JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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Which do you think is best: iPhone or Android?
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Google versus Facebook for dominance of the web. Who has the upper hand?
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Should prefectures outside the Tohoku area accept tsunami rubble for incineration or disposal?
( 41 )
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Do you think Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) should be nationalized?
( 13 )
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Do you think credit ratings on countries from companies such as Standard & Poors, Moody’s and Fitch carry too much weight?
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- English Instructor (Osaka, Kyoto, Kobe)
- Berlitz Japan, Inc. (ベルリッツ・ジャパン株式会社), Kansai
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- Translator
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198 Comments
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0
Tatsumaru
Yes, within the confides of equal opportunity UNDER LAW, not under religious beliefs. The problem with gay marriage in the U.S. is the gay couples want to force the church, an institution/business, to do something the church doesnt want to do. So what needs to happen, is make it so that same sex marriages have the same legal, tax, insurance, etc, implications of a marriage. Which isnt exactly the case right now in the U.S.. If they just want to have a fancy ceremony, then they can do go it somewhere else, and personally, I would find it far more romantic having a wedding not in a stuffy old church myself.
All in all, I support same sex marriage, as long as they get equal rights under the law, such as stated above. Equal marriage under law doesnt mean making the religious church marry them.
People need to look beyond the inequality of the churh and just work AROUND it instead of trying to force them to do something that they dont want to. But yeah, politicians usually arent that smart.
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MeanRingo
I agree with tatsumaru. Make these unions legal under the law and to hell with the church and formal religions. I got married in Japan and had a ceremony in a fake church in front of a fake priest who taught English at a local school. Did I think it odd? Indeed. Do I feel that the ceremony lacked authenticity? A little. Do I care? Not at all. I felt married from the day I stamped the paper at the shiyakusho. A same sex couple should have the same rights. As for a church marriage, well, why would you want to be married under a dogma that believes gay love is an abomination?
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Suzu1
A lot of gays will love married life until they get divorced and have to pay another grown man alimony.
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supercub
The issue is not whether religious institutions will perform same-sex marriages. Marriage is a LEGAL status. Marriage licenses are issued by governments, not churches. Judges marry people all the time in courthouses. The issue is not religious rites; it's civil rights.
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Ultrashaman
A lot of gay people don't really want to get married, just like a lot of hetero people don't. It's more of an issue of equality and respect to them.
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nisegaijin
seriously, where is the "I don't care and it shouldn't be government's responsibility to make a call on that" option?
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supercub
I don't understand what this means. Government is actively denying equal protection and rights to same-sex couples that are freely granted to husband and wife. How is this not a governmental matter?
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1010sam
no I am not in favor of same sex marriages. this world has lost all of it's moral values. In the bible it states marriage is between a man and a woman. that is how it should be. so wonder the world is in such a bad shape.
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PaulieWalnuts
what percentage of the world reads the bible do you think? you are a small minority group
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smithinjapan
Tatsumaru and Meanringo say it best, I believe. I'm with them 100%.
1010sam: " this world has lost all of it's moral values. In the bible it states marriage is between a man and a woman. "
We're talking about marriage being 'legal', which is to say, allowed under the law, not the church. To hell with the bible -- it's an interesting read, but that's all.
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cleo
In terms of property rights, inheritance rights, pension rights, etc., I think it's fine. If 'marriage' means automatic tax/pension breaks for a healthy adult to sit at home making themselves pretty and catering to another healthy adult, then I think the whole thing needs a rethink, whether the couple is gay or hetero.
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nisegaijin
It is legal matter at best. Local courts should have the ability to make ruling on this. Federal governments should not be invlovled
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fairyprince
Neither.
Indifferent
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telecasterplayer
I completely favor same sex marriage as long as it isn't me in it.
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Coolasapool
written by hetro men...
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supercub
I'm not sure what country you are referencing, but courts are part of the government. If you are referring to the United States, then marriage law is generally a state issue, and the same-sex marriage issue is playing out in the courts and legislatures of various states across the land. The matter could become federal as the privileges and immunities clause of the Constitution becomes relevant as more states legalize same-sex marriage, and more states refuse to recognize these marriages. Also, the issue may go federal if rulings in lower courts are appealed on 14th Amendment grounds.
So basically I am having trouble understanding what you are talking about.
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Nessie
It also states approval for pimping out your daughters. What's your point?
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neverknow2
Really? Cool!! What page is that on??
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Dubya
Gays have exactly the same rights as everybody else. They already are able to get married. Unfortunately, the concept of marriage and family, the concept that lies at the basis of every civilization and society, simply does not fit their perversion. This whole "sexual orientation"-think is just a canard. When, how, and why did this perversion bcome the holy of holies? I personally am sick of being preached to that I am somewhow a bigot for pointing out that 20 years ago, this was considerred a sickness and that there has never been any reason to change that assessment - other than intimidation, force, and politics. Now we understand how the most famopus gay-group of all time - the NAZIS - came to power
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spudman
dubya what you wrote makes no sense. the bible loving radicals need to stop trying to enforce their narrow minded doctrine abitrarily on others. They used the same argument to oppose mixed race marriages as a sin during the dark days of pre civil rights law in the USA. Using a religious novel to make laws is theocratic and scary.
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USARonin
Same-sex marriage? What idiocy.
Homosexuality is deviant sexual behavior. It deviates from the norm. Why would anyone want to celebrate a deviancy and normalize it in human society? That's just bizarre.
As for their deviant sexual behavior, I don't care what homosexuals do as long as they keep it down after ten in the evenin'.
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PaulieWalnuts
oh dear
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PaulieWalnuts
it would truly be awful if the whole world followed your idea of what is normal. ronin? I think not
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likeitis
Perhaps, but being gay is about more than sex. Or is being hetero and all of your relationships with women about nothing more than sex? If so, you might be happier settling into an asexual civil union with another straight guy and just go out and cheat on him for satisfaction. Then when you get home you can talk politics, women, watch some football together and the whole time cuss like a sailor. Could be bliss.
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Pukey2
USARonin:
Apparently you do, otherwise there wouldn't be so much hate and bitterness. I'd say a lot of your posts and what your government has done is deviant too.
Cleo:
Here we go again, Cleo. Using your brand of logic, I'd have two things to see. Firstly, heteros should not be allowed to marry. A lot of gold-digging women out there who just want to marry a rich man and live the life of riley. Secondly, women should NOT get involved in politics and should not be allowed to become politicians. Why? Because we have enough male politicians screwing the public, and wasting everyone's money.
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USARonin
likeitis, I'm for what's called 'traditional marriage' in my culture.
I don't care if Adam and Steve wanna shack up. -None of my business.
But changing my society to accomodate their behavior? No.
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USARonin
Mr. Walnutz, 'normal' is what it is; not what you fantacize it to be.
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USARonin
Pukey, I reiterate: I don't care what homosexuals do as long as they and those who celebrate their homosexual behavior don't try to re-engineer my culture.
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teleprompter
Doesn't the so-called chickenhawk argument, so frequently advanced by "progressives," apply here?
If not - why?
You say you are pro-gay marriage.
I have to say to likeitis, pukey, paulie, and their special friends, that if you advocate gay marriage but are yourself not in (or are afraid of) such a relationship you are obviously some sort of hypocrite - and a "hater" to boot.
You know I am right.
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PaulieWalnuts
USARonin, I understand how it might all seem scary. the unknown, the different, those who aren't like you and don't want to be. still as you said, you don't care what homosexuals do so that's all fine and dandy. don't let it upset you anymore and move on to other things you do care about.
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likeitis
How will society have to change? I think it will still be legal to yell "queer!" as you drive either Adam or Steve. You will still be able to tell your kids that they are not "really" married, not in the traditional sense. Honestly, what changes?
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cleo
Pukey -
Sorry, I don't see what you see. I'm not saying anyone (gay or hetero) shouldn't be allowed to marry whoever they like. If a gold-digger (of either sex) finds someone rich who is willing to marry them and keep them in the manner they are eager to become accustomed to, that's fine. We should all be so lucky. Just don't let them expect to get tax breaks and free pensions (paid for by those of us who work) on top of their meal ticket.
As for your second point, I'm sorry but I don't see what connection it has with my post. We have too many politicians of both sexes screwing the public and wasting our money. What's that got to do with the institution of marriage?
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USARonin
likeitis, society will change if its citizens from the youngest on up are indoctrinated into the kind of thinkin' that homosexuality is normal human behavior. It's not. It shouldn't be elevated. It is what it is.
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likeitis
Because no one is being made to be gay in my place due to the fact that I do not want to be, that is what is different. Another difference is that gay marriage did not start with me or my support.
Besides, supporting a right to choose from afar is completely different to supporting a meat grinder of death and destruction from afar. There is something very faulty in your head for making that comparison. One is about love. The other is about people getting killed. Maybe someone can explain it better. But your error is so fundamental I cannot explain it well. Its like trying to logically explain to a small child why its wrong to kick the dog.
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USARonin
Pukey, since I don't engage in homosexual behaviors I'm not particularly concerned with homosexuals... again, unless they or their promoters try to re-engineer my culture.
Have at it all you want, Pukey. Again, what you do in private with another consentin' adult or a whole bunch of consentin' adults is none of my business. Enjoy.
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USARonin
Pukey, sorry... That last post of mine on this thread should've been directed to Mr. Walnutz.
I'm sure you don't mind and couldn't tell the difference anyway.
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likeitis
No doubt society WILL change. But you said "it will have to change". I got a completely different nuance from that.
Homosexuality and homosexual pairing have been with us for so long, I cannot say that it is not normal. What it isn't is usual. And I am not the least bit worried that it will become usual for allowing gay marriage. But even if it does, so what? Its still never going to become so usual that humity forgets to breed and we disappear.
Looking down on it accomplishes nothing. Not unless you think people need something to look down on to get by, and homosexuals are the perfect scapegoat that we just can't do without.
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likeitis
Sorry. Should be humanity.
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USARonin
likeitis, I'm not lookin' down on it. It is what it is.
Why would anyone want deviancies to be thought of as normal? That's not rational.
I believe live and let live as far as homosexuals go. They should leave it at that, too.
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mechadamuramu
Why do people insist on hating and hurting people that they no nothing about and live right next door?
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neverknow2
News flash: Once the majority agree that something is OK, it becomes accepted and once a majority begin a certain practise, it is called normal. Homosexuality in Japan has been around since the beginning of this country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomosexualityinJapan
Homosexualtiy has been around since ancient times. Just as much in western culture as in eastern culture.
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USARonin
mechadamuramu, how do you mean?
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mechadamuramu
USARonin: What are you spouting. "Traditional Marriage"? "Live and Let Live"? Just because its not politically correct to call for harsher punishment than this doesn't mean you should mask it. Honestly, what harm does being gay cause any one person? You can't say it damages "society" cause that's not a person. Bad banking damages a society in a concrete way (not in a invisible non-existent moral way), and no one is punishing the bankers. As an American I feel ashamed that my fellow countrymen would go out of there way to needlessly hurt our brethren.
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USARonin
Newsflash for Never: ad populum arguments don't change reality. Homosexuality is deviant human behavior.
Why do you want to pretend it's normal?
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USARonin
mehadamuramu, heh, heh...
What are you talkin' about? Harsher punishments about what? Banking what?
I'm not goin' out of my way to hurt anyone.
Are you sure you and your Budweiser friends are even postin' on the intended thread?
Holey smokes.
=)
0
nausicaa
i'm in favour of not caring since it is not my business.
i voted yes, because anyone should be able to marry another of-age, consenting adult.
but really, we shouldn't need a vote.
the term "equal" does not have provisos.
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USARonin
nausicaa, but you want to change the meaning of the word 'marriage'.
Marriage is between one man and one woman.
And, yes, the word 'equal' does have many kinds of provisos depending on situations.
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humblesamurai
What if everybody voted YES? What if parents of those who voted Yes said YES before giving their kids the right to be born? How can the world have new generations if everybody said YES?
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Good_Jorb
Ummm... Gay people who get married do not procreate because they become married but rather because they are gay. Gays getting married is not going to increase the gay percentage of the population, so new generations are not in harms ways and don't have to about their numbers being decemented by gays. Your questions would have made more sense if the original question had been about abortion.
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Ultrashaman
Then the hetero people would keep making babies?
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Yuki_51
To the people who say homosexuality is not "normal" human behavior:
Then why has it persisted since the beginning of time, in approximately the same percentage of the population, from culture to culture, race to race, rich to poor. What always has been, and never goes away, seems pretty "normal" to me.
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LostinNagoya
humblesamurai: your analisys lacks facts. Homosexuals are barely 10% of the total population, and among these 10% you may compute a large number of bisexuals, even married ones. What you have is a tiny number of the ¨pure¨ type of homosexuality. So how can hms decimate the earth population if 90% of it will keep having children?
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cleo
You mean like domestic violence, paedophilia, incest, murder, thieving....?
The difference between these behaviours that have also persisted since the beginning of time and homosexuality between consenting adults is that homosexuality has no victims - and people should be allowed to do what they like if it doesn't harm anybody else. But there's no way it's normal, in the biological sense of contributing to the expansion and survival of the species.
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Pukey2
Cleo:
So I guess physically and mentally handicapped people should also be treated with no respect then? Perhaps they don't deserve a life either.
I stand by my previous examples using your logic. Your flawed logic. I'd have given you more credit had you used the bible myth excuse.
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cleo
Pukey -
Where did I say people should not be treated with respect? Or that people don't deserve a life? I've stated that I'm not opposed to same-sex marriage, except for those aspects I also object to in hetero marriage. I repeat, people should be allowed to do what they like if it doesn't harm anybody else. But it still isn't normal - and, thankfully, being physically or mentally handicapped isn't normal, either. Ask any expecting parents if they'd prefer a healthy baby, or one that is physically and/or mentally handicapped.
Excuse for what? Opposing same-sex marriage? But I don't.
0
earthcreature
While I'm not gonna bash on any one... I personally don't care if they merry or not... But I still think its creepy....I'm not a big tough macho man... but I just don't think its appropriate to have that kind of stuff going around.... Also will they want to adopt kids? What if they do!! What choice does that kid have on saying NO i don't want gay parents? But like I said... I'm ok with them just keep it to your self... and have some law to protect kids who will be adopted by them... Freedom and rights are for everyone that is that... But I don't know... this is a topic of huge debate and there is no right or wrong answer.... just matter of opinions.
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mechadamuramu
USARonin: That's right that ad populum arguments don't work on CIVIL RIGHTS issues. If we were put minority rights on the ballot, then nothing would ever get accomplished without significant majority sympathy because, by definition, the minority doesn't have 51% of the vote.
Also you fail to prove that homosexuality is deviant behavior. I venture a definition of evil being any act that harms another person. Under this assumption hairy bear man love isn't any more evil than your dog humping your leg. I'd like to see your definition of "evil" or "deviant" or "equal", cause if it has anything to do with your religion then keep it to yourself as no one wants to hear it.
See, the thing you don't understand is that Gay Rights is legal equality. Gay people don't want to be a part of your witch burning crusade church, so leave them be. If they're religious they gays will get married in their own church and have no more desire to bring that into your unholy sanctuary than you have the desire to invite them. I do have to give in to your point, the word "equal" isn't always as such.
There is no equality between religious marriage and legal marriage, too bad that marriage is just such a convenient word for the situation...
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Yuki_51
And by "normal", I mean that there is a rather constant percentage of the population, since time immemorial, that tends to prefer same-sex relations. I would say that makes it pretty normal, yes. It's a minority, but its consistency, in spite of really draconian attempts to extinguish it, would suggest that it is indeed normal for a given percentage of human beings.
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cleo
That's what I said. Do please read a person's post before deciding they've offended your sensibilities.
My point is simply that the fact that 'people have always done it in spite of attempts to stop them' does not prove that any particular behaviour is 'normal'. It happens, but it's not necessarily 'normal' just on that basis. I was commenting on the faulty logic, not on whether 'normal' is a prerequisite for getting married.
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Yuki_51
I don't see anything faulty about suggesting that behavior that, over incredibly long spans of time, exhibits itself in a pretty much constant percentage of the population is by definition normal. It is not normal for all people, but it is indeed normal, it appears, to have a percentage of homosexuals in the human population. So it seems absolutely normal for a certain percentage of human beings to be homosexual.
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cleo
Yuki -
If you admit that by the same logic, the other behaviours I mentioned are equally 'normal', then I agree. We just have different definitions of 'normal'.
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IvanCoughalot
Haven't they suffered enough?
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Farmboy
Oh sure, why not? Fifty percent or more of heterosexual marriages end in divorce, and at least another 20 percent are unhappy. In neither case is there a permanent (til death do us part), loving relationship, so throw all that santimonious garbage out the window. You can't get all religious about those numbers. So...thirty percent of heterosexual marriages are more or less successful. Let's see if gays can do any better.
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Proffesor
Marriage is a union between man and woman, plain simple. If a man wants to "marry" another man, I would suggest they give it another name and not "marriage" because they will never never be the same. In a heterosexual marriage, which I, personally, would to refer to as a traditional marriage, the couple can reproduce while a homosexual couple cannot no matter what. And that's the difference.
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Blue_Tiger
If same-sex mariages are made legal, what's to stop other chosen lifestyles form demanding their "rights" also? Its a pandora's box that needs tobe kept closed....
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thegonzokid
Yes, definitely. Anything other than equality is an affront to freedom and justice. A person's sexuality is nobody's business but their own. Live and let live.
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Nessie
Lack of self awareness. Duh.
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Ultrashaman
Because the other lifestyles you are probably alluding to do not include two consenting adults.
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JoeBigs
People marrying animals? Classic far right stance........OH no, men and women marrying rabbits! NOOOOoooOOOOoooo why why why!!!LOL
Come on try a better line than that old far right religious line...
So heterosexuals are the only ones that can have kids? So they can not adopt?
Please do tell what is so traditional about a heterosexual marriage?
You should have used the ,"Not Adam and Steve" line, I always get a kick out of that one...
The thing you must understand is that the far right religious types are real hung up when it come to sex. They want to control how every body does it. But they do not want anyone to ask them what they are doing.
Just ask Ted Arthur Haggard, hope everyone remembers this strong anti-gay far right religious leader that turn out to be gay.
Loved the way that one went....LOL
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PaulieWalnuts
nice post Joe Bigs
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JayJayE
I am personally not gay, LOVE women but if a guy wants to marry another guy, it's not my business. I cringe at the idea but it's not me marrying a dude is it? If that's what they truly want and they're happy together doing their thing in their own privacy, all power to 'em, even though I don't begin to understand.
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BanZI29
What you all need to remember is that marriage is IS NOT A RIGHT!! IT'S A GOD GIVEN PRIVILEGE! Read the bible people!! it even says that homosexuality is a SIN ( a man laying with a another man is a sin) God designed us the way we are for a reason. also divorce is also a sin. there is a reason the vows say what they say. you are making a promise to each other in the presence of God. Also you all really want a reality check? Read in the Bible 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (King James Version)
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, *nor abusers of themselves with mankind, ***
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BanZI29
heres another one for you that is a little clearer about the subject Leviticus 18 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. wanna know more?? READ THE BIBLE. IT IS THE TRUTH!!
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IvanCoughalot
Ban - No doubt. Damn those talking snakes!
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Badge213
I have no problem with it, if two men or two women want to get married, how does that affect me? No way. Putting religion aside, people need the same basic rights as all other married couples. Hey guess what brimstone hasn't fallen from the sky yet, the bible says a lot of inconstant things.
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Ultrashaman
If you don't like gay marriage, don't do it.
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JoeBigs
Someone better tell the rest of the world that marriage comes from the Christian god and they better be glad they can get hitched.LOL
Now where exactly did your god say that man and women must get married? please do not forget to add where he asked us to get those pesky marriage licenses.
Interesting you bring up the Old Testament there. Since you follow the old testament (The Talmud) then you must also and I quote;
Don't forget to kill those witches because it is so written
Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
Next if you curse at your parents then you get the stoning also
Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
I love when you guys bring up these old laws. But you only bring out the ones that you think help you feel good about your feelings. You forget if you only follow one you are not following the others and the is a SIN in your gods eye.
Do you really follow all your gods laws, or only the ones you want too?
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Jesus said;
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Hm, when I was studying the bible I could swear that Jesus did not write that letter. I could swear it was Saul.....But you never know what folks are taught these days.
BTW do you follow Saul or Jesus?
As I said before, to follow only those parts that you wish to follow is in itself a SIN.
Tell me why are the Gospels so different than one another?
Why do Christians claim that Revelations was written by John the disciple of Jesus? When in fact the John that wrote Revelations was really a madman that had been exiled to Patmos.
That is but a taste of your so called truth. Your truth has so many holes that it looks like swiss cheese.
Accept people for who they are and not for who you think you are. Everyone is different accept that and you many find who you are.
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LostinNagoya
Most people have some myths about homosexuality that make them afraid of it: 1) the myth of stereotype. Gay men and women are thought of as either effeminates or butchers. Which is far from reality. There are a lot gays who are your neighboor and you don´t know about. They don´t give signals, the same way a hetero person doesn´t need to signal he/she is hetero. You would be surprised of how many man/man or woman/woman beautiful couples there are around. 2) the myth of oversex. People think that same-gender couples are about having sex, while the opposite is the truth. You may think of a gay married man as of a hetero one: discover in puberty, sexual life in late teens pre-twenties and a marriage in early 30s. Which is something good, since marriage means stability.
Being a bisexual I have dated both men and women, never hid it from them. I may say that dating another man is as sweet, peaceful, troubling and passionate as dating a woman. I have been dating this sweet, deep, caring Danish guy for sometime, and if asked to upgrade this date to a serious engagement, I will do so.
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SiouxGirl
I have to side with Michael Moore and say, "No." I don't want to be buying more wedding gifts than I already do. (j/k)
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BanZI29
Joebigs, Yes God wrote in his commandments to love thy neighbor as thy self, I never said I hated gays, nor should anyone hate gay people, I just recognize their relationships as Sinful and anybody who approves that lifestyle is in the same sin. and I follow Jesus as a Christian but it was Paul the Apostle that wrote the book of Corinthians. The passage in 1 Corinthians tells about the people who will not inherit the kingdom of God if they have not repented and been forgiven of their sins. And yes I am a sinner and I will admit to that, we all are in one way or another. No one can follow ALL the laws of God consistently. The laws were written for 2 reasons, to tell us what God wants us to do and to humble us because we are not capable of doing all of them. And I did not just pick and choose parts of the Scripture to suit my need, I did that to make a point. Yes we should all love everyone the same BUT help the ones sinning to turn and live as good as possible in Gods Eyes. Unfortunatly living gay and having a gay sexual relationship is not a good thing in God's eyes. and lastly, marriage is not just a piece of paper given to you by the state so that they can divide your taxes up, what TRUE marriage is an oath not just to the person you are marrying, but before God that you will be with only one person and that person should be female. Genesis 2:22-24 *22-And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23-And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24-Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. * This is why God made us the way we are. Also love for one another can still exist no matter who you are BUT sexual love is reserved for a man and a women.
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Xeno23
Anybody should be allowed to marry whomever or whatever the heck they want. Same gender, mixed gender, transgender, sheep, llamas, silicon love dolls, ficus plants, lint out of the dryer. Why does it freaking matter? If my neighbor wants to marry a rusted out Chevy on his front lawn, how's that any skin off my nose? And if he winds up going to hell for it, so? That's his problem...
The idea that it'll drag society down some goofball path is utter nonsense. Most people plain aren't gonna wind up anything other than normal. We've had 10,000 years of civilization to get collectively weird, that we haven't just means we're not generally predisposed much beyond being regular folks.
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nandakandamanda
60% of me says 'In favor? No, not particularly.'
40% says, 'Why bother?'
And that's just with marriage in general. Do I see even one in ten marriages being successful or ideal? I don't think so...
Then you could say that if a same-sex pair want the blessings of God, (not particularly Christian?) and the back-up of Law (which country's/religion's Law?), they should come up with a new word for it and even invent a new ceremony. The words Marry and Wed are probably too inflexible to allow for the various updates & ramifications, especially when you think of all the other languages they have to be translated into and the baggage that comes with those.
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SiouxGirl
I knew there was a lot of crazy stuff in the bible, Ban, but I never knew it was that outrageous. You can't be a Christian, a follower of Jesus, and say that love should only belong to a select few. The old word was created by men and priests so that their people would procreate and increase their numbers. I do believe someone once said, "Go forth and populate the earth." That is the purpose of declaring that only men and women should have sex. But as our population on this planet continues to grow and this planet continues to groan under our collective weight, being gay will become more and more acceptable. Gay people don't procreate. Usually. I know some people are afraid that in the future everyone will be "pressured to live a gay lifestyle," but that can't happen. You also can't force someone who's gay to become a heterosexual. This is all I'll say on this matter. I'm not going to get into an internet war of words with anyone.
0
goodDonkey
Excellent posts JoeBigs!
Not only intelligent but also very moral and ethical.
0
Badge213
The bible says a lot of things that are inconstant, contradictory and plain makes no freaking sense.
0
OhioDonna
NO.
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Ultrashaman
The eleventh commandment: Keep thy religion to thyself. - George Carlin
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tkoind2
To all those thumping the bible as the rule for everything. Some reality checks for you.
Why don't you people just go find somewhere to practice your arcane faith and stop caring about what people who don't share your views do or don't do. If a gay couple marries it has no more impact on your provential little lives than the chirping of a bird in Paragua or Fiji.
The world has been far too long ruled and influenced by the mystical supersticious crowd who look up at the vast stretches of the universe and fear being alone. Why not look into that vastness and feel special? Not because some arial diety is looking back at you, but because you simply exist. That alone is precious independent of any notions of god. Religion is a plague that kills and alienates. One humanity would be better off without.
One would think that humanity could mature beyond these irrational superstitions to find meaning and purpose in simply being here.
0
Ultrashaman
I'm not bashing religion but I think it muddies this social matter. Arguements based on faith mean the faithful will never change their minds yet never be able to totally prove their beliefs to others.
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tkoind2
I think it is time that the non-religious spent a little more time pushing back against the religious community. For far too long we have been subjected to their demands for social compliance with their moral standards when instead we should be pushing for just secular morality and standards that better represents a legal middle ground. This would better protect the rights of all citizens including minority groups with slightly different morality.
I stand by the assertion that gay marriage impacts noone but the couple and friends of those being married. It does not degrade the value of marriage unless you choose to perceive that it does. In fact it has no impact upon you what so ever as most states now have domestic partnership protections that equal those provided by marriage anyway.
Stop living in biblical days people. Live and let live. Didn't your bible teach you to turn the other cheek? I see most of you ready to slap any cheek you don't agree with.
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jonnyboy
yes, but it's better not to use the word marriage itself. it's FAR too loaded
0
jonnyboy
tkoind2, fantastic post
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OneForAll
Marriage is between a man and a women by definition. End of story. No tkoind2 you are just putting spin onto an abomination. It is very unnatural this stuff most people vomit thinking of. Yes people should be able to do whatever in the privacy of their home. Keep it there.
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tkoind2
OneForAll. First "abomination" is a very relative term. I feel that the behavior of religion throughout history makes it an Abomination. I site the inquisition, protestant and catholic conflicts, crusades, current jihadist and taliban movemens and the balkan wars as a few examples.
Second. Perhaps we should impose your thinking on religion as well. Why don't you practice it in the privacy of your homes and leave the rest of us out of it?!
As for what makes you vomit. Perhaps you should refer to your own scriptures "ye without sin cast the first stone." The treatment of people by religion in many cases makes the rest of us equally sick. Yet you will find that despite my strong rejection of religion, I would still defend and protect your right to practice it. This is a concept we like to call tolerance. It is by definition a societies ability to tolerate the freedom of people to be different, to have different ideas and cultural practices. It is what protects religion from persecution. And it should equally protect the non-religious from persecution by religious factions.
Your rigid definitions are not universally accepted. Like your faith it is your belief and not that of everyone else. You have ZERO RIGHT to impose your belief system on others. If you expect us to tolerate your ancient superstitions then you had better be prepared to tolerate the rights of others to live their lives in freedom. If you do not, then the time may come when you will need the mercy and tolerance of others to preserve your desired approach to living. Let us hope that when that day comes you have more merciful and tolerant people to appeal to.
Perhaps you should learn mercy before you trade places with the people you are so quick to condemn. I think Christ would not approve of your apparent hatred for homosexuals.
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OneForAll
Tjrandom : butt in butt out. Where are you coming from or to? Just read all the posts. Lots of Laughs. It is all hate speech and will be prosecuted. The normal will be silenced unless this movement is put back into the closet. For 1% of the population the society will become deviant and fascist. Upside down kind of like the present reproductive health concept. It is coming and there is not much to be done about it. It is a shame to see my country fall into this error of judgement in good faith at the society level. Individuals are just people trying to find their way but society should not make the deviant normal.
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OneForAll
tkoind2 : What does tkoind say? Sorry. As many have posted above. Deviant is not normal, like murder is not normal. It has been with us all history. Your error of judgement in good faith is not my problem. At the society level it is. We all ready have parents in Mass silenced when they did not want their children being taught about Adam and Steve. It is indoctrination about making deviant behavior normal. A scary thing for normal people who want to raise their children to be normal. 1.1 billion Catholics, 1.1 billion Muslims, 1.1 billion Chinese, 1.1 billion Indians vs the some in the post christian west. Your gains will be short lived.
0
OneForAll
BTW I tested the poll and I was able to click no twice. I clicked yes again to even things out. Got to be careful of polls you know. I wish everyone the best. We all got our issues but let us try to make a world where children at least have a good chance to reach their potential not makes our issues their normal.
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Ultrashaman
All married people do is stay home, except the once-a-year anniversary dinner. Letting gay people get married is sure to end with them staying at home, not to mention growing emotionally distant and obese.
Everyone stays at home most of the time and all but a few weirdos find privacy when making love. Just because people get married doesn't make them exhibitionists.
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tkoind2
JT I have many gay friends and they don't deserve the term deviant from some right wing religious nut.
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illsayit
Either, the understanding of same-sex marriages, and why they would come about, or the understanding of mysticism, and compassion for those who would have the need to understand that?
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tkoind2
illsayit. I went to Catholic school, was raised by protestant parents and have spent many years living in places with strong Eastern faiths. The truth is that most faiths I have encountered have a strong thread of doctrine that advocates mercy, patience, tolerance and understanding. When you look deeply into the texts of many faiths, this thread is very clearly there.
Yet people who practice many faiths overlook these guidelines from the very profits, teachers and dieties they claim to follow. We see this in the intollerance of fundamentalist Islam in conflict with the far more gentle nature of the faith. And we see this in the Christian response in this issue of marriage.
Fear drives human beings far more than faith. Fear of "other" fear of "unknown" and fear of change. Gay marriage represents all these things. And that is why the conservative community look to the rare admonisions in their faith that advocate intollerce instead of the many teachings that guide us to be forgiving and understanding.
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UnagiDon
Amen to that!
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weetzie
why is this up to everyone else if two people of the same sex want to get married? eff the bible. eff your opinions and beliefs. you are not going to be the one married to the other person. who cares? no skin off your hairy backs. let people marry whoever/whatever they want. i'm straight by the way.
0
Coolasapool
tkyoin2
too right brother!
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OneForAll
A Deviant. Someone who deviates from the normal. The emotional hatred coming from deviants to those who wish the best for their children has the leopard showing his spots. Marriage is between a man and a women. Has been and seems quite natural. Hey even children are a product of that love. Quite natural. Natural Law. The Catholic church condemns such deviant behavior. So do the Muslims. Africa does not seem too keen. China wants no part of it. It really makes America look decadent to the rest of the world as well as the part of exporting abortions. I was told this by those not from America. Wake up America. There is a reason you are under storm. Where did the word Sodomy come from? Fear? No, just disgust. Who wants to understand it? Most of the world does not, sir.
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goodDonkey
I know gay friends who make great gay parents. Just because some right wing nut, who has used like 50 different JT screen names, says "gays are deviant and blah, blah, blah, let us try to make a world where children, blah, blah, blah" doesn't make it so. I do think it it a shame that we cannot expose someone who makes a multitude of comments under all these JT names and who probably was able to vote against gay marriage under all those screen names can't be exposed. Especially in a case like this where we know those who are these loudmouth trolls are really just closet queens. Their real war is an internal struggle and that is why they spit out hate and venom. When so many people are making serious comments and have experience with gay friends a troll is able to make the appearance that two separate posters are in agreement when in fact it is the same person commenting on their own previous comment. Most people would find that relevant to a conversation like this but JT mods seem to think it is inappropriate to expose a troll who dominates not only this thread but countless others with multiple screen names. I am very disappointed and I think it detracts from JT's credibility. I can understand JT not wanting to expose the person, who is using multiple screen names to deceive others, themselves. However I cannot for the life of me understand why they would remove so many other comments that would allow us to reveal to other JT readers, that may be new, that one person is acting like many people by using multiple screen names.
There are countless people on this earth who understand the saying "Thou doth protest too much." It would be ever so much more poignant to disclose a person who not only is redundant under one screen name but who is an extreme JT troll by using a multitude of names and being redundant in each of them.
There are many, many people who would except, including quite educated ones, that such a flurry of constant activity on a topic like this in such a deceitful way is probably a sign of internal conflict. I for one am very disappointed that I cannot make that point. This thread would then accurately portray the proportion of those in opposition to and in favor of gay marriage. The current comments currently do not accurately depict the truth because one person is able to post multiple comments using multiple names with out impunity. I ask for the opportunity to impune his comments by stating they are from the same person.
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goodDonkey
Sorry, "impune" should have been "impugn". I humbly ask for forgiveness and hope I will not be considered deviant for such an error.
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teleprompter
This thread, not surprisingly, has evolved into discussions about religion (mainly Christianity), and to a lesser extent, about considerations of biology.
I'm struck by the demands and perhaps unconscious or unrecognized expectations that the still largely Christian countries of the world - America foremost - be the first to recognize and legalize 'same-sex marriage' (sorry, but it is an oxymoron in my book).
This seems to me an implicit admission on the part of the largely 'progressive' crowd here making the argument for acceptance of same-sex marriage that the Judeo-Christian worldview, for all its faults, has basically created the world's most tolerant societies.
How else to explain why we don't see people demanding that India - world's most populous democracy - legalize same-sex marriage?
'Gay marriage' in a Mohammedan country? I doubt any of the same folks who come here with 'Every religion has its extremists, mmmkay?' would venture the notion that organized Islam has its proponents of same-sex marriage.
China, world's most populous nation, went through a completely atheist transformation - and in modern times. Yet same-sex marriage advocates don't seem to pin their hopes on the mandarins and thugs who brought to China the single most efficient ideology for destroying, among other things, the traditional family:Marxism.
What's really odd is how in present world politics it appears that the international Left is most excited about developments in S America. But again, I don't see Chavez or Ortega and certainly never Castro, rushing to embrace same-sex marriage or even the kinds of rights gay men and women enjoy in the capitalist, Anglo-Saxon nations these caudillos like to rage against.
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OneForAll
goodDonkey: People with traditional morals need education. Right? If not them, their children. Right? Enforced by law. Right? This gay marriage issue is a Trojan horse where the good man loses his rights to follow in the ways of his ancestors and to raise his own children. This is the fear. The threats and violent emails from the gay side of the peaceful ballet in California shows a real dark side to your movement. Someone wrote Nazis above. This is what we fear.
Listen. Peace be to you and yours. As close people of any arrangement, platonic or whatever, you should be able to easily be close and inherit property etc. We do not need to know the details. I know brother and sisters living together. I hope there are no issues on inheritance etc. Two women sharing costs and life. Or men. The details I do not need to know. It is not marriage which was made for children but a shared life. More power to them.
0
Sarge
No.
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PaulieWalnuts
yes, definately. because it is the right thing to do
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AlffromWapping
This is an abomination. They will all be struck down by god if they're not carefull. Marriage is for men and women only, men are not born that way the permissive society and lilly livered liberals turn them into gays, transvestites and all that.
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goodDonkey
It is time to demand that conservatives stay out of others bedrooms and stay out of their personal affairs. It would be well noted that conservatives were supporting sodomy laws just about a decade ago and prior to that supported sex laws that specifically outlawed gay sex. America has thrown you out of its citizens bedrooms already but we are not finished with the change. Score 1 for you guys in California; savor it because this gay marriage issue is one you will lose over time. Enlightened people don't buy your deviant argument and they are not buying your "disintegration of morals" argument nor are they buying your argument that a gay marriage in any way affects straight marriages.
telecasterplayer had the best answer out of any answer posted. It ultimately describes the truth of the matter.
I would be very interested to hear others opinion on whether they think those claiming gay marriage will hurt their own marriage are ignorant or whether they think they are just being dishonest.
Moderator: Forget about Hamlet, please.
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Ultrashaman
-Used the word "abomination". -Thinking God will strike people down (If gay people have lasted this long, I doubt their in any real danger from lightning bolts.). -Misunderstanding liberals. -Thinking you can be turned gay. -Not understanding most transvestites like women.
Your comment has five problems.
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JoeBigs
Yeah, um real interesting post, so how is your god going to strike down all the gay people? BTW is your god only going after the American Christian gays or is he going after everyone?
By everyone I mean Buddhist, Jews, Hindu, Islamic, Atheist and so on? Just want to make sure that we understand who your god is going after.
BTW before I forget will he by smiting the closet gay baptist priest also. Or will he just send them to re-education camp?
Hm, interesting the way you placed transvestites last.....Very interesting indeed.....
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nandakandamanda
Two young men eloped to the station,
"Oh this is such a frustration!
We reached for the stars
With this marriage of ours;
Now who cries abomination?"
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aelieth
Man, this brings out lots of crazy people everywhere.
Yeah, say yes, get it over with, and move forward. Creatures have been having same sex... sex for a long time. Watch a dog get horny, it'll go for it. I've even seen two female dogs trying to do something.
Marriage? By most people's standards here it's probably based on the Christian belief. Eh, union between two people. You know this started so a man could say "This is my wife, back off." and the woman could say "He's my man and he better not cheat on me." Hahahah!
Seriously though, I don't care. Marriage ends up in divorce most the time anyway it seems and it's up to the individual who they're gonna go screw. I love my women and plan on having kids though, so... that's my choice.
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helloklitty
George Bush: Gays should be allowed to get married - but not to each other.
I believe that gays should be allowed to get married, but we'll need to rewrite some tax laws that were designed for families that DINKS will take advantage of.
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PaulieWalnuts
what time limit do you suggest for all married couples to produce children before their marriage licence is revoked? 5 years? 10?
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Wendyqueefalot
I would have to say i disagree. Its socially wrong to have same sex marriage. What are you going to say to your kid/s when you see two grown men kissing holding hands mincing down the street? What if they too have a child in hand? Then there is the problem of who is the mother, who plays the mother role etc. You must admit, it looks wrong. It is wrong!!
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nandakandamanda
Who plays mother? No problem at all, if they are both women...
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SiouxGirl
That's easy. You say, "They love each other, so they're kissing!" Lots of people love each other. It's what makes the world go around. Actually, I don't think as much ppl love each other as once did. Ppl are becoming cold and distant. I think we should encourage what little flames we still have. When love goes away, what will the world become? Full of hatred and murder. If that is true, I'd rather be struck by lightning and be done with it. Actually, if god was going to go around smoting ppl, I wouldn't be typing this right now. Gotta go, Iron Chef is on.
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Ultrashaman
The same thing they do now because most kids already know about gay folks (and unfortunately bully the kids who act different). Also, is the word "mincing" appropriate or accurate to how gay people really walk?
0
aikisako
yes, as long as they keep away from me lol
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JoeBigs
Right now what a lot of married women say is, "Divorce!" LOL How may Haggards are out there? Or should I say,"hiding there?".......
How quickly folks fall for the Sodom and Gomorrah religious b.s....How funny folks are when it comes to their tainted beliefs....
But who am I to judge your hate, bravo zulu keep up the good work...LOL
0
LoveUSA
No, because homosexuals are confused people and are totally capable of heterosexual relationship.
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JoeBigs
Here is one of the confused.....Ted Haggard! LOL What a good married Far right winger.....!
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PaulieWalnuts
>
unacceptable hate speech
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HonestDictator
The most bizzarre thing is that people would probably be a lot more accepting for two women to marry each other than two men... crazy but more than likely true.
0
AlffromWapping
Same sex marriage is against nature. A man is supposed to be with a women, it's a well known fact.
0
zurcronium
Gay marriages last much longer on average than straight marriages. Half of all straight marriages end up in divorce in the USA, a 50% failure rate. Is that what the religious right wants to protect? Bible thumpers divorce at the highest rate of all groups. So if its the institution of marriage they want to protect they should not get married themselves.
Who cares how other people live their lives. The wingers generally only care about themselves, except in this case. It makes no difference how others live as long as they don't harm others or try to lecture others on their chosen way (as the wingers on this post have clearly attempted to do). Half the republican leaders are gay now it seems, live and let live I say. If the gay republicans want to get married, let them. The phony conservative protests last week was all about teabagging apparently, how gay is that? Really, all of them should just get a room.
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AlffromWapping
Woman was made by god for men to marry. Two men should not be allowed to marry, in fact homosexuality should be made illegal like the old days.
Same sex marriages ae a farce, it is a lifestyle choice not a natutal way to live.
0
memyselfI
Hey, if gay people want to marry let it be. If they want a high divorce rate let them be. Gay divorce is funny hehehehehe !!!!!
0
zurcronium
Alf,
God made gay people too. All societies have gay people, about 5% are gay. Animals are gay too. Only the conservative christians and other loons deny reality.
Gay people are gay because God made them that way. Marriage in the US is a civil ceremony, not religious. Its a simple matter to understand and accept.
You may like not gay people, but that does not mean they dont have the same rights you do. I dont like close minded bible thumpers but I dont say you cant get married and divorced (usually several times as surveys clearly show).
0
zurcronium
And one other point, gay people do not choose to be gay. they just are as that is what god made them. No way any sane person would choose to be gay in the USA with so many bible thumpers living in the country. Its like a person does not choose to be an idiot, they just are.
But people do choose to be uptight christian zealots.
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Ultrashaman
Punished by stoning? That's a perfectly logical and humane way to dealing with people being different. /sarcasm
I thought marriage was a choice.
0
memyselfI
** ** If Gay People want to divorce and go through divorce court let them. ** **
If they want to litigate their prized possessions hey why not, let them get married and divorced.
Look at all the money you can make. Maybe this is what the economy needs. Gay wedding, gay wedding planning, gay honeymoons and gay divorce. hahahaha !!!! I wish I was a divorce lawyer. I could make so much money.
0
SiouxGirl
All this hatred is very un-Christian-like. Am I the only one who sees this? I thought Jesus was the Prince of Peace. He changed the world with his love. Or is believing that and living by it inconvenient for you?
0
memyselfI
To Siouxirl6 Jesus loves everybody. Even Jesus had gay friends. Have you ever seen Jesus Christ super Star. You should rent that video. Anyways Jesus loves everybody. I just made funny guy joke. If gay people want marriage then divorce is fine too. As long as they are happy right ? If you read the bible it states he loves all his children. even the ones who are doink-ing each other and everybody is a sinner. Let them be cleansedby their forgivness of their sins. If you really love god you should love all it's people.
0
RandomTask
Nothing wrong with letting gay people marry, it just makes it official. God has nothing to do with this debate, being a fictional character.
I think its better for a gay man to marry a man and be happy than marry a woman and both be unhappy.
0
butterfly1
I believe marriage is a commitment between two people in a loving relationship. Simple.
0
AlffromWapping
To all them who says gays can't help it. I saw on the telly an expert from the church say that homosexuality is a vice some enjoy and they could choose the correct way and be with a woman if they wanted.
Because of this same sex marriages have no place is a decent country and should be banned worldwide. We shouldn't encourage these practices so youngsters may be influenced to think gays are normal.
Make homosexuality illegal, not encourage it with weddings and a lot of the worlds problems will be solved in one swift swoop!
0
LostinNagoya
Alffom:
And do you believe in Snow White as well?
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AlffromWapping
lostinNagoya: A man of the cloth would not lie about such a serious subject would he!
How come there are so many gay nowadays, and they all want to marry and that? Answer is the permissive society made their behaviour acceptable and legalised it.
If it were like the old days, you wouldn't have gays demanding rights to marry and what not.
Let's bring back decncy and morals, the first would be to ban gay marriage and anyone who promotes homosexual lifestyles.
0
teleprompter
Lefties are funny on this one. They insist that a certain percentage of the population is born gay and are therefore "entitled" to marry. If you object you are "a hater"; and even if your objections are based on arguments made by philosophers or theorists (Hayek, for exmple), you were nonetheless simply and unfortunately brainwashed at one point in your life by your religion - Christianity being the only religion they feel safe in impugning in this case.
But if talk turns to education and you point out that there are countless studies which point to quantifiable differences in IQ among the world's races and they appear to be inborn well then you are again 'a hater.'
0
LostinNagoya
Alffrom:
Ok, Alffrom, do you mean one of those men of the cloth that every now and then are in the spotlight for sexual abuse, against minors, inside their own church? Or one of those who preaches against homosexuality for years and then is caught jer**ng off one of his friends? Give me a break. It´s ok to be against same-sex marriages, but come to discuss it with solid knowledge, or a solid opinion. Not a weak one based on ¨I saw on TV...¨
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AlffromWapping
LostinNagoya: I also gave you the facts about how there were no gays when i was a lad, so i do have a proper opinion like. If people accept deviant behaviour it will flourish and destroy society. That is what is happening now with this gay marriage and gay pride lark.
Men used to be real men who wouldn't dream of demanding gay marriage. If they acted like that they would be locked up, like Oscar Wilde, and too bloody right too. Let's protect the kids from all this NOW!
0
Altria
Shouldn't you be quoting biochemists rather than philosophers?
Why should you care? Would legalization of same-sex marriage tempt you to go gay?
0
LostinNagoya
Sorry Alffrom, it can´t be done NOW. Because I have a happy-hour at 18:00 with some friends from Australia and a handsome Danish man I am sort of dating since my last girlfriend. lol.
0
AlffromWapping
Marriage between same sexes is not accepted by bthe majority because it is morally wrong. It is a choice, not a trait, mark my words.
How comes when gays wasn't in fashion, you never saw them on the streets and all over our television screens?
0
spudman
AlffronWrapping: you never saw them cause they would be attacked, fired and scourned by bigots. Less bigots these days but they are still around. The religious ones are the most hypocritical. I would mark your words but they have been proven by numerous studies to be erroneous.
0
likeitis
Morally wrong? Is that double talk for "It gives me the creeps and cracking down on it won't hurt me one bit?"
I don't think the majority gave a second thought to morality except on how to twist it into an excuse for being unfair.
0
MildredRoper
Lovely posts Alf. I totally agree with you. I remember when men were "real" men. If a kid was growing up the wrong way the parents would beat ot out of them, now you can't touch kids bah.
Same sex marriage is a needless thing, obviously just to make profit for someone or other. Good lord, why can't people just be normal and be with teh opposite sex? That's why men and women are different, to be together to marry and make children.
Same sex marriages cannot make children, which proves they are wrong.
0
spudman
neither can women after menopause so be that logic no old people should get married.
0
MildredRoper
TJrandom, What silly things to say. Those of us old enough to remeber can hark back to those better days when gays were not around. Men and women married not same sex, there would have been riots i tell you.
Whatever anyone here says, i and good people of my generation know gay marriage is wrong and so are their bedroom antics.
0
likeitis
I guess marriages where one partner is sterile are wrong too. I guess we could also throw in couples who don't make kids because they don't want to, and throw them in even if they adopt instead.
I can agree that the primary logic behind marriage is to raise kids, but making it a requirement for a "correct" marriage is EXTREMELY small-minded.
0
likeitis
I will agree that there are dangers. But your apocolyptic assessment is WAY overboard. There was a time when people were shocked by Playboy magazine. They too cringed about how it was immoral and deviant and how it would destroy society. It is possible to allow all sorts of behaviors without society collapsing. The key is control. I wish people like yourself would be reasonable and preach control instead of telling us society will come to an end.
0
teleprompter
Why? My objections are to the sentimental Lefty logic that gay people are "entitled" to get married.
LOL. I always like that one. It poisons the debate and insults in a backhanded way the very group whose rights you pretend to champion but are obviously doing so purely for politically expedient reasons.
0
likeitis
Not it does not, not either allegation. Its just a simple question. The only place it has a negative context is your head. In other words, any possible snipe in there is either directed at you or totally unintentional, but still hitting you.
Now answer the question: Do you really think that you or anyone else is going to go gay just because it becomes acceptable? Or, if that question is too charged for you, how about this one: Do you think that you would become strongly attracted to severely obese women if it became a popular fad? How about flat-chested ones? Hairy ones? Ugly ones?
0
RegVarney
When i was a bus driver we had a fellow who batted for the other team as a conductor. Kept himself to himself, no nonsense about gay marriage or anything.
If people have these inclinations, they should keep them behind closed doors in private. The rest of us don'T want our wives and kids to see your behaviour. Marriage should definatly never be allowed. Gays should only be allowed physical contact in private where the vulnerable cannot be offended.
Don't ban it, but keep iot private. The rest of us would rather not know about it.
0
likeitis
Its ok. Once people like yourself get used to it, I am sure you can find another group to look down on and start making wild excuses for doing so. Some of those excuses might even stick despite all reason. Then you will declare them moral.
But at least somebody here has finally admitted that one of the core problems is simply their own personal discomfort.
Now I will introduce the concept that there are some people in the world who simply need a group of people to consider lower than themselves so that they can hold their own heads up all day. Those people tend to be conservatives, and any wild excuse will do so long as their little weakness of needing to look down on someone else is not discovered. Witches, gays, burakumin, untouchables, communists, jews, blacks, Chinese, hippies, immigrants, they have all had their time. Who is next? Some people seem to be bucking for Muslims.
0
teleprompter
Likeitis, you are Canadian. What is your country's stance on same sex marriage?
0
likeitis
You tell me. No one here has posted more facts about Canada recently than yourself. And I am wondering, why does a Ruskie like you know so much about Canada???
0
RegVarney
I don't understand the widespread support for gingers on this thread.
Us normal people don't flaunt ourseleves in public like gays. They can't be married they aren't different sexes, it's as simple as that.
Stone the crows they'll be wanting the same tax rights as married people next. When will the insanity ednd?
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Ultrashaman
Why is it that once this poll went off the main page, the most angry comments suddenly appeared?
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likeitis
Might be because you have taken the wrong tack. I for one am not supporting them. I am supporting their rights. Said it before, its the principles, not the people. Since you focus on the people, let me guess where you lie on the political spectrum.
Might be because normal people are not under attack? But this is another fallacy. Not all gays flaunt themselves, and not all "normal" people don't. Plenty of heteros flaunt their sexuality.
Why not?
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likeitis
Because conservatives don't argue to find the truth or discover what is fair. They don't really care about the truth or fairness. They seek influence and power. Once a topic leaves the main page, they know it will not be read as much, because they themselves cannot be bothered to sustain the debate. They too busy trying to get their way while walking on others.
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Ultrashaman
Okey dokey, that answer works for me.
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aikisako
what if you're gay and don't want to get married? what if you're straight and don't want to get married? It's about marriage. It's like those sitcoms, where singles in general are made to feel uneasy about themselves, like they have a sickness or something, because their married friends and society can't 'figure them out', like only when you marry you will be of social importance to them.
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Bento
a marriage is a lifelong exclusive relationship between a man and a woman, everything else requires a different name.
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