Sunday May 27, 2012

JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Noda's consumption tax hike plan unpopular, poll shows

Politics Dec. 05, 2011 - 09:45AM JST ( 57 )

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

Order by Time Order by Popularity

57 Comments

2

some14someDec. 05, 2011 - 07:29AM JST

Was it ever popular in Japan's history of Consumption Tax?
5

OkinawamikeDec. 05, 2011 - 07:32AM JST

Name one tax plan that was popular!

Now a plan to cut a politicians pay, that would be popular.
0

soldaveDec. 05, 2011 - 08:27AM JST

No story here. When has a tax increase for a country's whole population proved popular with the large majority?
2

Ben_JackinoffDec. 05, 2011 - 08:29AM JST

When has a raise in the consumption tax done anything good at all for Japan? Never, that is when.
1

pamelotDec. 05, 2011 - 08:34AM JST

The present consumption tax rate would be sufficient, if there was more consuming.

Given that, how would raising it, help?
2

GodanDec. 05, 2011 - 08:44AM JST

I sincerely agree with Pamelot. Back when the LDP introduced the very first consumption tax of 3% - that just killed the economy (that had been slightly recovering). Remember people going nuts before the tax was introduced and buying all kinds of stuff to avoid the 3%. After that no one was buying much of anything and the economy has never been the same since. Kind of interesting that the rise in consumption tax has ultimately led to the deflation (in terms of wages and prices) Japan has been crushed by over the past 10+ years.
3

RogerrabbittDec. 05, 2011 - 09:12AM JST

I agree with OkinawaMIKE...a cut in politicians would be more favourable...therefore avoiding the need for any tax increases....some of these politicions are on 2.5 to 5mill yen a month!
1

gyouzaDec. 05, 2011 - 09:20AM JST

50.7% of respondents want a general election to be held before a law for a consumption tax hike is enacted.

This is interesting and would force the hand of the opposition who say it is bad for the economy, but but how they would propose to raise the money needed. The money has to come from somewhere, and 5% is incredibly low (go to the UK for a 20% rate!).
0

RecklessDec. 05, 2011 - 09:47AM JST

No more taxes! Liquidate TEPCO to pay for disaster relief. That should cover it.
1

2020hindsightsDec. 05, 2011 - 09:47AM JST

The money has to come from somewhere, and 5% is incredibly low (go to the UK for a 20% rate!).

I agree. Japan needs to raise tax revenue. It has one of the largest deficits in the OECD. Of course I'd rather pay less tax, but this is inevitable.
-2

FoxieDec. 05, 2011 - 09:54AM JST

I don't mind the tax raise as long as it happens after Japan joined the TPP.
-4

johninnahaDec. 05, 2011 - 09:54AM JST

Unpopular!

Why?

I would never have believed there were so many selfish people in the world.

The government deserves it and more.

Why not hike it up to 50%?
0

davidattokyoDec. 05, 2011 - 10:01AM JST

The result indicated “public dissatisfaction with the current political framework involving two major parties and several small parties,” Kyodo said.

Mmmm, fascinating. So who is it that keeps voting for these two major parties and several small parties?

Gee, is it the Aliens? Or the Gaijins?

Oh no, that's right, it's the public who are responsible for who they voted for.

Same problem as over in the USA I guess, but I don't see no tea party equivalents here yet (except perhaps for Hashimoto's movement down in Osaka).
0

noriyosan73Dec. 05, 2011 - 10:08AM JST

Why not increase the consumption tax? Unemployment is only 4.5%, unlike 8.6% in the USA. More tax income for the government from everyone means more programs like extended unemployment and welfare. Why increase the consumption tax? Is anyone listen to the debate in the USA? Higher taxes means less consumption. Less consumption means less production resulting in more people on unemployment and welfare. Conclusion, don't vote for any incumbents. Let's try a totally new team. It can't do any worse.
-1

CrickyDec. 05, 2011 - 10:17AM JST

Big Debt, Big spending, Waistful spending, shrinking tax base....pain for everyone to balance these books. 5% is low by international standards up to 10% that is still at the low end compared to other G8 countries.
1

RecklessDec. 05, 2011 - 10:21AM JST

Regarding lower prices from TPP, I saw Philippine bananas in Daiei this weekend with a bunch for about 40 yen. 10% sales tax would be 4 yen. I also saw Japanese apples, one per 140 yen. Choice is mine.
3

ScroteDec. 05, 2011 - 10:32AM JST

The poll also showed that 71.5% called for a realignment of political parties

But the main criterion to be elected in Japan is to be the son of a previous MP. No other skills or ability are required.

You can rearrange the cow pats however you like, but you'll still be left with a pile of dung at the end.
3

WeaselDec. 05, 2011 - 10:39AM JST

The prime minister rotation clock has officially started.
-1

globalwatcherDec. 05, 2011 - 10:48AM JST

Nobody want to say the truth as it hurts. Are you willing to go bankruptcy in 3 years? Japan has no choice.
-1

ExportExpertDec. 05, 2011 - 10:56AM JST

Sales tax increase will kill the remaining flicker of economy japan has left, 1997 when they increased the sales tax it stalled everything and since things have just spluttered along.

Atleast wait untill the financial crisis is over and economy has recovered to some degree, then slide it in, lumping it on everyone now will be the death of spending. Use some common sense atleast, (i know thats impossible here)
1

SerranoDec. 05, 2011 - 11:04AM JST

"Japan has no choice"

Sure they do. Stop spending money you don't have. And how about getting all these people paying half a million yen or more a month for their luxury apartments and Ferraris to chip in some more?
1

globalwatcherDec. 05, 2011 - 11:33AM JST

I agreed with everyone here. Japan needs a deep public spending cut if JGOV wants concensus among tax payers.. And also I agreed with ExportExpert, the timing is very critical as we are dealing with the Euro mess.

Public spending cuts include:

1)Cut non performing govt agencies as well non performing bureucrates who are on govt payrolls.

2)Streamline municipalities and prefectural govts.

3)Cut ALL housing allowances to public employees.

4)Sell govt owned properties including govt owned housings for public employees.

5)Implement walfare (excluding disability) reform. If physically and mentally able, then they need to go to work. Again, I am excluding mentally and physically disability people. They need more help here.

6)Implement National health care and Nenkin systems.
3

DotakunDec. 05, 2011 - 11:59AM JST

Politicians and bureaucrats always want to increase taxes, talk about decreasing spending, but very few plans/ideas to expand the economy.
Japan is still suffering from the bubble economy and many things that were set up then still have not changed. Transportation fees are very high in Japan, pricing was established during the bubble and they havent come down despite a recession.
JR charges about double/triple to Amtrak in the US. They own $100s of billions in real estate, many non-core businesses, and on top of that receive government aide to build new rail lines. Its time that they start giving back to the people who made them rich and dispose of assets/slash fees. The ease of domestic travel would create all sorts of new freedom/business/opportunities. Domestic airfare higher than international? There is something wrong here... most expensive highway tolls in the world... taxi fares... But unfortunately transportation special interests ties with politicians/bureaucrats are the strongest of all. Who knows if they will ever budge...
3

globalwatcherDec. 05, 2011 - 12:13PM JST

Unemployment is only 4.5%, unlike 8.6% in the USA

**It is relative to 9.0% US unemployment as most Japanese unemployed only stay on record up to 3 months while US extends it up to 96 weeks. **
-2

electric2004Dec. 05, 2011 - 12:13PM JST

How about this?

Increase now from 5 to 6 percent. Then discuss about more increases one year later, once the effects are know. Maybe couple this with the next election.
2

OnniyamaDec. 05, 2011 - 12:25PM JST

Why not? It is the simplest non-idea that a political group can make. UP the consumption tax and keep wasting money as normal. Soak the taxpayer and then say there is no money left for social programs. Build unnecessary roads, tunnels and bridges. Give your buddies the construction contracts. I agree with most of the posters here. This will curb spending big time in Japan. I was in Japan for 15 years. Thought the 5% tax was reasonable. Now I am back in Canada. We have a 13% HST. Let me tell ya. I really think a lot more before purchasing something here. We stay home a lot more. Look for things to do that do not involve paying the 13% tax. Just my 2 cents.
-1

globalwatcherDec. 05, 2011 - 12:43PM JST

@Onniyama, I agreed.

My consumption tax is 7.6%. My income tax (I am retired now) was up to 33% for FICA, FED and State. If Japanese do not want any tax hikes, then PM Noda should hold it back to let them see what is going to happen to them in 3 years. A bankraptcy!! The sovereign debt/GDP is 233.1% is very serious and the way the trend is (math) Japan is on the way to go off the cliff. I am not kidding this.
2

cactusJackDec. 05, 2011 - 02:03PM JST

After they raise the consumption tax to 10%, guess what: they want to raise it to 15% next.
1

Patrick HattmanDec. 05, 2011 - 02:37PM JST

Noda replaced unpopular Naoto Kan as prime minister in September as the third chief executive to take office since the ruling center-left Democratic Party of Japan (DPJ) came to power in a general election landslide in 2009.

The main job of the Noda admnistration is to stay in power long enough to ensure that measures are put in place to raise the consumption tax, in effect meaning that the PM will probably be the one to take the fall for all the others who've passed the yen on this issue over the past decade.
0

sojherdeDec. 05, 2011 - 03:30PM JST

I would like to know with whom Naoto Kan was unpopular as prime minister : with the power companies or with the people?
0

Piltdown ManDec. 05, 2011 - 03:31PM JST

Noda's consumption tax hike plan unpopular

No news there.

But, if the title of this article had been, "Noda's consumption tax hike plan popular" — that would have been news.

I'm glad Noda has the guts to do it. Better now than much harsher austerity measures later.

Nobody wants a tax increase, but with Japan's sovereign debt at well over 200% GDP (much higher than Italy, Greece or anywhere) this is a smart move. It has to be done before the millions born in the baby boom years of 1947 onward all start drawing out their retirement savings.

Rough road ahead, folks.
1

Nicky WashidaDec. 05, 2011 - 03:33PM JST

The money has to come from somewhere, and 5% is incredibly low (go to the UK for a 20% rate!).

You are comparing two different things. The UK tax is a Value-Added-Tax, (VAT), not a sales tax. It is not 20% across all sales - there are many everyday items (fruit and veg, childrens clothes, bread) that are tax free. Other items are at a reduced rate of tax. Therefore it is not as straightforward to compare.
-3

johninnahaDec. 05, 2011 - 04:17PM JST

Why not charge a higher rent for the US bases?

There's quite a lot of income there if they pay per square meter.
0

Shumatsu_SamuraiDec. 05, 2011 - 05:03PM JST

Cricky is correct. 5% and 10% are very low by international standards.
0

tmarieDec. 05, 2011 - 05:46PM JST

Not to mention that the UK also uses that tax for a health care system used by all, not just those who can afford to pay for their health care, free highways where you don't have to pay when you use them... Apples and oranges when you compare what you pay and what you get.

Cut the number of politicians and needless construction, raise luxury tax... so many things they could do instead of raising the tax rate. I don't think this will go through to be honest - Noda knows it will be the end of him.
-1

okimike67Dec. 05, 2011 - 08:10PM JST

All this talk of luxury tax..., why is it those that are successful that are the target of unbalanced taxation?

If they would just enact measures to STIMULATE spending the the current 5% rate would be generating MORE tax revenue. To raise it will effect the exact opposite as spending will decrease though they may be betting that it wont halve therefor they will se a net increase. Really nasty on the masses though!

And daily necessities like food (not alcohol ot tobacco) and perhaps childrens clothes should NOT be taxed.
0

tmarieDec. 05, 2011 - 08:58PM JST

Oki, if they can afford to buy extra things that aren't necessary, why not tax them more? In terms of what shouldn't be taxed, I find it humorous that you excluded alcohol and tobacco - what do you think luxuries means? Add in that both of these cost tax payers a lot when it comes to health care, these should be taxed more - though I am sure you would agree with that.

Leave food (though not crap like snacks, fast food...) alone. Same goes for clothes, books, feminine products, soap, shampoo, medicine...
0

globalwatcherDec. 05, 2011 - 09:10PM JST

Why not charge a higher rent for the US bases?

There's quite a lot of income there if they pay per square meter.

US is not paying for the base. Japanese gvt is paying if I understand your post correctly.
-1

johninnahaDec. 06, 2011 - 08:19AM JST

US is not paying for the base(s). Japanese gvt is paying if I understand your post correctly.

OMG!

Then they must bill them for back rent - and the reikin and shikikin on land of that size will solve the economy in one simple move!

Sorted!
0

2020hindsightsDec. 06, 2011 - 11:37AM JST

"Japan has no choice"

Sure they do. Stop spending money you don't have.

Because it's too late. They have already spent it.

And how about getting all these people paying half a million yen or more a month for their luxury apartments and Ferraris to chip in some more?

With the 10% consumption tax on the Ferrari's and luxury apartments, they will be chipping in some more.
0

2020hindsightsDec. 06, 2011 - 11:41AM JST

I find it humorous that you excluded alcohol and tobacco - what do you think luxuries means? Add in that both of these cost tax payers a lot when it comes to health care, these should be taxed more - though I am sure you would agree with that.

Leave food (though not crap like snacks, fast food...) alone. Same goes for clothes, books, feminine products, soap, shampoo, medicine...

Slippery slope that actually makes the tax haul too complicated and inefficient. Blanket tax on everything and don't make any judgements on what should or shouldn't be taxed. It's arbitrary, often unfair, and expensive.
0

tmarieDec. 06, 2011 - 02:20PM JST

Sorry but no, necessity shouldn't be taxed period. Poor people can't afford to pay the taxes on their basic food needs like the rich - hence taxing fast food and junk food, and things like tobacco and alcohol. While I'm at it, tax pachinko.
0

2020hindsightsDec. 06, 2011 - 05:36PM JST

Sorry but no, necessity shouldn't be taxed period. Poor people can't afford to pay the taxes on their basic food needs like the rich - hence taxing fast food and junk food, and things like tobacco and alcohol. While I'm at it, tax pachinko.

I understand the sentiment, but if you look at countries that create tax schemes like your 'moral tax' or 'I know what should be taxed more than others' then you see they pay for it with a bloated tax office.

No, better to keep the tax simple and give flat handouts to people under a certain wage (unemployed) to cover basic expenses.
-2

tmarieDec. 06, 2011 - 07:54PM JST

The UK and Canada and the like do this. I don't think they have an issue with it.
-5

okimike67Dec. 06, 2011 - 09:14PM JST

tmarie:Oki, if they can afford to buy extra things that aren't necessary, why not tax them more?

WHY??? So because I work hard (or you for that matter), skrimp and save to FINALLY get that which I have longed for AND have already paid tax on my income AND made NOTHING on my savings and you wnat to tax me MORE??

And read my post again, I find it humerous that you post before reading and understanding... I said daily necessities (NOT alcohol and tobacco) should not be taxed.
-5

okimike67Dec. 06, 2011 - 09:18PM JST

tmarie: Poor people can't afford to pay the taxes on their basic food needs like the rich - hence taxing fast food and junk food, and things like tobacco and alcohol

And yet it is the "poor" that are the biggest consumers of fast food, junk food, tobacco and alcohol! And yet us that DO pay tax (subsidising their non-neccessities) should be taxed MORE. Hmmmmm?????

On second thought, just tax EVERYBODY EQUAL with no handouts!!! THAT is fair!
-1

okimike67Dec. 06, 2011 - 09:24PM JST

The UK and Canada and the like do this. I don't think they have an issue with it.

Are you freakin kidding? The DOLE! All we need are more pineapples!

We need to STOP the exceptions and INCENTIVIZE people to be self reliant. You have a kid YOU pay for it, not me caus I have my own to pay for. You get knocked up and not married, not my problem... make the father pay for it!! Oh, you dont know the father... sorry, no handouts! Lost a job, well you have X months of unemployment, PERIOD!!! Find a job, any job, not just one equal or better than what you had!

ALL should contribute to society, all use the sewers, roads, sidewalks, police, fire..... It is everyones responsibility to contribute.
3

DSDec. 06, 2011 - 10:34PM JST

A consumption tax is one of the more fair ways to raise revenue. Simple, hard to avoid, and you pay more the more you consume. Raising actual tax rates on income doesnt usually work. The rich will always find a way to avoid the higher rates through creatve accounting and loopholes.

Raise the tax, cut spending. Means test pension benefits. Raise the age of eligibility. Reduce unemployment benefit times. No more shinkansens to nowhere and dams on rivers with no water. Let banks fail that have too much bad debt instead of propping them up.

The government that governs least governs best.
-1

SerranoDec. 06, 2011 - 10:57PM JST

Any increase in the consumption tax will have a negative effect on the economy and make life harder for many.
2

DSDec. 06, 2011 - 11:02PM JST

Any tax increase will have that effect. And life getting harder is unavoidable. It's a question of when and how bad. There is no way out of the current situation that does not involve pain.
1

globalwatcherDec. 07, 2011 - 04:53AM JST

By considering the dollar (a pegged currency) might continue to decline to Y50-60/$ range in the near future, Japan needs to do this to improve the sovereign debt/GDP ratio of 233.1% now. You did tried GDP growth that has failed. You did tried the public spending cut, but it was not enough. What else is available folks? I appreciate all problem solving posts on this topic seriously.
-1

sfjp330Dec. 07, 2011 - 07:55AM JST

globalwatcherDec. 07, 2011 - 04:53AM JST. By considering the dollar (a pegged currency) might continue to decline to Y50-60/$ range in the near future, Japan needs to do this to improve the sovereign debt/GDP ratio of 233.1% now.

Realistically, this will not happen. Here is the problem. If the yen declines from current $77 yen to 50-60 range per dollar, the real problem is more on the U.S. Japan has currently $900 billion in U.S. treasury, and if they pull out 100 percent of the money, Japan would gain 25 percent or more in exchange rate. This would be $225 billion dollars gain on just on the exchange rate against the dollar without doing anything. Also on the same subject, U.S. does not want the same problem Chinese Yuan. Just like the Yen, Yuan will increase or decrease in value slowly.
0

globalwatcherDec. 07, 2011 - 12:39PM JST

Japan would gain 25 percent or more in exchange rate. This would be $225 billion dollars gain on just on the exchange rate against the dollar without doing anything.

sfjp330, I believe Japan would "LOOSE" the initial investment value in US Treasury. What US is trying to do today is to weakening the dollar value and creating a hyper inflation to get out the debt. FYI
0

tmarieDec. 07, 2011 - 05:12PM JST

Oki, there is no need to bring up other topics like the dole or the child benefits - as I certainly agree with you 100%. I think the highest tax bracket needs to be raised (as I am currently in it and find it laughable). Buy an LV bag and a poor single mom buying diapers should not have the same tax rate.
0

cleoDec. 07, 2011 - 05:28PM JST

the highest tax bracket needs to be raised (as I am currently in it and find it laughable).

You're earning over 18 million a year after deductions? Teaching English? No wonder you're laughing.

I gotta change me jobs.
-1

tmarieDec. 07, 2011 - 06:25PM JST

My mistake on that - I thought it was much lower based on city taxes and what I've been told with regards to childcare and the like - I wish I was making 18 million!!
-3

okimike67Dec. 08, 2011 - 08:02PM JST

>

And why not? 5% (or 10) on 500,000 yen is MUCH more MONEY than 5% on 2,000 yen bag of nappies!!!! Why is it fair to ask them to pay a higher percentage when they ALREADY pay so much MORE?