politics

Thousands protest outside Diet against security bills

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Tummy rumbles.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

The mainstream press is doing a wonderful job of not reporting these protests on the nightly news. It's almost as if the government here has something to do with it........

24 ( +26 / -2 )

Organisers said the protesters numbered 45,000. A police spokesman said the Metropolitan Police Department did not give estimates for the size of the protest.

A recent JT discussion thread about a previous protest noted that, "organizers said there were about 120,000 protesters while police put the number at 30,000."

Based on that metric, I would assume if the police had given an estimate for this most recent protest it would have been about 12,000 people, or roughly 25% that of the organizers.

The organizers obviously try to inflate the number, while the police may or may not have incentive to skew the numbers in one direction or the other. I do wish there were an impartial source of crowd estimates for these political gatherings.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

What is interesting is that Japanese people are out on the street protesting for peace, even though their country has not been directly involved in conflicts for decades, whereas we don't see daily protests in a country such as the US, which is constantly at war.

18 ( +21 / -3 )

Thousands of protesters rallied in Tokyo against Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s security policy on Monday as the government aims to enact legislation this month that would allow Japanese troops to fight abroad for the first time since World War Two.

This is the type of over simplification which allows the opponents to label the said bill as "war legislation".

One of the conditions which allows Japan to take self defense measures (the one that's been debated in the Diet) is "..That an armed attack against a foreign country that is in close relationship with Japan occurs and there is a clear danger for Japan's survival to be threatened and for people's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to be fundamentally overturned.."

-19 ( +3 / -22 )

people's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

which many feel is being fundamentally overturned by Abe

17 ( +18 / -1 )

Japan is not a sovereign and an independent nation in the true sense. We lost the war and the new constitution abolished Japan of a military to fight against foreign aggressions. America became our guardian instead to protect Japan from invasions while Japan promised bases to U.S. Forces as a barter. Japan recovered economically and JSDF grew bigger. Today, Americans feel it is not fair America has to fight for the defense of Japan and Japan does not have to help U.S. Forces fighting for Japan. Abe is changing this unfair situation a little bit and his move is welcomed by America and other western countries. I wonder what these protesters have in their minds about the defense of Japan. Do they think chanting peace in trust of good wills of neighboring countries and depending on America for the defense of Japan promise the eternal peace of Japan? Depending the defense of a country on other country is an unnatural and sometimes a dangerous thing. it is difficult to continue forever. Best solution may be Japan change the peace constitution and have a full fledged military to defend the country by themselves. There is no free lunch. Peace requires sacrifices of the people.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Whoa, whoa, whoa, @warispeace. Speak not of which you don't know.

Protests are still very much going on with just as much passion as when America just invaded Iraq the first time. There was a large protest in Washington DC and in Los Angeles on the same weekend recently.

There are protests against the use of drones, there are protests against government weekly, there are protests in DC daily.

America is constantly at war, that's an absolutely ignorant statement. America didn't decide to invade Iraq, a select few decided to invade Iraq. There wasn't a vote on the ballot, those with dollar signs in their eyes said let's invade.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

In addition to protesting the War Bills, the people ought to also be protesting against the the implementation of the Slave Identification Number system that is being forced upon the populace.

No War. No Slavery.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Beautiful. I hope the numbers keep increasing. The media can't hide it. Always a sign of a police state when the numbers are low balled

Afraid there's not much anyone can do if they keep electing in stupid people. Pick a country where Conservatives have value and I'll show you a sad country. It should be pointed out that Japan is hardly alone with this problem, my own country is in the middle of an election. And what should be obvious change is mired by a possible 3 way split vote. Ugh.

I wonder how long it will take for countries to represent their people and not corporations? My lifetime? Sadly it's probably longer

All one can do is hope for change and appreciate it when it takes steps

13 ( +14 / -1 )

I wonder what these protesters have in their minds about the defense of Japan. Do they think chanting peace in trust of good wills of neighboring countries and depending on America for the defense of Japan promise the eternal peace of Japan?

Probably these protesters know that Japan has one of the most weaponized militaries in the world, with strong defensive capability, and a sizable portion of tax money is spent each year on the latest and most sophisticated arms. If anything, too much corporate welfare is given to the arms industries and it would be good if there was also protests against this.

Also, you should question just what it is that Japan needs to protect? Here there is huge debt, a greying society, low food production and few natural resources. More trouble than it's worth.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

If Abe’s party changes the constitution in the ways that it wants, Japan might move more toward intolerant government and away from human rights. Most people in the West hear only about one piece of Japanese constitutional change, the revision of Article 9 of the current constitution, which forbids Japan from having a military. The focus on the military issue has drawn attention away from the impact of the draft constitution that would deal to the freedom of the Japanese people. Majority of Japanese people opposed a recent “government secrets” law passed by Abe’s government. And they also oppose the LDPs attempt to ease the procedures for constitutional revision. The risk is that the Japanese people might be fooled into signing away their own freedoms and ignore the replacement of human rights with "obligations." It doesn't help that Japan’s opposition parties are weak, divided and mostly incompetent.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

The people don't want this bill. If it doesn't get scrapped what can you label Abe besides a dictator? You cannot impose your will on the people in a democracy. Good on the protesters. Take your country back.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

A large number of citizens taking time and making the efort to demonstrate their beliefs is always a positive sign.

@HarveyPekar

America is constantly at war, that's an absolutely ignorant statement. America didn't decide to invade Iraq, a select few decided to invade Iraq.

If you're saying that every single person in the USA didn't support the ignorant invasion of Iraq and hence you can't use America to describe the shameful action, I agree with you.

But I think people are using 'America' as a metonymy (maybe another trope - it's been a long time since I studied English), and if so that usage is correct: America invaded Iraq.

And I disagree: I think the USA has been in a state of perpetual war since the end of WW2, either engaged in war or preparing for the next ones.

By the way, RIP Harvey Pekar the great comic book writer.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I'll take that NHK survey with a huge pinch of salt, thanks. Another huge protest....should cause Shin-chan some worries

1 ( +4 / -3 )

While everyone protests a giants much needed Self defense reforms , government very quickly and quietly passed the bill on Social identification number in another word SIN with full backing of opposition . Where were all this people then . Young generation of Japan wake up before it's to late.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Thank you to all who are taking the time to protest against something you don't believe in! How many countries can say they haven't had a military conflict as long as Japan? It's a short list, and why on earth would we want to change the policies that have kept the peace for so long? Has any Asian country attacked Japan? No. Is their an emanate threat to invade or attack Japan? No. Let Japan remain peaceful.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

The mainstream press is doing a wonderful job of not reporting these protests on the nightly news.

how many times can it be reported? it's just the same protest that has been going on for the past few months. does it need to be reported in depth every time? puh-lease.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Abe's support rate is now 36%. it seems that (almost) nobody supports his government about the war bills. If war took place after the bills passed, the names of wars would be Abe's war 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,,,,because of Abe's law of war. Japanese love numbers of something like typhoon.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Can somebody convince these old timers to stop funding Abe's madness by not buying any government bonds? Maybe he will react to it.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

it's just the same protest that has been going on for the past few months. does it need to be reported in depth every time? puh-lease.

And it's precisely this sort of unconcerned apathy that Abe is counting on to allow him to push his nationalist agenda.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

One poster remarked that Japan doesn't really have anything worth protecting and that is right! Abe is intent on this course (of conflict) as a means of revitalizing Japan and for his own self aggrandizement. The procurement and production of weapons is the goal here which would revitalize Japan's industries. It is no coincidence that the share prices of Japan's industrial companies have shown double digit gains since Abe has been in power. Japan is slowly turning to support a war economy similar to the US....

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@HarveyPekar

America is constantly at war, that's an absolutely ignorant statement. America didn't decide to invade Iraq, a select few decided to invade Iraq. There wasn't a vote on the ballot, those with dollar signs in their eyes said let's invade.

Speaking of ignorance... check the numbers. 72% of the American public supported the 2nd invasion of Iraq. That seems to be slightly more than "a select few" deciding. That is huge public support for the decision.

Now we see 68% of Japanese questioning the need for legislation allowing for just the potential for war, not an planned invasion. What would the percentage be and how large would the protests be if it were actually about sending Japanese troops to support one of American's military adventures?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The rulers just consider us children, and they are the adult parents who have to guide us. To war.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Speaking of ignorance... check the numbers. 72% of the American public supported the 2nd invasion of Iraq. That seems to be slightly more than "a select few" deciding. That is huge public support for the decision.

America is not constantly at war but America constantly loves war very much, it seems.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

What's the point to a democracy when mass protesting over a policy you were not elected for is forced through? Democracy I its current form is an illusion that people hold the power in a democracy. Once the politician is elected there seems to be nothing stopping them doing what they want to do. This profound policy change to Japan constitution warrants a public referendum to decide if the majority of Japanese want this for their country! All democracy does is limit the time a dictator has in power.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Hi, @warispeace,

You're using two statistics taken at two completely times. You're taking a stat about the US war in Iraq before it officially started compared to a statistic about Abe's legislation after he's been running on this platform since he was first Prime Minister. One is at the beginning before we knew the truth in Iraq and after we know the truth with Abe.

Now reverse that, the public attitude in the US regarding the war has steadily dropped and the majority believes it was the wrong decision now.

And with Abe, with the last election, Abe's party won 300 of 475 seats, he was very open in 2012 about wanting a bigger military, and he had an overwhelming public approval rating.

If you compare stats, compare stats that are both taken at the same time in the timeline of that event.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Japan after the second world war is still electing the right-winger , they can't hide their warmonger nature ,,,,,,they are worse than american quite a lot ,,, let's see

Japan has no war for 70 years after WW2 and no single SDF member died during any combat, although right wingers are ruling Japan for a long time.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

From Reuters in 2013, "Shinzo Abe makes no secret of wanting to revise Japan's constitution, which was drafted by the United States after World War Two, to formalize the country's right to have a military - but critics say his plans go deeper and could return Japan to its socially conservative, authoritarian past."

"What I find strange is that although the prime minister is not that old, he is trying to revive the mores of his grandfather's era," said Ryo Motoo, the octogenarian head of the Women's Article 9 Association, a group devoted to protecting the constitution."

Abe's grandfather Nobusuke Kishi was a pre-World War Two cabinet minister who was arrested but never tried as a war criminal. Kishi served as premier from 1957-60, when he resigned due to a furor over a U.S.-Japan Security Treaty.

"Riding high in the opinion polls and buoyed by big stock market gains, Abe has grown more outspoken about his conservative agenda, including revising the constitution and being less apologetic about Japan's wartime past - a stance that has frayed already tense relations with China and South Korea, where memories of Tokyo's past militarism run deep."

...So, my question is, if Abe's been open about this since his first run as PM, and still won election after election, why are the protests happening now? Why did no one care before?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Do you actually watch the news? Last night (Monday night) I watched the 9pm NHK news, Houdou Station, and News 23. It was certainly covered on all three programs. This included live reports from the scene showing protesters were still at the Diet very late at night (I think it was around 10 pm or later, and that they had switched to a quieter mode due to the hour.

haha...thanks for that educator! yubaru just loves to criticize japan even though he is clueless as to what is actually happening. but hey, JT readers lap it up!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

So, my question is, if Abe's been open about this since his first run as PM, and still won election after election, why are the protests happening now? Why did no one care before?

Why? Voters are just stupid. Most voters thought he would make economy much better by Abenomics. But what Abe wants the most in this Diet session is to pass the war bills before economy.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The mainstream press is doing a wonderful job of not reporting these protests on the nightly news. It's almost as if the government here has something to do with it........

China's jealous. The same effect costs them a fortune.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

why are the protests happening now? Why did no one care before?

Because the prime minister isn't directly elected by the people. People cared, but Japan employs a parliamentary form of government in which parties elect their leader. If a given party enjoys a large enough majority in parliament, their chosen leader -- chosen independent of public input, because they legally can do it that way -- becomes the de facto Prime Minister.

In order for people to effectively block someone like Abe from attaining the top position, they would have to vote against the ruling party in local elections in such numbers as to boot from office a significant enough of the ruling party that folks like Abe couldn't be elevated to the leadership position.

Which means kicking a huge number of LDP asshats to the curb, which is highly unlikely given that they've been running full-tilt on a "Revive the Economy" platform while opposition parties remain devoted almost exclusively to social and public policy projects, like banning nuclear power and stopping Abe's assault on Article 9. If they had a good economic plan as well, they might have a chance whenever election time rolled around.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@kwatt, actually one self defence force member died during the Korean war, when Japan was doing secret surveilance for the US. I guess he is at Yasukuni now. I guess in a few years lots of high school boys you see running around so carefree now will be dying in US caused wars all over the world.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@harvey pekar

If you compare stats, compare stats that are both taken at the same time in the timeline of that event.

You are obfuscating. It has nothing to do with timelines. It is about the public's willingness to support aggressive wars or not and to sacrifice the lives of fellow citizens. It's also about how the people value their constitution and what defines them as a nation.

For a number of reasons, too many Americans believe in the general righteousness of their international affairs and in violence over diplomacy (Consider that a majority don't support diplomacy with Iran). So even after the lessons of Vietnam and other overseas aggressions, it was easy to convince them with no evidence that Iraq must be invaded. Had it gone well, despite finding out about the truth of the false pretext for war (weapons of mass destruction) would the supporters have turned against the war?

The protests and public opinion against the war enabling legislation seems to suggest that a large majority of people in Japan, on the other hand, have come to prefer peace.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

gokai

I said "during combat". That was almost accident of sweeping and cleaning water mines near the bay during Korean war.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Abe is not elected by the people, Abe is elected by the ruling party and the ruling party has been elected by vote with disparities up to 1 for 2.13 (actually up to 4.77) depending where you live. Prime minister in Japan does not represent the population directly like will be a president elected by a direct suffrage in a democracy where a 1 vote equals 1 vote.

The Okayama branch of the Hiroshima High Court court ruled that the results of the 2014 House of Representatives election were “in a state of unconstitutionality” due to disparities in the weight of votes between constituencies, but guess what ? It rejected the plaintiffs’ demand to nullify them therefore I can see protesters having a lot of reason to protest since clearly the Abe's vision for a great Japan is imposed on the population.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It's surprising that 45,000 people turned up for the rally on Monday to protest Abe's controvertial security bill. But weren't they supposed to be working on Monday?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

It's surprising that 45,000 people turned up for the rally on Monday to protest Abe's controvertial security bill. But weren't they supposed to be working on Monday?

the tactic of abe election was the month were monk used to have a rest from working ,, He used that to be elected ,,, 45K on monday ,,,, If america want to fake protest a million will get out protesting more violent than this carnival ,,, Japan has no idea how to topple a leader they always want someone to do it for them

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Abe listen to the people!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

In december japanese used to be either busy in work or farmers if they are able to vote they were all having a rest on that day

You must be kidding there are NO major crops being cultivated in DECEMBER. Its WINTER. What do you claim the farmers are so busy about?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Dear opposition party politicians:

Want to grow your party? Now is the perfect time to take a stand and get the public to notice you. As long as the LDP can dominate the Diet, this selling-out of the public will always loom over the country. Prove you have the guts to lead by taking action, and you can break the LDP stranglehold and start getting genuine debate on matters of substance.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@kwatt I understand what you are saying. It is interesting ot me that only 5 or 6 years after the end of WWII, the US is already using Japan in its war operations. From now, expect Japan to be involved in an even bigger way - combat - with all those dead young Japanese guys. As people say, Abe is not elected by the people, just some brainless farmers becuase he is from a "political family". The farmers are ruining Japan. NEVER go to Yamaguchi Prefecture. It is all their fault.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Security bills, full scale military operations and a new Japanese base built in the Senkuku islands is best for Japan. China keeps building and no one stops them why should building on the Senkukus be any different. My yen is well spent. Keep the US alliance and make it stronger. A stronger US and a stronger Japan is best for all of Asia

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Just wanted ta draaaaawp this quote in here from Senor Tummychuckles... Love this.

While creating a virtuous economic cycle, I will spread the feeling of recovery to every nook and cranny of the regions and throughout the country, completely escape deflation and create growth in a strong, future-oriented economy,”

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'm usually against expansion of military but if Japan doesn't step up to plate China will devour her. I bet you the Chinese government is happy about these protest while keeping their people in the dark and repeating the rhetoric Japan is dangerous and will try to attack China.

This is really a catch 22. If you pass it China will point the finger if you don't pass it they will point the finger. Either way since Obama got in the whitehouse Asia has been destablizing and a slow march of war seems to been the new tune of the region. Hopefully the whitebouse gets a leader that will cause China to take a few steps back, but I don't see that happening.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The mainstream press is doing a wonderful job of not reporting these protests on the nightly news.

and you must be doing a wonderful job of not watching the news. as educator said, it was covered on several major networks last night.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

If Abe passes this legislation with the majority of the nation CLEARLY against it, then I'm sorry Japan is nothing but a dictatorship like China. And Abe WILL pass it, same as he has done with other things the majority are against, including the secrets law and restarting the NPPs; all due to his vested and/or personal interests -- the very definition of a dictator.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

China has no need to worry about Japan. Press reports that about 20% of the self defence force are suddenly giving up their commissions because they don't want to die, and this may drastically increase. The self defence force is already short of manpower. And Japanese men are too busy becoming women and women are too busy shopping. Japan will never attack.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

gokai

Japan was occupied by the US until 1951, so it did not have sovereignty at that time. The US built many military bases all over Japan and surely used Japan as much as possible to win the Korean war. Japan is now so sovereign country that US can't do easily that way. Abe was elected every time by ordinary people there. Many local people know well his family and did not have much knowledge about politics years ago, so should not be blamed. Former prime ministers used to listen to many different voices of people to rule Japan good, but it seems that today's Abe does not listen good any more like some kinda dictator. I think Abe would fail in a few years.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Press reports that about 20% of the self defence force are suddenly giving up their commissions because they don't want to die

Did they say that, or did they say resignations are 20% up (that's what I heard)? Not the same thing. The former is a crisis, the latter may even be healthy - too many bureaucrats in the force. Might as well see how is really in for this.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The NHK survey showed, however, support for the government rose by six percentage points from the previous poll in August to 43%.

Of course, the NHK's eating out of Abe's hand!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We should not the survey was carried out by NHK. If there is any bias in the survey, somethingone often suspects, the bias would be in Abe's favour. It seems even NHK has to admit that most Japanese are against Abe on this.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Watch Japanese voters vote to keep the LDP in power next election.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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