S Korea's Lee says Japan must settle colonial-era grievances

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  • 15

    Alohano

    Is it an election year in Korea?

    Settlement's all done, over, history....everything else is political rhetoric.

    Yada, yada, yada

  • 11

    TigersTokyoDome

    'I'll go and make a troublemaking political visit to a disputed island which we own anyway, and then blame it on the opposing side.'

    What does he want the Japanese to settle? Korea have possession, which Japan disputes, so what exactly is he expecting to change from the Japanese point of view?

    Lee accused Japan of ignoring demands to resolve issues arising from its harsh 1910-45 rule over Korea, such as women forced into sexual slavery for Japanese troops during World War II.

    What exactly do these nations (Korea, China) want from the Japanese? They keep harping on about 1910-1945, yet the present Japanese government have no connection with what happened way back then. When will these countries just drop it and get on with life in 2012? They seem more concerned with things that happened way back in history then present day relations with their neighbours.

  • 15

    alimel1969

    >

    Apologies have been made time and time again.

    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan>

    Seems the Koreans have a hard time acknowledging it.

    President Lee also called on Japan to act like a big nation and take responsibility for its past misdeeds.

    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/08/116_117305.html

  • 13

    TigersTokyoDome

    The Koreans have a real aggressive chip on their shoulders about Japan. Remember the flag on the pitching mound incident during the world baseball classic? The Japanese had two atomic bombs dropped on them, Tokyo was firebombed, and they were marshalled by the USA until the 70's. Yet the Koreans have far more of a complex about the war than the Japanese. Korea and China still feel embarrassed that Japan was the powerhouse of that region and controlled parts of Korea and China.

    Try living in Korea with a Korean girlfriend and see how you get treated. The Japanese have integrated far more with the rest of the world.

  • -13

    ohayo206

    why does everyone make a big deal about this rock.... who cares. how does really affect the average citizen of both countries. absolutely nada.

  • -6

    sfjp330

    The Japanese Meiji government made it clear in 1877 that Ulleung Island and Dokdo were Korean territory, saying they had nothing to do with Japan. Meiji government incorporated Dokdo into Japanese territory in 1905, even it recognized the islands as belonging to Korea. Historical records show that Japanese officials carefully studied whether it would be appropriate to include Ulleung Island and Dokdo as their territory upon an inquiry from Shimane Prefecture, but concluded that they are not part of Japan. Still, Japan pushed Dokdo’s annexation to Shimane Prefecture in 1905 as part of its move to install its military facilities in major strategic areas on the Korean Peninsula. The Russo-Japanese War provided Japan with an opportunity to secure Dokdo, for strategic military purposes. Dokdo was the first Korean territory to be colonized and the last piece of land to withdraw its unlawful occupation.

  • -5

    ohayo206

    Everyone spouts history like its straight out of wikipedia. What does it mean for today's average citizen? Is it going to create more jobs? Put more food on the table? Allow an average citizen to buy a new car?

  • 2

    Graham DeShazo

    Yes, because getting your adversary to behave reasonably works so much better when you behave like an irrational idiot. Oh wait, That is what the North does as well. Maybe it's a Korean thing....

  • 5

    Schopenhauer

    It is an option to give the tiny islands to South Korea if their endless anti-Japanese feelings will end by that. But it will never cease.

  • -10

    sfjp330

    If Japan is so right, why does U.S. maintain neutrality on the issue of sovereignty of Dokdo? Recently, the U.S. listed Liancourt Rocks under the administration of the Repbulic of Korea. The incorporation in 1905 by Japan was illegal. Before then, there have been no Japanese claims. If japan bases its claims only on the 1905 incorporation, there is no need for Korea to rely on the opinion of the U.S. or the international community.

  • 0

    ohayo206

    All those corporate exec's and government officials are so glad citizens of both nationalities are so wrapped up about this dumb rock. Please ignore the wasteful spending & scandals.

  • 8

    KariHaruka

    Lee accused Japan of ignoring demands to resolve issues arising from its harsh 1910-45 rule over Korea, such as women forced into sexual slavery for Japanese troops during World War II.

    Stop ignoring the fact Japan gave compensation which was supposed to of been distributed to the victims but instead was spent on personnel greed.

  • 2

    Farmboy

    Pro Korea side: http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=060000&biid=2012081422708 Pro Japan side: http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.html

    Choose your flavor.

  • 2

    OssanAmerica

    Does the South Korean government even recognize that a treaty was concludeed in 1965? Are the Korean people even aware of it's existence? All the positions taken by South Korea are as if that never happened. Did South Korea sign that treaty in bad faith?

  • -2

    waltery

    Korean Side: I need to lift my public profe. Japan Side: We need to build national pride. The Rocks: No comment.

  • 5

    OssanAmerica

    sfjp330Aug. 14, 2012 - 08:12AM JST If Japan is so right, why does U.S. maintain neutrality on the issue of sovereignty of Dokdo? Recently, the U.S. listed >Liancourt Rocks under the administration of the Repbulic of Korea.

    Because both Japan and South Korea are allied countries with whom we have defense treaties and in order to maintain a united front against our common adversaries, we do not take a position on sovereignty. But you should not forget that South Korea claimed thes vrocks in defiance of the Rusk papers, so it went agaist the US in doing so. Listing any territory as "under the administration of..." is not the same as "property of..". We also list the Northern Territories(southern Kuriles) as Japanese territiryu under Russian administraion. Sometimes we even use the word occupation.

    The incorporation in 1905 by Japan was illegal. Before then, there have been no Japanese claims. If japan bases its >claims only on the 1905 incorporation, there is no need for Korea to rely on the opinion of the U.S. or the international >community.

    Then South Korea should go to the ICJ and present that argument. Far more constructibe that individuals posting it on websites.

  • -3

    CrazyJoe

    If you google earth "Liancourt Rocks" , it's part of Ulleung County, South Korea.

  • -10

    sfjp330

    OssanAmerica Aug. 14, 2012 - 08:30AM JST But you should not forget that South Korea claimed thes vrocks in defiance of the Rusk papers, so it went agaist the US in doing so.

    Rusk papers? Is that the best argument you can do? This is a joke. None of Rusk’s opinions were made public nor conveyed to the Japanese government. In fact, they weren’t made public until decades later. So what does it matter? Rusk papers never materialized in official U.S. support for Japan’s claim to Dokdo. Rusk’s views were just one phase of America’s policy toward Dokdo that would later change into a neutral stance on the issue.

  • 4

    rogoteye

    Treaty on Basic Relations between Japan and the Republic of Korea (1965)

    It's beyond me why they act as if this never happened... What do they teach people in SK?

  • 2

    Farmboy

    If you google earth "Liancourt Rocks" , it's part of Ulleung County, South Korea.

    Crazy Joe,

    And it says,

    It consists mainly of the island of Ulleungdo, but is held to cover a total of 44 islands, including Liancourt Rocks (Dokdo), which is contested by Japan and North Korea. All of these islands lie within the Sea of Japan (East Sea).

  • -14

    Elbuda Mexicano

    A bunch of rocks in the middle of the water?? WHO CARES!!

  • -8

    Elbuda Mexicano

    I want to see the South Koreans try this with NORTH KOREA!!

  • -17

    Spidey

    I have to agree with Korea's reason for doing this. Japan's inability to act and follow up is both an international and a domestic problem. Kudos to Korea for wanting Japan to get off its lazy ass. Japanese government needs to grow up and take responsibility for its action and inaction.

    S

  • 0

    Farmboy

    A bunch of rocks in the middle of the water?? WHO CARES!!

    Well, clearly, a lot of people care... Little things like this lead to bigger conflicts, so it would be nice to settle it peacefully.

  • 5

    fds

    It's beyond me why they act as if this never happened... What do they teach people in SK?

    ROK teach their people not to honor their promises if it suits them. if you have done business with ROK companies, you'll know what i mean.

  • -6

    sfjp330

    The Koreans were not notified of the Dokdo annexation in 1905, when Korea had already become a Japanese colony and had no power to protest the Japanese government's actions. The Japanese claims of this incorporation is invalid because it was done secretly and violates international laws. Japan did not contact other countries of its annexation of the Liancourt rocks.

  • -1

    jomonjeulmun

    A bunch of rocks in the middle of the water?? WHO CARES!!

    That's exactly why it doesn't matter who controls the islands. The islands themselves have no economic value. Japan can go into the waters around Takeshima and begin surveys or what not and it will be the Koreans that will have the burden of keeping the Japanese out.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    The Japanese Meiji government made it clear in 1877 that Ulleung Island and Dokdo were Korean territory, saying they had nothing to do with Japan. blah blah blah

    False. It stated that Ulleungo Island and another outside island without giving it a name. Anybody with more than two brain cells can figure out that it's most likely Jukdo, an island (which is much bigger than Takeshima) adjacent to Ulleungdo.

    The Russo-Japanese War provided Japan with an opportunity to secure Dokdo, for strategic military purposes

    This makes sense. Rather than have the Navy request the central governent to incorportate it, why not ask a fishermen request the Interior ministry to incorporate them. (sigh)

  • 0

    CrazyJoe

    @Farmboy

    I'm referring to google earth and not google search. Google earth makes no statements. It just shows the location.

  • -1

    Farmboy

    Here's some more... a bit weightier stuff. It will take some time to go through it, but this is "from the horse's mouth," so to speak:

    Pro- Korean side: <http://dokdo.mofat.go.kr/index_en.jsp# > Pro-Japanese side: http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/index.html

  • 0

    Farmboy

    I'm referring to google earth and not google search. Google earth makes no statements. It just shows the location.

    My apologies.

  • 0

    Farmboy

    A point of view: http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2011/08/17/south-korea-and-japan-disputes-over-the-dokdotakeshima-islands/

  • 1

    nigelboy

    Rusk papers? Is that the best argument you can do? This is a joke. None of Rusk’s opinions were made public nor conveyed to the Japanese government. In fact, they weren’t made public until decades later. So what does it matter? Rusk papers never materialized in official U.S. support for Japan’s claim to Dokdo. Rusk’s views were just one phase of America’s policy toward Dokdo that would later change into a neutral stance on the issue.

    He's a Secretary of State of a nation that was given the ultimate decision to decide such issues from the signatory nations of the Peace Treaty. There is a reason why the Korean counterparts tried desparately to include Takeshima as part of the renounced territory under Article 2 of the Treaty but to no avail.

  • -1

    CrazyJoe

    @Farmboy

    Okay

  • 1

    nigelboy

    The Koreans were not notified of the Dokdo annexation in 1905, when Korea had already become a Japanese colony and had no power to protest the Japanese government's actions

    There is no need to notify when they admitted themselves their eastern boundary did not extend to Takeshima. (Which also supports the fact that the Korean government was absolutely clueless about Takeshima)

    http://homepage3.nifty.com/gochagocha/Giman/Takesima/EastLimitOfKorea.htm

    Secondly, the annexation occurred in 1910.

  • -8

    sfjp330

    nigelboyAug. 14, 2012 - 08:57AM JST. False. It stated that Ulleungo Island and another outside island without giving it a name. Anybody with more than two brain cells can figure out that it's most likely Jukdo, an island (which is much bigger than Takeshima) adjacent to Ulleungdo.

    In the early 1870's the Japanese considered Usando to be a neighboring island of Ulleungdo, not Liancourt Rocks. In 1895, the Japanese realized that Usando was Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo, but in the early 1870's, Japanese believed that Usando was to the west of Ulleungdo. At the time, there is no Japanese map that shows Usando as Liancourts. They all show it as a neighboring island of Ulleungdo. In 1877, the Japanese had come to realize that Usando was Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo.

  • -7

    sfjp330

    nigelboy Aug. 14, 2012 - 09:27AM JST. There is no need to notify when they admitted themselves their eastern boundary did not extend to Takeshima.

    Japan needed to notify other counties of its annexation of the Liancourt rocks and they didn't. This was illegal occupation similar to what Russians did in the Kurile Island. So who is better, Japan or Russia?

  • -8

    sfjp330

    nigelboy Aug. 14, 2012 - 09:15AM JST He's a Secretary of State of a nation that was given the ultimate decision to decide such issues from the signatory nations of the Peace Treaty.

    What does it matter since his papers were invalid?

  • 2

    nigelboy

    In the early 1870's the Japanese considered Usando to be a neighboring island of Ulleungdo, not Liancourt Rocks. In 1895, the Japanese realized that Usando was Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo, but in the early 1870's, Japanese believed that Usando was to the west of Ulleungdo. At the time, there is no Japanese map that shows Usando as Liancourts. They all show it as a neighboring island of Ulleungdo. In 1877, the Japanese had come to realize that Usando was Ulleungdo’s neighboring island of Jukdo.

    ??? So you're basically admitting that Usando is a neighboring island of Ulleundgo which situates adjacent and is not Takeshima. Thanks for admitting it.

    Japan needed to notify other counties of its annexation of the Liancourt rocks and they didn't.

    Not when it's determined terra nullius which is FURTHER supported by the Korean maps cited previously.

  • 0

    corner-of-my-eye

    jan ken pon

  • -9

    sfjp330

    nigelboyAug. 14, 2012 - 09:38AM JST Not when it's determined terra nullius which is FURTHER supported by the Korean maps cited previously.

    This is the typical of your Japanese belief.

  • -7

    sfjp330

    nigelboy Aug. 14, 2012 - 09:38AM JST. ??? So you're basically admitting that Usando is a neighboring island of Ulleundgo which situates adjacent and is not Takeshima. Thanks for admitting it.

    Yes, the Koreans knew it in the 1870's, but Japanese didn't know.

  • -1

    Bgood41

    Some are loving the bitter past to death even exploiting it for self-interest. Wondering if Japan should send the bill of helping to built the infra-structure in Korea during occupation. Afterward, paying back for all grievances. Would Koreans let it goes? Warning: do not try to answer for Koreans.

  • -3

    nigelboy

    Yes, the Koreans knew it in the 1870's, but Japanese didn't know.

    Yes. sfjp330. Japanese weren't really familiar with the neighboring island of Ulleungdo which is Jukdo (East Longitude 130 degrees 56 minues)

    On the other hand, Japan was quite aware of Takeshima/Dokdo (East Longitude 131 degrees 52 minutes)

  • 0

    Weasel

    He kept digressing from the point

    Why does a certain metaphor describing a pot and kettle come to mind?

  • -4

    sfjp330

    Bgood41Aug. 14, 2012 - 09:58AM JST Some are loving the bitter past to death even exploiting it for self-interest. Wondering if Japan should send the bill of helping to built the infra-structure in Korea during occupation. Afterward, paying back for all grievances. Would Koreans let it goes? Warning: do not try to answer for Koreans.

    I guess you have no idea what Koreans wen through during the occupation by the Japanese Military. The Dokdo island issue goes back to Japanese annexation and colonization of Korea. For Koreans, the Dokdo issue is a symbol for the past occupation of Japan. We do know that over 5 million Koreans were conscripted for labor beginning in 1939. But how many died can only be roughly estimated. Even at these low rates, however, the forced labor toll for Korea comes to half a million dead in seven years.

  • -1

    Kyle Sakic

    You know what this is like... Imagine you and your woman or friend had a scwabble year and years ago. You get amnesia (such as a new generation of people) after amnesia you changed over and started a new leaf and started to do things the right way. Then like a freaking a hole the friend or woman started harrassing you about something you wernt present for mentally and something that does not represent you entirely. You've tried to be good to them and hangout and be friends but they won't let it go..

  • 1

    nigelboy

    I guess you have no idea what Koreans wen through during the occupation by the Japanese Military. The Dokdo island issue goes back to Japanese annexation and colonization of Korea. For Koreans, the Dokdo issue is a symbol for the past occupation of Japan. We do know that over 5 million Koreans were conscripted for labor beginning in 1939. But how many died can only be roughly estimated. Even at these low rates, however, the forced labor toll for Korea comes to half a million dead in seven years

    False in so many areas.

    First and foremost, after Japan's annexation, the life expectancy as well population doubled with an average annual GDP increase of 4.1%. Secondly, conscription for Koreans were enacted in August of 1944 and lasted only 11 months with only 245 applicable of the remaining 610K Koreans in Japan.

    http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9B%BD%E6%B0%91%E5%BE%B4%E7%94%A8%E4%BB%A4

  • -2

    Wakarimasen

    I don't get why these disputes go on and on. If you compare to other colonial situations that were also awful, I dion't believe we have half as much animosity and whining and general noise.

  • 2

    kaketama

    They say like that just in order to get popularity. It is understandable that some(many?) Koreans hate Japan because of the past event. But it is not reasonable for the Korean government to ignore The Treaty on Basic Relations between Japan and Korea and the apology which Japan has made several times.

  • 6

    wasabizuki

    "Japan's influence in the international community isn't as it used to be." -President Lee Myung-Bak

    Keep dreaming Mr. President. Just because your country can produce cheap/affordable MIDDLE-tech and kpop groups does not mean Japan's influence is waning. Korean companies are only good at packaging components that others produce. Samsung is successful because of Google, etc.

    President Lee Myung-Bak should stop trying to convince himself of his own false pretenses. He's just trying to spread Nationalist misinformation and make Koreans believe him. And only the fools do.

    The proof Japan's influence hasn't waned:

    2012 BBC World Scan Poll had Japan as having the most positive influence in the world

    http://www.globescan.com/84-press-releases-2012/186-views-of-europe-slide-sharply-in-global-poll-while-views-of-china-improve.html

    **The 2011-2012 Country Brand Index by FutureBrand where Japan Ranks #4 overall behind Canada, Switzerland, and New Zealand. Korea is #42. ** (Japan ranks #1 in Advanced Technology and Tourism)

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/76204840/Country-Brand-Index-2011

    In the 2011 World Reputation Index(http://www.reputationinstitute.com/) , Japan ranked #12, Korea #34 out of 50 countries.

    There's a reason why Koreans rank so low- they lack modesty and think too highly of themselves. Japan is one of the few countries that rank themselves lower than their actual reputation score. It shows that Japanese are not content with themselves, that there is always room for improvement.

    All of this is fuel for Korea to continue with the Japan-defamation campaign they started in 2010. Funny, because it seems koreans are starting to build a bad rep for themselves in the United States.

  • -7

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy

    First and foremost, after Japan's annexation, the life expectancy as well population doubled with an average annual GDP increase of 4.1%.

    LOL, gotta love your right-wing extremist source.

  • -4

    herefornow

    “Japan’s influence in the international community isn’t as it used to be,”

    Can't argue with that, and for Japan, the truth hurts sometimes. Japan's arrogance was tolerated when Japan was the economic engine for Asia, but now that it isn't, its diplomatic shortcomings become more of an issue.

  • -12

    Thomas Anderson

    wasabizuki

    Keep dreaming Mr. President. Just because your country can produce cheap/affordable MIDDLE-tech and kpop groups does not mean Japan's influence is waning.

    LOL more denials from the Japanese. Let's face it, LG, Samsung, etc are kicking Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, etc's ass.

    Korean companies are only good at packaging components that others produce.

    No, that's Foxconn, a Taiwanese company.

    Samsung is successful because of Google, etc.

    Samsung produces way more than just smartphones. In case you didn't know, most electronics products outside of Japan are made by Samsung. And the Japanese are still biased in their way of thinking that it's selling just because it's "cheap"! Or maybe the Japanese companies just stopped making high-quality products that people actually want. When was the last time Sony, Panasonic, Sharp etc made a hit product that people actually wanted? Hmm...

    There's a reason why Koreans rank so low- they lack modesty and think too highly of themselves. Japan is one of the few countries that rank themselves lower than their actual reputation score. It shows that Japanese are not content with themselves, that there is always room for improvement.

    This has got to be the biggest joke ever. Yet here you are, talking about how great and wonderful Japan is, and how bad and inferior Korea is. Yes, how very modest of you.

  • -5

    Thomas Anderson

    I see NO modesty from Japan, ONLY arrogance! Korea is no different.

  • 2

    Juuichi Jigen

    In the light of historical facts and based upon international law, it is apparent that Takeshima is an inherent part of the territory of Japan. The occupation of Takeshima by the Republic of Korea is an illegal occupation undertaken on absolutely no basis in international law. Any measures taken with regard to Takeshima by the Republic of Korea based on such an illegal occupation have no legal justification. (Note: The Republic of Korea has yet to demonstrate a clear basis for its claims that, prior to Japan's effective control over Takeshima and establishment of sovereignty, the Republic of Korea had previously demonstrated effective control over Takeshima.)

  • 2

    Juuichi Jigen

    In 1787, a French explorer Jean-Francois de Galaup, Comte de La Perouse reached Utsuryo Island and named the island "Dagelet." After that, a British explorer James Colnett also found Utsuryo Island in 1789 and named the island "Argonaut." However, as there was some discrepancy in their latitudinal and longitudinal positioning of Utsuryo Island between their measurements, resultantly Utsuryo Island was apparently illustrated as two separate islands on maps subsequently produced in Europe.

  • -4

    Tiger_In_The_Hermitage

    We learn a lot from History and it stands as lessons for us not to go down the route of distruction which was once. Reconciliation is an important part of that and there needs to be a way to drop aggression and rethoric against our neighbours and share the common goal.

    Yes, Japanese understand occupation and oppression, we're still occupied by the Americans.

  • 3

    nigelboy

    LOL, gotta love your right-wing extremist source.

    Sorry. It was only 3.7% during the era but 4.1% during 20~30's.

    The source comes from Naksungdae Institute of Economic Research. I guess you now are going to claim "Japanese collaborator" source. (sigh)

  • -3

    Thomas Anderson

    I'm so sick of talking to both the Japanese and Koreans because they're both too brainwashed by their own countries and their own education yet they don't even realize it.

    They both tend to think that they're both right in whatever ways that they think that they are but that's just because they've been TAUGHT that way by their STATE. They still have not been taught, like good little sheep, to QUESTION and be SKEPTICAL and have their OWN OPINIONS. They have no idea what THEY think, they only think what the state or the country tells them. It's actually rather sad and pathetic.

    What do THEY think about the islands disputes and so forth? Why do they simply blindly believe whatever that they've been TAUGHT?

  • -7

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy

    The source comes from Naksungdae Institute of Economic Research. I guess you now are going to claim "Japanese collaborator" source. (sigh)

    The problem is that you're ignoring every other terrible things that happened during the annexation.

  • 0

    thywillbedone

    Appeals to nationalism by picking meaningless border fights is a cheap and easy way to whip up crowds and get flags weaving.

    I hope more and more nationalist risk life and limb on silly looking banner-toting flotillas to deserted rocks. Let them have a landing party, and plant flags like astronauts landing on the moon, shaking their fists, and screaming with unbalanced rage.

    I was particularly amused a few years ago by about 5 or 6 Korean nationalists that chopped off their own pinky fingers, yakuza-style, in a public display of rage because some Japanese politician visited a Shinto shrine. I'd love to see that re-enacted.

    It's unfortunate, but as another post above suggested, the world is beginning to associate vitriolic hatred of Japan with Korean culture. It will not matter what the issue is. If not these rocks, or the behavior of WW2 Fascist, it will be something else. Korean nationalist are now actually angry because people around the world associate sublime Japanese culture WITH JAPAN, and not with Korea. They claim Japan "stole" it's refine culture from Korea. They wildly maintain the Tea Ceremony, Kimonos, Sushi, Japanese gardens, Raku ceramic, Kabuki, Ukiyo-e, and everything else the world associates with Japan, is actually Korean.

    They are angry because Europeans and North Americans know only 3 things about Korean culture. - Restaurants selling dog flesh, Kim chee, and Hatred of Japan.

    They say this is the fault of Japan, and another reason for their hatred.

    When Koreans nationalists start respecting themselves more than hating Japan, people around the world will begin to know more of the good things about Korea. And the good things are there somewhere hidden behind the burning Japanese flag, and the people gnashing their teeth

  • 2

    nigelboy

    Can't argue with that, and for Japan, the truth hurts sometimes. Japan's arrogance was tolerated when Japan was the economic engine for Asia, but now that it isn't, its diplomatic shortcomings become more of an issue

    That's probably because the Finance Ministry reiterated that they would be extendeding the currency swap agreement preventing Korea from repeating the financial debacle of 1997 which made Korean Won worthless than a paper you wipe your a$$ with.

  • -2

    OssanAmerica

    sfjp330Aug. 14, 2012 - 08:38AM JST "OssanAmerica Aug. 14, 2012 - 08:30AM JST But you should not forget that South Korea claimed thes vrocks in defiance of the Rusk papers, so it went agaist the US in doing so."

    Rusk papers? Is that the best argument you can do? This is a joke. None of Rusk’s opinions were made public nor conveyed to the Japanese government. In fact, they >weren’t made public until decades later. So what does it matter? Rusk papers never materialized in official U.S. >support for Japan’s claim to Dokdo. Rusk’s views were just one phase of America’s policy toward Dokdo that would >later change into a neutral stance on the issue.

    So? The fat remains that South Korea went against the US position as I said. And US neutral poolicy is dictated by the defense trewatieswith both Japan and South Korea, as I stated. What part did you not understand? If you're trying to argue that hte U.S. suppprts Soth Kortea's position, that would be incorrect because it was the United States that advbised Japan to never give up it's claim to Takeshima.

  • -4

    Utrack

    Possession is 9/10 of the law. Just ask the Russians. If I was the pres of SK I'd say to all this outcry of me visiting the Dokdo islands. ( I don't care, cry me a river and drown.) Who Governs Dokdo ROK right. right.

  • 0

    gogogo

    settle grievances left over from its colonial rule.

    What are they? Please tell the rest of the world what you think they are

  • 0

    nigelboy

    The problem is that you're ignoring every other terrible things that happened during the annexation

    No Thomas. The problem is that Korea, with their anti-Japan education, is completely ignoring the positive while completeply exaggerating the negative. The President as well as majority of the population are product of this system as evidenced by the fact that their textbooks are issued by one source. The government of Korea. I can understand China being this way being a communist, but Korea?

    As I mentioned in another article, the Koreans right before annexation were using urine to wash their faces because their complexsion would be better. They would drink urine to cure tuberculosis or fever. If it gets worse, they will eat feces. This is well documented.

    http://kindai.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/766869/56

  • 0

    Feihu

    ROK is probably worried that since the Japanese and the North Koreans are starting to talk reasonably to each other (or so says the world press) that the Japanese will start giving money to the North. That would be a slap in the face to Lee and 67 years of South Korean corrupt governments who spent all the reparations money of Johnny Walker and prostitutes.

    Korea is the Polish corridor of Asia Every nation is Asia and then some have over-run the peninsula for 3000 years...at least.

  • 0

    jomonjeulmun

    The solution to understanding the Korean people is to begin at the beginning by studying the Mumun people and moving on from there.

  • -3

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy

    No Thomas. The problem is that Korea, with their anti-Japan education, is completely ignoring the positive while completeply exaggerating the negative. The President as well as majority of the population are product of this system as evidenced by the fact that their textbooks are issued by one source.

    Do you realize that you are doing the exact same thing, except that you are siding with Japan's side? You are just as bad as the one that you accuse of.

    This is the problem with both Japan and Korea... They're both doing the exact same thing that they both accuse each other of. Then they get angry that the other is doing the exact same thing that they've been doing all along. It's madness.

    They get mad when the other obstinately claims certain islands as theirs. But then they were doing the exact same thing all along. It's ridiculous. They're both going around in circles... they're like a couple of school children.

  • -3

    Kyle Sakic

    I wish this dispute was over korea saying its japans and japan saying it is koreas. Why do both sides say its theirs? Because their patriotic, really its on a cultural fault line and europe went through the same thing through their history... It would make sense that they put a disnyland amusment park for the both of them.

  • -2

    Shinjuku No Yaju

    What does "resolve" mean? My understanding is that multiple Japanese PM's have apologized over the years. If he's looking for a PM on a nation to give up land to assuage hurt feelings, he'll be waiting a looooong time.

  • -1

    ohayo206

    I've heard a proposal suggesting they just destroy the island and forget about the whole thing.

  • -9

    that korean guy

    @shinjuku no yaju -

    What does "resolve" mean? My understanding is that multiple Japanese PM's have apologized over the years. If he's looking for a PM on a nation to give up land to assuage hurt feelings, he'll be waiting a looooong time.

    the problem is that they apologize, repeatedly in countless times, and then in the end, they claim something that negates everything they said previously, effectively nullifying the apology. it's like saying, "i'm sorry i raped you" thousand times, and then in the end, "by the way, it was not a rape"...

    and the japanese wonder why koreans are still fuming over the apology when it was made thousand times already

  • -8

    Utrack

    It blows my mind how folks can say Oh it was in the past so get over it. What if your family members were used at comfort women by soldiers. I'm ready to kill just thinking about it. If my mother or grand mother had to go through that crap being raped repeatedly? There is no way I would not be feeling intense hatred. No money or apologies can solve that.

  • -5

    Utrack

    @ that korean guy

    Exactly, I was thinking the same.

  • 2

    Tokiyo

    It blows my mind how folks can say Oh it was in the past so get over it. What if your family members were used at comfort women by soldiers. I'm ready to kill just thinking about it. If my mother or grand mother had to go through that crap being raped repeatedly? There is no way I would not be feeling intense hatred. No money or apologies can solve that.

    So when does it end? Will it ever end? The cycle of hate will just keep perpetuating itself at that rate. What of the kids born today who never had any part in the atrocities of the past? Are they all guilty by association?

  • 1

    It"S ME

    Utrack.

    While slightly off-topic, my grandfather spend 2yrs in the gulags in Siberia. So should I hate all Russians, he has passed on now.

    And from his stories it was as much hell as any other concentration camp. There comes a time when things need to be laid to rest and people need to let go. if not my country would still hold grudges from over 2 millennia ago.

    I understand your feelings but it is YOU that keeps that hatred alive and only you can move on by putting it behind you.

    There needs to be a time to say what happened happened and there is nothing I can do about it.

  • -8

    GW

    Myself & I am sure a few others here have seen this stuff coming now for well over 15-20yrs.

    Its simple really, the problems Japan has with Korea & China stem DIRECTLY from Japans insincere dealings with its own history from the 1930-40's.

    Yes Japan did a treaty with Korea in the 60s & stupid Korean politicians squandered what was paid, BUT Japan has never really admitted, come to grips with the horror it reigned on the Far East & SE Asia. Yeah sure some PMs spewed some silly utter vague statements that can be taken to have meant Japan was sorry but also easily taken that Japan was sorry it lost & didnt prevail..............basically empty words for the most part & nothing OFFICIAL.

    Japan now is simply reaping & will continue to reap what JAPAN HAS SEWN, simple as that really.

    And yes Japan aint what she used to be so many countries will & are(ex TPP) no longer going to give Japan a pass on things like in the past, but many here still cant see whats right in front of them

  • 2

    It"S ME

    Wanted to add.

    It is up to you, me, anyone to build a better future for our kids and grandkids. And it starts by changing/accepting ourselves and that includes let the past remain in the past.

    Teach the past but not just from a one-sided point of view.

    Look at europe we have been at each others throat for millennia(still got a few territorial disputes) but on average we are at peace and happy with our neighbours.

  • 2

    Utrack

    @ It"S ME

    We can hash our own history around okay, my dad was born in 1917. His grand father was enslaved his whole life. My father spent over half his life dealing with segregation just like many other African Americans in the US. To this day just when I think we can all get along I get accosted by angry caucasian telling my to go back to where I came from. I was born and raised in the US. The only thing I can do about a total of 20 million Africans dying on ships headed for the US is cry. Sorry their is no forgeting my history.

  • -2

    Jimizo

    Election year in SK - Lee has been accused of being pro-Japanese in the media ( a terrible insult to a SK leader ) and this seems well-timed to build his party's anti-Japan credentials. Reminding the electorate of Japan's atrocities and sabre rattling will continue as long as it is usefulI doubt that even the apologies and compensation that SK wants will put and end to the resentment.

  • 1

    JaneM

    I completely agree with IT'S ME.

    If the European nations had kept their hatred towards one another, there would probably be countless armed conflicts even at present. We have learned to live in peace and get along regardless of the past.

    What I have noticed during the years spent in Japan is that the Japanese in general are people who forgive and move on - that's one of the (several) reasons why they have done well for themselves after WWII. Unfortunately the nationalistic education in SK begins very early and it makes the K's unable to move on.

  • 0

    It"S ME

    Utrack.

    You still hold onto the past and anger and that is a bad thing. We all got a lot to cry about our Histories, as our forefathers did bad things and had bad things done to them. No denying that.

    I wasn't posting about my family is better than you but trying to get you to understand that the past can have bad influences on the future if we let them. We shape the future for our kids, etc and that is our main responsibility, our own problems we need to overcome ourselves.

    Look forward not behind and, yes, I also get discriminated at times. Shrug it off.

    Peace.

  • 0

    Utrack

    What you forget can happen again.

  • -4

    smithinjapan

    You watch, the same people that demand that the islands are Japanese historically and the issue is not settled will state the "past is the past" and SK should forget the atrocities Japan committed, and that Japan has already settled it.

  • -1

    Utrack

    @ smithinjapan

    Exactly.

  • 0

    It"S ME

    Utrack.

    Never said there was no hatred between individual citizens, I said there was peace between the nations. Big difference to the Korea/Japan issue. You will always find someone that hates someone else.

    But on average I found Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, etc to get well along on a personal level. Once the government gets involved it goes down the drain.

  • 1

    Utrack

    Wow vg866, smithinjapan, sfjp330 and that korean guy

    Your posts are awesome in knowledgeable content. Of course folks don't like to see the truth written in black and white though. I'm starting to like minuses.

  • 1

    Utrack

    It"S ME

    So the Govt's in Europe get along. But with Asian Countries once the Govt's get involved it's bad thing? Okay if you say so. IMO ROK is not in the wrong here and their Govt is fine to me.

  • -1

    billyshears

    The Koreans have a real aggressive chip on their shoulders about Japan. Remember the flag on the pitching mound incident during the world baseball classic? The Japanese had two atomic bombs dropped on them, Tokyo was firebombed, and they were marshalled by the USA until the 70's. Yet the Koreans have far more of a complex about the war than the Japanese. Korea and China still feel embarrassed that Japan was the powerhouse of that region and controlled parts of Korea and China. Try living in Korea with a Korean girlfriend and see how you get treated. The Japanese have integrated far more with the rest of the world.

    May be the problem with Korea and China is that they themselves didn't have the "satisfaction" of physically taking part in the defeat of Japan. May be they really still yearn to hammer Japan in battle and this subliminal desire shows itself in intransigence and aggression in various diplomatic and public dealings with Japan.

  • 1

    JaneM

    What you forget can happen again.

    Utrack

    IT’S ME is not saying that you should forget. I think she says we need to get over our past which is different from forgetting. It is more like remember the past in order not to repeat it but rid yourself of the hatred which it instills in you.

    While we cannot change the past we can shape the future - not only for ourselves but for our kids and the generations after them. If we don’t let go, our past will always hinder the future.

  • 0

    It"S ME

    JaneM. I am a He.

    Got it right. But to change the future we 1st need to change ourselves.

    We are the guardians/teachers and examples for future generations.

    If we don't have peace and goodwill in our hearts how can we pass it onto the next generation and they will repeat the same mistakes our generation did. And that has been going on for way too long.

    The same is true for the ME, etc.

  • 1

    Michael Jun Sung Shim

    Come on kids (Korea & Japan) be nice to each other!!

  • 4

    Chris Lowery

    Dokto, Takeshima, Liancourt? Can we get a name for these islands first before we go claiming them? All retoric aside though, As it seems form all historical records available and compiled though, it would seem those Islands belong to S. Korea, but Japan has a very big monetary investment in those Islands, going back about 200years, and so that is the reason Japan still claims these Islands, that and the potential gas, and fossile fuel available through drilling.. i Love Japan, however in this dispute I must say S. korea get's the check-mate, with a sigh. Plus, with the stationing of Korean police facilities and such, there really is not much to more Japan can do, short of some monumental action, like a security blockade or something, but I really can't see that happening. Peace.

  • 0

    JaneM

    IT'S ME,

    Sorry for my mistake. Did not realize you are a "He".

    Again, I completely agree with you. This is what I have been thinking while reading some of the posts on this forum.

  • -1

    smithinjapan

    JaneM: "While we cannot change the past we can shape the future - not only for ourselves but for our kids and the generations after them. If we don’t let go, our past will always hinder the future."

    You are correct, but then whom should let go of what? That's part of the problem. Japan doesn't want to let go of history -- they want to deny and hide it, hoping that others who remember will die before word gets out. If they could make a serious apology and teach their children that what was done was wrong and should never be repeated, but in no way their fault, then I think we COULD move on. Instead you have Japanese politicians who were not even born at the time of Japanese atrocities claiming they never happened, that the people who confess from the Imperial army have 'foggy memories', and then you have posters on here suggesting that what happened doesn't matter because information they got from blogs suggests that during some Moo-min period ancient Koreans might have killed a few Jomon people. Related to the island issue, again, whom should let go of what? Koreans currently own, live on, and administer the islands, so should Japan just let it go? They won't -- they'll conveniently forget and never learn from their history, but they won't let go of the islands simply due to radical nationalism.

  • 0

    bajhista65

    This problem between Jpn and SK will never be resolved unless both countries accept and forget the past and move on. Just like Vietnam Mi Lai and SK Gun Run massacre by the United States of A in which USA doesn't acknowledge their blunders. Just move on and live in Love and Peace.

  • -2

    smithinjapan

    Jomon: "Moomin are cute cartoon characters."

    Believe me, the 'mistake' was quite intentional -- I was poking fun at how you like to indulge in fictions, based on personal blog references.

    "It's the Koreans that can't see that the violent people and culture they exported to Japan came back to the peninsula in what can only be described as the ultimate example of cultural blowback."

    You are SO far off-track it's really quite unbelievable you take this so seriously. You're blaming ancient peoples for the acts of the people of the present. Then when it's pointed out that Japanese are violent, like the right-wingers, you call them Korean. If you're so right-wing, does that mean you are perhaps Korean as well then? My guess is you would scoff at the issue, and rightly so, save for the scoffing (for we are all human, and none better than the other).

    "If Koreans want to take credit for Japanese culture,"

    Oh wait... are you admitting that life didn't begin in Japan? That seems a bit of a step back from your statements that it did.

    "...then they should take full responsibility for their own occupation and annexation since none of this would have happened had they never invaded the peninsula in the first place."

    He says as he denies Japan needs to make amends for what it did. So basically what you're saying is this: Japan has no control over its own actions; Japanese actions are dictated by ancient Koreans, who were dead long, long, long ago. Do you really think Japan is that weak? I don't -- I personally believe they are responsible for their actions, that they did willingly or under the command of the Japanese government. It's interesting to hear that you think SKorea has such dominance over the Japanese, though.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    bajhista65: "This problem between Jpn and SK will never be resolved unless both countries accept and forget the past and move on"

    'Forgetting' the past is not the problem. Denying it existed is. The US and Viet Nam, since you mention them, have in part made up because they ACKNOWLEDGE the past and have tried to move on. Japan continues to deny anything they've done, and have plenty of radicals claiming nothing SK or China, or anyone else says, is true, and paint themselves the victims. Just look at Jomon's comments -- he claims SKoreans are responsible for the colonization of SK by Japan! Now, how do you go about moving on when one side is so completely ignorant and inconsiderate of the other? If Japan could properly apologize and atone for its past I have no doubt the two sides could move on and things in the region would benefit 100%. As it stands, Japan denies its war crimes, says sexual slavery never happened, and more so. The Koreans are rightfully upset.

  • -2

    jomonjeulmun

    He says as he denies Japan needs to make amends for what it did.

    The only thing I see is non-Jomon people having occupied the peninsula now demanding from the descendents of the Jomon people (after having ethnically cleansed them from the peninsula no less), that they acknowledge and authorize the theft of more of their lands, and now money, and technology. It never ends. 3500 years of feuding. You should have stayed home Mumun people. Life would have been so much simpler.

  • -5

    JoeBigs

    It's all about money, Korea needs it and Japan has it.

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    JoeBigs: "It's all about money, Korea needs it and Japan has it."

    Actually, not. Japan does have the biggest debt of any G8 nation, and they are completely dependent on their neighbours, but money they have not. Before long Japan will slip from the world's third largest economy to the fifth, behind India and Viet Nam. After that, they will not recover, and Japan will slide into major disaster as its banks try to extort its customers and the government tries to further raise taxes to make up for the losses.

  • 1

    hotbertaa

    My grandfather was in a Japanese POW camp in myanmar. I was told very little about it, but physically he was scarred and my lasting image of him was that from time to time he would suddenly come to life, get out of his chair in the corner of the room and do a little dance. He probably died hating Japan.

    Do I hate the Japanese? no. I came here, found them to be decent, kind people. For awhile it would cloud my judgement to a degree. But, to live your life, you have to face every new encounter with a positive attitude.

    Before my grandmother died I was able to introduce her to my now wife. I feel that I laid to rest the pain my grandparents felt.

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    hotbertaa: "Before my grandmother died I was able to introduce her to my now wife. I feel that I laid to rest the pain my grandparents felt."

    While the latter part of your post is extremely heart-warming, it's so sad the rest of it. Most Japanese wouldn't even know the Japanese Imperial Army invaded so many nations that they reached Myanmar (though of course not to know about the Thai Burma death railway is just irresponsible). I feel your pain, and I'm glad that your family could come to terms with it. Wouldn't it be lovely if Japanese were taught about that and could grow from it? Unfortunately, they have no idea it ever happened thanks to textbook revisionists. I'm so sorry about your grandfather. That's heartbreaking.

  • 1

    GW

    It is more like remember the past in order not to repeat it but rid yourself of the hatred which it instills in you.

    JaneM,

    Thats fine for a country like Germany, but Japan even after all these decades STILL hasnt the guts to admit its history(1930-40s), let alone teach it. SO in the case of Japan HOW can they even forget what they have yet to even learn/admit.............

    Its simple Japan cant.

    They thing that amazes me is how many Japanese are quite familar with the history of Nazi Germany BUT incredibly ignorant of their own atrocities.

    As I said before Japan is & will continue to reap WHAT IT HAS SEWN.

    I wud love to live in Japan where it could tell Korea & China to SHUT UP, to be able to say that was Japan THEN, NOW we are different, but if you cant admit your past you can hardly blame those who suffered most from it to let it slide, dont work that way!

  • 0

    nigelboy

    Do you realize that you are doing the exact same thing, except that you are siding with Japan's side? You are just as bad as the one that you accuse of.

    ??? Did I fabricate anything Thomas like the post that sfjp330 did Aug. 14, 2012 - 10:10AM JST

    My stance is based on sources which are verifiable and if it contradicts the opposing view which in this case has no sources, why do I care if it offends certain people? Or are you the type of person that subscribes to the practice that history should be written by their own country's views, no matter how distorted they are, to be confined exclusively? Or are you that type of person that subscribes to the practice that history should be shared by both countries to reach a objective common ground?

    If you choose the former, then Korea has no right to criticize Japan for their dealings with history. If choose the latter, then you cannot ignore the inconvenient truth that I posted earlier about how messed up Korea was before annexation and the vast improvements that during that time period.

  • -4

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy, you do realize not many people (other than the Japanese right-wingers) actually agree with you, right...? In fact not many people are even listening to whatever that you're saying.

  • 0

    billyshears

    @smithinjapan

    Wouldn't it be lovely if Japanese were taught about that and could grow from it? Unfortunately, they have no idea it ever happened thanks to textbook revisionists

    I think a lot of people (especially in Korea and China) are somewhat misled about the vast majority of Japanese world history textbooks** in use today**. This from wikipedia. "The revisionist textbook "New History Textbook" was used by only 0.039% of junior high schools in Japan as of August 15, 2001. According to the Society which wrote it, there are currently eight private junior high schools, one public school for the disabled in Tokyo, three public junior high schools and four public schools for the disabled in Ehime that use their textbook (Mainichi Shimbun, September 27, 2004). There are quite a few different textbooks used in different areas, but I’ve just been reading a study supplement book for junior high schools that aims to cover the major points for all the major textbooks (part of the くもんの中学基礎がため１００％ series). In this book, it describes the Nanjing Massacre, “The Japanese army invaded China’s capital and massacred a large number of Chinese people, including women and children”. Admittedly, there is no number given, but this is hardly a whitewash. The word “虐殺” (a massacre, a bloodbath, slaughter) is used. It talks about Japan advocating independence for Asian colonies, and then not allowing it after invasion, and the seizure of resources, and forced labour and again “虐殺” of citizens. The same word is used when talking about killings of socialists and Koreans after the Kanto earthquake. There is not a great deal about comfort women, but they are briefly mentioned."

  • 1

    Triumvere

    In this thread: nigelboy argues that Koreans should be grateful for their occupation. WTF?

  • 0

    billyshears

    in this thread: nigelboy argues that Koreans should be grateful for their occupation.

    Reading this article from the NY Times in 1919, it seems the Koreans were not too grateful:

    http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F0081EFF395B11728DDDA10994DB405B898DF1D3

  • -1

    OssanAmerica

    sfjp330Aug. 14, 2012 - 08:51AM JST The Koreans were not notified of the Dokdo annexation in 1905, when Korea had already become a Japanese colony >and had no power to protest the Japanese government's actions

    THe Liancort Rocks were never "annexed" in 1905. It was handed over by the then Chosun government in part of the defense againast Russia. The annextion of Korea did not take place until 1910.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    Ossan,

    Takeshima was incorporated by Japan at the request of a businessman. The islets were determined terra nullius. Korea government at that time didn't really know nor cared as evidenced by by link I posted above Aug.14 9:27 am.

  • 0

    Hikozaemon

    Apologizing to Korea, and compensating them is a complete waste of time.

    Over 50 official government apologies now - see Wikipedia, and come an election, their government acts like their never was one.

    On comfort women too, Korea accepted full reparations in 65, and agreed to handle settling of all individual claims which they failed to do. They got compensated again through the semi-government fund set up by the Japanese government 10 years ago that allowed the comfort women to get paid again, without Japan taking an action undermining the reparations treaty already in place.

    So the ROK government still doesn't want to pay the comfort women their cut of the compensation, and is trying to get Japan to pay out a third time?

    This is not about justice - they already have that. It is about nationalism and point scoring. It's a game rigged for Japan to lose over and over forever. It is doing the right thing by simply not playing.

    Complete utter waste of time.

  • -2

    Thomas Anderson

    This is not about justice - they already have that.

    Really? A whole bunch of Japanese, including high-ranking officials, are still in denial.

  • -2

    Thomas Anderson

    Talk is cheap. Do what the Germans did, make denialism illegal and punishable. Do more to educate the Japanese about their war atrocities. Actions speak louder than mere half-hearted "apologies".

  • 0

    nigelboy

    Koreans welcomed the annexation-->the brutal resistance movement in the 10's------>modernization and industrialization during 20-30's with Japan's infusion of capital coming into fruition and the hard work of koreans--> war efforts during the 40's.

    Not denying billyshears post at all. But the above basically sums up all of the successful ex-colonies.

  • -3

    Thomas Anderson

    Reading this article from the NY Times in 1919, it seems the Koreans were not too grateful: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F0081EFF395B11728DDDA10994DB405B898DF1D3

    This is absolutely horrifying and I wonder what goes in the mind of those who deny it.

  • 2

    Hikozaemon

    Thomas Anderson

    1. Show me any official government denial of any attrocity in Korea by the Japanese government.

    2. Show me your list of official German government apologies for WWII.

    Talk is indeed cheap - a lot of stuff gets repeated around in these debates with no backing up so everyone believes its true - just like the BS about there being no apology or reparations.

  • -3

    Thomas Anderson

    Koreans welcomed the annexation-->the brutal resistance movement in the 10's------>modernization and industrialization during 20-30's with Japan's infusion of capital coming into fruition and the hard work of koreans--> war efforts during the 40's.

    You forgot to add: According to the Japanese right-wingers' revision.

  • -2

    Thomas Anderson

    Show me any official government denial of any attrocity in Korea by the Japanese government.

    Hahahahaha. Ishihara?

    Show me your list of official German government apologies for WWII.

    Erm, you do realize that in Germany, politicians who even have a slight bent towards Nazi denialism/sympathizers are severely reprimanded, right? You must of think that every politicians in the world are just like the Japanese politicians who would never dare to apologize for ANYTHING.

  • -2

    Thomas Anderson

    In Japan, even a war criminal got to became a Prime Minister in the past. This country is messed up.

  • 1

    Spanki

    South Korea, all you are doing is showing the world how pathetic you really are. MOVE ON.

  • 2

    Hikozaemon

    Thomas - so the governor of Tokyo is the official voice of the Japanese government?

    Who speaks for China? Jackie Chan?

  • -1

    Thomas Anderson

    Thomas - so the governor of Tokyo is the official voice of the Japanese government? Who speaks for China? Jackie Chan?

    Ok so first of all, why is the view of the governor of the capital city of Japan negated? Obviously what he says carries a lot of weight will have a lot of repercussions.

    Second, what about Shinzo Abe? Noda? Shinzo Abe has just denied that the sex slaves existed. Noda has mollified the war criminals.

  • -1

    Simon Foston

    Koreans welcomed the annexation-->

    Hence all the protests?

    the brutal resistance movement in the 10's------>

    Is that anything like the French Resistance movement in WW2? I'd imagine the crackdown was pretty brutal too.

    modernization and industrialization during 20-30's with Japan's infusion of capital coming into fruition and the hard work of koreans--> war efforts during the 40's.

    Was the industrialisation for Korea's benefit or Japan's? Did the Koreans have a choice as to whether they worked hard or not? Were the war efforts, which presumably were entirely for Japan's benefit, fruitful?

    Not denying billyshears post at all. But the above basically sums up all of the successful ex-colonies.

    Hrm. An ex-colony that's still technically at war with itself, with a culture that the colonial occupiers tried very hard to eradicate, desecrate or loot, and which seems incredibly resentful of the former occupiers. Odd definition of "successful."

  • -1

    J_rock

    I haven't lived in Japan for several years now, but it's nice to see that not much has changed. Japan will continue to issue vague non-apologies, while cabinet ministers make their annual trip to Yasukuni, and the Chinese and Koreans will keep right on screaming bloody murder about textbooks, and Japan's inability to come to terms with it's wartime aggression. North-east Asia is one big happy, dysfunctional family.

  • 0

    miracolose

    if I'm a country, maybe I'll do the same thing like Japanese do. I don't care what people say about war crimes bla..bla.. as long as I know that people are hero for me and a shame too that I need to learn from them because we lost, that's why I came give my respect to ancestors.

    The same things like if your parent kill my family, and they've been punished for long time, said apologies, paid the compensation and one day they died. After that every year You came to their grieve give them your respect and I said to you "Don't ever dare to do that again! don't u know how much pain in my life because of your parent and you still go respect them!"

    What i want to say is no matter how many times you've said sorry and how much money you've paid that won't change anything until the loss sides FORGIVE all the sorrow and pain that they have been through all this time. Face your own life now, don't always blame the past coz u can't go back, what you have to do is move on!

  • -2

    Moondog

    Yes, Japan has apologized many times but it's not how much you apologize, it's how you apologize.

    Here's how the apology should be done. The Emperor should travel to Korea to meet surviving sex slaves. The surviving sex slaves should be assembled on the dirt playground of one of the high schools where they were "recruited." Upon arriving at the gate to the school ground, the emperor should get down on his hands and knees and crawl to the feet of the women and beg forgiveness while they have the opportunity to spit on him.

    This should have been done by the late Emperor Showa so it's up to the current emperor to make the apology.

  • 0

    thywillbedone

    It is a strange myth that Japanese people are not told about war-time atrocities of the Imperial Fascist Japanese army. There are many books by Japanese sources and publishers about the topic expressing the point of view held by China and Korea, or otherwise anti-Japanese opinions. I am in the publishing business, and was always mystified by the assertion that Japanese people do not know, or are not told all points of view.

    Even the book The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II, by Iris Chang was translated in to Japanese and was a big seller in Japan.

    The only thing I would say to anyone who still promotes this myth (that Japanese are not informed) is, please visit any large Japanese book store, and visit the modern history sections, and you will see many Japanese books that reveal the Chinese point of view.

    This myth is promoted as a means of fostering hatred of Japan.

  • 0

    yasukuni

    @thywillbedone.

    Because there are books available in bookstores doesn't mean a population is educated on an issue. Japanese aren't educated - Japanese Joe Citizen gets most of his information on everything from TV. And if Japanese have heard about Iris Chang's book, they've probably seen Japanese academics debunk it.

    "This myth is promoted as a means of fostering hatred of Japan."

    No, that's just wrong. Ask Japanese of all ages to tell you about atrocities and what happened in ww2 and they don't know.. I haven't met many people who know many specifics. The average person will basically say "Yeah, I heard that soldiers did bad things in China, but I also heard that Chinese doctored photographs - but anyway, everyone does bad things in war...and my grandma was in Tokyo during the bombing..."

    But here's the issue. Lee wants compensation and says he went to Takeshima do bring attention to it.

    What EXACTLY does he want? How much money EXACTLY does he want Japan to pay and to WHO? And on top of that, who exactly does he want to formally apologize again, and will one apology in 2012 be enough, or does he want an apology every year. And in the end he won't be the President forever. What if in 10 years another Korean President swims to Takeshima because he doesn't think the 2012 compensation/apology was enough?

    Noda, should say "Lee, I love ya, but we aren't going to pay, and I don't write speeches for emperors. Let's be friends, get our economies going, and watch our backs with Mr Kim over there."

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