Japan warns against U.N. inaction on N Korea rocket launch

The UN is indeed a useless organization. The only way Japan is going to be able to keep Kim Nutbag from causing more grief is to untie it's own hands. Change the constitution and become a normal military power. That's the only thing that bullies respect.

China & Russia just might change their minds about sanctions against NK if they thought that Japan was going to dump clause 9 & go nuclear. But in truth that is exactly what Japan needs to do. The only leverage they had & have is money & even that is now too tight to offer around so Japan needs to fully arm as a normal military & only by doing that can they expect to get any respect from other countries.

China & Russia just might change their minds about sanctions against NK if they thought that Japan was going to dump clause 9 & go nuclear.

U.S. nuclear umbrella + Japan's clause No.9 = the best protection to Japan. Anything else will endanger Japan's security. Anyway, even if China and Russia change their mind, it is US who will not tolerate nuclear Japan.

While I don't often agree with some14some, I do with that previous point. The only thing that would cause Japan to develop nuclear weapons would be the removal of the US security treaty.

The UN is completely useless. How many times in the past has the United Nations passed resolutions that get violated and they do nothing in response? Too many times to count. The North Koreans know that the UN is incapable of enforcing international law and are not at all concerned about what the Security Council might do.

I agree with Grafton. If Japan would even threaten to go nuclear that might at least get the attention of the Chinese to do something about their crazy ally Kim. However, that would be a very contentious road for the Japanese to go down domestically. Japan must continue to develope it's missile defenses and lay the groundwork for future defense changes. This means a revision to Article 9. I do believe that the US probably does not want Japan to become a nuclear power, but that wouldn't in any way diminish the strong defense relationship between the two countries. It is an understandable reaction on the part of Japan considering growing Chinese and North Korea military power right in their back yard.

Exciting, this story will lose interest. Let's wait a few more weeks. That is what UN is waiting for.

It's been said by posters here that the US wouldn't want Japan to become a nuclear power. Is that really the case? I don't really think the US would be that against it. There is a high level of trust between these two nations.

The international community will allow North Korea to engage in space development “only if the North fulfilled its obligation to abandon all nuclear programs and no longer poses a threat to Japan and the rest of the world,” he said.

Foreign Minister Hirofumi Nakasone

The above statement is the correct Japanese view of the situation, but the perception of a violation is relative to the UNSC structure. How much influence that perception can be accepted will be tested in the weeks and months ahead.

Why don't NKorea and Japan just skip the middle-man, warn each other, and go back to going nowhere in self-absorbed discussions. As it is, it's just kind of humurous to watch this little back and forth between the children.

The rise of Japanese militarism. A deadbeat national leader using the spectre of a backward and fundamentally sociopathic "enemy" for his own political gains. I've seen this before.

Aso's approval ratings are up 9% in just the last week. The Japanese government is full of very dangerous people with very dangerous ideas of how things sould be. We should not forget that Aso's family fortune came off the backs of Korean slaves used in his family's factories in WW2. They cannot be trusted with a fully capable military as they have zero diplomatic skills. Japan would quickly become the most dangerous country in the region. Watch it happen as the economy fails.

Speed: "It's been said by posters here that the US wouldn't want Japan to become a nuclear power. Is that really the case? I don't really think the US would be that against it. There is a high level of trust between these two nations."

I don't think the US is against it because it doesn't want Japan to have them, but it would further destabalize the region since Japan doesn't really have too many friends. Might spark an Asian arms race, and things are too closely packed together here... not to mention it wouldn't fly well with Russia and in particular China, two UN nations (China is of course in Asia, but it warrants special mention).

U.S. nuclear umbrella + Japan's clause No.9 = the best protection to >Japan. Anything else will endanger Japan's security. Anyway, even if >China and Russia change their mind, it is US who will not tolerate >nuclear Japan.

Dpon't kid yourself. If Japan did decide to go nuclear, even the United States couldn't stop it. We can't even stop NKorea which takes an adversarial position towards us.

The only thing that would cause Japan to develop nuclear weapons would >be the removal of the US security treaty.

While obviously the elimination of the US-Jpn Mutual Defense Treaty would certainly do it, I believe that even just continuously "failing" to provide what Japan views as "security" may be enough to push them to that point. An overly stretched US military and a new administration with what our opponents view as a "young and inexperienced leader" doesn't help matters at all.

kandamanada;

The rise of Japanese militarism.

In the 6 or so years I've been posting here I've lost track of the number of times I've heard this, and it is no closer to reality now that it was back then. It's nothing more than wishful thinking from those who have a negative view of Japan and seem to be hoping for a renewed militarism (in a time of declining defence spending) to justify their own biases. Ain't gonna happen.

How many on JT think Jpn cud be trusted with its own nukes, I certainly dont. Jpns problems are many mostly made of their own accord. If Jpn starts expanding & upgarding its military I wudnt be surprised if Jpn is the cause of the next outbreak of hostilities in the far east. I mean everyone rags on NK, include myself here, but really how different is Jpn from NK? I say not very much, they are more similar than different imo

I believe that even just continuously "failing" to provide what Japan views as "security" may be enough to push them to that point.

Maybe, but any J government that takes that view is going to have a really hard time selling it to a public overwhelmingly against the idea. Remember what happened when Fukuda brought it up as a hypothetical.

GW;

Thanks for perfectly illustrating the point I was making in my 1025 post - impeccable timing!

Maybe, but any J government that takes that view is going to have a really hard time selling it to a public overwhelmingly against the idea. Remember what happened when Fukuda brought it up as a hypothetical.

True. But it appears the views are changing according to this article.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/feature/20080116-907457/news/20090403-OYT1T00006.htm?from=nwla

51.6% favor revision as of March 2009 compared to 42.5% same time last year.

And I believe the survey was taken before NK launched their "satellites" to orbit.

nigelboy;

Interesting, but still shows a majority against revising Article 9 itself.

I mean everyone rags on NK, include myself here, but really how >different is Jpn from NK? I say not very much, they are more similar >than different imo

Let me call you on that. THey are as different as night and day. In 1944 the average Japanese believed that the Emperor was a God, everything he knew about the world was from propaganda and censored information controlled by the miliarists in the government. He lived in fear of the Kempteitai coming in the middle of the night, charging him and his family of acts against the state. All while we were destroying Japan's military island by island in the Pacific, the Japanese people were being told of victory after victory. It was an honor and duty for every Japanese male to offer his life in sacrifice for the Emperor. Now that bears a remarkable resemblance to North Korea today doesn't it? But does it bear any resemblance to Japan since 1945? No. Personally I think that any nation that has, admittedly painfully, gotten past military control of the government and has tasted the economic prosperity and freedom of a democratic society can never, go back. And this includes Japan, Germany, Hungary, Rumania, all nations that have known the supression of fascism or communism.

the japanese public can be easily manipulated & in any case even if some/many disagree what wud they do if the LDP/govt pushed for rearming, I`ll tell you, NOTHING ZIP NADA!

Maybe, but any J government that takes that view is going to have a >really hard time selling it to a public overwhelmingly against the idea. >Remember what happened when Fukuda brought it up as a hypothetical.

True. But things change. Circumstances, such as NKorea's behavior instigates such change. I wouldn't be surprised if at the first step, the notion that talking about going nuclear ceases to be "taboo". At least at that point an open discussion can be held about the issue.

The UN is completely useless

And pathtic. Now, if Japan doesnt want to look even more pathetic, it needs to show some backbone. Block shipping lanes to NK. Its that simple. This would indeed put presure on China to deal with NK.

How many on JT think Jpn cud be trusted with its own nukes, I certainly >dont.

I feel the most uncomfortable with NKorea and eventually Iran or perhaps Syria having nukes. I feel very uncomfortale with Pakistan and India having nukes and being so adverserial. I feel somewhat uncomfortable with the US, Russia and China having nukes if for no other reason than that they have so many. But if Japan were to have nukes it would bother me or the rest of the world as much as England and France having nukes.

Japan said Monday that while it was trying to lobby China and Russia...

They see Japan is a potential enemy and wont gives a mere respect over japan's call. By the way if Japan goes nuclear armed, the consequences will beyond imagiantions, both Russia and China will reaction against it. If Japan really decided to goes nuclear she did it long time ago,why always mentioned this aim as usual in media. No, Japan wont goes nuclear that was at risk of herself and wont get pay! Those calls for nuclear japan was a kind of hysteria and the domestic Japanese politics,the unefficency political enviroment in Japan will be turned into a chaos,that was really hurting. The Japanese public know this is a kind of dirty tricks triggared by the unpopular LDP to save herself out,it was a political motivated act to divert people's frustrations only!

Punishing North Korea was indeed putting Japan herself in harms way,this is real! North Korean dared to capture US spying ship and tortured her crews, shooting down US spy plane killing all crews and chopping US army officers with axe in Panmunjon! They attempted twice to assassinate south Korean presidents in 1968 and 1983,blown up KAL airline in 1987.And their midget submarine crews dared to fight until death rather than capyured in 1996.... Dont underestimating them, they are playing real cowboys! China was doing her best to save japan out of troubles,why the Japanese never understood Chinese goodwill efforts but just foolishly exaggerating a minor incident! Japan wasnt gives asian people a very good images, it was unwise to gives a pretext for them to kicks off more turbulences!

For China the 38th parallel was a line must hold regardless of whatsoever reasons.Thats why no compromise at all about more sanctions over North Korea. If no more blashings enduring at each other, the chaos willceased and the situations will calm, that will be easier to talks. Otherwise if North Korea feels her survival was threatened more deadly reactions will happened and the price will be costly. this is the best way to deal... North Korea is a state prepared for total war,something beyond normal countries so it is wise to dont touch it rather than screwing with a wasp nest!

UnagiDon: "It's nothing more than wishful thinking from those who have a negative view of Japan and seem to be hoping for a renewed militarism (in a time of declining defence spending) to justify their own biases."

I agree and disagree. As I said (about the nukes), it's not because of militarism that the US might not support Japan, but because other nations would see it as a threat and up their aresenals (or build them) as well. It would further destabilize the region.

What's more, it's not only SOME people with bias who believe in a return to militarism in Japan, there are people in government who have expressed it (outright or not). Wasn't a major government figure chided a couple years ago for suggesting Japan get nukes? The fact that he was chided, and even pressured to resign is indicative that in fact there is no return to militarism, and thus I agree with you, but to say the sentiment is limited to people in order to argue their bias (ie. against Japanese) is leaving some key players out.

UnagiDon： It's nothing more than wishful thinking from those who have a negative view of Japan and seem to be hoping for a renewed militarism (in a time of declining defence spending) to justify their own biases. Ain't gonna happen.

Interesting how you say I am biased when I live here, do business with and enjoy the company of Japanese people. I'm one of the few who see things from more than one side. As for the militarism, it is happening right now and it began with Koizumi's shift to the right. The others you've heard say this in the past 6 years may or may not have the academic stuff to back up their opinions, but I assure you that I do. I know a thing or two about geopolitics having been a lifelong student. Aso absolutely will increase military spending after he wins the next election and he will not fail to crank up the rhetoric. I suppose Japan wants new strike fighters for self defence, right? Riiiiiiight. Strike fighters are meant for attack, not defence. The LDP is slowly positioning the public for support of a constitutional ammendment to article 9. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to read a few more books and talk to a few more military people.

To CZAR202030:

Alot of what you posted rings true, but my info is old. DPRK behaves as an underdog, and will compensate by total dedication. It's not a situation that Japan or ROK needs to disturb. The 6party talks gives everyone a good take of the situation, rather than making any miscalculations. Best to error on the side of caution.

The Japanese public know this is a kind of dirty tricks triggared by the unpopular LDP to save herself out,it was a political motivated act to divert people's frustrations only!

I don't know the context of your statement, but if the public thinks that, the LDP is in REAL trouble in the next general election.

This situation really is activating old studies/files.

czar202 Thanks for your opinions. I believe I disagree with all three of your posts but I will refrain from a debate for fear of ending up with a headache.

Why do we have to go through this same old rigmarole every time?? We all know North Korea can always do exactly what it wants without any repercussions. They have nuclear weapons, they have thousands of artillery pieces trained on Seoul and maybe missiles trained on Tokyo. Nobody can take any meaningful action against them. They know it, we know it. And shortly Kimmy will no doubt get his usual supplies of fuel, rice, food,cash and porn DVDs from China, S.korea, Japan etc. Kimmy is always the winner.

it's not because of militarism that the US might not support Japan, but >because other nations would see it as a threat and up their aresenals (or build them) as well. It would further destabilize the region.

With China's military buildup already a major issue, plus NKOrea's not-stop advancement what difference would it make now?

What's more, it's not only SOME people with bias who believe in a return >to militarism in Japan, there are people in government who have >expressed it (outright or not).

The above highlights the ambiguous usage of the term "militarism" when discussing this topic. Most of us use the term to represent a change in the constitution, to alter Japan's military to an offensive/defense position, and effectively to become a force similar to that of other countries, rather than one that has it's hands tied and needs months of debate and passage of laws to do anything. The anti-Jp crowd I believe uses "militarism" as a "return to pre WWII Imperial Japanese Military Forces" and a military run government. By this definition, contrary to the above coment, no person in post WWII Japanese govt has ever suggested returning to such a fascist state. The nearest thing would be perhaps the fringe black truck boys who annoy the daylights out of the average Japanese on the streets. As I've stated previously, ther notion that any country that has been this succesful as a post war democracy could never go back to such oppression. It's silly and infantile to even think it.

it is US who will not tolerate nuclear Japan...

I would disagree with that. Given the effectivity of the US "intolerance" of NK and Iran's nuke ambitions it would be of no consequence if Japan went nuclear.

If Japan did get ready to go nuclear China might actually spank their brat. It is the Chinese who are responsible for the current situation and it is their responsibility to deal with it. If they won't then Japan has to be able to defend itself. Relying on the US is naive.

First, Japan must withdraw various funds and programs from the corrupted U.N. bureaucracy, thus demanding a seat on the permanent security council. Second, Japan should test a satellite that fly over China and then telling them to keep China's head cool. Third, Japan must find the way to stop the pachinko's fund to N. Korea; including banning the game due to illicit transaction of fund to N.Korea.

the notion that any country that has been this succesful as a post war democracy could never go back to such oppression. It's silly and infantile to even think it.

Not exactly,the presnt japan society and economic woes matched the Hindenberg-era of Germany

At most the UNSC will issue a joint statement to urge North Korea to restrain,nothing more. Both China and Russia wont allowing any condemning of North Korea or sanctioning. Just like any attempt to condemn israel 's military actions by arab states will be veto by US. In the UNSC forum it was a place to show of force! America shall not pressure China or Russia over this matter because China was the largest US debts and bonds holder and Russia was essential to cooperate with US of logistics support for US warfare against the Taliban in afghanistan,both were the 'untouchables'! It was definately not good to anger them for the sake of Japan, even in Bush-era,Miss Rice have to aware of North Korea about those factors! And Japan shall no longer arguing seriously, the domestic politics and economy was complicated already,the pain will be forgotton.Thios is real!

North Korea has learned from China that the Japanese government was a paper tiger, japan has been arguing China's military great leap for 20 years and the Chinese leaders just ignoring them. But still the Japanese has to do business without Chinese slowing down her military modernrizations. So that was a big hint to Kim JonIl dared to play nasty. Japan has almost no influences over neighbouring country and even her closest ally US wont take her concern seriously, that was her own fault that cant blaming the others.