Obama to make historic visit to Hiroshima on May 27

Now have Abe visit the Arizona Memorial and do the same.

the White House is going out of its way to stress Obama will not come bearing an apology.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who will accompany Obama on the visit, said no apology is expected — or necessary.

“We are not asking for an apology,” Tsuboi told NHK. “All we want is to see him lay flowers at the peace park and lower his head in silence.

I look forward to endless posts about how terrible it is that Obama is going to apologize, and how this is just an evil trick by the hibakusha in league with Nippon Kaigi to trick him into apologizing. :|

Good on Obama, nice gesture.

An electrical engineer student of mine working for a major power company asked me this question last night. I told him, IMO, that he would, cuz Obama is not an honest person and he only cares for his image.

Bingo!

“But that’s [justify or apologize] not what President Obama will do when he visits Hiroshima,” Earnest said. “What President Obama will do is make note of the fact that the relationship between the United States and Japan has emerged stronger than anybody could have imagined back in 1945.”

You can make that point without going to the Hiroshima.

Going to Hiroshima is about maintaining nuclear weapons, or not. Make a point about that.

See, I knew Obama would go. I knew it. This guy wants to portray himself as the friendliest guy in the world, and is now using his last moments as president to try to put himself in the history books as the guy who reached out to the world. From Cuba to Hiroshima...

How funny then, that he chooses to go to Hiroshima at a time when Japan is manned by the most right-wing government in a long time, filled with history deniers and other banzai wielding oyaji.

“I believe that would be a way to respond to the victims of the atomic bombings and the survivors who are still in pain.”

Shinzo will milk this moment... He and his chums will milk it and, even if not officially and apology from the US government, will use it as one. This opens the floodgates of feelings of victimization of the Japanese people and will be viewed by many as an apology.

This is a bad choice.

let history prove me wrong...

Apologizing for atomic bombing would seriously question the legitimacy of that historical decision, create a huge outcry in the US and injure the superpower image worldwide with other string of consequences. This is a smart diplomatic move which will be treated as a formal attempt to mend agony without bowing head.

point 1: obama doing this to get in history books only point 2: the US was the victim of WWII not Japan

@fondofj

the White House is going out of its way to stress Obama will not come bearing an apology.

Did you skip over the whole story or are you trying to alter the discussion?

There was comment on C NBC skipping today's political news telling going to Japan etc. Then a full page of Abe's face and he spoke in his Calf English. I switched channels to catch election gossips but I heard Japanese Prime Minister spoke in English.

point 1: obama doing this to get in history books only point 2: the US was the victim of WWII not Japan

So there can only be victims on one side of a war in your mind? Hardly. Obama is already in the history books enough, I don't think this is about that. I expect he will have a frank discussion with Abe and forcefully ask him to stop visiting Yasukuni, that really makes it hard to co-operate with Korea and China.

My thoughts as an American married to the Japanese woman I Love for over 30 years: I think as time goes on, and hopefully no other Nukes are dropped anywhere, that yes, this actually will become the biggest example of Live and Learn. Germany, Japan, Russia and the USA were all working toward it..... did the most benevolent of them use it first.... we will never know.

President Obama is and will always be a class act. History will treat him very well and the mouth breathers on the right can do nothing about that. Nor can they control how the GOP will be remembered.

randomnatorMay. 11, 2016 - 07:54AM JST

So there can only be victims on one side of a war in your mind?

There is in the Japanese mind.... themselves.

With this visit and the recent one to Cuba, President Obama wants to establish his own legacy that 'what happened in the past not must always dictate how we deal with the future'. Sometimes these chapters in history must come to an end and a new chapter has to begin. He's not going to Hiroshima to elicit an apology for Pearl Harbor or apologize for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think he's going because in his last year in office, he wants 'to shake things up a bit' without being overly defiant. Someone has to break the ice with Cuba and address the 'Hiroshima issue'. He has nothing to lose and, deep down, I think he's really enjoying 'sticking it' to the conservatives in the US. And since he's nearby, why not visit that beautiful city I have myself visited four times, soon to be five on Thursday?

It is a shame that while Obama is courageous enough to acknowledge the bombings as president and to deal with our history in a forthright manner, he is doing so with Abe Shinzo who lacks the courage to confront Japan's imperial past and instead is steeped in revisionism that undercuts the stellar record of pacifist Japan since the end of the war. Obama is sure to engender considerable negative reactions here at home, and his embrace of Abe will be one of the vulnerable points. He should be doing this without Abe but instead with the Hiroshima citizenry directly.

Hopefully he does not apologise, but remember the brave allied soldiers who died to liberate the world and Japan from the evil nationalists.

The president should “use the opportunity to map out concrete actions the United States and other countries can and will pursue to move closer to a world free of nuclear weapons

Ain't gona happen. Nuclear weapons, sadly, are here to stay. Countries like NK and Iran pursue nukes. France, UK, India, Russia etc. . all got em' & won't ever give them up. The US has enough to destroy the entire earth 2-3 times.

Good choice, and no better person to do it than him.

My problem with this visit is that Abe and the LDP will try and use it to score political points and I am not sure that Obama would even make this visit if an Opposition Party was in power and not the LDP.

I look forward to the day the US gets rid of nuclear weapons... that means we have an even nastier weapon in the shadows!!! Lovin it, cant deny that is human nature and technology! Weapons of mass destruction for the win!

Re-read ON THE BEACH by Nevil Shute in 1957 before O & A do their media dance for world camera crews. Sadly, we are stuck with nuke weapons forever. Who's gonna blink? First Japan needs to say sorry to world for starting the Pacific (sic) War.

Here's a huge list of Japanese apologies. Re-read that....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

My problem with this visit is that Abe and the LDP will try and use it to score political points and I am not sure that Obama would even make this visit if an Opposition Party was in power and not the LDP

And what if it backfired and Obama then asks whether Botchan will go visit Nanjing or even Manchuria to campaign against chemical/biological warfare? Ooh, if only!

"70% of Japanese respondents said they wanted Obama to visit, compared to 2% against it."

The other 28% don't care one way or the other?

How funny then, that he chooses to go to Hiroshima at a time when Japan is manned by the most right-wing government in a long time, filled with history deniers and other banzai wielding oyaji.

Shinzo will milk this moment... He and his chums will milk it and, even if not officially and apology from the US government, will use it as one. This opens the floodgates of feelings of victimization of the Japanese people and will be viewed by many as an apology.

@Fuben

My view has shifted in that I am now somewhat in support of Obama's visit (which I think is well-intentioned), but at the same time I am extremely leery of the unintended negative consequences which @Fuben points out above.

Abe, foreign minister Fukuda and numerous government-linked working groups/organizations like Nippon Kaigi (yes @Katsu78) have been aggressively working to whitewash history and paint Japan as solely a benevolent and hapless victim and not an aggressor toward its Asian neighbors. This visit will play into their hands, especially if handled poorly. These are the worst possible revisionist leaders for Obama to have by his side when making this historic visit.

On the other hand, I am certain that it is just a matter of time before nuclear weapons are used yet again (within the next seven decades) by a world leader with the same mindset as Trump — who wants Japan/South Korea to get nuclear weapons, and who recently said, "I will never, ever rule it out" in reference to using nuclear weapons. Eventually, a country armed with nuclear weapons backed against a wall will fire nuclear weapons using the "ends justify the means" argument used to justify the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings, claiming to "save lives" or "put a swift end to a conflict." It will happen.

Therefore, I am now overall in support of Obama's visit to Hiroshima in the name of nuclear non-proliferation, and in the interest of trying to ensure that nuclear weapons are not used again. At the same time, though, I think Obama should publicly admonish the Abe administration for its historic revisionism, and maybe also very publicly visit a site of Japanese atrocities denied by the Abe administration such as the Shinjuku Unit 731 site in Tokyo.

There is in the Japanese mind.... themselves.

If you think that you need to meet more Japanese people. Attitudes like yours are part of the problem, wide blanket stereotype minded ignorance. But thank you for your input.

“All we want is to see him lay flowers at the peace park and lower his head in silence. This would be a first step toward abolishing nuclear weapons.”

What kind of logic is that? The first step to abolishing nukes is to actually start getting rid of them. That ain't gonna happen The U.S.' stockpile of nuclear weapons is here to stay. Pakistan, India, Russia, China, North Korea, Britain, Israel, and France have their share as well. Who's gonna go first? Volunteers?

Another commenter said this could be a way to finally get Abe or whoever to STOP VISITING YASUKUNI. Just the fact that Tojo is memorialized there makes me sick that any J politician thinks it's right to keep dropping off flowers there.

@Sensato: So you think Abe is Obama's servant to be admonished?

Heres the scenario:-

Japan committed horrific war crimes and rape, in order, in their view, to win their part of WWII.

The US dropped 2 atomic bombs on civilian cities causing horrific casualties, in order, in their view, to win their part of WWII.

Japan has since been severely criticised and chased constantly to provide annual apologies for their part.

Nobody seems too bothered to chase the US for annual apologies for their part and the US seems very unwilling to do so anyway.

Someone please explain the double standards.?

So you think Abe is Obama's servant to be admonished?

@toshiko

I think Obama should criticize Abe for his aggressive whitewashing of history, just as Abe has often criticized China's leaders for not respecting international laws, just as many leaders have criticized Obama numerous times his administration has been in the wrong. This is something world leaders should do. It's a good thing.

The act of criticizing Abe would not make him "Obama's servant" (I don't quite get your logic there).

Someone please explain the double standards.?

Japan was the aggressor, and has never properly atoned for their sins. Until they properly atone, they will not be let off the hook.

America was responding to Japanese aggression, and did what they had to do to stop the Japanese. If the Japanese hadn't started it, American wouldn't have needed to finish it. So people don't have the same expectations of the Americans.

There's your explanation.

Only what we can do is avoiding that the tragic thing happens again. I do not wanna hate each other because of what happened in the past. I do not want him to apology even though he is current President of USA, cuz he is not the one who decided to use the atomic bomb and Im not the one who can forgive him.I was not there, Im a "after war generation". According to my grandparents I lost family at the war, Im sorry about that but i cant feel sad so much cuz i ve never seen them, it happened long time ago before i was born. Now almost all of ppl who request apologize for something happened at the war are "after war generation" like me, means many ppl dont have any rights to forgive someone, we were not there. Then what we can do is being sorry to ppl lost their life at the war together and avoiding that same thing happens again together. Its ridiculous hating each other because we dont know.

Too bad. This will set Japan backwards decades more, if that's possible

Thanks for your explanation Strangerland. From your point of view one needs to drop atomic bombs on civilians in order to defeat a nation that caused war crimes.

Nobody is condoning what the Japanese imperial army did. But I find it very difficult to comprehend the logic of chasing one (Asian) nation for apologies for war crimes, yet accepting another (western) nation dropping atomic bombs on people.

The Japanese could use exactly the same argument that you have. That they did what they did in order to respond to stop the Americans.

Your 'explanation' in not acceptable.

I look forward to endless posts about how terrible it is that Obama is going to apologize, and how this is just an evil trick by the hibakusha in league with Nippon Kaigi to trick him into apologizing. :|

Katsu78,

Its already started in this blurb!

“The prime minister of the world’s only nation to have suffered atomic attacks, and the leader of the world’s only nation to have used the atomic weapons at war will together pay respects for the victims,” Abe told reporters. “I believe that would be a way to respond to the victims of the atomic bombings and the survivors who are still in pain.”

As I said in other threads, I think it would be great for a US president to visit, IF Japan deserved it, Japan doesn't imo at this time.

Its big of Obama to go, but I disagree on the timing. He definitely NOT have abe by his side, go alone!

And if there is any talk afterwards Obama had better lay it out some for Japan to STEP UP & deal with WWII history so nukes don't need to be used again.

The visit will do some good, but will also cause some harm & yes Japan is going to milk the hell out of this, Obama I hope your ready to be used!

Thanks for your explanation Strangerland. From your point of view one needs to drop atomic bombs on civilians in order to defeat a nation that caused war crimes.

I don't know about 'need to' - I'm not a military strategist. All I can do is comment on what actually happened, not on what may have been able to happen. And the American's stopped the Japanese aggression with the nukes, there is no denying that. Was it right? That's for each person to decide. Did it work? Yes, without a doubt.

I find it very difficult to comprehend the logic of chasing one (Asian) nation for apologies for war crimes, yet accepting another (western) nation dropping atomic bombs on people.

As I said, it's the difference between one being the aggressor without provocation, and the other responding to being attacked. It has nothing to do with Eastern and Western. America - Western - is strongly condemned for their invasion of Iraq. It's like when someone beats up a rapist or a child killer. Sure, it's technically wrong to beat someone, but that person brought it upon themselves.

The Japanese could use exactly the same argument that you have. That they did what they did in order to respond to stop the Americans.

No they couldn't. The Japanese started the conflict, they only have themselves to blame for having it ended in a manner they didn't like.

What a champ, good on him!

chasing one (Asian) nation for apologies for war crimes, yet accepting another (western) nation dropping atomic bombs on people

@Tigers

I agree with your notion that war crimes by one country is not justification for dropping of atomic bombs by another, but still I take issue with the above. You are framing this as a battle between Asia and the West. As popular a narrative as that might be, this is by no means "Asia vs. the West," not by a long shot.

Neither the U.S. nor any other nations in "the West" are demanding that Japan apologize for war crimes, in fact Abe got a standing ovation when he visited the Republican-led U.S. congress (though many in the West and in Asia would like to see Japan be more honest and not whitewash its IJA past, and stop playing the benevolent victim).

On the other hand in Asia, China and South Korea have been demanding apologies from Japan. Also, China and South Korea would probably tend not to protest the dropping of the bombs on Hiroshima/Nagasaki for obvious reasons.

Brilliant. Dunno if there is a future for Obama at the UN, probably not, but he would have made a great Secretary general. Awesome human being.

The debate over nuclear strike on Japan during WWII will probably never die down. But both countries are very different from what they were in 1945. If Obama's visit to Hiroshima helps bring some closure to the old wounds, and brings the two nations closer together, I for one welcome it.

Obama is damned by going and damned if he doesn't.

Not at all. He would be merely following a long trend established by all US presidents since Truman. If Japan had followed Germany's remorseful example, I would be all for this. But they haven't, and read-between-the-lines inferences will be made. Japanese culture is very good at that. Whether he apologises or not, Obama is about to give the right-wingers a massive shot in the arm.

they will make some "read between the lines" inference that he actually did.

Did you not read the article? From the elected representative of the people of Japan, the guy you just said would do the above:

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who will accompany Obama on the visit, said no apology is expected — or necessary.

How would they infer that an apology was made when they didn't ask for one, they didn't expect one, the clearly stated that they didn't ask nor expect one, and no apology was actually made.

And even if they did, that doesn't change the fact that a visit is the right thing to do.

Doing the right thing isn't the right thing if you attach conditions to it.

Lots of times.

I see you haven't watched "House of Cards". I would say 50/50 on that score. That is the chances that the right-wing won't make hay of this.

Obama is 'being the better man' here by visiting Hiroshima unconditionally.

Better people tend not to win battles, or races. Those who are willing to bend the rules a bit tend to.

Doing the right thing takes away ammo from those who would use the lack of doing the right thing as a bargaining chip

Nope. They will argue that Japan was the victim all along. I think the Japanese people say "kuki wo yomu". Something along the lines of this will be said: "Obama wanted to apologise, but couldn't due to political reasons. But we feel what his heart really meant, that America is sorry for making Japan a WW2 victim". Obama may indeed be trying to do the right thing here. But his visit will be used for propaganda purposes, mark my words. I am willing to be proven wrong here. In 16 days we will know

I see you haven't watched "House of Cards".

I have, but we are talking real-life here, not a TV show.

Better people tend not to win battles, or races.

This isn't a battle or a race.

They will argue that Japan was the victim all along.

The people who are going to argue that are going to argue it whether or not Obama visits. The people who are not holding an unreasonable position, and are open minded, will respect his move for what it is.

his visit will be used for propaganda purposes, mark my words.

Just as a lack of a visit is already used as propaganda by those who would do so. Since there will be propaganda either way, it's better to do the right thing.

For god sakes! What purpose does this serve? The wars over, Japan and the US are great friends, really, what's the friggen point other than a photo op or to better his legacy! I'd rather he visited the family of the wedding party he droned, or the countless innocent civilians all over the ME he's brought so much death and misery to. Or how about he visit our troops and pilots that are now in Yemen...oops, sorry...that didn't make the MSM yet.

Or visit all the whistle blowers he's jailed. My god, some of you make him sound like Jesus...when he's nothing but another warmonger.

BTW, thanks for the 18+ thumbs down...keep'em coming!

“We are not asking for an apology,” Tsuboi told NHK. “All we want is to see him lay flowers at the peace park and lower his head in silence. This would be a first step toward abolishing nuclear weapons.”

How on earth will it abolish nuclear weapons? Visiting Hiroshima and/or Nagasaki does nothing of the sort. It is a symbolic gesture, and one that a good leader would make towards the suffering it inflicted upon others, but it is not a 'step towards abolishing nuclear weapons' at all. In fact, with some Japanese floating hte idea of Japan acquiring nuclear weapons more than ever it is even worse. What it does do, though, is justify the idea that Japan is the victim of WWII in many people's eyes.

TigersTokyoDome: "Someone please explain the double standards.?"

Sure! Everyone in the US KNOWS the US dropped the atomic bombs on Japan to end WWII, there is no debating it, whereas in Japan Japan's atrocities in history are white-washed from textbooks and not allowed in general discussion, so many do not know, and yet still claim it is all lies. The US was responding to Japan's starting a war of aggression, whereas Japan is the aggressor and yet still considers itself the victim.

"Your 'explanation' in not acceptable."

Actually, your QUESTION is unacceptable, especially given that you will not accept any answers that you haven't already pre-formulated in your head, and make syllogisms in reply to all the same. If you want a TRUE example of double-standard, why is it so important Obama visit Hiroshima to see how people suffered at the hands of the US military, but Abe won't even consider visiting the Nanjing Massacre Museum (never mind that many politicians say it never happened and get more popular votes as a result, or that they want monuments dedicated to the victims of Imperial Japan removed, want textbooks in other nations changed, etc.). Do you know many on this board even say the attack on Pearl Harbor was not Japan's fault??

The people who are not holding an unreasonable position, and are open minded, will respect his move for what it is.

Yes, but they aren't running the country, or getting their version out in the media. Until reasonable people are in a position of power in Japan, a visit like this is going to be used for their ends. Naturally I would live for Obama to take Abe aside during a visit to Japan and put him to rights. But that can happen with a visit to Tokyo, not Hiroshima.

"Lead by example."

Let's hope Abe learns. Bringing people together and reconciling are always a good thing. Always.

Yes, but they aren't running the country, or getting their version out in the media.

Please show me where the people who are running the country have been saying that Japan was a victim all along, and that the president should apologize at/for Hiroshima.

I'm no fan of the government, and I believe that the government has a lot of history to atone for. But they aren't the ones who have been calling for an apology, and the elected representative of the people has directly said they don't expect one and are not asking for one.

Unfortunately, the Obama visit is all about justifying the mass murder of civilians with nuclear weapons. The quotes from the The White House in this article tell the whole story.

The White House is going out of its way to stress Obama will not come bearing an apology.>

Deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes said flatly: “He will not revisit the decision to use the atomic bomb at the end of World War II.”>

What government absurdity is next?

And so, many posts later, we still see the standard western point of view. That the US dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a "good" war and passing it off as excusable. Victims of the US excused, with victims of the Japanese highlighted.

This is my argument people. Nobody here is condoning the Japanese imperial army. Or that the US took on Japan in the Pacific War. My argument is that 2 atomic bombs were dropped on civilian cities.

smithinjapan, who not surprisingly takes the usual upper-level of intensity against all things Japanese, negelcts to acknowledge the almost erasing of the atomic bomb on Nagasaki in textbooks in the west. And while smithinjapan bleats on about Japanese textbooks, completely fails to grasp the fact that almost no graphic pictures of injured civilians in Hiroshima appear in textbooks in the west, instead focusing on the distant mushroom cloud image or the Hiroshima dome shell. Kind of distant romantic images in history instead of the graphic truth.

As I said much earlier, double standards by people in the west immediately jumping to so-called good reasons for dropping those atomic bombs on people.

A final point here. If the excuse for dropping those atmomic bombs was to end a war early and potentially save more lives, then why has no other nation on earth carried out the same act in subsequent wars? Bush could have dropped one on Baghdad saving many more lives. Europe could have dropped one on Belgrade. The Brits on Buenos Aires.?

Unfortunately, the Obama visit is all about justifying the mass murder of civilians with nuclear weapons.

There isn't any justification in the comment you quoted whatsoever. There is simply a refusal to address the appropriateness, or lack thereof, either way.

Obama may regret making the visit.

The tradition for US presidents is not to visit these two cities.

i really don't see what logic there is for visiting Hiroshima. in what way will it prevent or eliminate nuclear weapons? how will it address the white elephant in the room: was dropping the bombs really necessary? what about the tangential issue of nuclear reactors in japan? making some grand speech about the horrors of a war 70 years in the past achieves nothing and will be used as fodder by critics both home and abroad. perhaps the memory of being honored with the nobel peace prize lingers in the recesses of obama's brain, and he feels compelled to say or do anything about nuclear nonproliferation. but he can present little if any initiative to do so.

@Strangerland (sorry about the typo). I don't always agree with you.

And the American's stopped the Japanese aggression with the nukes, there is no denying that.

Tabogami denied the aggression part. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/3331691/Japanese-general-claims-Japan-was-not-an-aggressor-in-Second-World-War.html

@Strangerland (sorry about the typo)

No worries.

Tabogami denied the aggression part

Call it what you want (he wants), there is still no denying the nukes stopped Japan.

The guy is a whitewasher for trying to pretend Japan did no wrong though.

And the American's stopped the Japanese aggression with the nukes, there is no denying that.

Going to have to disagree and say it was the Soviet entry to the Pacific war which led to Japan's surrender. In fact if the Americans had held off on using the bombs it's likely the Japanese would have surrendered anyway. Churchill was right in saying the bombs (although hideous) were a facesaver for Hirohito. http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/ Japan had to surrender before the Russians got to Hokkaido. The US can be assured they used - in hindsight - a totally unnecessary weapon. That doesn't mean either that Japan should use the bombs to portray itself as a victim.

there is still no denying the nukes stopped Japan. That too was denied by a number of people in the American military http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-reason-america-used-nuclear-weapons-against-japan-it-was-not-to-end-the-war-or-save-lives/5308192

Tabogami's view is more nuanced than I thought. He does not deny that Japan was an aggressor but denies that Japan was more of an aggressor than the US and UK. His hotel prize winning essay is online here. http://ronbun.apa.co.jp/images/pdf/2008jyusyou_saiyuusyu_english.pdf#

I think that humans need to apologize for and reject the future use of nuclear weapons, in any situation, more strongly before we destroy ourselves and all our descendants.

timtak,

I hope you know tamogami is a raving right wing lunatic of the highest order!!!

I think that humans need to apologize for and reject the future use of nuclear weapons, in any situation, more strongly before we destroy ourselves and all our descendants.

That would be nice, but unlikely to happen in our lifetime. Doesn't change the fact the Soviets tipped the balance.

I think that humans need to apologize for and reject the future use of nuclear weapons, in any situation, more strongly before we destroy ourselves and all our descendants

I couldn't agree more. I'm hopeful.

@timtak

Thank you for posting General Toshio Tamogami's essay whitewashing Japan's IJA history claiming that "It is certainly a false accusation to say that our country was an aggressor nation" and that "many Asian countries take a positive view of the Greater East Asia War."

This line of thinking, and the widespread acceptance of it in Japan, is exactly what worries me about Obama's visit to Hiroshima.

Unfortunately, the essay reflects fairly mainstream thought in Japan particularly among educated people in Japan, and among Abe and other high-level politicians, so much so that the essay itself won an award from the APA Group and was posted to their website. Ironically, the APA Group owns nationwide hotel chain giant APA Hotel which caters extensively to non-Japanese guests, particularly those from China, South Korea and all over Asia.

Here is the Japanese version of the essay (English version is at @timtak's link): http://ronbun.apa.co.jp/images/pdf/2008jyusyou_saiyuusyu.pdf#

timtak: "Tabogami denied the aggression part."

You're not honestly using Tamogami as an example of why Obama should visit Hiroshima, are you??? I really don't think you could have chosen a WORSE example of someone to represent the Japan side of things than that guy.

On Nanjing:

(Tamogymi): "I can declare that there was no Nanjing Massacre," he says, claiming there were "no eyewitnesses" of Japanese soldiers slaughtering Chinese civilians.'

On Sex Slaves:

"He declares it "another fabrication", saying: "If this is true, how many soldiers had to be mobilised to forcibly drag those women away? And those Korean men were just watching their women taken away by force? Were Korean men all cowards?""

And yet, a kind, old man, Mr. Masayoshi Matsumoto, who was 20 years old in Korea at the time of colonisation WAS there and WAS a witness, and considers himself "a war criminal":

""There were six comfort women for our unit," he tells me. "Once a month I would check them for sexually transmitted diseases. The Korean women were mainly for the officers," he says. "So the ordinary soldiers attacked local villages screaming, 'Are there any good girls here?' Those soldiers robbed, raped, or killed those who did not listen to them." Those who were captured were taken to Mr Matsumoto's unit to serve as comfort women."

Tamogami, timtak, claims that Japan was not an aggressor, but a "liberator" of Asia from the Europeans, and that South Korea or China were not colonized but, "invested in". It is unbelievable that you would quote him as a source of how we should all apologise, because the man does anything BUT, and would certainly use Obama's visit to push his own personal ideas all the more. But you DID give us a shining example of the extreme double standards TigersTokyoDome inadvertently requested -- the US leader visiting Japan and a site where the US thousands upon thousands, and how Japan still denies its history of aggression and claims that all it did was liberate, defend, and protect Asia, and all accusations of wrongdoing and fabrications. Well done!

I think that humans need to apologize for and reject the future use of nuclear weapons, in any situation, more strongly before we destroy ourselves and all our descendants.

and while we're at it, let's also hold hands and sing kumbaya around a camp fire. the simple fact is that there are probably less wars today than before BECAUSE of nuclear weapons. small skirmishess will always break out between a few countries, but the threat of nuclear annhilation is what prevents WWIII from breaking out. so reject them all you want but logically speaking they save more lives then they will ever destroy.

timtak - using Tamogami to support your argument! A low even for you!

and while we're at it, let's also hold hands and sing kumbaya around a camp fire.

Yeah, because we all know pessimism and negativity are the driving forces that have moved us forward as a race.

the simple fact is that there are probably less wars today than before BECAUSE of nuclear weapons.

Or maybe, there are less wars today for any of an infinite number of other reasons.

the threat of nuclear annhilation is what prevents WWIII from breaking out.

Not likely. Warmongers will monger, regardless of the thread of nuclear war.

reject them all you want but logically speaking they save more lives then they will ever destroy.

No logic in that. Nuclear weapons have never saved a life. They are not medical tools.

From NHK

He said he wants to make the visit an opportunity for the people of Japan and the US to pay tribute to all the victims.

Just asking, but what do you think he means by "victims". Of the whole war? Just the nukes?

The second sentence:

He also said he believes it will provide great momentum for achieving a world free of nuclear arms.

Yeah right.

In a NHK television poll this month, 70% of Japanese respondents said they wanted Obama to visit, compared to 2% against it.

From NHK again

The poll also asked about restarting offline nuclear reactors in the country.

Around 1,000 people responded.

I'd say the use of that poll here is manipulative.

Looks like I'm gonna break a record today! Thanks everyone.

Strangerland said that Japanese aggression could not be denied. I pointed out that it was denied, by a leader of the Japanese Self Defence force.

I have now read the English version of his essay. Tabogami seems to me to agree that there was an element of aggression in the Japanese occupation of East Asai, but that when compared to Western powers, who had carved up the globe, It was less so bearing in mind the degree of investment and degree of equality which was far greater in Japanese colonies than those of Western Powers. I like his point that if the Japanese themselves continue to see themselves as baddies then the Westernization of Japan will be accelerate, and that this may not be a good thing.

During the Second World war when the Indians were starving Winston “Hindus breed like rabbits” Churchill was forcing them to export grain to the UK. 6-7 million of them died in the last (?) of a long series of such holocausts since Victorian times incidentally http://www.amazon.com/Late-Victorian-Holocausts-Famines-Making/dp/1859843824. Tabogami does not mention the massacre of Indians. For some reason I was brought up to think that Churchill was a nice guy whereas Tojo was an evil criminal. Tabogami seems to strike a reconciliatory note. The whole "blame it on the baddies" (what now the Russians? The Chinese? ISIS?) mentality that persists in the West is lamentable. If only we were as reconcillatory as Tabogami.

I do hope that America apologise, because I hope that nuclear weapons are never used again by anyone.

It takes: you're justifying that you agree with Tamogami on ONE point without taking into account everything else he says. He says "Japanese need to stop thinking of themselves as the baddies" by calling everyone liars, and denying wrong doing. Unbelievable! You evidently feel that the easiest way to stop disagreeing over history is to pretend it never happened and never discuss it -- except Hiroshima, of course. For that someone needs to apologize!

And lest we forget the guy was just arrested a week and a half ago for other illegal activities. Nicely done again, timtak

@timtak:

Former JSDF leader. He was canned because his views were not in line with the government's position. This was clearly written in the article you posted.

You seemed fixated on the investment by Japan around the empire, but it was no more altruistic than say the colonization of India etc. Indeed, several million people died during the occupation of East Asia.

Obama should certainly pay his respects to the deceased, but apologize- no.

As far as Japan is concerned, Obama's intention to visit Hiroshima is just to gain some points for his Nobel Peace Prize without concrete achievement. I'm not a bomb victim nor relative of any kind, but I believe the most of Japanese are not expecting for an apology from the U.S. If you look around the world, there are only two specific nations constantly demanding for apologies for what had happened (or never happened) such a long time ago. So the question is, why is everyone talking about "Obama should not apologize" while Japan is not even asking for it? Besides, one should apologize only when he/she wants to apologize, not because someone ask for it.

Tictactogo: "Besides, one should apologize only when he/she wants to apologize, not because someone ask for i"

Really? So, a murderer, in your mind, should not need to apologize if they don't want to? A kid who commits a crime or harasses another shouldn't apologize?

Tabogami seems to me to agree that there was an element of aggression in the Japanese occupation of East Asai, but that when compared to Western powers, who had carved up the globe, It was less so bearing in mind the degree of investment and degree of equality which was far greater in Japanese colonies than those of Western Powers

Timtak............

OMG!! Is that what you call killing between 20-30million, an "element of aggression" .............I am at a loss for words!

So the question is, why is everyone talking about "Obama should not apologize" while Japan is not even asking for it?

I know. It's strange, but I think there are posters here who love to change the discussion, sit back and watch the fireworks.

Really? So, a murderer, in your mind, should not need to apologize if they don't want to?

Nope. What good is an apology if it's not sincere?

@smithinjapan

Really? So, a murderer, in your mind, should not need to apologize if they don't want to?

If you are a family member of murdered victim, do you really appreciate a word of apology from a murderer who seems to be just saying only because you were demanding for it? If I were in that position, I would just wish for his death penalty or painful torture and wouldn't even want to listen to an apology regardless of his sincerity. As some of other commenter was saying, the most of Japanese are not expecting for an apology from the U.S. because that tragic incident is already overdue for most of people who are still alive today. We should learn from it to prevent the similar tragedy in future, but we should not carry grudge over generations. Besides, Japan appreciates the positive relationship with the U.S. established through several decades after WW2. Anyway, "apology" is just a combination of words to express how sorry he is. It should naturally comes when he really is sorry, and it's not something that others should demand for it. That probably is a cultural difference between Japan and these anti-Japan nations.

At any rate, this is a bad analogy because probably neither you nor I never were engaged in combat during WW2.

A kid who commits a crime or harasses another shouldn't apologize?

You mean "A decendent of someone who committed a crime". Should they be apologizing for their ancestors' sin forever and ever? I'm sure every contries have their dark side of history, so how long should it be effective and who should be making this judgement?

The key issue here is not about Obama apologising. It's clear that won't happen. The issue is how the right-wing will use Obama's visit to Hiroshima for their own ends. I hope the right will do nothing but say a simple thank you, but I'm not holding my breath.

As CrazyJoe says, class act. This is the gesture of a statesman - politics and noise aside.

It's leadership. It's standing above the yapping and the crowd to lead the people.

I salute you sir. I wish you were around for another 4 years.

I mean its amazing, watching the old ladies smug reaction to when he says "if you want to blame anybody, blame your military for what they did" dont even get a response but instead the continued self pity and complaining. That guys voice irritated me then and still does. I can see the US guy is getting irritated, with all the ayamatte kudsai crap.

Ask a Japanese for an apology for attrocities committed in WW2, and see if you get an apology. I seem to remember the footage of Japanese yelling bonzai, grinning ear to ear and a huge celebration on their ship after they bombed Pearl. I remember that vid really infuriated me, brings back memories watching it.

Take notes, Abe.

My post should of been posted on the other Hiroshima thread, was refering to sensatos post and excellent vid.

You seemed fixated on the investment by Japan around the empire,

SmithinJapan brought it up, since it is mentioned in Tabogami's essay.

The situation for Japan is very difficult. From an Asian point of view, the Japanese are an imperial power who killed millions of Asians and should therefore express regret and apology. At the same time, Tabogami's point is that compared to the Westerners (who the Japanese did at the time and still do) who roamed the globe wiping out nations with abandon and without showing remorse to this day, the Japanese are better. But in spite of this today it was the Japanese who are seen as the bad guys, deserving of being bombed, and the Westerners, specifically Americans who still have forces in Japan, who are seen as being the good guys, the liberators, despite for example living in a continent which they recently stole.

The British killed so many people that the historian that I referenced earlier uses the word "holocausts" in the plural but where are the apologies? Where is the sense of regret towards our colonial past in the UK? A British company enforced the sale of tons of narcotics to China, resulting in the deaths of tens (the book I mention above suggests 20-30, Chinese estimates up to 100) millions of Chinese but recently a British scholar wrote a jokey, yes, a jokey book about it. Isn't that chilling? http://www.amazon.com/Opium-Drugs-Dreams-Making-China/dp/0330457489. Tabogami makes no jokes.

I think that tictactogo has a point. Apologies need to come from the person saying them.

I am really sorry. I am really really sorry. I think that what my nation and its allies did is abhorrent, and our lack of regret and continued self-justification worse, because this "good-guy, bad-guy" world view can and does lead to a repetition of the same thing. This is above all what we need to avoid. So, here is to regret, sorrow, and a nuclear free tomorrow.

All readers back on topic please.

I am only sorry we don't have a better man as President, this visit is much overdue but I would rather it were anyone else but him.

let history prove me wrong...

It will.

I look forward to the day the US gets rid of nuclear weapons... that means we have an even nastier weapon in the shadows!!! Lovin it, cant deny that is human nature and technology! Weapons of mass destruction for the win!

The nukes won't ever completely disappear, but the U.S. stockpile has been reduced. As far as "nastier" weapons, we already have them. Remember the 5" folding-fin unguided rockets that were launched enmasse from canister launchers on UH-1 helicopters in the hopes that one or two would actually hit what they were aiming at during the Vietnam War? They're now laser guided to guarantee a hit so they only need one per target:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/apkws-ii-hellfire-jr-hydra-rockets-enter-sdd-phase-02193/

Nukes were developed because the use of entire wings of bombers and hundreds of bombs per run in order to reasonably guarantee the intended target was hit was incredibly inefficient. The nukes allowed one plane to guarantee the hit, but the collateral and environmental damage was unbelievably high. The advent of precision-guided bombs and missiles effectively rendered nukes obsolete, but the nuclear arsenals will never completely disappear simply because humans are both untrusting, and greedy.

@fadamor,

Never say never. If some game changer technology appears, depending on who gets there first, the might become obsolete. Im not scientist, but particle collision is opening up the world of dark matter. Who knows whats on the horizon.

But in spite of this today it was the Japanese who are seen as the bad guys

Yes, the fascist western colonial powers that the G7 represents aren't really better than Japan. But at least they don't deny what they had done.

Not only that Japan hasn't admitted to any of its war crimes, but many Japanese actually believe they are the victims of WWII. Isn't it strange?

Abe's grand uncle, former PM declined various offerings of positions from Yamaguchi ken industrists and used his money to travel all over in world to preach no more atomic bomb and he received Nobel Peace Prize.

Japanese call Truman but never call him President. All others with their official positions.

tictactogo - totally agreed to your point, bravo