S Korea, Japan suspend military exchange program

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  • -2

    CrazyJoe

    Suspend military exchange programs with South Korea permanently, not just temporarily.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    Lee Myun Bak has accomplished what China and North Koea to date have only dreamt of achieving. Maybe its time we pulled our troops out of SKorea and let them fend for themselves since it's obvious they dont give a dam about US policy een though they depend on us to protect them.

  • 6

    Ch1n4Sailor

    @OssanAmerica

    Lee Myun Bak has accomplished what China and North Koea to date have only dreamt of achieving. Maybe its time we pulled our troops out of SKorea and let them fend for themselves since it's obvious they dont give a dam about US policy een though they depend on us to protect them.

    Maybe it's time Japan started teaching some REAL history in K thru 12, and just maybe Japan would actually understand what the rest of Asia is talking about.

    I really love Japan, but I am 100 percent with South Korea, China and Russia on these disputed Island things. This is WHY history is soooooo important, those that fail to learn are doomed to repeat it.

  • 7

    paulinusa

    Tit for tat, like two bickering children.

  • 4

    Konsta

    Ch1n4SailorSep. 04, 2012 - 07:55AM JST Maybe it's time Japan started teaching some REAL history in K thru 12, and just maybe Japan would actually understand what the rest of Asia is talking about. I really love Japan, but I am 100 percent with South Korea, China and Russia on these disputed Island things. This is WHY history is soooooo important, those that fail to learn are doomed to repeat it.

    It is sad, but fake history is taught everywhere. Even in Europe, in arguably neutral and peaceful countries. Many people learn real history, when they meet another brainwashed individuals, but with the opposite imprint of "knowledge". Politicians know the real history, mostly. But they lie and escalate on purpose. Even if it leads to war.

  • -7

    nigelboy

    "Rest of Asia"

    How arrogant. The general consensus of Asia other than China and the two dysfunctional states in the peninsula is that Japan is viewed quite favorably despite the war in the Pacific. Can you blame them? They were under tyranny of western colonial powers for hundreds of years without an ounce if apology or support thereafter.

    I agree. It's time to teach the brainwashed citizens of Korea who have just one government authorized textbook despite calling themselves a democracy.

  • 3

    chucky3176

    This military exchange was dead even before it was started. So there's no point.

  • -7

    YuriOtani

    Yes time to become neutral in the Civil War. Normalize relations with the North in time and prevent the Americans from using their bases in support of South Korea. Strict interpretation of article #9 says Japan can not help anther's aggression. When the North realizes the South can not beat them, they can calm down. If not Korea is not Japans problem, the war is 67 years in the past and it is time to move forward.

    Smith in Japan, sometimes I advocate strict peace. Really why should we support the Souths military machine?

  • -2

    chucky3176

    So, in other words YuriOtani, Japan is going to normalize relations with a pariah state, just so that Japan can get back at South Korea? Good lord, talk about immaturity! If you want to cut off your nose to spite your face, be our guest. It does nothing to change South Korean mind, considering we have a fair share of North Korea sympathizers who also want to do the same thing. But nobody in their right mind, in the world, thinks it's a good ideal to normalize relations with North Korea. If you also want to piss off the Americans, go on right ahead, it doesn't bother anyone in South Korea.

  • 0

    Konsta

    chucky3176Sep. 04, 2012 - 09:12AM JST So, in other words YuriOtani, Japan is going to normalize relations with a pariah state, just so that Japan can get back at South Korea? Good lord, talk about immaturity! If you want to cut off your nose to spite your face, be our guest. It does nothing to change South Korean mind, considering we have a fair share of North Korea sympathizers who also want to do the same thing. But nobody in their right mind, in the world, thinks it's a good ideal to normalize relations with North Korea. If you also want to piss off the Americans, go on right ahead, it doesn't bother anyone in South Korea.

    I think you misunderstood YuriOtani's words, which were very mature. Korean problems are Korean problems and concern Japan only from the point of view of security. This is absolutely true. If the NK will feel less threatened, Japan will also feel safer. It is not the same as taking sides. Also the US will feel better as it is a big headache when Japan, China and South Korea fight out of no reason. Japan does not have to automatically side with South Korea on everything as it has its own interests and safety concerns.

  • -5

    chucky3176

    Konsta, I don't understand your and Japan's thinking here. If Japan thinks this bothers South Koreans in anyway, Japan is sadly mistaking. We just shake our heads. Ultimately, it is up to Japan whether they want to station US troops. I just don't see how this is going to effect South Korea. I believe Phiippines would love those US troops, as well as there have been talks of US marines being stationed in S.Korean north west islands. And US troops in Guam are plenty enough to do the same job. If anything, this only shows the rest of the world, what kind of illogical thinking Japanese have towards the US troops who are there to protect Japan, as if Japan is doing Korea a big favor or something. All I can say is illogical baffoonry and foolishness - all because what? Because LMB insulted the emperor? Good frick'n lord!

    All these actions by Japan, including quitting military cooperation are childish. If Japan wants to really make a statement, then they should cut diplomatic relationship with S.Korea, as your sizable number of Japanese demand, and declare war on S.Korea.

  • -2

    JaneM

    Exactly, Nigelboy.

    It seems that China and South Korea think that the whole Asia supports their hate for Japan. My work involves projects with other Asian countries and I have to say that no other Asian country except for China and Korea has any bad feelings towards Japan. Just the opposite. As you wrote, Japan is indeed viewed favorably by the rest of Asia. During the past several years I have personally heard representatives of South-east Asian countries as well as neighbors of China and Korea express their dislike of the two countries (and China in particular) whose citizens so arrogantly claim that “the rest of Asia” hates Japan.

    Personally, I am pleased to notice that some Japanese companies are already turning their attention to new developing (and growing) Asian markets in their attempt to minimize the negative impact of the unstable relations between Japan and its two neighbors. Hope it will become a major tendency in the future.

  • -7

    chucky3176

    LOL, Japan wants to totally isolate themselves with North Korea, go right ahead. Does anybody care? Nope. I scan the Korean media up and down today, and there are exactly zero stories on Japan. In other words, nobody cares or worries what Japan will do next. It used to be when Japan sneezed, Korea had a violent physical reaction. But now a days, the roles have completely reversed itself, as Japan is the one who's foaming at the mouths. lol...

  • -1

    Konsta

    Chucky, please don't over-dramatize this military cooperation thing. Postponing military exchanges is always done in the situations like this, Always and Everywhere, and it is the Least significant and important response. Truly. Even a student exchange is MUCH more important than this military delegation exchange nonsense. Look at it differently. The Japanese have found (for now) a least hurting way to express their position. They saved their face and did not hurt anything serious. Very clever. Now, the point is not to escalate any further.

    Now, what worries me is how easily, I would say frivolously, you operate with the US troops and help card. It looks like you compete who will faster lure them to fight on either side. American troops is not a solution to all of your problems. The territorial issue must be resolved without the US, or neither of you will decide who will have the territories at the end.

  • -6

    JaneM

    Cn1n4Sailor Historical facts are included in school curricula selectively everywhere in the world. However, I find it strange that some people only blame Japan and never say anything about the hate-Japan education which both China and Korea have been implementing for decades now. Because of that education, whatever apologies Japan makes, they are never up to the standards of either of them. But it is indeed very convenient for them to forget the apologies offered and all the financial help they got from Japan after WWII. After all, the politicians there are always ready to use Japan as a political leverage whenever they deem it necessary.

  • 0

    SamuraiBlue

    My personal prediction of a military conflict on the Korean peninsula, neither the US nor PRC will get heavily invloved. Both the US and PRC has not that large a vested interest in the peninsula like the last war in which it was more of a idealogical proxy war.

    Right now neither have much to gain in pushing one's idealogy to the other and much to lose after the war. So the most both sides would probably do is provide resources and try to contain the war within the peninsula. Russia would probably do the same.

  • -1

    kwatt

    Presidential election is coming soon in Feb next year. He probably wants to show people of S Korea stronger leadership of the country as (he insists that) Japan is still an aggressor of evil country as if the colonial rule is not yet ended. I think both countries would not get along better if S Korea thinks that way ever.

  • -4

    chucky3176

    kwatt, what are you talking nonense? It's Japan saying and doing all kinds of craziness, while S.Korea stands by watching with amusement and WTF look. This includes mass demonstrations in Japan, protesting to cut diplomatic relations, Japanese demanding economic sanctions, kicking out the US troops from Japan who defend Korea (as Japanese think), and ending all exchanges (including the military one - not that it made any difference). It's Japan anting up the rhetorics against S.Korea. OK, President Lee insulted your poor emperor - he shouldn't have done it, but it's been weeks now, isn't it time to get over it? I guess not. LOL...

  • 0

    JanesBlonde

    I think it is the little brother thing. Japan has always held the spot light (for both right and wrong reasons) and for generations it has clearly annoyed Korea who were up until a generation ago, dirt poor farmers.

    Despite Koreas recent economic success, it has to date and probably never will, match Japan in terms of cultural impact on a global scale.

    Korea needs to move on from this childish bickering which has resulted in this move from Japan. There is nothing to gain from this.

    This has become, as the old saying goes, "like watching two old bald men fighting over a hairbrush".

  • 4

    Thomas Anderson

    JanesBlonde

    I think it is the little brother thing. Japan has always held the spot light (for both right and wrong reasons) and for generations it has clearly annoyed Korea who were up until a generation ago, dirt poor farmers.

    Or maybe it has more to do with the fact that you know, Japan invaded Korea and treated them so horribly? Yeah, that may be has to do with it...

    Despite Koreas recent economic success, it has to date and probably never will, match Japan in terms of cultural impact on a global scale.

    But Samsung, LG, etc, are already bigger than Sony, Panasonic, etc. People now own Samsung TVs, not Sony TVs. Korean dramas and K-pops are getting more popular in the world, etc.

    Maybe it's time Japan stopped being in denial that their so called "little brother" has caught up with them, and maybe even surpass them.

    Korea needs to move on from this childish bickering which has resulted in this move from Japan. There is nothing to gain from this.

    Or perhaps you need to stop only blaming Korea, as if only Korea is guilty of this. It takes two to tango. Japan is just as immature and childish as Korea.

  • 0

    Thomas Anderson

    Given how quickly Japan is declining and isolating itself and getting more nationalistic, I wouldn't be surprised to say that in 10-20 years, the situation will be completely reversed.

  • -3

    YuriOtani

    Chucky, South Koreans hate Japanese and by that poll 4 to 1 more than the North. Look I do not wish to die for a hateful South. All the South can do is drag us into their civil war with the North. The Americans will get mad at us but what else is new? Look Japan is not responsible for the Southern Providences in the civil war.

    Lets see, mass demonstrations, well we have the right for internal security. We have prisons for them. Cutting off diplomatic relations, go for it! Our relations will be only with the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea. We will not kick out the Americans just prevent them from using their Japanese bases in the case of war. If the larger rich South can not beat a bankrupt starving North they deserve to lose. Then there will only be a Korea and our competition will be history!

  • 4

    Zenpun

    JanesBlondeSep. 04, 2012 - 10:43AM JST

    I think it is the little brother thing. Japan has always held the spot light (for both right and wrong reasons) and for generations it has clearly annoyed Korea who were up until a generation ago, dirt poor farmers.

    When the second world war was ended, Japan was very poor too. So am China was very poor until 1980s. Now a days Phillpines, Indonesia and Malaysia GDP are roaring like fire. Not US or Europe or Japan! There is nothing wrong about rich become poor and poor become rich. Wealth is a cycle. It is illusion. It is not sustainable like Cherry blossom. There is no law about poor has to be poor forever or rich has to be rich forever.

    Despite Koreas recent economic success, it has to date and probably never will, match Japan in terms of cultural impact on a global scale.

    I am not a fan of South Korea however K-pop and K-dramas are stroming South East Asia like Tornado until now. Japan is successful in consumer electronics and car export. It does not match the deep impact of Korean pop culture export. J Women are crazy about Korean actors like Bae Jong Yang. Not the other way around.

    Korea needs to move on from this childish bickering which has resulted in this move from Japan. There is nothing to gain from this.

    It is true Korea is childish for displaying their national pride for some occasion. For example 2002 world cup hosting name and resending the J government letter, I admit that Japan is more matured than both Korea or China. However, sadly Japan still have war mongering right wing extremists too. They never admitted their war crime against neigbours. History can not be washed like clothes.

    Japan has insecurity about losing export market and high level of unemployment and huge debt. Japan needed to focus more on economy and social issues than confrontation with neighbours.

  • 3

    chucky3176

    YuriOtani, I don't know what you're trying to say here? Die for South Korea, who's asking you to do this? Certainly not South Koreans! Drag you into the "civil war"? The last time you certainly didn't mind when Japan started the whole mess by colonizing Korea, causing a horrible war and massive deaths and destruction, then to top it all off, prosper tremendously from the Korean war which was the result of what Japan did! Now you say "don't drag us to civil war"?? Get outta here, you Japanese have some nerves! Go, ask the US military leave, see if anyone cares if you want to isolate yourselves and wrap yourselves in Rising Sun flags. Like I said, I don't care, nor any S.Korean cares. You are only hurting yourselves. All I can say is it's amusing that Japanese are now saying hosting US troops in Japan is for benefit of South Korea. Simply amusing.

  • 2

    kwatt

    President Lee insulted your poor emperor

    I don't think so. He just honestly said what he has been thinking it in his mind for a long time. That is it.

    it's been weeks now, isn't it time to get over it? I guess not. LOL...

    Yes, isn't time to get over that past miserable days? It seem that S Korea still stays ever in that miserable days in 20th century, or wishes to stay in there ever? We are now in 21st century.

  • 3

    gogogo

    Entirely Ishihara fault, this guy needs to be out of office and quick

  • -3

    latienda

    South Korea should completely and permanently suspended the military exchange program with Japan. South Korea should focus their own national development, defenses and choose a reliable and friendly partner. Japan is a unreliable partner after all.

  • -4

    nigelboy

    The only reason that U.S. is in SK is because they are signatories o the cease fire with NK. SK wasn't even considered as a legitimate state when this was sighned.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    Ch1n4SailorSep. 04, 2012 - 07:55AM JST Maybe it's time Japan started teaching some REAL history in K thru 12, and just maybe Japan would actually >understand what the rest of Asia is talking about.

    Apart from China and the Koreas, the "Rest" of Asia has no problems with Japan.

    I really love Japan, but I am 100 percent with South Korea, China and Russia on these disputed Island things. This >is WHY history is soooooo important, those that fail to learn are doomed to repeat it.

    I doubt that very much. One was illegally occupied unliterally, one was claimed in 1970- only after oil/gas ewas found, and one was invaded and taken AFTER Japan surrendered against the wishes of thhe other alliies. Only a person who " doesn't" love Japan, to ut it mildly, could possibly support the other countries.

  • 0

    Utrack

    This is like the third or fourth article about this military exchange program. We all know that the ROK Govt tried to push it through on the quiet tip to okay the program. But it did not work, the citizens or a party in ROK Govt did not want a military exchange to take place with Japan. Therefore it will not take place.

    ROK and Japan have the same country credit rating now Aa3...

  • -1

    JanesBlonde

    CLEARLY - there are a lot of people who are posting on this forum who like to continually remind everyone that Japan, just like America, England, France, Germany, Spain, Russia and many many other countries over the last two centuries HAD "empire building" ambitions. They ALL did terrible things, just think of Belgium in the Congo.

    The thing is, ONLY when it comes to Japan, do we conveniently "LIVE IN THE PAST" and bring up what happened, started 100 years ago. JUST REMEMBER - Japan was only the "good" side in the first world war. This is because Korea has an inferiority complex. There are different agendas driving anything that comes out of China and it has bigger fish to fry that endless, meaningless squabbles over minor issues with Japan.

    As for Cultural impact, knocked off TV sets, Cars and K-Pop which is re-manufactured J-Pop does NOT equal "Cultural impact". I find it difficult to name one thing Korea has actually "invented". "Cultural Impact" comes from "Culture" not from copying some "other businesses" products and processes.

    Korea needs to focus on "Korea" not on continually comparing itself to Japan. Will it ever do this, I doubt it, it is too ingrained in the Korean psyche. "If we cannot beat Japan or put down Japan then we cannot feel good about ourselves."

    This is a commmon disorder with many individuals, however Korea has perfected enmasse.

  • 0

    JanesBlonde

    Please note corrections to the "auto correct".

    CLEARLY - there are a lot of people who are posting on this forum who like to continually remind everyone that Japan, just like America, England, France, Germany, Spain, Russia and many many other countries over the last two centuries HAD "empire building" ambitions. They ALL did terrible things, just think of Belgium in the Congo.

    The thing is, ONLY when it comes to Japan, do we conveniently "LIVE IN THE PAST" and bring up what happened, started 100 years ago. JUST REMEMBER - Japan was on the "good" side in the first world war. This is whole thing is due to Korea having an inferiority complex. There are different agendas driving anything that comes out of China and it has bigger fish to fry than the endless, meaningless squabbles over minor issues with Japan.

    As for Cultural impact, knocked off TV sets, Cars and K-Pop which is re-manufactured J-Pop does NOT equal "Cultural impact". I find it difficult to name one thing Korea has actually "invented". "Cultural Impact" comes from "Culture" not from copying some "other businesses products and processes".

    Korea needs to focus on "Korea" not on continually comparing itself to Japan. Will it ever do this, I doubt it, it is too ingrained in the Korean psyche. "If we cannot beat Japan or put down Japan then we cannot feel good about ourselves."

    This is a commmon disorder with many individuals, however Korea has perfected enmasse.

  • 0

    Utrack

    JanesBlonde

    The thing is, ONLY when it comes to Japan, do we conveniently "LIVE IN THE PAST" and bring up what happened, started 100 years ago.

    Who is we ??? Don't generalize.. I can take you back past 500 years with greivances and it has NOTHING to do with Japan.

  • -1

    ChessGM

    @ Nigelboy:

    I agree. It's time to teach the brainwashed citizens of Korea who have just one government authorized textbook despite calling themselves a democracy.

    Your comment is right on target. South Korea has for decades operated as a "democracy" in name only. In reality, as shown by various South Korean scholars in the US and UK, South Korea has been a model dictatorship of business interests, and a repressive social and economic system. South Korea's business, government and military interests are deeply interwoven, and have become increasingly formidable in their expansion for capital growth. This is an issue that does not get lost among US diplomats; South Korea is what Japan was in the run to WW2: a non-democratic nation, controlled by an expanding military, and business interests caught in a cycle of profit decline. The bait of "resource nationalism" (the territorial issue with Japan) is but an excuse to expand and dominate through the use of its military, as evidenced recently in the actions of the SK prime minister. Again, this is an issue that does not get lost with US diplomats, and US military folks.

    As I stated in a previous comment in this paper about the low rates of Japanese popularity in South Korea--however they are measured and whatever they mean, I don't think that Japanese have anything to worry about. Their image across the globe, in my circles of finance and academia, Japanese professionals, people and students are well respected. I wish I could say the same for most South Koreans. I became involved on issues of South Korea, in my previous employment, during the Asian economic crisis in '97. Although I was living and working in South America at the time, it was not difficult to see the impact of the Asian crisis in various Latin American cities: large numbers of South Korean illegal immigrants. It was obvious, and it continues to this day, that South Korea, in a change of policy, began to send out desirables and undesirables out of their country--for decades SK controlled these impoverished populations by means of the KCIA and prisons. We call these folks, Pusanitos, playing on the term, Marielitos --the Cuban equivalent for getting rid of undesirable (troublemakers, poor, intelligentsia, etc) populations. To this day you find them from Mexico City to Argentina and across Africa...and continue to arrive by bunches. This does two things for the SK government: 1. It alleviates social and economic pressures 2. Those migrant populations send remittances to their relatives in SK, foreign exchange. One prominent SK academic jokes that Korea's largest exports are--in this order: prostitutes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProstitutioninSouth_Korea) , adoptees, followed by the excess of mediocre PhD's and other professionals, wealthy Chaebol owners living in their estates in Rancho Palos Verdes, and religious nuts.

    In short, they export their externalities to live as leeches in other countries and far away lands. This goes beyond chartering monthly flights to bring pregnant Korean women to give birth in clinics established in Los Angeles (Korea Town). Even in Guam, 2 days ago, ICE found a house where a SK family was running the same scheme: Korean pregnant tourists would stay and give birth to US Citizens--check the local paper. The problem posed by SK immigrants in South America and in Africa have an impact on local populations, already living in poverty, and on the environment. It certainly poses a challenge to folks working to improve the lives of local populations, --the shady business practices of South Korean communities and their interests in these places run contrary to the interests of local communities, and are an impediment to economic development. My former boss, Dr. Kim, now the head of the WB, has brought this issue to the attention of the SK government. He has encountered this very issue in his work in Haiti, Peru and Bolivia. Needless to say, Koreans, whether those are building KIA's in Sao Paulo, operating a sweatshop in the middle of a protected forest in Panama, proselytizing in South Africa, or running a prostitution ring in Mexico City; they are not well liked, and are seen by local newspapers and local populations as leeches and a source of unwanted practices. I wonder what the SK government would do, if these folks were contained at home putting (social and economic) pressure on their own government?

  • 1

    Gurukun

    Whats wrong with sharing these islands?

  • -3

    smithinjapan

    Ossan: "and one was invaded and taken AFTER Japan surrendered against the wishes of thhe other alliies."

    Again? How many times do you need to be proven wrong. The war with Japan was not finished as far as Russia was concerned. They took the islands during war, same as Japan took the Senkakus during the Sino-Japan war. You really, really need to do some fact checking. Russia was not a member of the allies that agreed to Japan's surrender. Why do you not get that?

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    nigelboy: "The only reason that U.S. is in SK is because they are signatories o the cease fire with NK."

    Yeah, that's the only reason, friend. Nothing to do with strategic location or proximity to NK. Your seething hatred of all things SK makes for silly posts sometimes.

  • 2

    yasukuni

    "South Korea and Japan have temporarily suspended a military exchange program"

    Maybe it's just as well. They might have started shooting each other. Things will probably calm down later.

  • 1

    Tom DeMicke

    This is how it all starts. Oh come on, just kiss and make up!

  • -3

    Elbuda Mexicano

    South Korea needs Japan, and Japan needs South Korea, we can all get along, and one day help North Korea see the light too, if big brother Beijing does not mind too much??

  • 2

    Guru29

    But it is indeed very convenient for them to forget the apologies offered and all the financial help they got from Japan after WWII.

    JaneM, for apologies to be taken seriously, you need to admit what you did was wrong in the first place. In the case of Japan, they did say "I'm sorry", but then they also said "but we did nothing wrong, there were no such things as war crimes. In fact, the so called war crimes were all fabricated by you." So, do you take apologies like these as true apologies?

    For example, one of the many war crimes committed by the Japanese is the use of military sex slaves. Japan initially denied their existence but later admitted it and issued an apology for it in the 1990s. However, even after the apology was issued, the Japanese government and Japanese politicians continue to deny this atrocious act and say the so called sex slaves were in fact willing prostitutes who provided the service just for money.

    Now, the S Korean government is bringing up this issue in the upcoming UN General Assembly. I am sure they will receive overwhelming support from other nations.

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    Guru29: "Now, the S Korean government is bringing up this issue in the upcoming UN General Assembly. I am sure they will receive overwhelming support from other nations."

    I was unaware of that. It will prove most interesting indeed, and I have no doubt the J-government will say it is 'very regrettable' (that the issue was brought up). All the same, it'll be fun to see the J-politicians cringing and twisting in their seats, thinking of how they're going to avoid it getting into the Japanese media.

  • 1

    iceshoecream

    China, the Korea's and Japan, they're just a bunch of babies playing adults' games.

  • -3

    SamuraiBlue

    Now, the S Korean government is bringing up this issue in the upcoming UN General Assembly. I am sure they will receive overwhelming support from other nations.

    In which will be a gross violation peace treaty ratifiied in the 60's. They would also require to publish evidence in which many at this forum had pointed out numerous times. In simplest terms they are going to make a fool of themselves in front of the global community.

  • -2

    Chamkun

    Ch1n4Sailor, I am so curious to know why you think it is 100% sure. If you kindly explain with some documented fact proof, I would really appreciate it.

  • -2

    smithinjapan

    SamuraiBlue: "In which will be a gross violation peace treaty ratifiied in the 60's. They would also require to publish evidence in which many at this forum had pointed out numerous times. In simplest terms they are going to make a fool of themselves in front of the global community."

    Already quaking in their boots, I see. How would bringing up the issue be a violation of the peace treaty? because Japan wants to keep it buried? And there has been a LOT of proof brought up, for example the proof of Japanese Imperial troops using sex-slaves provided for Abe when he tried to rescind the apology made by PM Tanaka in the 90's after his claims no Imperial troops engaged in sex with 'comfort women'. Boom. That was soon before he got his tummy aches and had to quit.

    No, friend, the only fools are the people who will try and deny the truth of the matter.

  • -4

    issa1

    To JaneM - Cn1n4Sailor Historical facts are included in school curricula selectively everywhere in the world. However, I find it strange that some people only blame Japan and never say anything about the hate-Japan education which both China and Korea have been implementing for decades now. Because of that education, whatever apologies Japan makes, they are never up to the standards of either of them. But it is indeed very convenient for them to forget the apologies offered and all the financial help they got from Japan after WWII. After all, the politicians there are always ready to use Japan as a political leverage whenever they deem it necessary.

    To JanesBlonde - Please note corrections to the "auto correct".

    CLEARLY - there are a lot of people who are posting on this forum who like to continually remind everyone that Japan, just like America, England, France, Germany, Spain, Russia and many many other countries over the last two centuries HAD "empire building" ambitions. They ALL did terrible things, just think of Belgium in the Congo.

    The thing is, ONLY when it comes to Japan, do we conveniently "LIVE IN THE PAST" and bring up what happened, started 100 years ago. JUST REMEMBER - Japan was on the "good" side in the first world war. This is whole thing is due to Korea having an inferiority complex. There are different agendas driving anything that comes out of China and it has bigger fish to fry than the endless, meaningless squabbles over minor issues with Japan.

    As for Cultural impact, knocked off TV sets, Cars and K-Pop which is re-manufactured J-Pop does NOT equal "Cultural impact". I find it difficult to name one thing Korea has actually "invented". "Cultural Impact" comes from "Culture" not from copying some "other businesses products and processes".

    Korea needs to focus on "Korea" not on continually comparing itself to Japan. Will it ever do this, I doubt it, it is too ingrained in the Korean psyche. "If we cannot beat Japan or put down Japan then we cannot feel good about ourselves." This is a commmon disorder with many individuals, however Korea has perfected enmasse.

    In the midst of so many anti-japan posters, it's good to know there are people who know of real story

  • -2

    nigelboy

    Yeah, that's the only reason, friend. Nothing to do with strategic location or proximity to NK. Your seething hatred of all things SK makes for silly posts sometimes.

    No. That's pretty much it since the cease fire was executed between U.S. and NK for there are still issues pending under the armistice agreement.

    Korea's only card left is the "comfot women" issue in which they are contemplating on bringing the issue to the General Assembly. Thank god. Let's take it out in the open about the fact that there are no evidence to support the surving Korean confort women claims while at the same time expose their current overseas prosittution problem as well as the fact that settlement has been completed in 1965. Japan might just simply respond by stating "Take it to ICJ".

  • -1

    smithinjapan

    Issa: "However, I find it strange that some people only blame Japan and never say anything about the hate-Japan education which both China and Korea have been implementing for decades now. "

    Any hate education is wrong; I doubt anyone would deny that. But the question is WHY they do it? It's certainly not because Japan has been truly apologetic and tried to make amends -- instead they deny their history and claim to be victims. Hence, the hate. It's a two-way street, not a one way street. It seems the government of Japan would rather try and ride it out and hope everyone forgets than actually try to make amends, and therefore you have the equal amount of vitriol and hatred from Japan's neighbours.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    nigelboy: "No. That's pretty much it since the cease fire was executed between U.S. and NK for there are still issues pending under the armistice agreement."

    So you're saying NK doesn't pose any threat to any one? You really dropped the ball on this one, my friend.

    "Let's take it out in the open about the fact that there are no evidence to support the surving Korean confort women claims while at the same time expose their current overseas prosittution problem as well as the fact that settlement has been completed in 1965. Japan might just simply respond by stating "Take it to ICJ"."

    Yeah, no evidence, save what you deny exists. Again, though, didn't you blame Koreans for the comfort women issue calling them willing prostitutes and saying South Korea still 'sends' prostitutes to other countries? Wasn't that your response to the sex-slave issue in the past?

  • -1

    SamuraiBlue

    @smithinjapan

    Here are the most important cluse within the normalization peace treaty signed between Japan and ROK

    " 両締約国は、両締約国及びその国民(法人含む)の財産、権利及び利益並びに両締約国及びその国民の間の請求権に関する問題が、完全かつ最終的に解決されたこととなることを確認する(個別請求権の問題解決)。"

    " 一方の締約国及びその国民の財産、権利及び利益において、一方の締約国及びその国民の他方の締約国及びその国民に対するすべての請求権であって1945年8月15日以前に生じた事由に基づくものに関しては、いかなる主張もすることができないものとする(相手国家に対する個別請求権の放棄)。"

    By bring any matter that had been covered under the treaty in an international assembly is a as I had wrote before a gross violation of the treaty. As long as ROK was barking within their own borders it was considered a domestic problem but once taking it into the international arena it becomes an international incident.

    ROK is really digging a hole they can't climb out.

  • -2

    nigelboy

    Any hate education is wrong; I doubt anyone would deny that. But the question is WHY they do it? It's certainly not because Japan has been truly apologetic and tried to make amends -- instead they deny their history and claim to be victims. Hence, the hate. It's a two-way street, not a one way street. It seems the government of Japan would rather try and ride it out and hope everyone forgets than actually try to make amends, and therefore you have the equal amount of vitriol and hatred from Japan's neighbours.

    Again, Japan simply not agreeing to the contents of Korean's distorted ONE government authorized textbook is not "denying history". The party that's denying history are the ones who shut any dissenting opinions made by Korean professors by simply labeling them 친일파 (An Byeong-jik ,Lee Yong-hoon)

  • 0

    shanabelle

    Good start, (for the amount of vitriol over the years why share vital information with neighbors you both envy, detest....and fear) and while we are at it please please suspend the import of those woeful Korean dramas!!

  • -1

    SamuraiBlue

    LoL, sincere apology?

    Cry me a river. It's more like the SK government using the problem as leverage enforced by a biased court.

  • -3

    nigelboy

    All the women want is a sincere apology, instead of some contrived bull-crap and a few pennies, and the people of Nanjing and other atrocities more than welcome the former soldiers who come, cry, and beg forgiveness because unlike the apologies, or attempted rescinding of said apologies by current PMs, it is honest, and genuine. But then there are people like you, who blame the women for the sexual slavery, and therefore cause reciprocal hatred and denial among Japan's neighbours while claiming to be victim. It's simply amazing you blame sex-slaves for their sexual slavery, and pretend like the troops were the victims (if you acknowledge it at all, that is). People who do that are literally sick.

    Apology business once again. Why should the current government apologize to these women based on heresay testimonies where the accused is an individual(s) where none of them could even identify them? Should U.S. government apologize for the rapes during Iraq's occupation whereby it's subsequenly placed on the textbooks? How about any rapes done by the military personnel? Should the head of state apologize every time that this happens and subsequently place the events in children's textbooks?

  • 0

    YuriOtani

    I have argued for Japan to drop claims to the rocks. However it will not be enough, nothing Japan has done has been enough. Then again there is a historical hatred of Japanese by Koreans. It started long before the annexation of Korea by Japan. I just do not see the road forward when the southern Koreans block progress at every turn.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    It appears Korea has cancelled the portion of their military exercize where they were planning to land on Takeshima.

    According to them, they were concerned about the current on going tensions between the two nations.

    http://www.47news.jp/CN/201209/CN2012090401002058.html

    Little late Korea.

  • 0

    SamuraiBlue

    YuriOtani

    That is not quite ture since the 朝鮮通信使 during the Edo period were welcomed warmly and were paraded all the way to Edo.

    I believe the problem lies within the big brother/little brother analogy where Korea believe that they are the elder brother placing them in a superior position within state based Confucianism.

    They cannot tolerate the "younger brother" Japan being superior in any genre whether it be sports, economy, science,culture,etc. showing how inmature their culture is as a whole.

  • 0

    SamuraiBlue

    nigelboy

    If SK did go through with it, it could be taken as a provacation of war declaring that Japan is a potential threat against SK.

    USA would certainly not take those actions kindly nor would the rest of the world.

  • 1

    YuriOtani

    sfjp330, this happened over 67 years ago before most of us were born. Korea has to move forward and stop thinking about the past. We the people of modern Japan are innocent of the crimes of our ancestors.

  • -7

    just-a-bigguy

    Well done President Lee MyungBak ! Your brilliant stragtegy has impressed everyone , you concealed your true intentions for years and strike back like a raid! I hope your continue working between China and North Korea together with SK for the better future and peace of the Korean peninsula! Your soul was filled with 'gallants'!

  • -7

    just-a-bigguy

    Japan punish SK in an economy level of prossible economic sanctions, South Korea retaliates in the security level that is vital for Japan's survival! How naives wa sthe Japanese diplomacy and I want to ask does Japan has 'intelligences' gathering in South Korea, why would they know nothing about Lee's personalities? It seems Japan is guessing everything including their security issues!

  • -2

    kwatt

    Japan punish SK in an economy level of prossible economic sanctions, South Korea retaliates in the security level that is vital for Japan's survival! How naives wa sthe Japanese diplomacy and I want to ask does Japan has 'intelligences' gathering in South Korea, why would they know nothing about Lee's personalities? It seems Japan is guessing everything including their security issues!

    Do you think that what Japan did is economic sanctions? Not at all. Japan just stopped the useless support because S Korea does not need such useless support from Japan in the first place. They said that S Korea can surely do better without Japan's anything. It seems that S Korea wishes that way. So no sanctions and no offense.

  • -3

    latienda

    kwattSep. 04, 2012 - 11:30AM JST

    (President Lee insulted your poor emperor I don't think so. He just honestly said what he has been thinking it in his mind for a long time. That is it.)

    NO. President Lee is not insulting the poor emperor of Japan. President Lee just wanted to remind and give advice to the latest Emperor of Japan to apologize what his Father Emperor have done to the peoples of Asia's and Korean.

    kwattSep. 04, 2012 - 11:30AM JST

    (it's been weeks now, isn't it time to get over it? I guess not. LOL... Yes, isn't time to get over that past miserable days? It seem that S Korea still stays ever in that miserable days in 20th century, or wishes to stay in there ever? We are now in 21st century-)

    Yes we are living in the 21st century. But the Asians victims from Japan atrocities still reading the original and real history textbook. How can you expect that the Asians, the victims of Japan atrocities will forget those HORROR and TERROR that Japan committed crimes against them. Besides, the Japanese can't forget those Class B-C,and A war criminal was their hero.and revising history to escaped their evil deeds. Could you expect the Asians people will just close their both eyes and forget?

  • 1

    kwatt

    Could you expect the Asians people will just close their both eyes and forget?

    Most Asian countries already accepted Japan's sincere apology except Korea and China. That's why Japan have been supporting Asian countries' economy including S Korea and China for decades since San Francisco Treaty and at that time Japan had to do it anyway after the Treaty. Japan now have much better relations with most Asian countries because they do not hate japan and they do not teach hatred except S Korea and China. Whatever crimes Japan did in the past, that is a past history now whether you like it or not. So you can't stay ever in that miserable days in 20th century. Move on!

  • 0

    Athletes

    JanesBlondeSep. 04, 2012 - 01:12PM JST

    Please note corrections to the "auto correct". "Does auto correct mean repeating same paragraph twice?"

    The thing is, ONLY when it comes to Japan, do we conveniently "LIVE IN THE PAST" and bring up what happened, started 100 years ago. JUST REMEMBER - Japan was on the "good" side in the first world war. This is whole thing is due to Korea having an inferiority complex. There are different agendas driving anything that comes out of China and it has bigger fish to fry than the endless, meaningless squabbles over minor issues with Japan.

    World War II was ended in 1945. It still has less than 100 years. Of course all nations have to move on instead of criticizing each other. Your comment was not balanced and too harsh. How on earth you criticize the proud civilization nation having an inferiority complex. Culturally and linguistically, both Japan and Korea inherited many elements of ancient China. Japan written form Kanji and Korean Hanja were simplified old Chinese written characters. Ancient Japanese and Korean art and craft, architecture, music, food and philosophy were inherited and influenced by old China. It does not mean Japan and Korea are inferior than China. They adopted and innovated many art and skills. For example Japan is very strong in sword smith. Korea is very strong in making kitchen chinaware. Chinese dragon has five fingers, Korean one has four fingers and Japan one has three fingers. It is an illustration of culture impact of three neighbors. Sadly that nations are not best friends of each other because of territory dispute and historical bitterness. However there are some development of trade and natural disaster co-operation. Let 's hope time will heal the old wound like Norman and Saxon of old England.

    Korea needs to focus on "Korea" not on continually comparing itself to Japan. Will it ever do this, I doubt it, it is too ingrained in the Korean psyche. "If we cannot beat Japan or put down Japan then we cannot feel good about ourselves." This is a commmon disorder with many individuals, however Korea has perfected enmasse.

    In the reality, Korean brands are not much popular in Japan. It is very hard for them to sell one TV or Car of Korean made.Therefore Korean business are more interested in China, India and other emerging economy. Japan market has already matured. Market is also smaller comparing with China or India. If someone interested in Japanese market, he or she may be from another planet. For flat TV market, Samsung has already won the domination of world wide market. For example, Hitachi and Panasonic are withdrawing from consumer electronics. Sony is still popular however their market share is smaller. Although Japanese electronic products are excellent, they are uncompetitive in cut throat market due to the higher Yen.

    Back in 1960s, Japanese products were inferior than now. There is nothing wrong about competing and innovating of products. According the market economy, strong will survive and weak will be out of business. Poor cousins are getting richer and sophisticated now. Japan has to be more innovative and competitive rather than criticizing others. It is time to move on for solving high unemployment, high souvenir debt and restructuring the economy.

  • -2

    charlie2222

    I am an American who lived in Japan for 8 years. I love certain aspects of the culture and hate a lot of it as well. While I was in Japan, we rotated through 6 or 7 prime ministers. Why? The Japanese citizens and gov't officials are unhappy with the current state of affairs in Japan, so they realize they need a change. So they decide to replace the PM. Once a new PM comes in and tried to effectuate a new policy change, the Japanese say no! I have never seen a culture that is so unwilling to change and stick to their old ways. I have never seen a culture that is so afraid to move outside the box. I never met a group of people who avoid embarrassment at all costs. Just to give an example of this, is about 5 years ago when there was a drunk kid who fell off the subway platform and was unable to get himself back up. A Korean kid arrived to the same platform shocked by what he saw...a platform packed of Japanese people ignoring this Japanese kid who was going to die if he did not get back up. Who goes in and saves him??? The Korean kid. About 10 years ago, a very similar even occurred, but the result was tragic. The Korean kid died while trying to save the Japanese kid.

    With this attitude, Japan will continue to spiral down into deeper economic woes and further political isolation. Its been going on for the last 20 years and will continue.

  • 0

    JaneM

    In the case of Japan, they did say "I'm sorry", but then they also said "but we did nothing wrong, there were no such things as war crimes. In fact, the so called war crimes were all fabricated by you." So, do you take apologies like these as true apologies?

    If you can give any proof that Japan realy said that all the war crimes were fabricated by SK, I will not argue with you on this point. However, after the end of WWII there was a War Tribunal, known as the Tokyo Trial, in which war criminals were sentenced to death and consequently executed for what they had done. So I wonder how a country which sentenced and executed its war criminals can say that the war crimes were fabricated by another country.

    My heart aches for those women who did not prostitute willingly (let's be objective - there were also many who did it for the money they were paid to do it). But regarding this issue, there are a few logical questions:

    1. Where is the money which was given as compensation (including compensations for the women in question) by the Japanese government in 1965?
    2. Were those women ever informed that the Japanese government had paid compensations for them to their government?
    3. Since compensations were paid in 1965 and a piece agreement between the 2 countries signed, why does SK still insist that Japan has to sincerely apologize? Doesn't this raise the question about the corruption of the SK government at the time?
    4. What woman really wants to be called sex slave in front of/by the whole world? If the issue is so painful for them as it would be for every woman in their situation I doubt they want the world to call them sex slaves. This looks more like an issue raised by the S Korean government every time they need to improve their ratings or distract the public from domestic problems.
    • Moderator

      Readers, please stay on topic. The sex slave issue is not relevant to this thread. Please focus your comments on the isle dispute.

  • -1

    JaneM

    NO. President Lee is not insulting the poor emperor of Japan. President Lee just wanted to remind and give advice to the latest Emperor of Japan to apologize what his Father Emperor have done to the peoples of Asia's and Korean.

    So once again, if his father already apologized for what Japan had done to the People of Asia and Korea why should the present emperor apologize too? Such attitude/comments only prove that whatever Japan does it is never enough for those two neighbors of hers.

    South Korea and China are not the whole Asia. The other Asian countries have no problem with Japan and its history for that matter.

  • -1

    Hikozaemon

    It's hard to have military exchanges with a country that was just a week ago planning military exercises based on a scenario that your friend exchange country partner is the enemy.

    I hope someone in DPRK is getting news on all this - if they just release the remaining abducted Japanese, they can get a whole bunch of money, diplomatic ties and probably even set up the military exchanges that the South doesn't want. I actually think this is a great time for Japan to forge the kind of friendly ties with DPRK that the South is proactively abandoning.

  • 0

    Guru29

    If you can give any proof that Japan realy said that all the war crimes were fabricated by SK, I will not argue with you on this point.

    Then could you point out what war crimes have Japan really admitted and took actions to ratify their wrongs?

  • 1

    Guru29

    However, after the end of WWII there was a War Tribunal, known as the Tokyo Trial, in which war criminals were sentenced to death and consequently executed for what they had done. So I wonder how a country which sentenced and executed its war criminals can say that the war crimes were fabricated by another country.

    I think you have mistaken Japan as Germany. The fact is Japan have never punished any Japanese for war crimes committed on other people. The Japanese government did not even punish the Japanese who gang-raped and murdered Korean Queen Min, not to mention war crimes committed on ordinary peoples.

    All the Japanese war criminals were in fact tried and punished by the Allies. The Japanese government responded to this by getting 1,068 Japanese war criminals enshrined in the Yasukuni War Shrine where people who died for God (Japanese Emperor) were deitified as kami. Every year, hundreds of elected Japanese legislators, sometimes including Prime Minister and Ministers will come and worship or pay their respect to these kami. That is how war criminals are treated in Japan.

    If you are interested to know more, I will recommend you to read the following articles:

    http://www.macalester.edu/~tam/HIST194%20War%20Crimes/documents/AJR27Honda.htm Has Japan apologized? Have reparations been paid?

    http://www.jpri.org/publications/workingpapers/wp11.html America's Favorite War Criminal: Kishi Nobusuke and the Transformation of U.S.-Japan Relations

    http://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1034&context=annlsurvey Yakuza: The Warlords of Japanese Organized Crime Pg 13-14

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