S Korea, Japan to hold breakthrough summit with U.S.

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  • -6

    nigelboy

    Friction over Japan’s brutal colonization of Korea in the first half of the 20th century has prevented a summit between Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and South Korean President Park Geun-hye since they both took office more than a year ago

    4% annual GNP growth, doubled in population as well as doubled in life expectancy, infrastrucutre investments that still used today, from barely 40 schools to over 1,000 schools all accomplished within 40 years, and yet AP still uses this "brutal colonization" boiler plate phrase when it comes to articles such as this.

    Japan is pushing for a three-way meeting with Park and U.S. President Barack Obama

    Obama is pushing this three-way meeting not Japan. What Abe asked for is an open dialogue policy with NO prerequisites set forth by both parties.

    A meeting seemed all but impossible until last Friday, when Abe said for the first time that his government is not considering a revision of the country’s 1993 apology for forcing Korean and other women to work in brothels for Japanese soldiers before and during World War II.

    False. He never stated revising the Kono Statement. This was also true during his first tenure. Much like NYT alike, AP is clueless when discussing Japanese politics.

    Hence, nothing in Abe's stance changed for it was Pak that caved in.

    Japan’s intentions on the 1993 apology came into question last month after it said it would re-examine the accuracy of interviews conducted with women who said they were forced to provide sex. The interviews formed part of the basis for the apology.

    And according to Suga, he indicated that he still thinks such re-examination should be done for they intend to show the public that Kono made those statements despite no evidence to support that IJA as a policy, conducted coersion/kidnapping of these women. However, as Abe cabinet stated, they will continue to honor the 1993 statement.

    Interesting article I read the other day.

    http://sankei.jp.msn.com/west/west_affairs/news/140315/waf14031509060005-n1.htm

    The article indicates that due to Korea's anti-Japan stance and the increasing negative public views of Korea by the Japanese citizens, there exists a scenario that the Japanese government could simply refuse U.S. forces to use bases in Japan if NK and SK gets into a full fledged conflict.

  • -1

    EthanWilber

    “Abe and people close to him have expressed revisionist views about history in the past, and any repetition of them could anger Koreans again.”

    That might be the case based on Abe’s past records, but still, it may be worth the risk for S.K to give Abe a chance to prove himself considering the potentials ahead. Further, given that there will be a summit between Park and Xi over there, a three-way meeting attended by Obama, Abe and Park would be a great way to show the united front of allies on the spot.

  • -7

    Harry_Gatto

    This woman is a non-entity on the world stage, Abe san should just ignore her and let her stew.

  • -3

    John Master

    @nigelboy

    I guess you forgot to mention that those investment were made for the benefit of JAPANESE people who migrated to Korea.

    Do you really think Japan invested that much money for the benefit of Korean people? Hell no. My grandmother LIVED through Korean annexation, and she told me all about her experience with Japanese occupation.

  • -2

    nigelboy

    I guess you forgot to mention that those investment were made for the benefit of JAPANESE people who migrated to Korea.

    That's quite an investment for a mere few. Any more excuses?

  • -14

    tinawatanabe

    I hope SK will refuse to meet. Why would Japan want to meet with SK.

  • 9

    JohnY921

    According to Nigelboy's analogy, Japanese people should be grateful to the US for the bombing of Hiroshima. The life expectancy and the GDP per capital of Japanese have risen significantly since nuking of Hiroshima.

    Additionally, African Americans should be grateful to the whites for bringing them as slaves to the US. African Americans have higher life expectancy and income than those Africans in Africa.

    Nigelboy, try to imagine how you would feel if you were a victim of war crime. What if you were forced to be a sex slave? ... Learn to have some compassion. There are many victims still suffering from savagery committed by the war criminals, Japanese Imperial Army.

  • 3

    marcelito

    JohnY921 -you are spot on. but you do need to realize that in nigelboy,s view Japan can do no wrong...ever. Case closed.

  • 0

    SamuraiBlue

    The three party talks will certainly be interesting seeing Japan showing support to the US in the Crimea crisis by issuing sanctions against Russia even though it has no benefit for Japan.

    I wonder what kind of present SK has readied towards the US?

  • 2

    Serrano

    "Friction over Japan’s brutal colonization of Korea in the first half of the 20th century has prevented a summit between Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and South Korean President Park Geun-hye since they both took office more than a year ago."

    This is ridiculous, the Japanese government should issue a wide-ranging acknowledgement of the war crimes and injustices committed by the Japanese from 1910-1945, and the Korean government should accept it and MOVE ON ALREADY!

  • -6

    SamuraiBlue

    @Serrano

    The unfortunate truth is that Japan DOES NOT face any WAR CRIMES against Korea since Japan was never at war with Korea during that period.

  • -6

    nigelboy

    According to Nigelboy's analogy, Japanese people should be grateful to the US for the bombing of Hiroshima. The life expectancy and the GDP per capital of Japanese have risen significantly since nuking of Hiroshima.

    That's rather poor analogy since I recall it was Japan that mostly built back after it was utterly destroyed by US bombings.

    Additionally, African Americans should be grateful to the whites for bringing them as slaves to the US. African Americans have higher life expectancy and income than those Africans in Africa.

    Another poor analogy comparing slavery to annexation.

    Nigelboy, try to imagine how you would feel if you were a victim of war crime. What if you were forced to be a sex slave? ... Learn to have some compassion. There are many victims still suffering from savagery committed by the war criminals, Japanese Imperial Army

    As SamuraiBlue mentioned, Japan was not at war with Korea. Koreans, at that time, were willing participants fighting alongside with Japan.

  • 7

    kickboard

    My grandmother LIVED through Korean annexation, and she told me all about her experience with Japanese occupation

    What about the old korean dude who said "life wasn't bad at all during the annexation" and got beaten to death?

  • -4

    chucky3176

    What about the old korean dude who said "life wasn't bad at all during the annexation" and got beaten to death?

    Please stop believing everything what Japanese media prints about Korea. Half of them are lies and exaggerations these days. It's no wonder Japan's press index has plummeted in the last two years alone.

    And Japan is mistaking with hopes up. Park said she will meet with the US president. She never mentioned anything about meeting with Japan's PM nor mentioned any thoughts to change her mind. Sorry Japan, but it ain't happening.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    Please stop believing everything what Japanese media prints about Korea. Half of them are lies and exaggerations these days. It's no wonder Japan's press index has plummeted in the last two years alone.

    <http://media.daum.net/society/others/newsview?newsid=20130912144207777 >

    And Japan is mistaking with hopes up. Park said she will meet with the US president. She never mentioned anything about meeting with Japan's PM nor mentioned any thoughts to change her mind. Sorry Japan, but it ain't happening.

    No Chucky. You were dead on previously that Japan had no intentions of meeting with Korea.

  • -5

    chucky3176

    What did I say about exaggerations used by Japanese media to stoke anti Korean feelings in Japan? They were drunk like skunk and they got into a bar fight which ended in tragedy. Nothing to do with Japan.

    <http://media.daum.net/society/others/newsview?newsid=20130912144207777 >

    No Chucky. You were dead on previously that Japan had no intentions of meeting with Korea.

    Only proves Japan's double handed performances to fool others. Japan may fool others, but Korea has long ago realized how Japan plays this game, thus the lack of trust for Japan on what anything Japan says.

  • -1

    nigelboy

    What did I say about exaggerations used by Japanese media to stoke anti Korean feelings in Japan? They were drunk like skunk and they got into a bar fight which ended in tragedy. Nothing to do with Japan.

    Read the article.

    Only proves Japan's double handed performances to fool others. Japan may fool others, but Korea has long ago realized how Japan plays this game, thus the lack of trust for Japan on what anything Japan says.

    Nope. It's simply a message to Korea to stop using the over leveraged history card. It expired. That's the "game" Korea has been playing.

  • 1

    nigelboy

    nigelboy, where exactly are you getting your data from? Do you think for yourself? Or are you just repeating what your circle of net right-wing friends are saying?

    The data from Governer general of Korea is well documented. Perhaps reading one of them would help. Like schools.

    http://www.jacar.go.jp/DAS/meta/image_A03034151700?TYPE=jpeg

    Or economy

    http://kindai.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/974961/8

  • -9

    chucky3176

    Of course nigelboy and his group won't reveal how much of those benefits went to Koreans and not to Japan or Japanese military. How many Koreans were land owners iin Korea as opposed to the Japanese who owned land in Korea, Nigel? How many of the businesses and factories were owned by Koreans, as opposed to the Japanese? How much rice, coal, gold, timber, cultural artifacts from Korea were diverted to Japan and Japanese military? Of course, the Japanese will never mention any of these.

    • Moderator

      chucky3176 and nigelboy, please do not address each other any further on this thread since all you are doing is bickering.

  • 1

    StormR

    At least the SK's are coming to the table for talks, then Japan just needs to get China for a sit down.

    Talking is the start, unlike the bickering that goes on here.

  • 6

    marcelito

    Someone please keep Ishihara, Tanigaki ,NHK managment and the rest locked away somewhere until the meeting is over so they don't have a chance to torpedo it with some new right wing BS comment.

  • 1

    CrazyJoe

    Without a common perception of historical facts, a truly friendly, cooperative, future-oriented policy cannot be built. Politicians attempt to gloss over wartime history.

  • 6

    Tohka

    Don't be such a bunch of avid pessimists. True, there is always a chance that this meeting won't really be meaningful, but to me, even a CHANCE at making things better than not having one at all.

    Hoping for the best out of this.

  • -2

    Athletes

    Although not a one-on-one encounter, the talks are a significant step forward after Park had repeatedly ruled out a summit with Abe until Tokyo demonstrates sincere repentance for “past wrongdoings”.

    According the photo, Abe is showing one finger as threat for Takeshima day. Park is withdrawing both hands from desk. Obama is too pushy for pimping Park for meeting with Abe. Abe is nothing important for Park unlike Obama or Putin.

    If Park has been assaulted by Abe, Obama is responsible for defending Park. After all there will be only three persons at the meeting. Abe should be well mannered and well behaved as head of state for three way submit.

    Any wrong doing or outspokenness of Abe will be embarrassment for the whole Japan.

  • 1

    Peacetrain

    I realize that this is an exercise in futility but here goes. Here is my open letter to the SK govt and people.

    The rest of the world knows what Japan did during WW2. If you don't want people to forget then keep retelling the facts in schools, museums, documentaries, movies etc.

    But just forget about wanting the current or successive Japanese PMs to apologize. Apologies made through asking or coercing are never going to be satisfying.

    Just ignore Japanese politicians and rightists when they make ignorant statements. They haven't stopped yet and aren't going to.

    Forget about what Japanese say and do in a Japan and just go ahead and show the world how great Korea is. Hold talks with Japan and be the mature party.

    What is there to lose by talking with Japan?

    Just make some moving wartime dramas with romantic characters to make your point. You'll end up achieving more with the Japanese people (many of whom like your food,music, dramas, Estée etc) that way than always being angry.

    Japan is no threat to Korea. Worry more about that guy over the border.

  • 1

    Mitch Cohen

    4% annual GNP growth, doubled in population as well as doubled in life expectancy, infrastrucutre investments that still used today, from barely 40 schools to over 1,000 schools all accomplished within 40 years, and yet AP still uses this "brutal colonization" boiler plate phrase when it comes to articles such as this.

    @nigelboy - That is typical neto-uyo revisionist propaganda. Interestingly you fail to mention kidnapping, torture and murder of Koreans who called for independence.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1st_Movement

    Do you also believe Japan was only trying to liberate Asia and never invaded anyone?

  • 3

    Cricky

    If you believe the theory of Japan freeing other countries from oppression by oppressing said countries, then you are an idiot, what country looks back and says thank goodness for Japan, coming, raping and killing in a most brutal way. What country celebrates it's liberation buy the Imperial Japanese Army. What country says thank you Japan.

  • -4

    Thomas Anderson

    migelboy and other right-wingers, stop wasting your time, nobody outside of the Japanese right-wing bubble is ever going to believe that Japan only improved Korea etc, and never did any wrong.

    What's sad is that those brain-dead right-wingers think that the people outside of Japan are stupid enough to believe those lies that Japanese empire liberated Asia.

  • -1

    kaiser90

    If you believe the theory of Japan freeing other countries from oppression by oppressing said countries, then you are an idiot,

    Many Japanese believe it now. There is a bunch of idiots in Japan. Obviously, there is no bright future for this country.

    What's sad is that those brain-dead right-wingers think that the people outside of Japan are stupid enough to believe those lies that Japanese empire liberated Asia.

    And they think that they, or Japanese in general, deserve to be respected no matter what they do, even they deny history.

  • -2

    Mitch Cohen

    4% annual GNP growth, doubled in population as well as doubled in life expectancy, infrastrucutre investments that still used today, from barely 40 schools to over 1,000 schools all accomplished within 40 years, and yet AP still uses this "brutal colonization" boiler plate phrase when it comes to articles such as this.

    @nigelboy - You often claim that since Korea was part of Japan during WW2, Korea was complicit in Japan's atrocities.

    Using your logic, wasn't Japan just investing in Japan (formerly known as Korea) with those infrastructure projects? Or do you want to have it both ways?

  • -1

    Jerrysisland

    Luckily they meet in the Netherlands, a country managing its colonies rather well (Indonesia) and not in Belgium next door (Kongo). Without shrinks you just cannot move on. If this is all about the TPP thing or TTIP in Europe then better be aware.

  • -9

    chucky3176

    I have checked the Korean news, and found out that there's zero mention of this supposed coming talks. Either there is simply no interest in Korea about this story, or someone has got this story wrong. Fifty five percent of Koreans in a poll think S.Korea should hold a summit with Japan, but that's about all the concern there is, other then maybe a couple of editorials here and there. Simply put, not many stories on Japan related news either. I get the feeling a lot of Koreans think it's just same old and same old, so it's the who cares attitude.

  • -2

    innit

    http://media.daum.net/politics/newsview?newsid=20140321195311155

  • 4

    toshiko

    @chucky3176MAR. 21, 2014 - 09:15PM JST I have checked the Korean news, and found out that there's zero mention of this supposed coming talks. Either there is simply no interest in Korea about this story, or someone has got this story wrong. Fifty five percent of Koreans in a poll think S.Korea should hold a summit with Japan, but that's about all the concern there is, other then maybe a couple of editorials here and there. Simply put, not many stories on Japan related news either. I get the feeling a lot of Koreans think it's just same old and same old, so it's the who cares attitud

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    Chucjy; This is JapanToday, not KoreaToday. So, people over here comment Japan and Korea instead of ignorant on current situation regarding relationship between Korea and Japan.

  • 4

    SamuraiBlue

    Looks like some Koreans believes that by denying the truth a hundred times will make it false even when there is various statistics and documented evidence enforcing it.

    Simple minded people, LoL.

  • -6

    chucky3176

    Looks like some Koreans believes that by denying the truth a hundred times will make it false even when there is various statistics and documented evidence enforcing it.

    The old proverb is by claiming false facts over a hundred times, it becomes the truth.

    Chucjy; This is JapanToday, not KoreaToday. So, people over here comment Japan and Korea instead of ignorant on current situation regarding relationship between Korea and Japan.

    "Relationship between Japan and Korea", is the same thing as "relationship between Korea and Japan".

    http://media.daum.net/politics/newsview?newsid=20140321195311155

    NIce that you dug one up buried somewhere on internet news. Just shows you what kind of interest on this topic there really is - not much.

    I did find a short blurb here by a mainstream paper though.

    http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2014/03/21/2014032102984.html?news_Head1

  • 3

    nigelboy

    @nigelboy - That is typical neto-uyo revisionist propaganda. Interestingly you fail to mention kidnapping, torture and murder of Koreans who called for independence.

    I didn't mention the looting , arson, and murder by Koreans themselves either. What is your point?

    Do you also believe Japan was only trying to liberate Asia and never invaded anyone?

    No. Like I stated, Koreans fought along with Japanese to invade parts of Asia.

    Using your logic, wasn't Japan just investing in Japan (formerly known as Korea) with those infrastructure projects? Or do you want to have it both ways?

    Both ways? No. Like you said, Korea was part of Japan so it's only natural that the government invested in infrastructure to at least improve the standard of living close to the mainland.

    Hence, don't go jump over the fence on the other side and claim that you are a victim when you were the perpetrator who should be making amends to other Asian nations.

  • 4

    gelendestrasse

    Japan's right wingers can make a hash of the comfort women apology and on and on but they are a minority in Japan. Abe has stated there's no going back. But the Koreans insist on being insulted to the point of not talking about the 800 pound gorilla in the region. That's just foolishness.

    Japan invested in Korea for years now and it's benefited everybody in SK. Japan paid compensation and the SK government misappropriated it. The Koreans keep coming back to the table asking for more, more, more.

    If the Koreans aren't happy about their colonial past with China what will they think about their future colonial status to China?

    Both sides need to give it up and talk about the modern issues in the area.

  • -1

    tokyodoumo

    Until ABE took office 15 months ago Japan Korea relationship was pretty much on an even keel without signs of serious strain. It was only when ABE announced to retract Official apology made by Japanese Govt. followed by visit to Yasukuni and then a proposal to re-investigate the validity of Comfort Women that made things go to hell. Shame on ABE for creating so much strain and grief for both Korea and Japan.

  • 3

    nigelboy

    Until ABE took office 15 months ago Japan Korea relationship was pretty much on an even keel without signs of serious strain.

    What a load of BS. The strain started when the prior President landed on Takeshima and insulted the Emperor.

    It was only when ABE announced to retract Official apology made by Japanese Govt.

    Never did.

    followed by visit to Yasukuni

    Which Korea had no issues even as late as 2002 where they even sent their military attache to Yasukuni.

    then a proposal to re-investigate the validity of Comfort Women that made things go to hell

    He did no such thing. It was Hiroshi Yamada of Isshin Kai who made the request.

  • 2

    toshiko

    Varidity of comfort woman, Suga proved for Abe. Historians and JSDF Library documents and books. Yes that made things hell to negators and Uyoku factions, Abe won with Suga investigations,

  • -4

    Mitch Cohen

    Looks like some Koreans believes that by denying the truth a hundred times will make it false even when there is various statistics and documented evidence enforcing it.

    Simple minded people, LoL.

    @SamuraiBlue - bit ironic isn't it, when you have neto-uyo on this very site denying the truth thousands of times?

    And what 'truths' are you referring to, that you claim Koreans deny? Are you referring to nigelboy's version of history, one where Japan was the good samaritan wholeheartedly helping Korea out of the goodness of their hearts?

  • -5

    Thomas Anderson

    Nigelboy

    What a load of BS. The strain started when the prior President landed on Takeshima and insulted the Emperor. Oh gee Nigelboy... Every Japanese sure do care about somebody landing on Takeshima and the emperor being insulted. Oh wait, no they don't, only the netouyos do. You seem to be confusing the netouyos with the Japanese population. Mitch Cohen And what 'truths' are you referring to, that you claim Koreans deny? Are you referring to nigelboy's version of history, one where Japan was the good samaritan wholeheartedly helping Korea out of the goodness of their hearts? What's even more ironic is that the nigelboy's version of history isn't even the history that is taught in Japanese schools nor is it the official history that the Japanese government adheres to.

  • 4

    JoeBigs

    chucky3176Mar. 21, 2014 - 09:15PM JST I have checked the Korean news, and found out that there's zero mention of this supposed coming talks. Either there is simply no interest in Korea about this story, or someone has got this story wrong.

    Chucky, the reason you can't find anything in the Korean press about this meeting is the same reason that it took 40 years for the average Korean citizen to find-out about the details of the 1965 treaty.

    It's called Government censorship!

    The South Korean government and the South Korean nationalistic press is censoring anything about this meeting. They don't want anyone to know that President Park is to meet with Prime Minister Abe. She'll most likely order the transcripts classified for 40 years.

    Just more hypocrisy coming out of South Korea!

    chucky3176Mar. 21, 2014 - 09:15PM JST Simply put, not many stories on Japan related news either. I get the feeling a lot of Koreans think it's just same old and same old, so it's the who cares attitude.

    That's what your government wants it's people to think. Chucky, try and be honest for once. When were the details of the 1965 Japan-South Korea treaty released to the people? I know you won't answer it because then the facts that what you are spouting is just propaganda. So, I will do it for you....

    South Korea didn't release the details of the meeting until 2005! Before the government of South Korea was forced to release the details most South Korean's believed that Japan had never paid any compensation.

    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2005/01/17/2005011761025.html

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/GL23Dg02.html

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/S-Korea-blames-Japan-for-colonial-crimes/2005/08/26/1124563020245.html

    This meeting is something President Park doesn't want, but has been forced to accept. The US made it mandatory for her to attend, so like an angry spoiled child she'll be there. But, that will not change the outcome.

    She will walk away from the meeting and make some grandioso claim about Prime Minister Abe and Japan. Then she will continue doing what She has been doing, pointing the finger at Japan for the cold-war her government has caused.

    Her ultimate goal is simple, get Japan to pay compensation so her nation doesn't have to.

    Professor Jo Yang-Hyeon at the Korea National Diplomatic Academy said Seoul still remained firm in its long-standing position that Japan needs to do more to repent for wartime atrocities, and must stop trying to justify its militaristic past.

    Translation: South Korea wants to do away with the 1965 treaty, so they can try and force Japan to pay more money!Money makes the world go round and Korea wants Japans to pay what it should pay.

    Reunification will cost more than 50 billion dollars and if South Korea can get Japan to pay for that also the better!

    After the reunification is done, the Kim dynasty will be left with a whole lot of money to use in his future Korean kingdom.

  • -4

    Thomas Anderson

    Damnit, I need an edit button.

    Nigelboy

    What a load of BS. The strain started when the prior President landed on Takeshima and insulted the Emperor.

    Oh gee Nigelboy... Every Japanese sure do care about somebody landing on Takeshima and the emperor being insulted. Oh wait, no they don't, only the netouyos do. You seem to be confusing the netouyos with the Japanese population.

    Mitch Cohen

    And what 'truths' are you referring to, that you claim Koreans deny? Are you referring to nigelboy's version of history, one where Japan was the good samaritan wholeheartedly helping Korea out of the goodness of their hearts?

    What's even more ironic is that the nigelboys version of history isn't even the history that is taught in Japanese schools nor is it the official history that the Japanese government adheres to.

  • 4

    praack

    ah politics - all this going on - and china is watching,

    so what is the South's game? bait Japan to look amenable to China and hope China will let it alone when the Chinese Naval forces take over the area?

    because there is no real rational behind this mess other than external politics to south korea - too few us troops to protect the country, china flexing it's muscles and a weak US ......

  • -2

    MASSWIPE

    "4% annual GNP growth, doubled in population as well as doubled in life expectancy, infrastructure investments that still used today, from barely 40 schools to over 1,000 schools all accomplished within 40 years, and yet AP still uses this 'brutal colonization' boiler plate phrase when it comes to articles such as this."

    Well, that was about as persuasive as an obnoxious, almost transparently bigoted white Englishman insisting that the British Empire brought the positive trifecta of parliamentary democracy, railroads, and "free" trade to India. Japan's entire rationale for ruling Korea was that Koreans in 1910 were an inferior people incapable of effectively governing themselves--this is usually the unspoken part, but everybody knows this is what right-wing Japanese even today believe. Good luck winning hearts and minds with that attitude.

  • 5

    nigelboy

    And what 'truths' are you referring to, that you claim Koreans deny? Are you referring to nigelboy's version of history, one where Japan was the good samaritan wholeheartedly helping Korea out of the goodness of their hearts?

    Nope. What I stated was that there were positive aspects which I mentioned above that are COMPLETELY ommitted in Korean textbooks.

    Japan annexed Korea for their own selfish reasons. However, that does not automatically mean only bad things happened during that period. What's even worse is to exaggerate the severity decades and decades later when there are plenty of primary sources that state otherwise. This is another benefit of Korean government's policy of Hangul only which resulted in majority of the population unable to comprehend what their ancestors wrote and recorded.

    Every Japanese sure do care about somebody landing on Takeshima and the emperor being insulted. Oh wait, no they don't, only the netouyos do

    Survey taken in October of 2012. Record breaking % increase/decrease in Japan's view towards Korea.

    http://www8.cao.go.jp/survey/h24/h24-gaiko/zh/z16.html

    http://www8.cao.go.jp/survey/h24/h24-gaiko/zh/z14.html

    What's even more ironic is that the nigelboy's version of history isn't even the history that is taught in Japanese schools nor is it the official history that the Japanese government adheres to.

    There are no "official" history. If there are, please provide a source for it. Thanks you.

  • -6

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy

    Survey taken in October of 2012. Record breaking % increase/decrease in Japan's view towards Korea.

    And that has to do with somebody landing on Takeshima and the Emperor being insulted? No.

    There are no "official" history. If there are, please provide a source for it. Thanks you.

    Here:

    http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/q_a/faq16.html

    Q1: How does the Government of Japan recognize the history concerning the previous war?

    1) In the past, Japan, through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly to those of Asian nations. Japan squarely faces these facts of history in a spirit of humility, and with feelings of deep remorse and heartfelt apology always engraved in mind, has resolutely maintained, consistently since the end of World War II, never turning into a military power but an economic power, its principle of resolving all matters by peaceful means.

    2) In this way, Japan has directly faced the past with regard to the war and, with feelings of deep remorse, has made maxi efforts to build a future-oriented and co-operative relationship with Asian nations, especially China and the Republic of Korea. We will work to achieve the peace and prosperity of the world in the future as well.

  • 5

    nigelboy

    And that has to do with somebody landing on Takeshima and the Emperor being insulted? No

    Are you kidding me? What other "rational" reason is there to have such an enormous fluctuation? Please enlighten me.

    Q1: How does the Government of Japan recognize the history concerning the previous war?

    Japan was not at war with Korea. Why does this have to be repeated countless times?

  • -7

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy

    Are you kidding me? What other "rational" reason is there to have such an enormous fluctuation? Please enlighten me.

    Are you seriously suggesting that somebody landing on Takeshima and the Emperor being insulted is the "rational" reason to have relation with another country strained? Lol... Maybe in the netouyo world, sure...

    But nigelboy, look:

    OFFICIAL JAPANESE GOVERNMENT

    1) In the past, Japan, through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly to those of Asian nations. Japan squarely faces these facts of history in a spirit of humility, and with feelings of deep remorse and heartfelt apology

    Why aren't you feeling remorse and admitting about Japan's past colonial rule and aggression with a spirit of humility? Are you so anti-Japanese?

  • 4

    nigelboy

    Are you seriously suggesting that somebody landing on Takeshima and the Emperor being insulted is the "rational" reason to have relation with another country strained? Lol... Maybe in the netouyo world, sure...

    And I asked you what other reasoning are there for the record breaking fluctuation which you still haven't answered.

    Why aren't you feeling remorse and admitting about Japan's past colonial rule and aggression with a spirit of humility?

    ???? Why is it that you have a problem recognizing that there were positive aspects within the annexation period which Korea completely omits in their textbooks? Even post war, Korea up until 2005, only disclosed the key elements of the 1965 agreement where they were beneficiary of monies that totaled 1.6 times their national budget?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3R0rRv6v7E&list=PLz2FHGxPcAlj1jbspo3hfWIUDlKj1wEIn

    • Moderator

      All readers, please focus your comments on the upcoming summit.

  • 0

    sfjp330

    Political solutions to the problems of Japan-South Korea relations will continue to fail as long as each country’s identity is framed against the other. Japan has its own victim complex from defeat of WWII, the atomic bombing, and a sense of being discriminated against in the postwar of thier actions, making it difficult for Japan to perceive itself as an aggressor. There are many similarities between the two countries that reinforce their differences. Japan and South Korea political leaders are protecting their approval ratings by domestic politics. Both leaders need to address the past not simply as a legal issue between the two governments, but in a way that also addresses the lingering hurt of colonization at a personal and political level. Ultimately, South Korea will have to determine precisely what actions it will accept from Japan as expressions of remorse that would then enable the two countries to move their relations forward.

  • 1

    toshiko

    I really think this future meeting will now concentrate on important topics going to 21st century, Korea is clever in keeping mouth shut on Ukraine situration far away, I'd bet it is planning this meeting than meddling far away for sanction etc. Maybe Japan and Abe can learn from Korea.

  • -7

    Thomas Anderson

    Well obviously the US wants this summit to focus on strengthening the Japan-Korea-US relation to encircle North Korea and China and now Russia. But S.Korea is not as dependent on US as Japan.

  • -5

    EthanWilber

    The stakes and prices to have a trilateral summit are huge. Abe’s admin reaches a pivotal moment with implications that may go well beyond Abe’s foreign policy, which has largely failed so far.

    Domestically speaking, Abe may soon face strong resistance and even resentment from his hardcore right wing constituents since his meeting with Obama and Park would generate ramifications across a broad spectrum of the revisionist and nationalistic agenda. Suspending Yasukuni Shrine visit (for Obama) and upholding Kono statement (for Park) will Inadvertently test Abe’s political will and skills. It would be interesting to see what would happen in Japan’s political landscape in next few months.

  • -6

    Mitch Cohen

    Chucky, the reason you can't find anything in the Korean press about this meeting is the same reason that it took 40 years for the average Korean citizen to find-out about the details of the 1965 treaty.

    It's called Government censorship!

    @JoeBigs - Unfortunately for you, the stories about the summit was the top story all over Korean media the last 2 days, including the main dailies, the main portals like NAVER and Daum. I don't know why Chucky says he couldn't find anything about it in the Korean media.. I suspect he's trolling. Remember SK ranks higher than Japan in the freedom of press index.

    Speaking of government censorship though..

    http://www.jpri.org/publications/critiques/critique_XII_3.html

  • 4

    nigelboy

    The stakes and prices to have a trilateral summit are huge. Abe’s admin reaches a pivotal moment with implications that may go well beyond Abe’s foreign policy, which has largely failed so far.

    Puzzling comment, far from reality.

    What Abe's " don't go setting prerequisites" while preaching "open dialogue" has already resulted in Pak caving in which just a couple weeks ago, her administration vowed not to bend. Heck. Abe cabinet had already stated numerous times that he would honor the 1993 statement (during his first tenure as well as 5/23/13) and yet when repeated and reaffirmed for the XX time just recently, the Korean counterparts are "welcoming" this "positive" step. WTF??

    OPKON in 2015 and Japan's possibility of discouraging U.S. Forces to deploy from bases in Japan(link provided in my first post) if NK (with indirect support from China) decides to go postal, this was essentially the last chance for Pak to gain any assistance from Japan and U.S. Let's hope she behaves and not bring this over leveraged historical card to the discussion. But then again, despite Biden's prior warning to stop bringing the past, I'm not holding my breath.

  • -5

    Thomas Anderson

    Abe tried to revise the Kono statement, but failed. He acceded to the S.Korean (and others) claim that yes, comfort women existed and that it was a problem.

    He visited the Yasukuni shrine, but it was an international disaster, and rebuked by the US, so he won't visit again.

    In this summit, he will likely give up yet another many claims that he promised to his nationalist audience back at home.

    The deeper Abe gets into this US-S.Korea-Japan trilateral alliance, the more he will have to give up his nationalist stances. Of course, since if you want an alliance, then you'd have to adjust yourself to others.

  • 4

    toshiko

    @Mitch Cohen San: @JoeBigs - Unfortunately for you, the stories about the summit was the top story all over Korean media the last 2 days, including the main dailies, the main portals like NAVER and Daum. I don't know why Chucky says he couldn't find anything about it in the Korean media.. I suspect he's trolling. Remember SK ranks higher than Japan in the freedom of press index. Speaking of government censorship though.. http://www.jpri.org/publications/critiques/critiqueXII3.html€

    =================================================

    Thank you for link.

  • 6

    nigelboy

    Abe tried to revise the Kono statement, but failed. He acceded to the S.Korean (and others) claim that yes, comfort women existed and that it was a problem.

    Only Kono can revise the Kono statement. This is a no brainer when using simple common sense.

    He visited the Yasukuni shrine, but it was an international disaster, and rebuked by the US, so he won't visit again.

    He will. The Special Advisor to the Prime Minister Eto responded with the word "dissapointed" toward U.S. Press Secretary's comment.

    In this summit, he will likely give up yet another many claims that he promised to his nationalist audience back at home.

    Why on god's earth do you believe that a nation like SK will dictate the negotiations?

    The deeper Abe gets into this US-S.Korea-Japan trilateral alliance, the more he will have to give up his nationalist stances. Of course, since if you want an alliance, then you'd have to adjust yourself to others.

    There would be no alliance unless Korea accepts Japan's move toward collective self defense. If so, it's Korea that "gave in"

  • -8

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy

    Only Kono can revise the Kono statement. This is a no brainer when using simple common sense.

    That makes absolutely no sense. lol.

    He will. The Special Advisor to the Prime Minister Eto responded with the word "dissapointed" toward U.S. Press Secretary's comment.

    LOL. Which then he immediately retracted and apologized later? Abe won't visit the Yasukuni, ever, at least not while he's in office. The US master won't allow that! Poor Abe, being a slave to the US, lol. I thought he was patriotic?

    Why on god's earth do you believe that a nation like SK will dictate the negotiations?

    They just did, nigelboy. And the US won't mind, obviously, since the US is also against the Abe's nationalist stance like denying comfort women or nanking massacre or visiting the Yasukuni shrine or whatever. Abe has no moral high ground, while S.Korea may have. The US doesn't want Japan and S.Korea bickering, they will probably let S.Korea slide.

    There would be no alliance unless Korea accepts Japan's move toward collective self defense. If so, it's Korea that "gave in"

    That makes no sense. The US will likely "suggest" that re-interpretation of the (Article 9) constitution would do, which Abe did suggest that it was up to the PM to interpret the constitution.

  • 4

    JoeBigs

    Mitch CohenMar. 22, 2014 - 11:20AM JST @JoeBigs - Unfortunately for you, the stories about the summit was the top story all over Korean media the last 2 days, including the main dailies, the main portals like NAVER and Daum. I don't know why Chucky says he couldn't find anything about it in the Korean media.. I suspect he's trolling.

    That is what I get for listening to Chucky. The last few days I have been searching for news reports out of South Korea that detail the coming meeting and found none. I should have dug deeper as I usually do.

    When I am wrong I will admit it and in this case I was mistaken about the reporting.

    Mitch CohenMar. 22, 2014 - 11:20AM JST Remember SK ranks higher than Japan in the freedom of press index. Speaking of government censorship though..

    Now, I have never claimed that all nation hold the same freedom of the press as the Netherlands or Finland. I will be first to admit that all nations censor the press to a certain extent to keep their dirty laundry from being exposed.

    Japan 59 and South Korea 57 and sadly the US is now ranked 46.

    If you wish to see where your nation falls.....

    https://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php

  • 4

    nigelboy

    That makes absolutely no sense. lol.

    ??? My god. You really do believe that Kono statement can be "revised". Lol back sir.

    LOL. Which then he immediately retracted and apologized later? Abe won't visit the Yasukuni, ever, at least not while he's in office. The US master won't allow that! Poor Abe, being a slave to the US, lol. I thought he was patriotic?

    Dude. He's going. The mere fact that he responded counts.

    They just did, nigelboy. And the US won't mind, obviously, since the US is also against the Abe's nationalist stance like denying comfort women or nanking massacre or visiting the Yasukuni shrine or whatever. Abe has no moral high ground, while S.Korea may have. The US doesn't want Japan and S.Korea bickering, they will probably let S.Korea slide.

    No. The primary agenda is NK. Everything else is tertiary. If Biden had reiterated to Korea that there are pending issues that rakes precedence, moral high ground is irrelevant.

    That makes no sense. The US will likely "suggest" that re-interpretation of the (Article 9) constitution would do, which Abe did suggest that it was up to the PM to interpret the constitution.

    Huh? What essentially boils down to is whether or not Japan will assist SK militarily directly or indirectly when NK goes postal. If OPKON goes as scheduled, NK problem is that of Korea problem alone unless Korea is willing to bend. U.S. needs their forces in Japan for such efforts and Japan, when push comes to shove, can dictate whether or not such deployment is necessary.

  • -6

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy

    ??? My god. You really do believe that Kono statement can be "revised". Lol back sir.

    Then what was Abe trying to do? Just casually looking at the Kono statement again for no reason? Lol...

    Dude. He's going. The mere fact that he responded counts.

    lol, "Dude. He's going". Sorry, but are you a teenager? If he DOES visit again, then his approval ratings will plummet, and he will be forced to resign. Sorry, but the rest of the population does NOT reflect the netouyo view.

    According to this poll in the video, 51% think that the visit to the Yasukuni shrine "strained" the US-Japan relation, while 36% did not:

    http://news.tv-asahi.co.jp/news_politics/articles/000022016.html

    No. The primary agenda is NK. Everything else is tertiary. If Biden had reiterated to Korea that there are pending issues that rakes precedence, moral high ground is irrelevant.

    LOL What? I'm saying that Abe has no moral high ground in denying comfort women and nanking massacre and visiting the Yasukuni shrine. That will only strain the US-Japan-Korea alliance, so he will have to back down and tone down his nationalism.

    Huh? What essentially boils down to is whether or not Japan will assist SK militarily directly or indirectly when NK goes postal. If OPKON goes as scheduled, NK problem is that of Korea problem alone unless Korea is willing to bend. U.S. needs their forces in Japan for such efforts and Japan, when push comes to shove, can dictate whether or not such deployment is necessary.

    "NK go postal" lol what? Anyway, I doubt that the US really cares that much about North Korea. Oh yeah, and weren't you saying that Japan should improve ties with North Korea earlier?

  • 5

    nigelboy

    Then what was Abe trying to do? Just casually looking at the Kono statement again for no reason? Lol... He wasn't trying to do anything as indicated previously. He stated all along that his vpxabinet will honor Kono statement even as early as his first tenure to his Cabinet decision in 5/23/2013. It's the lawmaker from Isshin Kai that askednfor verification. Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

    According to this poll in the video, 51% think that the visit to the Yasukuni shrine "strained" the US-Japan relation, while 36% did not:

    http://polls.dailynews.yahoo.co.jp/domestic/10606/result

    Domestic policy> foreign policy.

    LOL What? I'm saying that Abe has no moral high ground in denying comfort women and nanking massacre and visiting the Yasukuni shrine. That will only strain the US-Japan-Korea alliance, so he will have to back down and tone down his nationalism.

    Huh? This isn't even in the agenda so why on god's earth are you bringing this up?

    "NK go postal" lol what? Anyway, I doubt that the US really cares that much about North Korea. Oh yeah, and weren't you saying that Japan should improve ties with North Korea earlier?

    Going postal as attacking SK when OPKON takes place. If this is remote as you perceive, this meeting is worthless, PERIOD. As Suga stated recently, "there are no urgent matters". As for your second sentence, can you be specific for Japan only cares about getting back the abductees.

    So let's summarize. The issues that Japan, who still has Article 9 in place, has with Korean peninsula is the safety and evacuation of Japanese citizens residing in Korea when $hit hits the fan and the return of abductees in NK.

    If Pak wants to revert to the old days of being a vassal state of China, please go ahead.

  • -8

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy

    http://polls.dailynews.yahoo.co.jp/domestic/10606/result

    LOL, you're citing some random online poll from Yahoo? With just 96,330 votes? Nice going... lol.

    Huh? This isn't even in the agenda so why on god's earth are you bringing this up?

    My initial point was this:

    The deeper Abe gets into this US-S.Korea-Japan trilateral alliance, the more he will have to give up his nationalist stances. Of course, since if you want an alliance, then you'd have to adjust yourself to others.

    nigelboy

    As for your second sentence, can you be specific for Japan only cares about getting back the abductees.

    So how should Japan get back the abducted? You're just going to let them get killed? And "Japan only cares about", you somehow speak for Japan?

    nigelboy

    If Pak wants to revert to the old days of being a vassal state of China, please go ahead.

    S.Korea doesn't have much to worry about being a "vassal state" of China, in fact I'd say they're smarter for trying to get closer to China rather than the US.

  • 5

    nigelboy

    LOL, you're citing some random online poll from Yahoo? With just 96,330 votes? Nice going... lol.

    And you had the nerve to post some random poll that totaled 1,000? Lol

    Do your self a favor and look up the Yahoo poll a month before.

    So how should Japan get back the abducted? You're just going to let them get killed? And "Japan only cares about", you somehow speak for Japan?

    First question, yes. Second question, no. Your last question is out in left field.

    S.Korea doesn't have much to worry about being a "vassal state" of China, in fact I'd say they're smarter for trying to get closer to China rather than the US.

    I know. They're use to it. It's no wonder they completely forget the fact that their own citizens were killed in the Korean War by them yet they want the US forces out. It was completely a mistake by U.S. To get involved in the first place.

  • -5

    EthanWilber

    nigelboy & JoeBigs,

    I have to admit you guys’ stamina and doggedness in terms of defending Japanese-styled nationalism tirelessly are quite impressive. :)

    But, in case you don't know or choose to ignore, Abe revisionist and nationalistic agenda are being hollowed as pressure asserted form the US is mounting up, not to mention the recent crisis in Ukraine has made Abe to realize Japan’s vulnerability. and his nationalistic approaches have already costed Japan a big time.

    Here is the thing: it won’t make a difference whether or not you guys agree or disagree with others points, reality is not an illusion or a jaded emotion.

    You are entitled to express what are on your minds. If you prefer, you may carry on. :)

  • -8

    Thomas Anderson

    nigelboy

    And you had the nerve to post some random poll that totaled 1,000? Lol

    LOL, take some lessons in statistics. Randomized phone poll of 1000 is far more accurate than some online poll that you can easily rig by creating multiple accounts. The fact is, there is no way that the 80% of the Japanese actually support Abe, lol. You're too naive to believe in some random online poll, rofl.

    Do your self a favor and look up the Yahoo poll a month before.

    Do yourself a favor and look at the 2012 poll during the election. According to the Yahoo poll, The Future Party or some other was going to win, LOL. So are you going to accept that? lol...

    First question, yes. Second question, no. Your last question is out in left field.

    I said how, you make no sense, not that it matters.

    I know. They're use to it. It's no wonder they completely forget the fact that their own citizens were killed in the Korean War by them yet they want the US forces out. It was completely a mistake by U.S. To get involved in the first place.

    Again, you make no sense at this point.

    • Moderator

      Readers, please stop bickering.

  • 1

    JoeBigs

    The tripartite meeting does not mean Seoul eased its stance. This will not automatically lead to a bilateral summit with Japan, Jo said.

    That ladies and gents is the fact, the only reason that President Park agreed to the meeting was that she was put into a position where she had to accept.

    In other words, Prime Minister Abe used the Kono crises to make this meeting happen. The world of diplomacy is a game of chess and this time Abe outmaneuvered Park.

    But, that doesn't mean she will play nice. it only means she has to be at the meeting.

    If I am wrong President Park will agree to a bilateral meeting with Abe after this. But, I am fairly sure I am not wrong.

    What Park really wants from Japan is money and a the only way to get that money is to revise the 1965 treaty. And the only way that can happen is if she can force Japan to her terms.

    But, seeing how Abe plays the game Park will have to give up a whole lot for that to ever happen.

    EthanWilberMar. 22, 2014 - 03:27PM JST nigelboy & JoeBigs, I have to admit you guys’ stamina and doggedness in terms of defending Japanese-styled nationalism tirelessly are quite impressive. :)

    Why thank you sir, (hoping you are a sir, if not my apologies) being put into the same ranks as my esteemed like thinker truly is a complement.

    But, what some see as defending nationalism I see it as defending the truth from propaganda.

    EthanWilberMar. 22, 2014 - 03:27PM JST But, in case you don't know or choose to ignore, Abe revisionist and nationalistic agenda.

    If Prime Minister was truly a nationalist as you claim, he would have never agreed to keep the Kono apology in place.

    You see, his motives and actions are not that of a nationalist. I look past the rhetoric and jockeying. I look at the bigger picture and if you sit back and watch this as a game of chess then you too might see what he has been doing.

    His moves have been those of a Grand Master, some of his moves seem to place him in an awkward position, but then he moves once again, springs his trap and then his opponent have to do what he wants them to do.

    Politics is grandest game of chess and if one plays it from ones heart he will lose.

    So instead of seeing his intensions and actions with a closed mined try looking at it from a neutral mindset. If you have played chess you will see what he has been doing.

    EthanWilberMar. 22, 2014 - 03:27PM JST Here is the thing: it won’t make a difference whether or not you guys agree or disagree with others points, reality is not an illusion or a jaded emotion.

    If you actually believe that politics has anything to do with reality then you need to read more. Politics is a game that has been played for as long as we have been around.

    If you want to see how it is really played look into the Cuban missile crises, what we were told was not what happened. What we saw was not what was going on.

    We only know what we are told, we can only speculate what is actually going on.

    If you want to see the beauty of the game look up the Valerian Zorin and Adlai Stevenson in their UN debate. Great game.

    EthanWilberMar. 22, 2014 - 03:27PM JST You are entitled to express what are on your minds. If you prefer, you may carry on. :)

    Exactly, as so are you and we don't have to worry about a van load of thugs coming to take us away. Democracy is a great thing!

  • -9

    Thomas Anderson

    Amazing, these nationalists think that Abe can do no wrong, lol.

  • 0

    toshiko

    S Korea and Japan have been bickering for many years, So, USA decided to arbitrate. Are there any countries wanted to become mediator? Both countries are lucky that USA is offering its service. Cheaper than engaging in a war.

  • -5

    Thomas Anderson

    S Korea and Japan have been bickering for many years, So, USA decided to arbitrate. Are there any countries wanted to become mediator? Both countries are lucky that USA is offering its service. Cheaper than engaging in a war.

    To the US, both are merely used as pawns for the US's own goals: which is to contain China and Russia.

  • 5

    nigelboy

    LOL, take some lessons in statistics. Randomized phone poll of 1000 is far more accurate than some online poll that you can easily rig by creating multiple accounts. The fact is, there is no way that the 80% of the Japanese actually support Abe, lol. You're too naive to believe in some random online poll, rofl.

    I guess you didn't look up the poll results a month before which showed an approval of 51%

    http://polls.dailynews.yahoo.co.jp/domestic/10467/result

    What your 1000 poll merely asked if it "strain" the relationship but failed to ask if they approve the visits in general, a simple question that Jiji poll avoided by asking "should diplomacy be considered"

    Do yourself a favor and look at the 2012 poll during the election. According to the Yahoo poll, The Future Party or some other was going to win, LOL. So are you going to accept that? lol...

    Nope. Elections are wholelly different animal when civic groups were campaigning.

    I said how, you make no sense, not that it matters.

    Sell out South Korea if they continue their historical card rhetoric and continue to treat Japan as an enemy by rejecting deployment of JSDF in Korea when crisis hits. Promise Kim that Japan will not assist in SK in exchange for abductees.

    Should of detach Korea long time ago.

  • 5

    SecularBeast

    Thank you, nigelboy, for attempting to get some facts on the table about the Japanese annexation of Korea, despite the howls of protest and derision.

    The 'Korea as eternal victim' crowd (including Korean politicians like Pak) tend to ignore facts that disprove the thesis that Japanese intervention in Korea was 'all bad'. Without Japanese intervention, Korea would have remained a backward feudal society ruled by a privileged minority who kowtowed to China, where 90% of the population were peasants who were mostly illiterate and had no freedom of movement, and 30-40% of the population were literally hereditary slaves - all of which Japan ended as it dragged Korea into the modern world.

    The Korean use of mangled history as an emotive bargaining chip in modern political negotiations is fast reaching its use-by date. Unless the ROK wants to return to kowtowing to Beijing and taking their orders from the CCP, they need to drop the historical hyperventilating and work closely with the US and Japan.

  • 0

    JoeBigs

    Thomas AndersonMar. 22, 2014 - 06:07PM JST Amazing, these nationalists think that Abe can do no wrong, lol.

    If all else fails use the new N word, no, not that repugnant word that most people loath. No, the new N word is calling someone a Nationalist without a shred of proof.

    Whenever you disagree with someone's views it is easier to label them a nationalist than it is to try and prove them wrong.

    If you can't counter their posts with non-bias propaganda just bring out the new N-word and bingo you and your supporters think the day has been won.

    This meeting came about because Prime Minister Abe played his cards right and President Park didn't.

    The ball is now in her court, she has a choice to make. Go down the path that has helped her nation for the last 50 years or go down the path that has tried and destroy it for those last 50 years.

    I for one suspect that this meeting will be a waste of time because President Park and her reunification crowd have fallen hook line and sinker for that giant carrot trap. And that my dear friends is the path that will lead to destruction.

    http://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/dprk-perspectives-korean-reunification-after-the-july-4th-joint-communiqu%C3%A9

    It is 1972 allover again, but this time reason will not save the day for South Korea.

    History is a fickle mistress, today's nationalist are tomorrows patriots.

    Now, this may come as a shock to you and others here, but I for one am not a nationalist, I am a realist and a freethinker.

    Being all those I am opposed to certain things and one of those things is the use of propaganda as proof.

    Abe, to you is a nationalist, but to me Prime Minister Abe is just a Japanese citizen.

    On one hand we have reality on the other we have propaganda....

  • -4

    Strangerland

    If all else fails use the new N word, no, not that repugnant word that most people loath. No, the new N word is calling someone a Nationalist without a shred of proof.

    Whenever you disagree with someone's views it is easier to label them a nationalist than it is to try and prove them wrong.

    Says the guy who uses the new C word in the same way. No, not that repugnant word that most people loath, no the new word is calling someone (or some state) a communist, even when they obviously aren't.

  • -4

    MASSWIPE

    "Without Japanese intervention, Korea would have remained a backward feudal society ruled by a privileged minority who kowtowed to China"

    This is frankly useless counterfactual speculation, no different from and no more provable than somebody declaring that "without the atomic bombings Japan never would have surrendered" or "without Western encroachment from 1853, Japan would have remained a backward feudal society."

    Again, good luck winning hearts and minds with the notion that Japan should be given credit for dragging "backward" Koreans kicking and screaming into the modern era. From his grave, the ignorant and bigoted Theodore Roosevelt approves.

  • 2

    nigelboy

    This is frankly useless counterfactual speculation, no different from and no more provable than somebody declaring that "without the atomic bombings Japan never would have surrendered" or "without Western encroachment from 1853, Japan would have remained a backward feudal society."

    The former is what most U.S. citizens believe and the latter is true if you basically had to come to a conclusion among most Japanese. History isn't about winning "hearts".

  • 2

    nigelboy

    So if Japan can't become civilized without the western encroachment, then how is it any different than Korea?

    Define "civilized"? Are you seriously going to compare the latter period of Edo to that of latter Chosun era?

  • -7

    Thomas Anderson

    Not really since Japan determined herself to do it on her own while Korea, given a chance by the Western powers, simply could not "govern herself"

    lol? Why? You do realize that it was South Korea that properly democratized on their own, while Japan only democratized (but not really) only after when the US occupied Japan?

  • 1

    SecularBeast

    @MASSWIPE - The only Koreans agitating for modernization in the late 19th Century were those who had either been educated at Japanese universities, or yangbang who saw their best chance for independence lay with following the Japanese Meiji model. The Joseon Dynasty had no intention or desire to change the status quo, and at the last throw of the dice Queen Min was prepared to seek Russian support to prop up their rotting regime, rather than modernize.

    The Joseon Dynasty would have been finished by 1912 anyway, with the collapse of the Qing Dynasty in China, and Chinese nationalist had no interest in maintaining feudal tributary relationships with Korea.

    Given the resistance to social change by the Joseon Dynasty, the only way Korea could have modernized under its own steam would be via destructive internal revolution. The nationwide Donghak Peasant Revolts in 1894 (which the Joseon Dynasty only succeeded in putting down with Japanese military assistance) are an indication of how bloody internal revolution to unseat the Joseon Dynasty would have been without Japanese intervention in 1910.

  • 4

    Peter Payne

    @Mitch and @Nigelboy, it's funny how perception goes. I've heard Indians rail angrily about Britain's occupation despite the reality that Britain built hospitals, roads and modernized the country in ways that can only be said to be good for India now. Yet Indians (maybe older Indians only, I'm not sure) are often jumping mad about Britain.

    Yet Taiwan has genuine love for Japan and is thankful for "saving" their country from the barbarism of foot binding etc. From a blog post I made after my trip to Taiwan:

    Taiwan is unique as the Asian country with the most positive relationship with Japan, and there’s very little negative feeling left over from Japan’s Colonial Era. This comes from the general impression that Japan did good things for the island during its 50 year rule (from 1895 to 1945), introducing modern industry and compulsory education for all children, eradicating diseases like malaria and curbing archaic customs like foot-binding of girl children and the use of opium. One taxi driver I talked to had nothing but kind words for Japan, going out of his way especially to praise Yoichi Hatta, a civil engineer from Japan who built many great engineering works in Taiwan, including the largest dam and an extensive irrigation system, which enabled the island to avoid the starvation other countries experienced in the aftermath of World War II. When an American submarine sank the ship Mr. Hatta was on in 1942, his Japanese wife sent her eight children back to the home islands then climbed to the top of the dam her husband had built and jumped off, leaving a note that read, “I am following my beloved.” It’s quite a romantic story of wartime love, and a famous story in Taiwan. There is a temple and a memorial park dedicated to Hatta-san and his wife today.

    Bottom line, history is a bunch of stuff that happened, and politics affects how we view it after the fact. If SK and China hadn't discovered that beating up Japan for all eternity was a great way to control their populations and avoid criticism of their current policies, Asia would be in a much better place.

  • 1

    toshiko

    Here is Kono apology full text. Hope Japan and S Korea become friend now.

    August 4, 1993: Chief Cabinet Secretary Yōhei Kōno said: "Undeniably, this was an act, with the involvement of the military authorities of the day, that severely injured the honor and dignity of many women. The Government of Japan would like to take this opportunity once again to extend its sincere apologies and remorse to all those, irrespective of place of origin, who suffered immeasurable pain and incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women" (Statement by the Chief Cabinet Secretary Yohei Kono on the result of the study on the issue of "comfort women"),

  • 3

    Gem Ofa Person

    Past is past. Every day that I see this in Japanese newspaper it starts to become terribly boring news. Every country should only take care of their own past. Everyone has scars to heal and no need to point out everyone's scars just like children do.

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