South Korean court refuses to review WWII treaty with Japan

Japan needs to give an official apology, pay compensation, and fix the problem so we can all get on with our lives.

The 1965 treaty, which was accompanied by more than $800 million in economic aid and loans from Tokyo to Seoul, came as the South worked to rebuild an economy devastated by the 1950-53 Korean War. The treaty declared all compensation issues between the countries on property, rights and interests as “completely and finally” settled.

Seoul shouldn't have signed the treaty if they thought this wasn't satisfactory compensation or apology.

Japan could sure use that $800 million now or whatever value it has in 2015 dollars.

@Speed, US$800 million would be roughly US$6 billion today.

@Aly Rustom "Japan needs to give an official apology..."

Giving an apology and accepting it are different.

Nearly every Japanese Prime Minister / Cabinet gave a statement of apology since the 1970s. While many are general apologies, after the 1990s many are very specific about the issue "comfort women", including such official statements as:

"Concerning the comfort women, I apologize from the bottom of my heart and feel remorse for those people who suffered indescribable hardships." 1992 PM Miyazawa

"The Government again would like to express its sincere apology and remorse to all those who have suffered indescribable hardship as so-called 'wartime comfort women,' irrespective of their nationality or place of birth." 1992 Cabinet Chief Kato

"The Government of Japan would like to take this opportunity once again to extend its sincere apologies and remorse to all those, irrespective of place of origin, who suffered immeasurable pain and incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women." 1993 Chief Cabinet Minister Kono

"On the issue of wartime 'comfort women,' which seriously stained the honor and dignity of many women, I would like to take this opportunity once again to express my profound and sincere remorse and apologies." 1994 PM Murayama

The list just continues up to Abe, who stated in 2013 that maybe Japan should "reconsider" its previous apologies. Though many Koreans freaked out over such an idea, it was a rather skillful political ploy by Abe because it pointed out how Japan did indeed repeatedly apologize to Korea, even though 24% believed Japan never did so and another 58% think any apology was insufficient.

Want more? Here's a list of official apologies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

Aly RustomDEC. 24, 2015 - 08:30AM JST

Japan needs to give an official apology, pay compensation, and fix the problem so we can all get on with our lives.

That is what Japan did in 1965. What do you think the treaty of 1965 is for?

If japan gave an apology, then why is Abe saying that there were no comfort women?

The Japanese government has never directly compensated South Korean victims of wartime slavery but set up a fund in 1995 to make payments to former military sex slaves from private donations.

There you have it. AND they are denying it.

Critics say Japan didn’t admit to involvement in the military-run brothels until after the 1965 treaty.

This strikes me as odd given that the term "comfort women" (ianfu; 慰安婦) in Japanese is shorthand for "comfort women in military service" or "military comfort women" (jugun ianfu; 従軍慰安婦) — by definition, jugun means that they serve in the military and are "attached" to the military. Ironically, jugun ianfu is a phrase even now often used by Japanese government ministries, NHK and even nationalists who deny any IJA involvement with their military's comfort women.

Because they were part of the military by definition, as was the case with soldiers, the comfort women would not be allowed to leave their posts even if they voluntarily joined rather than being conscripted (forced). The fact that they were forced to continue, even if they originally joined of their own volition, makes many (most?) of them sex slaves.

@Aly Rustom "If japan gave an apology..."

"If"? You realize that to say this after being presented with an extensive list of official apology statements is the root of the problem between Japan and Korea. Its not the lack of apology but rather the unwillingness to accept the fact that apologies have repeatedly been given. Such a mindset says that if Japan apologized again tomorrow then a decade from now it will probably be conveniently ignored too.

A treaty agreed upon by Japan and South Korea that '.....completely and finally...' settles all compensation issues sounds complete and final to me. Time to move on.

"The Japanese government has never directly compensated South Korean victims of wartime slavery .."

In 1965 The Japanese government wanted to compensate all Korean individuals who suffered, but the South Korean government refused and demanded that Japan pay the government, and that THEY would distribute the compensation. The South Korean government lied and spent the money on infrastructure and creating Pohang Steel. Why aren't South Koreans suing the South Korean government for wrongfully depriving them of that compensation?

If"? You realize that to say this after being presented with an extensive list of official apology statements is the root of the problem between Japan and Korea. Its not the lack of apology but rather the unwillingness to accept the fact that apologies have repeatedly been given.

ok. lets have a look at those so called apologies supey.

June 22, 1965: Minister of Foreign Affairs Shiina Etsusaburo said to the people of South Korea: "In our two countries' long history there have been unfortunate times, it is truly regrettable and we are deeply remorseful"

There have been unfortunate times? You don't say...

September 6, 1984: Emperor Hirohito said to President Chun Doo Hwan: "It is indeed regrettable that there was an unfortunate past between us for a period in this century and I believe that it should not be repeated again."

again with it is regrettable. I went through the links supey. There are a tiny number where the word apology was used and it was mostly made in private. What the Japanese regard as an apology is saying that something is regrettable. Not the same thing. And that's why our neighbors are pissed off.

Aly RustomDEC. 24, 2015 - 09:55AM JST

If japan gave an apology, then why is Abe saying that there were no comfort women?

When did Abe say so? Of course not. I am no fan of Abe, but criticizing him for what he did not say is just undue and propaganda.

For example, Miri Ryu, Deputy Director at the Ministry of Justice, Republic of Korea, wrote this.

http://cjicl.org.uk/2015/12/09/compensation-for-illegal-sex-slavery-in-light-of-recent-korean-supreme-court-case/

The current Japanese government maintains that there is no evidence to support that such sex slavery even existed

But the article she cited(New York Times) contradicts her.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/03/opinion/another-attempt-to-deny-japans-history.html?_r=1

He(Abe) said that his previous administration, in 2006-7, had found no evidence that the women who served as sex slaves to Japan’s wartime military had, in fact, been coerced.

This kind of willful misquotation by a high government official, such as Miri Ryu, promotes nothing but animosity and further misunderstanding.

Fair enough, but I never said Abe apologized. Pigs would fly first. I was talking about Japan as a nation.

@Aly Rustom "..those so called apologies"... "There are a tiny number where the word apology was used and it was mostly made in private."

So you A: admit the apology was indeed made (though this contradicts your initial thinking, but its a good start), However you then B: go on to cherry pick the ones that suit your obstinate view (and you need to go back 50 years to do so).

Again, this illustrates the cognitive dissonance I mentioned that is the root of the problem

Seriously, to say "so-called", "tiny number" and "mosty private" ignores reality. So again, please read this:

"Concerning the comfort women, I apologize from the bottom of my heart and feel remorse for those people who suffered indescribable hardships." 1992 PM Miyazawa at a policy speech on a visit to South Korea

"The Government again would like to express its sincere apology and remorse to all those who have suffered indescribable hardship as so-called 'wartime comfort women,' irrespective of their nationality or place of birth." 1992 Cabinet Chief Kono

"The Government of Japan would like to take this opportunity once again to extend its sincere apologies and remorse to all those, irrespective of place of origin, who suffered immeasurable pain and incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women." 1993 Statement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Koichi Kato

"We would like to express our deep remorse and apology for the fact that invasion and colonial rule by our nation in the past brought to bear great sufferings and sorrow upon many people" PM Morihiro Hosokawa said, at the 127th National Diet Session

"I used the expression war of aggression and act of aggression to express honestly my recognition which is the same as the one that the act of our nation in the past brought to bear unbearable sufferings and sorrow upon many people, and to express once again deep remorse and apology" PM Morihiro Hosokawaat the 128th National Diet Session

"On the issue of wartime 'comfort women,' which seriously stained the honor and dignity of many women, I would like to take this opportunity once again to express my profound and sincere remorse and apologies." 1994 PM Murayama

"I offer my profound apology to all those who, as wartime comfort women, suffered emotional and physical wounds that can never be closed" 1995 statement by PM Murayama on the occasion of the establishment of the "Asian Women's Fund"

"Nothing injured the honor and dignity of women more than this and I would like to extend words of deep remorse and the heartfelt apology." 1996 PM Hashimoto at joint press conference at summit meeting with President Kim Young Sam in South Korea

There are at least a dozen more very public statements, in open letters, press conferences, speeches and joint declarations given by Japanese Government officials while physically inside of both Korea and China. So @Aly, please, learn the facts, and don't gloss over reality by ignoring it or resorting to cherry picking.

For those who still misunderstands, Asian Women Fund is not purely private. Private donation is half of the fund but another half, medical and welfare, were Government Fund plus All the operational costs are also from government fund. Of course with apology letters from historical PMs of Japan. Rather than Japan has never compensated, it would be more appropriate to say that Korea rejected it.

The so called comfort woman name is absurd in my opinion. They made a lot of money to support their families. What did the do with the compensation monies they received? ....or did their govt. claim they made enough already and keep it for the first dictatorial govt?

Supey11,

There were many apologies made, but the sentiments behind them were hardly unanimous within the Japanese government. Right-wing politicians made a pilgrimage to Yasukuni en masse almost immediately after Murayama's apology, for example, in a blatant show of their disapproval. Although Japan's official stance has been apologetic for decades, many in the government don't try very hard to hide their spite and lack of remorse.

Compensations are a different story though, since money paid is money paid regardless of the sentiments behind it. If Japan really did pay an amount agreed upon by both sides, Korea shouldn't be demanding more.

Supey, again, when did I ever say they never apologized? I said they should. Don't put words in my mouth.

Remember that the PM doesn't even consider the comfort women even existed. Apparently, he feels that they all volunteered to have sex with the Japanese army. If you want to take that same view, that's fine. Most of us here will not.

Remember that the PM doesn't even consider the comfort women even existed. Apparently, he feels that they all volunteered to have sex with the Japanese army.

When did he say so? Nobody in official positionshas ever denied the existence of comfort women and comfort stations. Or are you just feeling he felt so?

shonanbbDec. 24, 2015 - 01:19PM JST The so called comfort woman name is absurd in my opinion. They made a lot of money to support their families. What did the do with the compensation monies they received? ....or did their govt. claim they made enough already and keep it for the first dictatorial govt?

You sincerely cannot not say this kind of things, please educate yourself and read the victim testimonies...

When did he say so? Nobody in official positionshas ever denied the existence of comfort women and comfort stations. Or are you just feeling he felt so?

Read and learn

http://www.japanfocus.org/-alexis-dudden/2368/article.html

Epp: I am very well read and educated. After much research, I still stick by my statements.

@Supey, and others who point to the list of Japanese apologies

Who were those apologies actually made to? They were made in speeches by individuals "in private capacities", to assemblies of reporters, officials etc, but not to the actual victims. They should officially apologise to the victims themselves, face to face; if Abe gave a face to face apology to surviving comfort women, it would make an enormous difference.

Aly RustomDEC. 24, 2015 - 01:57PM JST

DieRealityCheckDEC. 24, 2015 - 01:49PM JST

Remember that the PM doesn't even consider the comfort women even existed.

When did he say so? Nobody in official positionshas ever denied the existence of comfort women and comfort stations. Or are you just feeling he felt so?

Read and learn

http://www.japanfocus.org/-alexis-dudden/2368/article.html

I have read your link. What PM Abe said is quoted as follows.

Japan's Prime Minister Denies World War II Sex Slaves

By Kozo Mizoguchi

“The fact is, there is no evidence to prove there was coercion,'' Abe said.

Then, Alexis Dudden misquotes him as follows.

On March 1, 2007, Japan’s Prime Minister Abe Shinzo denied the comfort women.

However, her misquote was followed by another misquote of hers.

Technically, Abe denied Japanese governmental responsibility for the forced coercion of women and girls into the system of sexual slavery that involved an estimated 80,000 to 200,000 victims from throughout Asia, particularly Korea and China.

The sad reality is that people just misunderstand to comment "Remember that the PM doesn't even consider the comfort women even existed."

How far it came from the original words by the PM.

If he acknowledged them, they wouldn't need a meeting between Park and Abe to hammer out their differences. What yoshitsune said is right.

@Aly Ruston

Didn't have to read craps of Dudden and her ilks like yourself because they also say as much as technically speaking Abe is calling all of them are prostitues.

The miunderstandings of your kind, and especially the link you quoted are the actually proofs that majority of people believed the stories IJA KIDNAPPED young girls from the penninsula up until 2007, INITIAL dispute point, which Chong Dae Hyup tried to make real story by fine-tuning the testinonies of victims. See How those testimonies have been shifting llittel by little. Once they realized impossible to prove it, they almost erased the "subject" in testimonies and started focusing on " compulsory nature " in wider sense or mess up with other war crimes stories .

@Epee @Yoshitune

What shall Abe do about victims who claimed their experiences at the wrong places, wrong times, like apparently served during Korean War?

@Aly Rustom "when did I ever say they never apologized? I said they should. Don't put words in my mouth."

Yes, you are correct to state that you never said that Japan has never apologized. So I do not wish to put words in your mouth. But, to state "Japan should apologize" and "If Japan gave an apology" would pretty much imply that you think an apology has not ever been made. So I apologize for not understanding your sentiments.

Therefore, if you wished to be unambiguous, maybe you should have said "Japan should apologize again".

And then, if someone were to question why Japan should apologize yet again, you could clarify by stating: "Even though the Japanese government has repeatedly apologized in the past in public forums, including in the National Diet and while physically in South Korea in front of their media outlets and standing next to their elected representatives, it is my belief that these people apologizing did not actually hold a true sentiment of apology, regardless of the fact that several concurrent Japanese government leaders have done so while using words such as "heartfelt" and "apology", and any true apology would include nothing short of collecting together every known survivor of a war that ended over seven decades ago and kow-towing at their feet while paying them a lump of cash that will probably never be considered enough even though war payments were accepted by South Korea fifty years ago and a fund has been established by Japan to aid comfort women survivors, and even though much of the general public of Korea ignores how any of these apologies and payments have ever happened, this new round of apologies should now be done by the current leaders of Japan, even though few were even alive when the war occurred."

But again, I wish not to put words in your mouth, so I'll let you say what would be an acceptable form of apology given the situation.

Please understand the LDP and Abe returned to power as a direct result of China's trashing of Japanese businesses and putting up signs saying "no dogs or Japanese allowed in," as well as Korea's rude statements about "Japan's Emperor should bow down to us and apologize."

You don't get to pretend Abe just came along and pulled the country to the right. Stuff went on before that brought it about.

I agree with others, Koreans don't want to listen to the apologies they've been given. They just want to pretend they've never been apologized to because it's part of their national character to be victims.

What shall Abe do about victims who claimed their experiences at the wrong places, wrong times

He should stop using them as an excuse to engage in whitewashing.

Please understand the LDP and Abe returned to power as a direct result of China's trashing of Japanese businesses and putting up signs saying "no dogs or Japanese allowed in," as well as Korea's rude statements about "Japan's Emperor should bow down to us and apologize

Nonsense. The Japanese general election was not determined by riots in China or words in Korea. That election was lost by the DPJ due to their incompetence, due to the economy, and due to their response to the tsunami & Fukushima.

Yoshitune

He should stop using them as an excuse to engage in whitewashing.

I aked if Abe, PM of Japan should aplogize face to face to dubious victims who could be totally unrelated in these disputes? For what points exactly , PM of Japan should make apology? After watching such unnatural conversions of testimonies, what on earth could make you believe what they claims are all truths? or , at worst, makes PM of a country to visit down on knees and make apology. Have you ever read each testimonies?

South Korea is the country that engages in whitewashing it's textbooks and literally brainwashes it's young people into hating Japan. With extreme pressure from the United States, whose goal is to align it's allies in a concerted effort to maintain stability in the region (read- contain Chinese expansion) The Park government has finally gotten the message. Park's attendance at Beijing's Victory over Japan day parade was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as the U.S. is concerned. The South Korean Court verdict of the absurd prosecution of the Japanese journalist is just one sign of changes that are In the works right now. Expect the charges against the South Korean professor who "dared:" to express her view on the Comfort Women issue to reach a "not guilty " verdict. A great many South Koreans have become fed up with this Japan-Bashing nonsense as well, and expect to see South Korea eliminate the majority of school textbooks that are designed to incite nothing but hatred towards Japan through biased content and omission of historical facts. As South Korea-Japan government level meetings continue expect the removal of the "Comfort women monuments" as well. Anyone who is still arguing against Japan is doing so with last year's data.