not took part in a war against Japan. And not destroyed Japanese armies.

Why 70 years AFTER WW II USA still occupied Japan and why Zimbabwe not ?

Sorry guys Kuril Islands come to Russia as a result of WW II.

Useless to discuss this question - this is a history now...