U.S. believes Japan on China radar incident

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  • 22

    semperfi

    Problem for China is - Japan has the evidence. . . . . .

  • -38

    volland

    "U.S. believes Japan on China radar incident"

    Wow! Who would have thought.......

    @semperfi And as usual an american like yourself is the one who decides what is evidence and what not?

  • 17

    sfjp330

    Article states: "But State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said that the U.S. was briefed by Japan, and quote, “we have satisfied ourselves that it does appear to have happened.”

    If U.S. wants to maintain the leadership position in the Pacific Rim, and China and Japan seem to believe it currently holds, then non-involvement on this important issue isn’t really even an option. Based on the evidence, U.S. agrees with Japan that radar lock happened. Now China will deny again that this happened, so credibility toward the international community will continue to be a problem for China.

  • -22

    Konsta

    sfjp330Feb. 12, 2013 - 07:37AM JST... Based on the evidence, U.S. agrees with Japan that radar lock happened. Now China will deny again that this happened, so credibility toward the international community will continue to be a problem for China.

    Except there is no evidence and the credibility issues emerge for the US. I can be hardly called a China sympathizer, but anyone serious, who reads this article, feels like what the Hell is going on?! Is it a matter of "belief" now? What about the evidence? The two countries almost started shooting and the US was briefed and satisfied itself with explanations? How cute. And it does appear to have happened! What is this language, for God's sake? Seriously. Either the Nuland should be fired or the incident never happened and the US is covering for Japan's mistake.

  • -28

    Tony Ew

    Somebody have to ask the States Department : 'Did Japan photoshoped the radar locked incident"? Japan have to explain why she took so long to release the information. Something fishy here!

    Can China take a peek at the evidence please?

  • 14

    LFRAgain

    Konsta,

    "Except there is no evidence "

    Well, clearly this is where your argument falls flat. There apparently is evidence.

  • 9

    sfjp330

    Konsta Feb. 12, 2013 - 07:57AM JST Except there is no evidence and the credibility issues emerge for the US.

    How do you know that? This is still classified information. Would State Department make a careless statement of: “we have satisfied ourselves that it does appear to have happened " without evidence data and photo evidence provided by Japan to anger China? Highly unlikely since U.S. has to contradict or oppose formal legal argument to the Chinese.

  • -17

    Fugacis

    Konsta's hit the nail on the head.

    This is too woolly to be credible. The State Department "believes" this apparent evidence that hasn't been shown to anyone else? It definitely looks to me like the US is trying to save Japan's face after a rash political statement. Show the evidence publicly and then I might believe it. Otherwise, I call shenanigans.

  • 13

    GW

    “we have satisfied ourselves that it does appear to have happened.”

    For those that are having trouble what this means is, the US have seen ENOUGH evidence in their minds to PROVE this, otherwise that would not have said SQUAT!

    Given that Japan couldnt likely keep a secret it is very highly doubtful the US would go that route to make something up, the stakes for looking the fool are simply too high!

    Konsta etc the quote was in diplomatic language, hence its wording as such

  • 14

    splksgt96

    China is still trying to fight a war they lost 68 years ago.

  • -6

    Konsta

    LFRAgainFeb. 12, 2013 - 08:30AM JST Well, clearly this is where your argument falls flat. There apparently is evidence.

    Where it is shown? Regardless, if the evidence would be shown to the US, the statements would be totally different, unless they are such for a reason.

  • -8

    Fugacis

    China is still trying to fight a war they lost 68 years ago.

    Are they now? Well that's odd, because I could swear Japan was the country that got two atomic bombs dropped on it, twice, and ended under military occupation by a foreign power for 7 years. I seem to recall also that China was on the victors' council, and became a security council member of the United Nations. You know, that spot Japan's been trying to get its hands on ever since?

    I'm not sure there's such a thing as a winner and a loser in wars though. Just millions upon millions of losers.

  • 14

    basroil

    FugacisFeb. 12, 2013 - 08:32AM JST

    This is too woolly to be credible. The State Department "believes" this apparent evidence that hasn't been shown to anyone else? It definitely looks to me like the US is trying to save Japan's face after a rash political statement. Show the evidence publicly and then I might believe it. Otherwise, I call shenanigans.

    Publicly show technology that currently has restricted access so that the chinese can counter it? One of the worst ideas ever.

    Considering how tepid the US's initial response to the event was, they really have changed their mind on the subject if they are willing to call out china.

  • 11

    globalwatcher

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/search.html?st=china+&submit=Submit+Query

    US believes Japan's account of China's radar-locking in East China Sea

    This IS from the Washington Post. I am waiting for a release from the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journals.

  • -11

    Konsta

    sfjp330Feb. 12, 2013 - 08:31AM JST How do you know that? This is still classified information.

    sfjp330, I don't know. And to be honest, I dislike the intonation of the Nuland woman in this article. She clearly tries to escape explanation, putting Japan in an awkward position (if the proof is indeed present), thus making it sound suspicious, while her words must be along the lines: "According to analyzed information, we understand that the radar incident has taken place with the high level of probability. We would like to reiterate again how important the peaceful and non-violent solution for the whole Asia, and advise our allies and major trading partners to put maximum effort to ensure that.. blah-blah-blah"

    or something along those lines, I assume.

  • -13

    jake123

    Be patient, it takes time to cook up evidence

  • 5

    T-Mack

    China is telling the truth,... When donkey's fly...!!! US believe's Japan so what now...does this prove China out to be a lyer...???

  • -13

    Konsta

    GWFeb. 12, 2013 - 08:34AM JST... Konsta etc the quote was in diplomatic language, hence its wording as such

    GW etc, I know perfectly well it is diplomatic language. I read completely different intonation. Bad for me.

  • -14

    Konsta

    basroilFeb. 12, 2013 - 08:43AM JST Publicly show technology that currently has restricted access so that the chinese can counter it? One of the worst ideas ever.

    What technology you are talking about? A radar scan detector? You don't have to give the blueprints of a device to Chinese to show the result. Without proof there is no act, however extensively you try to explain it by existence of secret devices.

  • 11

    nigelboy

    U.S. was notified of these two events prior to Japan's Defence Minister's public announcement just a few days ago. The State Department is merely confirming what they have already seen.

    The lengths that some people go as to defend China... Seriously. Did you all happen to read the China's version of the trawler incident which was before the video came out?? How soon we forget.

  • -5

    Konsta

    nigelboyFeb. 12, 2013 - 09:09AM JST U.S. was notified of these two events prior to Japan's Defence Minister's public announcement just a few days ago. The State Department is merely confirming what they have already seen.

    I doubt they have seen anything convincing, thus the vague explanations.

  • 4

    HonestDictator

    Yeah, I'm sure every government in the world is willing to show how well their best military equipment works... if that were the case there would be no such thing as intelligence agencies and spies. Like the PRC propagandists that try to shift focus on whatever they do wrong on the world stage and think that everyone else outside of China has brains easily swayed by government run media that even some Chinese don't believe a word of themselves. Honestly.

  • -4

    highball7

    Can Japan just show the evidence? You made the accusation, now show the evidence. No point of holding back now. If China is lying, then the evidence will expose them. If not, you're leaving us with a sense of doubt. Which most certainly can't help you.

    Asking the US's opinion is like asking your big brother to help to to testify on your behalf. Its not privileged but its most certainly raises reasonable doubt. So why bother with it and just come out into the light, so to speak.

  • -8

    Konsta

    HonestDictatorFeb. 12, 2013 - 09:31AM JST Yeah, I'm sure every government in the world is willing to show how well their best military equipment works...

    Yeah, sure, keep it secret. But after the proverbial Colin Powell's tube, who believed the British, let me doubt that you need actual facts to make believe.

  • -7

    jake123

    Double standards at its best!!

    Right winger nutcases would have been pounding the table, in this forum, demanding “where is the smoking gun” If the same accusation had been made by china without evidence to back it up

  • 7

    hkitagawa

    China credibility down again...PRC risk increasing...

  • 14

    Elbuda Mexicano

    Funny, but all these anti USA posters, do you even BELIEVE anything CHINA says?? Because not even CHINESE do!

  • 1

    Duane Da'Vein

    Something good came out of my country for once. China under the communists has no honor. Japan does. When China decides to go to war with Japan and if the US don't back Japan up I will enlist or try to enlist in Japans armed forces to do my part to honor my countries obligations to Japan.

  • -2

    jake123

    @ Konsta: Can Japan just show the evidence?

    No can do , it is a military secret, Well do let me know if anyone can come up with a lamer excuse ROFL

  • -10

    Athletes

    Funny, but all these anti USA posters, do you even BELIEVE anything CHINA says?? Because not even CHINESE do

    It is doubtful what China says! However USA was a wild west before. They are looking for high noon for making the "Fistful of Dollars" and "A few dollars more". Maxican drug dealers used to buy the cheap Guns from US for their trade mission. Both nations are paradise criminals and drug trafficking.

    True believers have to remember George Bush declaration of "mission accomplished.".

  • 2

    globalwatcher

    highball7Feb. 12, 2013 - 09:37AM JST

    Can Japan just show the evidence?

    In diplomacy, Japan should keep the proof as a leverage for negotiation. When the time is appropriate, Japan and US will release the evidence to the world.

    In legal procedures in court, the solid evidence (proof) must be withheld until the last closing argument for verdict.

  • 11

    cabadaje

    Thing is...fabricating this sort of thing, an international military confrontation hoax, would be completely against the normal behavior of Japan. Alternatively, not only would the locking on of a weapon system to a foreign ship be arguably expected behavior for China, it was actually predicted by several people, even here on this site (meaning it doesn't a military or behavioral expert to see the trend).

    It's all about the consistency of the behavior. Does the military of any country regularly invite the general public to look at evidence on international disputes? Is it generally okay with releasing footage that shows at exactly which point one of their ships was able to detect an incoming attack? People clamor for the evidence, but since when has the evidence settled an opinion of the public court? People will either endorse or reject the evidence based on their previous decision, not on the evidence. It is much harder to hoax behavior.

  • 8

    globalwatcher

    I have just read the same article in Chinese Newspaper.

    I would like to read a response from the Beijing what they would say. Their lies finally got caught and cannot get stories streight. We will wait and see. China is losing a credibility and trust from the world leaders. Bad

  • 9

    nigelboy

    Just wait for China's reaction. They could state that U.S. is conspiring with Japan to make them look like a bad guy or they could simply revert to "it's not a big deal! Japan does this all the time!!" rhetoric.

  • -9

    Konsta

    cabadaje, important questions, to my opinion. And the answer is "yes", all of them. This incident became public for a political reason. It didn't stay within military or defense, as it should. Then, everything secret would work. Involving public was a deliberately made choice. Publicly asking for a Chinese apology prior even to the US confirmation, was a deliberate political choice. Spinning out the event in mass media was a made political choice. Making thousands if not more people to feel hyped and hate and be hated was a deliberate political choice.

    That is, moving the issue from the military plane to the public propaganda plane was a deliberate political choice. Thus, it is normal for us to ask questions. Otherwise, it feels like cows.

  • 10

    Teachmeteachyou

    Very hard to believe China in all of this. Can't remember them saying sorry for anything after they 'voted' (irony intended) a Communist government in power. Why would Japan, endlessly trying to calm the situation, make something like this up? It's more likely they'd suppress it from their population.

    As for people hostile to Japan still, it seems you are thinking of a Japan that died at the end of WW2 and in many ways China took on it's qualities.

    The source of this problem is a growing China seeking neighbouring territory to expand. I can only hope the free countries in the area and especially the US will be enough to disuade them from leaving a path of diplomacy and non-agression.

  • 9

    darknuts

    Why would the Japanese make this up? They have nothing to gain by escalating this situation and everything to lose. As provacative as China has been lately, I have no doubt japan is telling the truth.

  • -7

    Konsta

    Look, globalwatcher, I don't even understand what you are writing, even less the point, which you are trying to make. I do not think this radar incident will result in any war, but since it is made public and we discuss it here thanks to JT, so ... why not to discuss.

    You, on the contrary, brought reference from the Washington Post, which is almost word-to-word reprint of the same article as here from the same AP agency. Care to explain how it supports the current material, or the more often you repeat, the more believable it becomes?

  • 5

    nandakandamanda

    Last time Japan was called (on the ramming incident) and finally produced the proof, China accused them of making China lose face in front of the world. " Why didn't Japan produce it immediately", they asked. "Why wait? Were they deliberately savoring the moment? Proof of cunning, ulterior motives", etc.

    This time the Japanese are being super, super careful to a) collect the evidence and b) not offend China by making them lose face again. The proof is there, but whatever Japan do with it, it will be wrong. A statement from America saying they have seen it and it looks credible is a good third, attention-deflecting way out and draws the sting out of a tit-for-tat situation where Japan is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

  • -4

    smithinjapan

    semperfi: If they have the evidence, great -- prove it. All this, "We have proof but we won't show you" isn't even a step above grade 6 school-yard taunting. They won't even show the US military the so-called proof!!

  • -7

    Tony Ew

    @cabadajeFeb. 12, 2013 - 10:18AM JST

    Thing is...fabricating this sort of thing, an international military confrontation hoax, would be completely against the normal behavior of Japan. Alternatively, not only would the locking on of a weapon system to a foreign ship be arguably expected behavior for China, it was actually predicted by several people, even here on this site (meaning it doesn't a military or behavioral expert to see the trend).

    It's all about the consistency of the behavior. Does the military of any country regularly invite the general public to look at evidence on international disputes? Is it generally okay with releasing footage that shows at exactly which point one of their ships was able to detect an incoming attack? People clamor for the evidence, but since when has the evidence settled an opinion of the public court? People will either endorse or reject the evidence based on their previous decision, not on the evidence. It is much harder to hoax behavior.

    I am very worried now! If this kind of rational works, I might as well be in PRC! I thought the Western democracies and Japan are supposed to have a higher morality! Accusing someone and cover up the 'proof' due to 'classified information' , taking time to 'doctored?' the data and present it to US States Department. Absolutely Brilliant! Let's get a team of computer forensic scientists from UN to settle the matter, okay?

  • 7

    Surf O'Holic

    @konsta, living in denial doesn't change the facts of China's provocative and deceptive actions both physically and politically. How can you defend such nonsense?

  • -11

    BertieWooster

    Who cares?

    Did the Chinese do it?

    Is there proof?

    Was it photoshopped?

    It doesn't matter!

    This is all SMOKESCREEN.

    Abe needs to go to China and discuss the situation.

    Or he needs to invite Chinese representatives here to discuss it.

    Two way communication, understanding and agreement is needed to resolve this.

    How can he call himself any kind of leader if he doesn't even have the balls to do this?

  • 5

    globalwatcher

    Please, please read how serious this issue is. China has to stop this harrasement. This is a serious violation of UN rules. These suveillance ships are Chinese Navy ships.

    http://china-pla.blogspot.com/2013/01/chinas-recent-expansion-of-civilian.html

    China's recent expansion of Civilian Maritime Force-January 2013

    I do not care how you slice it, China is playing with fire.

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    IRobinFeb. 12, 2013 - 11:18AM JST

    How can we fight back this?

    Japan should let the world know what's going on. We may have to take it to UN and consider trade sanction against China just like we do for N. Korea and Iran. I am sure some countries may not go for this, but we can still try it

  • 1

    m6bob

    China looks to be very amateurish in all of these dealings with Japan & other Asian countries. Perhaps it is a sign of the communist system at work. The danger of an accidental breakout of hostilities is high and Chinese people everywhere should not just blindly defend China without thinking.

  • 2

    ReformedBasher

    China is still trying to fight a war they lost 68 years ago.

    Are they now? Well that's odd, because I could swear Japan was the country that got two atomic bombs dropped on it, twice, and ended under military occupation by a foreign power for 7 years. I seem to recall also that China was on the victors' council, and became a security council member of the United Nations. You know, that spot Japan's been trying to get its hands on ever since?

    China stood no chance of winning the war by itself. (And it had been losing every battle with the Japanese well before WW2). So, yeah, they lost.

  • -3

    zichi

    But the Abe gov't have back peddled or flip flopped on the issue, stating it won't release the data.

  • 2

    viking68

    The U.S. has AWACS planes patrolling the area since mid January. They should have also recorded the signals from the targeting radar.

    So, this comment from the state department is only a simple way to say the information came from Japan rather than the U.S.

    Proving that fire control radar was used should be relatively simple. Defense systems were designed to tell the difference between a common search radar and a targeting radar. The information is recorded so that design changes can be identified. I expect this evidence to be better than a common finger print and more damning.

  • 2

    jake123

    A top ten list of why Japan will not show its hands

    10 leverage for negotiation 9. classified information 8. be completely against the normal behavior of Japanese 7. even China got its hands caught in the cookie jar, Japan just does not want to rub it in 6. In US we trust 5. 4. 3 2 The number one is "Japan has the evidence"

  • 6

    viking68

    BertieWoosterFEB. 12, 2013 - 11:31AM JST Who cares?

    It seems a lot of people care. It is just China sympathizers don't care when facts point to China doing something wrong.

    Pointing a gun at someone is criminal. Targeting someone with radar only used to shoot missiles is also criminal.

    It happened all the time during the cold war with Russia. It was used to scare and rattle the other side.

    It also currently happens all the time on the DMZ between N and S Korea. The N Koreans are also using lasers that seek out eyes to blind the pilots, which is against the Geneva Convention. This technology was also obtained from China.

    People care a lot about it when a criminal is forcing their way into your territory or your property. If China wants to not be perceived as a criminal, take the whole thing to court and stop with the strong arm tactics and the scapegoating of Japan.

  • 3

    ReformedBasher

    If radar is anything like sonar, and I imagine it is, in addition to crew continuously scanning screens, all activity would be recorded constantly for detailed analysis later, and as proof of what transpired.

    The radar in question would be like active sonar. If planes have the ability to detect it, you can bet ships have it too.

    As for the secrecy question, some facts about what the opposing force's capabilities will be common knowledge but whatever you can keep secret, you will. Why do think spies get arrested? As allies, Japan and the US will share data but they no going to make it public without a reason. This common sense in warfare goes back before writing existed - keep the enemy in the dark.

    That said, proof may be shown if it does not compromise security.

  • 0

    nandakandamanda

    The Chinese leadership think the whole world is laughing at Japan so they can say and do as they please.

    They are not happy when Japan does something really underhand like producing proof. That would be nasty and unforgivable.

    Abe knows this and he is in a bind.

  • 3

    SamuraiBlue

    In a way by releasing the news to the public that PLAN ship locked on weapon's radar on JS Yudachi deflated some tension on the high seas since no PLAN will do it again which will only escalate the matters.

  • 3

    ReformedBasher

    @IRobin

    I don't want to see a war either. The Chinese government should be meeting with the Japanese government rather than sending planes and ships.

  • -4

    Tony Ew

    @BertieWooster

    Abe needs to go to China and discuss the situation. Or he needs to invite Chinese representatives here to discuss it. Two way communication, understanding and agreement is needed to resolve this.

    How can he call himself any kind of leader if he doesn't even have the balls to do this

    I have to say there is NO statesman PM coming out from Japan! One would think a democratic country is superior to China but what we witness here is just a nationalist trying to milk the 'radar love' to improve his standing on the world stage. Seems like the behavior of a growing democracy instead of a mature country!

    Two things makes me suspect this is not an honest PM. First whenever he talk it is just sound bites like 'dangerous' to instill fear on Japanese about China's threat. Please explain clearly beyond this 'terrifying' word!

    Next, he take** so very long** to present his 'classified data' to US. What about the general public? We want to know why so long and is it really accurate? So I say very very suspicious. Modern technology works at lightning speed. Just a minute of radar lock require days and days to process data to show to Washington, and nothing for us public?

  • -5

    Tony Ew

    @BertieWooster

    Abe needs to go to China and discuss the situation. Or he needs to invite Chinese representatives here to discuss it. Two way communication, understanding and agreement is needed to resolve this.

    How can he call himself any kind of leader if he doesn't even have the balls to do this

    I have to say there is NO statesman PM coming out from Japan! One would think a democratic country is superior to China but what we witness here is just a nationalist trying to milk the 'radar love' to improve his standing on the world stage. Seems like the behavior of a growing democracy instead of a mature country!

    Two things makes me suspect this is not an honest PM. First whenever he talk it is just sound bites like 'dangerous' to instill fear on Japanese about China's threat. Please explain clearly beyond this 'terrifying' word!

    Next, he take** so very long** to present his 'classified data' to US. What about the general public? We want to know why so long and is it really accurate? So I say very very suspicious. Modern technology works at lightning speed. Just a minute of radar lock require days and days to process data to show to Washington, and nothing for us public?

  • 1

    guuzendesu

    I can easily understand why there's so much debate on this issue. It's obvious that such a team player as China would never do something like that. They haven't done anything provocative in the past, especially not in the recent past. So to just blindly assume Japan isn't making this up is a mistake. After all, haven't they been making up all kinds of stuff lately? Um...haven't they? I'm sure they've made up something.

    And China wouldn't do something like that. It would almost be like...taunting or something. They don't do that sort of stuff.

  • 2

    zichi

    Defense Min­is­ter Itsunori Onodera has back-pedaled on his ear­li­er state­ments and is now say­ing Japan has to be extreme­ly cau­tious in decid­ing whether or not to release evi­dence that a Chi­nese war­ship had locked on a Japan­ese destroy­er in the East China Sea last Jan­u­ary 30.

  • 0

    basroil

    viking68Feb. 12, 2013 - 11:54AM JST

    The U.S. has AWACS planes patrolling the area since mid January. They should have also recorded the signals from the targeting radar.

    That's assuming it's standard search radar. Targeting radar would be far more difficult to detect unless you are the target.

    So, this comment from the state department is only a simple way to say the information came from Japan rather than the U.S.

    But using US manufactured instruments.

    Proving that fire control radar was used should be relatively simple. Defense systems were designed to tell the difference between a common search radar and a targeting radar. The information is recorded so that design changes can be identified. I expect this evidence to be better than a common finger print and more damning.

    The evidence very likely is damning, for the specialists with clearance for the raw data. The rest of us can sit back and read about it from the actual experts, including the very same US office that previously defended china.

  • -1

    BertieWooster

    ReformedBasher,

    I don't want to see a war either. The Chinese government should be meeting with the Japanese government rather than sending planes and ships.

    EXACTLY!

    Abe should be talking with Chinese representatives.

    Either they come here or he goes there.

    They need to sit down and try to solve the problem in discussions.

    If they can't resolve it, they could use the UN/another arbitrator, Norway has excellent track record on this.

    And if ALL else fails, then maybe something a bit heavier than water cannon might be called for - IF it is worth the bother for a few rocks.

    As for who caused this, who is doing what to whom, who is acting like a child, etc., IT DOES NOT MATTER.

    In all honesty, both China and Japan are acting like children in this.

    Someone should start acting as an adult.

    That doesn't mean threatening trade sanctions or military action or anything else.

    This needs one adult from Japan and one adult from China to sit down and talk about it.

    Why is this a bad idea?

  • 4

    viking68

    Basroil, I have no inside information and have only made educated guesses regarding the ability to record targeting radar. You are correct that targeting radar is more focused. It is of a higher intensity and directed in a narrow beam, which may make it more difficult to collect. Still, radar is still sprayed out like a searchlight, and there is a strong chance it will be picked up by anyone listening

    AND the U.S. is listening. There should be no doubts about that.

    The U.S. is looking specifically for traces of all types of Chinese radar to track the Chinese navy (and airforce) passively, so there should be a high chance of collecting that information independently from Japan's source, the ship and helo being targeted. The AWACS is also using active radar to locate surface and airborne vehicles.

    Still, the Japanese evidence should be easy to obtain and difficult to manufacture. Also, there is also a strong chance that the U.S. picked up on the electromagnetic radiation from the targeting radar and if they did, they would have recorded it for later analysis.

  • 4

    globalwatcher

    Here is another lie- China has been hiding banking mess too long to the world. We just cannot trust China at all.

    China's undercover banking crisis

    Off-balance-sheet lending has exploded in China, and deep problems are starting to turn up. Who will make good when loans go bad is a great unknown that could sting the global economy.

  • 1

    globalwatcher

    zichiFeb. 12, 2013 - 12:50PM JST

    Defense Min­is­ter Itsunori Onodera has back-pedaled on his ear­li­er state­ments and is now say­ing Japan has to be extreme­ly cau­tious in decid­ing whether or not to release evi­dence that a Chi­nese war­ship had locked on a Japan­ese destroy­er in the East China Sea last Jan­u­ary 30.

    When is Abe coming over here?

  • 2

    viking68

    Bertie, it is a good idea to communicate. No one has argued against it and everyone is encouraging it.

    The problem is that the Chinese position is that the islands are theirs and there is no negotiating from that position. So, they don't want to communicate, unless obfuscation counts as communication now.

    My fear is the loose cannon on China's side. Sure there are loose sailors and army guys in every country, but China has had a history of loose cannons on their side causing international incidents, e.g., the PC3 Orion that was hit and nearly destroyed with all on board by the Chinese jet fighter pilot while he hot dogged and flashed his email address at U.S. pilots. China blamed the U.S. in that incident too, which happened over international waters, and held the crew for weeks.

  • 2

    zichi

    @globalwatcher,

    sorry, I don't have an answer for your question

  • 0

    viking68

    guuzendesu, I like the sarcasm.

  • 2

    Kwaabish

    With all the trash that's been spewing from the Chinese propaganda machine historically, it's not hard for one to side with Japan on this...

    Unfortunately for the Chinese, they can't "bury" this one like they did with the high-speed train after it crashed...

  • 4

    globalwatcher

    BertieWoosterFeb. 12, 2013 - 01:14PM JST

    ReformedBasher,

    I don't want to see a war either. The Chinese government should be meeting with the Japanese government rather than sending planes and ships.

    EXACTLY!

    Abe should be talking with Chinese representatives.

    Either they come here or he goes there.

    They need to sit down and try to solve the problem in discussions.

    If they can't resolve it, they could use the UN/another arbitrator, Norway has excellent track record on this.

    Norway has excellent track record on this.

    Not anymore since the last Nobel Prize friction with China. China has been attacking Norway since then. It will not work.

  • 0

    basroil

    viking68Feb. 12, 2013 - 01:16PM JST

    You are correct that targeting radar is more focused. It is of a higher intensity and directed in a narrow beam, which may make it more difficult to collect. Still, radar is still sprayed out like a searchlight, and there is a strong chance it will be picked up by anyone listening

    That assumes that the planes are in the targeting cone or at least nearby enough. The 961 has two E-3 craft that use 25 year old radar equipment, which means pretty limited range they can cover. Quite possible, but not necessarily going to happen. With the okinawans fussing about aircraft in the area, flights to cover Japanese-only interests aren't exactly a top priority.

  • -1

    Sentiments

    Maybe the current military directive in both China and Japan should be about disclosing their military technology. Then the information in massmedia would probably get more satisfactory for some of the commentators. Yeah that will happen... Or just maybe Japan feels it has a new nice card to play at the right moment. Would be folish to give it up until there is more tension and potential higher winnings.

  • 1

    Fadamor

    Even when I was in the navy back in the late 70's/early 80's, the ship's EW gear recorded detected radar emissions. It's relatively easy to take a look at a specific time frame to determine if a fire control radar was directed at the ship. All of you saying there's "no evidence" must not have ever served in a navy.

  • 2

    Alejandro Dela Cruz

    Japan showed the evidence to uncle Sam.

    China, 1 more major mistake please.

  • 2

    25psot

    US has no reason to lie...it only confirmed what Japan already know.

  • 2

    OssanAmerica

    smithinjapanFEB. 12, 2013 - 11:21AM JST semperfi: If they have the evidence, great -- prove it. All this, "We have proof but we won't show you" isn't even a step >above grade 6 school-yard taunting. They won't even show the US military the so-called proof!

    You actually believe the U.S. State Department made this statement without the U.S. military not having looked at the data? Seriously?

  • -1

    Shuami

    You actually believe the U.S. State Department made this statement without the U.S. military not having looked at the data? Seriously?

    Japan make the accusation to the world that China had locked fire control radar on its ship. Now it only has to show its "evidence" to the US, its ally and strategic defense partner (which I somehow think is not that hard to convince) to prove that it actually happened? Seriously?

    if, as Fadamor has pointed out,

    the ship's EW gear recorded detected radar emissions. It's relatively easy to take a look at a specific time frame to determine if a fire control radar was directed at the ship

    why don't they just show that data to the world?!

  • 2

    JTDanMan

    Radars can have a track-while-scan capability. That enables it to function simultaneously as a fire-control radar and a search radar.

    Me thinks China may have some of those.

    IOW, both Japan and China may be right.

  • 1

    JTDanMan

    U.S. believes Japan on China radar incident

    So, now everyone knows: The US back ups Japan here. This is important.

    With this latest spat, and the problem last fall, Japan is winning. What do mean?

    Recall, last fall, Japan successfully got the US to state that despite US neutrality on the issue of who own the Senkaku's, the US considers defense of the Senkakus as part of our security alliance with Japan. That's Check.

    Now, the US has clearly stated that it will believe Japan's versions of any conflict with China first based solely on what our ally tells us. That's mate.

    Japan has successfully gotten the US to consider the Senkaku's as functionally part of Japanese sovereign territory, and gotten the US to affirm it will side with Japan before all the facts are made clear.

    In short, Japan has won. The US now explicitely backs Japan on the disputed islets.

    China failed here.

  • 2

    nigelboy

    why don't they just show that data to the world?!

    Consider it Japan versus China, Texas Hold'em style. China made the first move by proclaiming this is all a "fabrication" while Japan countered basically with this affirmation by U.S. (some deniers still argue that is vague but hey). Now China can bet at at the turn and claim they are both fabricating in hopes that Japan will not call the bet and simply fold or they both "check" and the issue will go away since we have this NK situation now diverting attention or Japan raise the bet by submitting indisputable evidence to the public after calling U.S. and Japan liars.

  • 2

    OssanAmerica

    ShuamiFEB. 13, 2013 - 05:16AM JST "You actually believe the U.S. State Department made this statement without the U.S. military not having looked at the data? Seriously?"

    Japan make the accusation to the world that China had locked fire control radar on its ship. Now it only has to show >its "evidence" to the US, its ally and strategic defense partner (which I somehow think is not that hard to convince) to >prove that it actually happened? Seriously?

    That the U.S. has now affirmed Japan's position is sufficient to question China's what little credibility is left and you can bet it will be accepted by all US allies. Especially since it is in the US interest to de-escalate tensions between China and Japan, and the world has been watching China unilaterally escalate the issue. Who is going to support China's positon? Cambodia? Iran? Maybe even North Korea won't now. You and every other chinafan can ask for "proof" and it really doesn't make any difference one way or the other.

  • 4

    sfjp330

    One of the problems of Chinese goverment is the apparent lack of communication between China’s civilian goverment and military leadership. There is a disconnection between China's military and civilian goverment and sometimes you have to wonder who is in command and in charge. This is the main reasons why Japan and U.S. needs to improve high-level dialogue with China on military issues for more transparency to minimize future accidents. They need to know who controls the Chinese military and who has the ultimate authority, and there is doubt that it is President Xi Jinping and the civilian leadership that has control of their military. The recent incident of radar locking raises questions about the role of its Chinese military and their propaganda, as other top civilians apparently were unaware of the military action.

  • 2

    JoeBigs

    Whoever believes the PRC is either on their payroll, is part of the PRC's internet prapaganda camp, is a communist or has real big blinders on.

    The PRC is the great threat to world peace and the worlds heath.

  • -3

    BertieWooster

    North Korea is to China what Japan is to the U.S.A.

    Woof!

  • 2

    OssanAmerica

    BertieWooFEB. 13, 2013 - 05:42PM JST North Korea is to China what Japan is to the U.S.A. Woof!

    Not really. Japan is a democracy, respected member of the international community, and the third largest economy in the world. In contrast, North Korea is a starving begging rogue dictatorship that is condemned by the international community. And while "woof" describes what China and North Korea have in common from a culinary perspective, it has nothing to do with the article at hand.

  • 3

    JoeBigs

    BertieWoosterFeb. 13, 2013 - 05:42PM JST North Korea is to China what Japan is to the U.S.A. Woof!

    You may wish to rethink that, let's compare GDP's let's see,

    United States number 1, Japan number 3

    PRC number 2, North Korea number.........oh yeah here it is 125.

    Try again.

  • 1

    Marco LaGrot

    All those concerned have billions of dollars in trade with each other plus have millions of people dependant on that trade to feed their families.This should be reflected upon and then all sides need to sit down and resolve this issue before someone gets killed.War is not a sport where one side has to prove their better than the other.I would hate to see either Chineese or Japaneese people loose their lives,in times of war all loose. Wisdom must prevail !!

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