JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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Do you support same-sex marriages?
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Do you enjoy watching movies in 3D?
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Do you support torture as an interrogation method if the objective is to prevent a terrorist attack or capture criminals?
( 73 )
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Would you like to see all U.S. military forces removed from Okinawa?
( 95 )
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Should Japan be pledging funds to the IMF, Mekong and for other causes overseas?
( 11 )
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1
Hosono visits Fukushima No. 4 reactor amid concern over fuel pool
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Lady Gaga's Indonesia concert canceled after threats
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Oceanographer says beachcombers on West Coast may find bones in tsunami debris
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New Jersey town's monument to Korean sex slaves upsetting Japanese officials
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241 civil servants file suit over salary cuts
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161 Comments
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0
timesup
They can only if the western world is submissive to the intolerant faith of Muslims. This is something I don't think is particularly effective nor is it in the best interest for western nations but in these politically correct times that is the sad reality. Honor killings, sharia law, and polygamy are just a couple examples of things that are incompatible with western nations.
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jonnyboy
there is no reason to fear islam in the long run; they hate each other at least as much as they hate us
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mousepotato464
The relations will probably improve while President Obama is in office but the Republicans will eventually get control of the U.S.A. again and at that time the relationship will get worse. Just my 2 yens worth
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mechadamuramu
@jonnyboy: Usually external evil helps similar cultures unite, so Islam won't fight many wars "within" itself if there is a war to fight "outside"
@mousepotato: Democrat in office = pretty good Islamic relations. Obama in office = best possible relations. Republican in office = hostile relations and possibly more wars with islamic countries
If you haven't seen Bill Maher's new movie Religulous then everyone should at least rent it. Its funny in parts, but he asks some really pointed and cynical questions to leaders of all 3 abrahamic religions and by far the Islamic leaders were the most intolerant. Could be movie bias sure, but the types of views they had are almost categorically not held by Christians and Jews.
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HonestDictator
Its really easy to say yes. But as with all religions, Islam needs to be revolutionized and become adaptable to the ever changing conditions of the world. Christianity, Judaism, Bhuddism, Hindu, and many others have had their moments, but they've adapted to what is right and more peaceful means of practicing their faith without vehemently abusing and destroying others. The world is not going to change because of one persons religious beliefs. Islam needs to be more understanding and acceptable of this fact.
In many ways the religious practices of koran are too restrictive and outdated. I've just read an article about some poor muslim woman who is blind was not able to get a seeing eye dog because of the beliefs that dogs are unclean. More moderate and thoughtful followers of Islam understand that changes need to be made. But then you have the hard iron fist that says any change to the "laws" of the koran are considered heresy and blasphemous etc.
The west can adapt easily because we're not burdened with 'religous laws as a mainstream of everyday life. Islam needs to learn and implement that strong seperation between church and state as well.
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supercub
I'm not sure what "Islam" refers to in this question. Like any religion/culture/region, the Islamic world is a vastly complicated and varying creature (as is the "Western world"). Are we talking about radical Islam, which is a political movement as much as a religious movement (answer would probably be 'no')? Are we talking about the professional class of any number of moderate Muslim countries (answer would be 'yes')? I can say with certainty that ridiculously simplistic thinking, as exhibited by the premise of this poll, will make mutual understanding and productive cross-cultural relations less likely.
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JoeBigs
In all religions you have your far right conservatives that believe the other side's religion is of the devil. These groups have a cloudy belief of the other religion. Their members would rather burn their eyes out than sit down and speak with anyone from the other.
Their belief has been taught to them by their parents or their church/mosque/temple and so on. They become ignorant of the other faith and come to or are taught that the other religion is a religion from the devil. Then they grow to hate the other religion as time goes on.
The people who teach these folks that the other religion are evil are either uneducated bigots or power mongers who want their daily fix of control. Either by preaching or sending out kids to blow them selves up.
Hate breeds hate an ugly cycle turns at the pit of any evil. In my book there is no place in our world for religious leaders that teach stupidity. It should be a crime to do so punishable by being launched into space. But that is just me....
The only way to end this hate is to educate the people of the other religions. Or just do away with religion as a whole.
But then you have you more moderate groups that are willing to coexist. These groups are called names by the fanatics on either side. Reporting about groups that promote peace and harmony do not sell news papers. Promoting hate sell news papers
I hope that one day soon far right religions and their leaders will get an enema. One can only hope that these fanatics are removed from the world one day.
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888naff
Can Christianity, Yews, and the Western world coexist peacefully?
... having recently seen a bbc documentary online of a church of englang vicar travelling the world to learn about 80 different faiths, it was evident that the world could learn alot from east asia and certain countries abilities to have multiple religions that compliment each other... ie you can worship more than one religion, its not your either one of them or one them or your either with us or without us mentality..etc.
0
Honen
Depends on what flavor of Islam runs the show, so to speak.
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smithinjapan
Religions have been surviving each other for centuries, and then some. There have been many religious wars in the process, but that's less based on the religions than it is the idiocy of the people who subscribe to and are willing to fob off their own actions as the fault of religion. Likewise, in this day and age, the attitude that 'Islam cannot exist peacefully with the rest of the world' is simply exclusion, hatred, intolerance, and often based on fear. THAT is what needs to be eliminated. Only then will the religions be able to be at peace, or at least get along with each other. Also, as with the US general the other day, people need to be more open about ALL belief systems held by others. It does not mean more accepting -- that's up to the person in so long as they aren't hating that which they do not subscribe to -- it simply means making your choices on a more open and thought out scale. That goes for anything in this world.
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sabiwabi
They can and should coexist peacefully. Today's problems are not due to Muslims. Most problems are due to a different group who has put much effort to having the West fight against Islam.
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realist
I dont think it is possible to co-exist with fanatical Muslims, who are hell-bent on destroying the "infidels" as they refer to western, mostly Christian, nations. Their hatred knows no bounds. They want to see their Shariah laws established in all countries, and they basically want Islam to rule the world. Its stated clearly in the Qu`ran, their Holy Book. In those countries where Islam is on the rise, problems also are on the rise - its a fact - you only have to look a the statistics.
There are many nice Muslim people - I count them among my dearest friends, but those of the fanatical viewpoint, with their extreme intolerance and hatred for the West and for western peoples, does a disservice to the nice Muslims and their faith. It is impossible to live at peace with such people, and too much ground has been lost in some countries where political correctness has gone overboard, allowing these people more freedom than they deserve.
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Muchakucha
Name another religion that clearly advocates wife-beating and the death penalty for apostacy.
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Wakarimasen
No
0
Beelzebub
It's pretty simple, really: if we all agree to try hard to get along, we will -- but it definitely requires a conscious effort.
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Ah_so
I will name you 2: Judaism and Christianity. Deuteronomy 13:
"If thy brother...entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods...thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God"
Of course the 2 religions can live in peace - they have in the past and will again. However, the current state of affairs makes it unlikely for the foreseeable future.
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WilliB
Misleading question. Islam has the same problem with any other culture, not only the Judeo-Christian-Materialistic western one. See how it coexists "peacefully" with Buddhism in Southern Thailand, with Confucianism in Eastern China, with Hinduism in India. Or with Buddhism in Afghanistan for that matter... remember what Afghanistan was before the islamic conquest. In fact, Christians and Jews are the priviliged people in the islamic world view, as they have the option to live as Dhimmis under islamic rule.
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WilliB
Ah so: Please spare us the old Deuteronomy strawman.
The Old Testament PRECEDES Christianity, it is ridiculous to always roll that out for cheap polemical shots. Christianity was fundamentally a Jewish reform movement, and you find nothing like that in the New Testament or the Life of the founder.
Contrast that with a political religion founded by a warlord/ruler, who conquered, distributed loot, kept a haram and slaves, and died as powerful ruler.
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mistersmarmy
agree with wakarimasen, NO.
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mistersmarmy
we need a completely new plan on what to do with muslim people. they cannot in general (with some exceptions as always) coexist with 'others' so they need some designated places that they are assigned to. this would help them to be more 'happy' as they would all be together and sharing their culture. anyway, who knows what the best course for nations etc will be in the near future. having said that the US hasn't exactly hepled matters in Iraq etc.....
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WilliB
mistersmarmy:
Muslim "people" have nothing to do with it. People are just people everywhere. Their belief system is the problem, not the "people". 50 years ago, the world did not have a problem with Nazi "people", it did have a problem with the Nazi ideology.
Imagine WW2 being fought on the basis of having a problem with Blitzkrieg, but no problem at all with the Ideology of peace, founded by a man who must not be criticized, and who wrote a book that is sacred. And "not different" from any other ideology.
That is ridiculous situation we have put us in with our ignorance and political correctness.
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Nessie
Sure. As soon as the Western world legalizes spousal rape and instates capital punishment for apostasy.
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Nessie
The comparison is helped by the fact that Jesus probably wasn't a real person.
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888naff
ah the count has swung during the day ... maybe a certain country has woken up and logged on
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JoeBigs
Yeah that Jesus dude was reading the New Testaments rather than the Talmud. LOL
Hell I think you are right on the money, I say christians should listen to you and not use any of the old testy verses and parts. Toss out
Please add anymore of those that you wish to add and shred.LOL
LOL, I just love the far right wingers.
Now who says it is the Muslims who can not get along with the other groups? LOL
0
nausicaa
In order for this to happen the West needs to stop raping the environment and plundering third world countries so it's citizens can buy more Nikes.
On the other hand, Islamic extremists need to stop kicking the crap out of it's own people and not emulate the US in resorting to terrorism to get it's message across.
It's an impasse at the moment. Someone has to give first. If no one can start this healing process, then everything will just escalate.
All I can do is try to consume less, and be more respectful toward the environment and those who's religious viewpoints are different than my own.
0
imacat
I think Saudi Arabia's attitude towards Christianity is absolutely shocking in its intolerance.
As I understand it, Christianity is effectively banned in Saudi Arabia. What's that all about?!
But on the other hand Saudi Arabia feels it is quite entitled to fund the building of mosques and other religious centers in Western countries.
Saudi Arabia needs to change its intolerant attitudes.
0
ca1ic0cat
I have plenty of friends and co-workers who are Muslims. One even has a bumper sticker that says "Allah is your protector." His daughter is in the same grade as my son. We've never had an issue with any of them, just mutual embarrasment cause by the violent ideologues who insist on killing anything and everything just because they can.
bin Laden and his ilk represent such a small minority of Muslims that they would be laughable if they didn't have weapons. They are supported by Arab dictatorships who use a religious war to gloss over the lack of prosperity in their own pathetic countries. This is why none of them want to see democracy succees in Iraq or Afganistan.
Those are the loosers we have to fight. If they didn't have oil we would kick their butts. One more good reason to support alternate energy.
0
grafton
Religions started as a mechanism for control of ignorant people & to a large degree that is exactly what they still are. The answer to any religion is education, granted the weak minded will always need some mythology to hold on to no matter how well educated they may be. Anything that acts to divide one section of mankind from another section of mankind will inevitably bring about conflict. My myths are better than your myths. Truth is all these myths are man made & with age somehow manage to become sacrosanct, though why something should somehow become a “truth” because it is very, very, very old is quite beyond me. Really if you stand back from any of this nonsense you find that there is nothing there, words from old men that lived so long ago we cannot even today be sure that they did live. And you might add to that that very little of what is written was written when the so called religious leaders were alive, even in Mohammad’s case the writing wasn’t done until at least 100 years after he died & longer than that in Christ case. These are the writing that religion is based on & on which people believe they have a just cause to kill.
Any one of you reading this are intelligent enough to invent your own religion today, some on this site we know are lunatic enough to come up with some really horrible ideas, but would they be any more horrible than some of the “accepted” religions of the world today? Over the years we will all have met or known of people that hear voices & we all know that there are organic chemicals that produce “visions”, so creating a religious experience is not that difficult. But knowing all this so many still go on protecting the nonsense that hides behind the calling itself a religion. Why? We know that all religion has its roots in a history of ignorance yet defend peoples right to believe what in any other circumstance would be seen & called madness.
Islam does not teach “death to the infidel” it teaches respect for the “people of the book”, so something very important got lost here. But even if your religion says that you shouldn’t kill & the other mans religion says to kill you, I am sure you will kill to defend yourself, so religion will always get people killed. The problem is not what you believe, it is the fact that you do believe.
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Good_Jorb
grafton- I think your agrument is close to correct, expect replace religion with any sort of belief, such as; Nazism, Maoism, Tribalism, Supremacism, and so on. There is huge list of non-myth based belief systems that have caused equally as brutely death and destructruction.
In particular the follow sentence should really read;
Any difference between one type of person and another type of person will always result in violence/getting people killed. It's human nature.
0
grafton
Good_Jorb at 04:08 AM JST - 14th April
I agree totally, I was just keeping to religion here, but in truth I really don’t make that much of a distinction between religion & politics, to me they are equal aberrations, & I suppose that goes for any belief system that blinds man to the reality of life.
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Yuki_51
They can coexist peacefully, and probably will, eventually. But we should expect it to take centuries. After all, it took centuries for Christianity to calm down and become largely secular, a process that isn't even yet completely finished. And the Christians had to go through their own internecine wars, which were almost unspeakably violent. I expect nothing less will occur between competing Muslim strains.
Capital punishment for apostasy, however, to mention one big thing, is an affront to human dignity. Islam needs to revisit planet Earth in this area. The name of the religion is supposed to mean "submission". When you kill people who say that want to live, you are not allowing for "submission", you are committing oppression.
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Yuki_51
"say they want to live" should have been "say they want to leave".
Sorry.
0
Muchakucha
Ah so: since you have religious texts at your fingertips you'll probably be aware that the violence of the Old Testament was rejected 2000 years ago by a religious figure with the initials JC. The main reason that Islam can't coexist peacefully with the West, or any civilized society, is that the message of violence it began to teach 1400 years ago has never changed. It's a real now as it ever was. Another factor is that Islam is a complete ideology, not a religion. Islam is the law. Allah is the lawmaker. Democracy cannot funtion in that scenario. And it's not just the West- even model Islamic 'democracies' like Pakistan are failing, for the simple reason that Islam and democracy don't mix.
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mareo2
I dont see why people think that all the muslims cant get well with the west. Is not like the Kuwaities hate americans, in fact there a a lot of muslims that are americans and very proud of that. Also I dont see why involve all the west, there is a bunch of western countries that are not targeted/blamed by muslims. In my opinion, these is mostly USA and some muslims hate relationship. Say that there si a Muslims and West conflict is a generalization so naive like thinking that the world is black and white.
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Muchakucha
mareo2: the question isn't whether Muslims can coexist with the west, it's can Islam can coexist with the west.
0
Muchakucha
As (most) societies have become enlightened (democracy, religious freedom, gender equality, gay rights etc etc) they've been able to coexist with the major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism etc) because nothing in those religions' teachings is an insurmountable obstacle to progess. And even if some unenlightened attitudes persist, such as some religions' reluctance to fully accept gay rights, at least homosexuals aren't actually persecuted in the name of those religions. Contrast that to Islam, where homosexuals are not only denied equal rights, they can be executed - and often are in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia where Islam has achieved its goal of being the only jurisprudence.
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jinjapan
nice to see these poll results & that everyone is in total agreement.
0
Muchakucha
There have been violent Christians inspite of the teachings of Jesus whereas Islamic doctrine and its prophet itself advocates violence. Why is that so difficult to understand?
It's because the call to violence is there in the Koran, in black and white, and cannot be changed (at least, that's what Islamic scholars say) that Islam is incompatible with civilised society.
0
mareo2
Muchakucha at 11:20 AM JST - 14th April
To my understanding, Islam is a religion and muslims are the believers of the Islam religion. Can you explain to me what is the diference that make the question valid in your opinion? Because I really dont get your answer.
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Muchakucha
mareo2:
Certainly. Just because one is born a Muslim it doesn't necessarily mean one actually agrees with Islamic doctrine 100%. Islamic doctrine calls for death for people who turn away from Islam, but I seriously doubt if the majority of Muslims who've been brought up in western countries sincerely believe that this is morally right. However, because Islamic doctrine is so inflexible and strict, it's almost impossible for Muslims to criticise it without putting their own lives in danger. Free-thinking Muslims are actually victims of Islam.
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mareo2
Muchakucha at 01:55 PM JST - 14th April
Correct me if I am wrong, but if I remember right, the catholics in the past, killed large amounts of "infidels" and burned some of their own people for questioned their religion, cardenals and popes holded a lot of say in the control of several countries and even declared "Holy Wars". It took a lot of time and patience, but in the end the West finally separeted the Church from the gob and developed a secular societies. If we truly beliebe that the Islam World and the Western world cant' coexist peacefully... One, it close the door to the idea of evolution and progress. Two, it imply that the only logic answer is conversion or genocide. Let's see more examples from real world, Turkey is member of the NATO and an USA ally. Another example, Pakistan is another ally of the USA. I wonder how the allies of the USA can feel if americans say that is not possible paceful coexistence with their religion, can their feel offended? I mean, Islam is the main religion of their people but they not only coexist but also cooperate with the USA, right? Or I am missing something?
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yokkaichi1
The question itself is typical of the kind of thinking that separates people. These dualistic ideas of us and them serve no one. We are all one. We already coexist peacefully.
0
Muchakucha
mareo2: you're quite correct in that Christians have murdered for religious reasons. But I say again, this is inspite of Jesus' teachings. Muslim extremists commit violence because of Mohammed's teachings. It's difficult to apply the Koran to the modern world because it contains so many ideas which are at odds with modern civilisation. The same is not true of other religions.
The Taleban are doing this very successfully. And the Saudi regime is utterly mediaeval.
No. The answer is for Islamic authorities to declare that Islam's more barbaric teachings are to be consigned to history. Muslims should have the chance to leave Islam, and Islamic clerics should accept the secular law of the countries they live in rather than trying to implement barbaric sharia law. Other religions seem to be able to modernise, integrate and coexist peacefully with democracy, and it's time for Islam to do the same. Unfortunately, Islam is going the other way.
This is because it's still officially secular.
Pakistan is a failed state which is about to be completely overrun by the Taleban and thereby become the first Islamic Fundamentalist nuclear state.
0
mareo2
Muchakucha at 04:26 PM JST - 14th April
I wonder how many muslim-american share these opinion that Islam is so difficult to follow without become an extremist.
I recognize that I dont understand what you mean here. In one hand denay that denay peaceful coexistence imply a war of conversion or genocide, but in the other hand say that the right answer is evolution but say that the evolution is imposible. A double contradiction, then can you please explain to me what is the logic answer in your opinion?
These comments sound like USA muslim allies cant be really trusted. It almost imply that USA suporting with money, weapons and even transfer nuclear technology to represive regimes, dont bring democracy progress and happy people, in fact it can backfire like in the case of Iran.
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smithinjapan
muchakucha: "However, because Islamic doctrine is so inflexible and strict, it's almost impossible for Muslims to criticise it without putting their own lives in danger. Free-thinking Muslims are actually victims of Islam."
WRONG! There's a reason people oft say 'RADICAL Islam', and that's because there is actually a HUGE amount of flexibility and sects among the religion. Probably more than Christianity (don't quote me on that). Some even allow homosexuality, etc.
0
jonnyboy
the bible instructs a good christian to stone a man to death for picking up sticks on the sabbath. the difference is that the bible is more open to interpretation than the koran, which is consider the true, perfect and unquestionable word of god
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Muchakucha
No, it doesn't. Please understand the difference between the Old and New Testaments. Even an athiest like me knows that Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, who poured scorn that kind of babaroc Old Testament stuff, and as a consequence got himself executed. Not unlike people who openly disagree with Islamic doctrine today.
You're correct here though.
0
roughneck
No, they can not. Read the translation of quran(Surah Al-Maidah : Ayat 51) below.
http://www.ahadees.com/quran/ayat.php?surah=5&ayat=51
'O believer! Do not take the Jews and Christians as friends, they are friends of each other among themselves, and whoso of you makes them his friends, then he is one of them. Undoubtedly Allah guides not the people unjust.
0
usaexpat
If the question read moderate Islam the answer would be yes. The issue is that radical islam does not want to live in peace with the west. All of the bleeding hearts who say don't blame the religeon need to be given a one way ticket to Taliban controlled territories of Afghanistan or Pakistan and then get back to me.
0
roughneck
I am not sure if Muslims, even the non-radical ones, really can see westerners as friend, since their holy book quran says otherwise.
http://www.ahadees.com/quran/ayat.php?surah=5&ayat=51
0
likeitis
Which of course, roughneck must take to mean "be enemies". Not being a friend of someone does not necessarily make you an enemy. Usually, it makes you a mere acquaintance. Note that this totally conflicts with any notion that Muslims are somehow bound by Islam to kill non-believers on sight. If that were true, it would hardly be necessary to remind Muslims not be friends with non-believers, wouldn't it?
But this passage is one of the problems I have with Islam. It goes against co-existence, though it does not ruin it completely. It just makes it unnecessarily difficult. It is one of the passages that Muslims should ignore, just like Christians and Jews ignore parts of their books as well. Sadly, Muslims do not seem as capable of doing that.
0
OssanAmerica
My answer to the question is..maybe, but probably not. It's really up to the muslim world to clean themselves up. On one hand you have fundamentalists like the Taliban, and at the other extreme succesful muslim nations like Turkey, Dubai that are effectively in step with the rest of the 21st century. I think that only the wealthiest and most developed muslim nations can " deal" with fundementalism. Only problem is that they don't seem to want or have the guts to do so. When non-muslims deal with it we're infidels.
0
Yuki_51
Often, a disaster has to come in order to discredit hysterical religious fervor that assumes political power. Look at Japan's embrace of state Shinto. (Actually mostly an imposed embrace from the top down, but nonetheless a situation where a fundamentalist supernatural belief system attained political power.) Ultimately, that resulted in the utter devastation of the country. Shinto still exists of course, but only a very few of us are interested in it having any political power ever again.
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LostinNagoya
The Coran is one of the best ¨how to conduct yourself¨ in terms of spirituality. It´s right there with the Sermon on the Mount of Jesus Christ. Nowadays, the problem is not Islam, which is beautiful. Problem is the suffering the Islam followers have been inflicted the last 100 years, with the peak in 1958. These people have been misunderstood, have their land stolen in plain day-light, and have been accused and said criminals, when the truth is that they are victims.
0
grafton
LostinNagoya at 08:57 AM JST - 15th April
I am an intelligent human being, I do not need a book to tell me how to live a good life. I will treat you as I would be treated myself. It is that simple & does not need an out side agent to set rules for us to live by.
And for those of you that keep saying that the Koran teaches that “infidel” need to be killed, no it doesn’t, it teaches that the “people of the book” (the bible) are to be respected & that they must not be killed of have the property taken from them.
Most religions have thankfully been watered down over the years until now only Islam seems incapable of coming to terms with the real world of the 21st. century. This leads some apologists to argue that since other religions needed time to adjust then so too will Islam. This is total nonsense given that other religions were working their way through periods of time when the whole world was backward & ignorant & there was no other way for them to be. That is not the case with Islam, there is a world history for Muslims to see & learn from.
It is just sad that they choose not to.
0
Muchakucha
Some even allow homosexuality?
Do they really?
Damning praise, smithinjapan. And of little comfort to homosexuals in Saudi, Iran, Somalia, Yemen, the Swat Valley etc. But Islamic aplogists who value their PC credentials above all else seldom care a jot for the victims of Islam.
0
ronaldk
The two religions do peacefully coexist for the most part.
0
Muchakucha
LostinNagoya:
You think wife-beating and the slaying of infidels and apostates is beautiful?
Certainly, the Koran preaches kindness and charity, but only to other Muslims! Non-Muslims must be converted, subjugated or defeated in battle.
And your history lesson is laughable. Islam is a martial ideology created by a warlord. It's been at almost constant war with its neighbours for 1400 years; from its initial conquest of the Arabian Peninsula, Jersualem and Palestine (which sparked the Crusades), North Africa, Spain and Portugal, eastern India... its war machine never rested. Only when the rest of the world began to modernise did Islamic military conquest cease (since Islam and modernisation are incompatible.)
Islam cannot coexist peacefully with anything that isn't Islam. It needs to change for sake of everyone.
0
WilliB
ronaldk:
They do not. Where islam dominates, it allows Christians and Jews to live, under second-class dhimmi conditions, following islamic prescript (to various degrees of strictness, depending on the government). Where islam is in the minority, it strives for independence and Shariah rule, typically with terrorism. There is no country where non-muslims enjoy complete freedom and equal rights in muslim country, or where a large muslim population is peacefull integrated in a non-muslim majority. None. Look around the world.
Nowhere in islamic teaching does the concept of integration in non-islam exist. Created by the sword, spread by the sword. And unchangeable forever.
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WilliB
Grafton:
All you are doing is demonstrating that you have never read the Koran. (Alas, all to typical...)
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LostinNagoya
Grafton: LostinNagoya at 08:57 AM JST - 15th April
I am an intelligent human being, I do not need a book to tell me how to live a good life.
I am intelligent too, but I am humble enough to tell you that I have to read books to learn. It must be good to learn just by breathing, congratulations!
Muchakucha: You think wife-beating and the slaying of infidels and apostates is beautiful?
of course not. But I know to tell ancient laws from modern society. Christians, Jewish, any religion has its ancient laws that do need modernization - now you can´t judge a whole culture based on these laws.
And your history lesson is laughable.
yeah, I may laugh. It was not my people who had their land stolen. Honestly, as a Christian I have found more sincerity and friendship among Muslins than, say, the famous land-robbers. That´s what matters to me, not their religion.
0
Muchakucha
Lostinnagoya:
These are not 'ancient laws', they are part of modern Islam, as practised whereever there is Islamic jurisprudence. Islamic clerics and scholars tell us these laws cannot be modernised. And tell me, where is this modernisation happening? In Saudi? In Iran?
You seem to deliberately avoiding the point. I never suggested that Muslims cannot be good people. I claim that parts of Islam doctrine are barbaric and should be challenged. For example, your Muslim friends, (and mine), are contravening Surah Al-Maidah : Ayat 51 by simply being friends of infidels. And what's more, you seem to agree with me that Islamic laws needed modernising. So what's the problem?
I too have Muslims friends and acquaintances. Most don't agree with large areas of barbaric Islamic doctrine, whereas some tell me that stoning of women for adultery is correct. It's the doctrine which is at fault. Why else would a sane person come to believe that stoning for adultery is justified?
BTW, do you really divide the world into 'Muslims' and 'land-robbers' ?
0
ronaldk
Willib:
I am not convinced by platitudes. If you consider the entire population of Muslims in the world and the entire population of other religions, the vast majority of these people live in peace (not everyone lives in the West Bank). We are simply programmed by propaganda to believe certain things, and Bush has inculcated us with a hatred/fear of Muslims for the past 5 years. Think rationally based on statistics of actual physical conflict and the reality is the world is a pretty safe place.
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LostinNagoya
Muchakucha: I don´t see modernization anywhere when it comes down to these ancient religions. My point is that we can not point the finger, as many do, when our own religion is not that perfect. Being Christian, this fresh episode of that German bishop about the Holocaust is enough to put me in the right place. Not to mention the Inquisition. So, I don´t think it´s fair to judge Muslins. If one wants to judge, then let´s create a whole enquete with all the biggest modern religions.
And if you see barbarism in Islam, you are right. But do not single Islam out. There are even worse things done in name of other gods and beliefs. And, and this is a big And, if there are extremists in some countries, or regions, they do not speak of the whole majority.
Your indignation towards Islam makes us infer that your own religion has reached an elevation that Islam has not yet? What is it? I am curious here...answering your question, as I said above, I am Christian Kardecist and I am aware that my own doctrine is full of flaws.
0
teleprompter
But you can't provide examples, can you.
0
Muchakucha
LostinNagoya:
I'm a secularist agnostic.
The bishop is not quoting Christian doctrine, he is explaining his own beliefs, ludicrous as they may be. The same is not true of Islamic 'extremists' like Bin Laden, the Taleban, or Anjem Choudhary. They quote the Koran and Hadiths directly, exclusively and accurately. And yet we're told they're 'distorting' Islam. Note that it's usually not Muslims who say they're distorting Islam; it's 'infidel' Islamic apologists who say so. Apparently they think they know more about Islam than Islamic clerics do.
That was 500 years ago. And again, nothing in Christian doctrine advocated it. Try to find anything in Jesus' teachings that advocates violence. A similar search of the Koran yields the prophet Mohamed himself urging his followers to violence or many occasions.
You seem to fail to be able to make the distinction between a religious doctrine (the 'holy texts') and the actions of individuals who claim to be acting in the name of religion.
It's Islamic doctrine, clear and unequivocal, and which we're told cannot be changed, which causes problems.
0
LostinNagoya
TP: anyone who reads at least one paper can provide examples. Do you read them?
What about IRA? the African albinos? the mutilation of women in Eastarn Africa? Or the political fueled ones: China in Tibet, to mention one.
0
LostinNagoya
Muchakucha: your point is to pay attention to the negative points in the Islamic doctrine and projecting them. As I said, to me Islam is ok, there´s just the last 5 years of heavy propaganda as someone wrote above. Propaganda does miracles, as we see.
0
Muchakucha
Lostinnagaya:
You still don't get it. Please explain how Jesus' teachings inspire the IRA. You can't. Whereas Mohammed's teachings directly inspire Islamic terrorists.
I'm not projecting them, Islamic terrorists are. If it hadn't been for 9/11 and subsequent atrocities, most of the western world still be completely oblivious to the 'negative aspects' of Islamic doctrine. Prior to 9/11 I had know idea such a brutal ideology still existed. I think you should blame the terrorists and Islamic 'extremists', not those who oppose their brutal ideology.
0
Yuki_51
Muchakucha is correct.
And any religion that thinks it is okay to kill apostates is a religion that is terribly insecure about its validity. If you possess ultimate truth, you don't have to kill anyone for deciding otherwise. This is THE NUMBER ONE most illustrative point about Islam. It is insecure, and even though it says "submit to Allah", it wants to take matters into human hands. So in fact, Islam is not a religion that submits. Islam believes that God needs help. Some submission.
0
HonestDictator
LostinNagoya:The IRA is the ONLY point you're able to make in current examples of religiously influenced terrorism. But you seem to forget that the IRA doesn't carry out organized terrorism in a multitude of nations, nor did they do random target mass killings that would have harmed their own.
The Islamic fundies DO carry out their acts in various nations using the koran as their reason. Check out the situations going on in the Phillipines, parts of Africa (The Ethiopians are not fighting thin air), Thailand, Pakistan, the terrorist attacks and hostage takings before the US 9/11.
As I said earlier, Islamic base doctrine needs and has to change first in order to get in step with what you're thinking. Many normal muslims know this at heart, but the fundies rule through fear to keep them silenced from inspiring this much needed change. As I said
0
LostinNagoya
Muchakucha, Yuki 51, HonestDictator:
As I said to MK, you are focusing on the negative points of Islam and projecting them. To me it´s still alright, its teachings are superb. Only that human conditions can distort it. But as I stated above, all religions have their beauty distorted at some point. White wine anyone?
0
Muchakucha
LostinNagoya: :-) Even if a cult advocated free love, free beer, non-stop fun, self-enlightenment, kindness, respect and charity to fellow (male) cult members, but which stated I should beat my wife and kill people who leave the cult, I would class it as an evil cult and give it a wide berth.
Not in Islamic countries, you'd get flogged! All part of the 'beautiful' Islamic doctrine.
0
teleprompter
"Violence in the Bible is descriptive; in the Koran it is prescriptive."
0
Oyajid
Just for your info not every Islamic country apply the Shariah... And talking about violence and religion... Let's talk about crusades, witch hunting and so on... Also really Old... As old as the Quran... Anyway as a peacefull Muslim I'de say we (the non beard/non bomb Muslim) are more numerous than the extremists but they do scream louder and let's face it, if CNN/FOX/BBC showed people preaching peace it would not be as much fun as showing Angry-Beardy
0
LostinNagoya
Oyajid: that´s exactly my point. Those who focus only in one aspect, tend to miss the whole truth. And the ones who do so, are as dangerous as extremist - who also can´t see the whole, they focus in just one point. These ¨focusists¨ are the ones who tend to judge other cultures and don´t observe their own.
0
jonnyboy
lots of people are descending it discussions of the relative violence of islam vs. christianity. however, this discussion is supposed to be about the ability of the west and islam to co-exist. seeing as we are discussing violence, would it be right to assume that you all believe this is impossible? seeing as the two cultures are both so violent, n'all?
ps. it is interesting to note that the topic is islam vs. "the west" whereas it seems to me that "can islam and the rest of the world coexist?" would be an equally pertinent question.
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Oyajid
As I have been raised in France, studied in France, Worked in US/UK and now live in Japan, so at least I can say "1 muslim can get along with west" but wait! I forgot my 2 brother that makes 3 + taking the 4000000 Muslim in France appliying the "-10% of beardy-crazy" I can say that at least approximatively 3 600 003 can get along with west... Honestly... This question has no sense because when you do a poll about religions "generaly" and I stress the "generaly" you get the extremes answering first making further discussion impossible. From my opinion, there is no Islam World nor Christian World but ONE World with a lot of individuals that have a different vision of it.
0
USARonin
Was it last year or the year before that immigrant Muslims burned down France?
Someboddy help me with the time-frame.
Thank you.
0
Muchakucha
Not yet. Even in Britain, Muslims are demanding Sharia Law. And guess what- the dhimmi government has given it to them. It's now de facto legal for a Muslim to beat his wife in the UK, since he can choose to be judged in a Sharia court. And Koran 4:34 lets him off the hook.
Irrelevant, because not only were these 1000 years ago and 400 years ago respectively, neither was justified by Christian doctrine (ie the teachings of Jesus.) Muhammed's teachings however still compel Muslims to spread Islam through violence. That's why the Crusdades happened, as an attempt to regain lands conquered by Muhammed.
The BBC/FOX/CNN/AFP/Reuters bend over backwards to avoid making the connection between Islamic terror and the Koran, while the terrorists themselves bend over backwards to do the opposite.
If more Muslims were indignant at 'Angry-Beardy' the problem might be solved.
Islam can only coexist with the non-Islamic world if the reason d'etre of its extremist terrorists, the actual teaching of Muhammed himself, are re-interpreted in a modern, civilised context. But if one tries to do that, one becomes the subject of a fatwa.
LostinNagoya: whitewashing the negative aspects of Islam, and thereby allowing Sharia Law and its mediaeval treatment of women, gays, adultery etc to spring up everywhere, is contributing to the downfall of enlightened society. Conversely, encouraging Islam to drop its barbaric verses and to modernise is serving an enlighted society.
0
USARonin
Muchakucha, Britain already has Sharia law courts.
It's like they can't commit national suicide fast enough.
0
Oyajid
lol you mean Immigrant Muslim counting for only 15% of the involved people in such riots that were actually social contestation from people living in hoods and that cannot access good school/good jobs and so on... Nothing to do with Islam. The trigger was N.Sarkozy saying : "I will clean these places from gang using karcher". Oh yeah but I do recall the head line of CNN saying "Muslim Riots" and using a map of Europe puting Strasbourg in Austria and Bordeaux in Spain ( we really had a good laugh).
0
Yuki_51
LostinNagoya ...
How can you say its teaching is superb. There is no excuse for killing someone because they no longer believe something that they used to believe. No excuse. None. Zero.
This is not projection, and it is not any minor point. It is a glaring deficiency of any religion that would claim, as Islam does, to be universal. You can't just pretend it isn't true. The simple fact is that if any person in almost any Muslim majority country would attempt to publicly leave the faith, that person would have to fear for his or her life. Until Muslims condemn this barbaric tradition, the Muslim religion has no future.
0
mareo2
USARonin at 04:19 PM JST - 15th April
I can help you. First, it was the sons of inmigrants, that means french teenagers not inmigrants. Second, about the muslim extremism root that you think that exist maybe you can read well respected american newspapers like the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/international/europe/12suburb.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print
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USARonin
Mario2, thank you.
Muslims were burnin' down France; I just had their ages wrong.
Not bein' a leftist I generally don't go to the NYT as a source of news. The 'Gray Lady' sure has fallen.
Again, thank you.
0
USARonin
Oyajid, I'm sure the Muslims don't feel they're bein' racist.
But they sure are ungrateful to their mother country as Mareo2 says France is.
0
mareo2
USARonin, you are welcome. I want to beliebe that the longer that we all respect each other, understanding is possible.
0
WilliB
mareo2:
That is typical procedure. While the young are on their intifada, the elders deny that islam has anything to do with it. Look up the concepts of "taqqiva".
Meanwhile, the French riots are really not much different from the intifada riots going on in other European cities with their bulging muslim suburbs. Plenty of videos where you can hear the rioters should "Allah Akbar"... typical for Catholics and Animist´s n´est ce pas?
You might also wonder why the French government negotiated with muslim imams to get the intifadists to stop... I guess the imams have a great influence on "Catholics and Animists", LOL.
Of course, count on the NYT to report the politically correct story.
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WilliB
Oyajid:
Correct. But in every islamic country, the islamic clerics are calling for Shariah. So what happens when you take the lid off?
0
Oyajid
Let me explain one thing. For the love of god (yup we do believe in the same...) there were no connection to religion at all, using shorcuts between these Riots and Islam is just a proof of you being short minded and no different from the muslim extremists, really not at all. Again, faith, is a personnal thing, there are, in my point of view, as many Qurans as readers. Some people find peace in it other find war, I wouldn't dare say who's right and who's wrong since it's not my vision. Seriously, you think putting everyone together is the right thing like " Muslim = Terrorism"? Even our right wing in France " Le Front National " acknowledge the fact that there were no connections between Islam and these Riots... Maybe you should start making sense, no ?
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Muchakucha
A noble sentiment. And you're free to express it because you live in a civilised, tolerant society. Try expressing that sort of sentiment in places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Swat Valley, or any place where Islam is the only jurisprudence, and see where it gets you.
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mareo2
WilliB at 05:40 PM JST - 15th April
Fair enough, then Washington Post is fine? If it not, please tell me what well respected american newspaper is good in your opinion.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/07/AR2005110700295.html
I honestly think that it was a problem of "racist discrimination" against a french minority, not a "holy war" drived by the Koran like some people think.
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uperjer
insult jews and it's called anti-semitism. insult muslims and it's called infitada. insult christians and it's called comedy.
go figure.
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WilliB
mareo2:
Whatever you "honestly think" does not change the reality. The French suburbs where this happens are muslim ghettoes, not a happy collection of Christian, Buddhist, Jewish or whatever residents.
And the French intifada really does not look different from the identical riots in Luton, Antwerp, Amsterdam, and other European towns blessed with their new muslim populations, which (surprise!) refuse to integrate into the kuffar society.
As the islmamic presence grows in the US, you´ll get the same, don´t worry.
That the Washington Post stays with the politically correct party line, is no surprise. In fact, blanking out "islam" from islamic riots is pretty much SOP for Western media.
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LostinNagoya
Now I am laughing here. There´s this second post arguing that the media conspiracy (first one from muchakucha), somehow in favor of Muslins. Gimme a break. That´s what I call a conspiracy. lolol.
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mareo2
WilliB at 06:52 PM JST - 15th April
I think that the Washington Post mention that the majority of the people in that ghettoes are muslims, but not all of them. But you say that western media cant be trusted. Then, what serius and well respected no-western source of news you recomend that we read so we can understand the true reality that you explain to us?
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LostinNagoya
Their source of information: propaganda. Wrong propaganda.
0
teleprompter
"War is deceit"
Straight from the mouth of the illiterate brigand who founded Islam.
0
fairyprince
1 vote separates "Yes" from "No".
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Toecutter
There is no god. You`ve wasted your lives.
Faith of any flavour is simply a means of keeping you in your boxes, ignorant and malleable.
You`ve all built you lives on the old stories of mis-guided men. And they were just men, not sons of god or prophets - just men.
Stories based on nothing more than faith are just stories, and repeating them over and over again through the centuries doesn`t make them any more true.
Go with god, fools.
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WilliB
Toecutter:
You are free to say that openly in Israel, in the post-Christian societies of the West, in Hindu India, and even in Buddhist Thailand. In a Shariah country, saying the same would cost you your head.
Thanks for making the point.
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mareo2
WilliB at 10:09 PM JST - 15th April
I dont question that in some countries there is no freedom of practice of religion. What I question, is that people put in doubt that the same religion can be practiced in the free modern societies in a moderate and peaceful coexistence with other religions.
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tclh
I see no problem for Islam to coexist with the rest of the world IF they allow religious freedom in their own islamic countries like the rest of the world. If this never happen then it will be MORE peaceful for the rest of world if muslims just live in their own countries with their whatever law that is. It is very hard for one who tolerates everything to coexist with one who tolerates nothing .Insult Christianity ,or Buddhism = comedy(as it is already said); insult Islam= riot,chaos or possible death.When Islam invaded India thousands plus years ago they KILLED all buddhists for chosing deaths instead of becoming muslims.
0
elbudamexicano
I say yes, why? Well half of my family is Catholic the other is Protestant and 1 of my sisters is married to a Sunni muslim, while me, I am the "black sheep" of the entire family by having converted to BUDDHISM and we all get along just fine. Not all Muslims are idiot Talibanis and not all so called "good Christians" are as good as they make themselves out to be. We are all in the same boat on this tiny planet, so enjoy!
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mareo2
I think that people keep avoiding the real roots of the extremism. Oil, interventionism, client states, represion, poverty. Let me make two examples about terrorism that can look like religion driven but most likely is about social problems. "The Troubles" in Northen Ireland. It was all western and christian, catholics against protestants, killing themselves and perhaps not so different of the Irak near-civil war in Irak, all midle-easterns and muslims, Sunnies against Shiites. The truth is that God have few to do in these conflicts, but some people can try to paint things in a religious way. Terrorists, try to provocate heavy handed reactions by painting a picture where the target believe that every muslim is a potential terrorist. If you buy that tale, they win, because then you are terrified enough for deportations and concentrations camps, even if the people is innocent. I have relatives in the USA and the older one got in a "War Relocation Camp". The 442nd Infantry “The Purple Heart Battalion” was made of japanese-americans fighted with courage and honor in europe, there is muslim-americans soldiers fighting in Irak. I think that people must to judged their compatriots for their actions, not for their color, religion, social class or ancestry.
0
Toecutter
WilliB:
You're welcome.
"mis-guided" was the point, right?
Of course, lopping my head off wouldn't make it any less true. Blind faith (any faith) is simply blind.
In countries which maintain a separation of church and state, and provide a stable political and economic framwork, any number relgions can (and do) co-exist quite peacefully, and often change and adapt.
A strong education system based on solid foundations (i.e. NO intelligent design stupidity), and the means to provide oneself with an economically secure way of life will overcome fanaticism in any form, eventually.
Ignorance and poverty are your enemies, not Islam, Christianity, Animism, Buddism or whatever.
0
Muchakucha
tclh: an excellent post.
I actually think Islam can coexist with non-Islamic world only if it changes. But it's never going to change by itself, so outside encouragement is required. However, while politicians and other ostrich-like commentators perpetuate the dangerous fallacy that Islam is tolerant "religion of peace", no outside encouragement is going to be forthcoming. Therefore the first step in creating the conditions for a peaceful world that includes Islam is for everybody to understand that Islam has terrible problems on a unique scale (intolerance, mysogyny etc) and to address those problems appropriately. Islamic apologists are ultimately doing Islam, themselves, and everyone else, a huge disservice.
0
mareo2
Muchakucha at 01:50 PM JST - 16th April
Interesting idea, are you are going to ask to the USA gob to "encourage" the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to hold elections, dont say that the Koran is the national constitution, droop the Sharia and get a secular society? After all ranked the 7th most autoritarian regime in the world in The Economist 2008 Democracy Index.
0
sf2k
as long as we can see your face I don't have a problem. Head scarfs fine, the burka, full coverings, no way. Refugees didn't leave their countries and come to ours just to continue enslavement in whatever guise it forms.
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Muchakucha
mareo2:
No, I was thinking of how Muslim society can integrate into non-Muslims societies. Non-Muslim societies should resist all calls for Sharia law to implemented, roll back Sharia where it already operates (like the UK), and somehow encourage Immans in non-Muslim countries to stop preaching intolerant and misogynistic values. Then successful integration may become possible. But this isn't happening because short-sighted dhimmi governments refuse to concede that there's anything wrong with Sharia or Islamic teaching. Searching for and revealing the truth about Islam to as many people as possible is the first step in rectifying this.
0
uperjer
there is no truth about islam.
0
RandomTask
Hopefully it can, but I doubt it.
0
TokyoHustla
Islam needs to be crushed in order to stop global terrorism. The sooner the better.
0
likeitis
The only group of people that need to be crushed to stop terrorism and other violence is those that always think the answer to everything is to just go crush some people. I imagine that would mean crushing somewhat fewer people than the 1 billion you suggest. And I am sure they would be mostly men, so I might convert to Islam so that I can legitimize having a harem of some of those extra women we will have.
0
Den Den
The root of all evil is bigotry. that I am afraid means Christianity. The so-called cult leader was a radical criminal(terrorist) who was sentenced for severe crimes against the state. How can people worship such a person?
0
Falstaff
Toecutter says:
What is faith? Faith is basically trust. It is only as good as the person or thing that you trust. All faith is not blind faith. Faith is based on / must be accompanied by relationship,reason,rationale, and reputation. It comes in levels. For example: -faith in toecutter's promise: 0 percent -- Don't know him/her, no history to go by. This would be blind faith. -faith in the education system's promise to solve all of the world's problems: 25 percent -faith in stock market's promise: 50 percent -- past history shows some potential for profit, but not totally predictable / reliable. -faith in the best brands product promise (50 years ago): 75 percent -- made good quality products, good reputation -faith in my best friend's promise: 90 percent -- never lies, cares for me, but human after all. -faith in promise of a good God with thousands of years history and a personal relationship: infinite
toecutter says:
Rich people don't commit crimes? Its not ignorance and poverty (those are important), but it is selfishness that is the root problem. Fix selfishness = no more poverty. Education doesn't fix selfishness.
Den Den says:
Wow! How can these two sentences be put together in all seriousness?Summary of Den Den's profound statement: sentence 1 -- Bigotry = bad. sentence 2 -- Me=bigot. I think the ignorance part of toecutter's post applies to the rest of Den Den's statement.
0
sabiwabi
The very first thing that must be done to crush global terrorism is to identify CORRECTLY where it is coming from. Islam is not the source of terrorism and to attack it will only make things worse.
I see there is no shortage of Islamophobic agitators!
0
Muchakucha
sabiwabi: then why do Islamic terrorists quote the Koran in their defence, and yell Allah Akubar, and speak in terms of Islam v the Infidel? The West is bending over backwards to say that the root cause of Islamic terror is NOT Islam, whereas the Islamic terrorists are saying exacly the opposite, loudy, clearly and incessantly. Who do you believe?
Islamophobe = somebody who fears Islam Since Islam is a mysogynistic, intolerant, violent, supermacist ideology I do indeed fear it, and with good reason. I think all sensible people should fear it. Therefore I'm not offended by the term 'Islamophobe'.
Being bigotted or racist is of course as low as one can get. However, if one has studied Islamic texts, being Islamophobic is just common sense.
"Agitator" is of course an unwarranted insult.
0
Oyajid
0
globalization
Even within a united single country entity people of the same origin do not coexist peacefully: take for example Japan. The Meiji rulers learned the wrong things from the West and ignored their own good traditions and culture when thy decided to attack Asia, violate women and minority rights, destroy the environement and become alienated from their families.
0
sabiwabi
Muchakucha, watching FOX a little too much it seems. Sorry, but agitator is very much applicable here.
You've got to be kidding. The most intolerant, violent, supermacist, ideology is not Muslim. I'll give you a hint, they recently murdered about 1400 people, many women and children, who had no place to escape. This group has also pushed kicked out of Palestine most of its Muslim and Christian population.
And this just in: "Israeli troops manning the land Al-Ojah checkpoint in Central Sinai sent back 13 truckloads of 250 tons of flour dispatched by the Egyptian Red Crescent to Gaza Strip on Thursday. The official Egyptian news agency, the Middle East News Agency, quoted a source in the association as saying that the Israeli authorities have hampered dispatch of aid to the Palestinians in Gaza Strip through this checkpoint."
0
dennis0bauer
The problem is not islam it is religion, or rather institutionalized religion.
0
Toecutter
Falstaff:
Strange argument. For all the examples in which you profess to have some modicum of faith (or not), you give your reasons why - "...faith in Toecutters promises - 0% (wise), don
t know him, no history...", "...faith in best friends promises - 90%, never lies, cares for me ...".I get it - your faith in these things is based on evidence.
But then, "...faith in a good god with thousands of years of history and a personal relationship, infinite."
What happened? You were doing so well until then. The fact that a fable has been passed down through the years/centuries does not make it any less false than when it was first told.
"... a personal relationship...", have you met god?! That would make you unique (or you have access to some good drugs).
But you are right, I used "faith" too generally. "Blind Faith in god", "blind faith in the truth of the bible, the koran, or whatever other relgious text you subscribe to" - this is the blindness I was referring to. Where is the solid evidence of the truth of these things? There`s plenty of evidence that stories were told - but none as to the truth or accuracy of any of them. Especially the god nonsense.
They are simply the stories of mortal men, sometimes amusing, entertaining, fodder for movies and fiction, useful for scaring children - but nothing more. View them as morality tales by all means, but don`t subscribe to the truth of them simply because they have "...thousands of years of history..." (BTW, define "history" - I think you mean "longevity").
"Ignorance and poverty are your enemies"
sigh You missed the point.
0
jessssicaaa
why do people bring god into this? lol
Islam can coexist in the Western world... but is this question saying that the western peoples are superior :O i just love to bring up questions like that ;]
screw history quit living in the past get on with your life? - we're ment to learn from past mistakes, not avenge them lol... but nobody can say "eh we were bullies back then werent we, but we're better the that now." lol it will always be "ABOUT 300 years ago! your people killed mine!! SO YOUR GOING TO DIE!" stupid much? its old news.. remember it but dont dwell over it... ;P
0
Seiharinokaze
Underneath all its bluff, I heard somewhere, Islam is a world of polytheism and strong women.
Arabic race began from an offspring born out of wedlock because of his father not really believing God's words and instead agreeing to take a concubine. He swayed and quivered not before God but actually between two women. And this may have something to do with polygamy often practiced in Islamic societies which is supposed to be a relief measure to save mother-and-child families. Perhaps Islam is full of the common touch on the inside.
0
sakura29
if there's a will, there's a way!
0
TokyoHustla
Islamaphobe = someone who fears islam. I have no fear of it whatsoever, because I believe in the Truth. Islam needs to be stopped and crushed out of existence so that all may be free to believe the Truth - Shintoism.
0
teleprompter
The West wants and values progress. Mohammedan nations created and invented almost nothing these last 400 years.
Many Mohammedans are simply battling modernization.
0
LostinNagoya
tokyohustla
Nice words from a shintoist, no wonder you have even shrines for war criminals. Respect other religions if want yours respected. Islam is not perfect, no religion is. And yes, we can coexist in peace.
0
donpolski
yes they can, when one annihilates the other
0
donpolski
It's interesting for this topic to be raised in Japan, how many muslims are in Japan nowadays? Is it 2 or 3, I forget. When you have 10% of the population muslim, raise this question again. Look at how even muslim liberals fall silent when it comes to publicly criticising Islamic fundamentalists, because they know that they would become the next victims.
0
HonestDictator
If Islamic terrorist didn't exist and strike out at other countries besides their own then none of us would even be considering this question.
0
TheQuestion
I've read most religious texts out of sheer curiosity. My own religious affiliations or lack there of aside. I find that, if interpreted with a tendency towards moderation and without preconcptions of superiority any member of any religion may be integrated into most western countries (some easier than others). Nobody likes religious zelots or militant atheists (same insanity, different ideology).
0
aelieth
There is no such thing as world peace, there is always a winner, always a loser. Middle East and Western views are the same way. There must be someone that is suffering to prevent the suffering of others - it is why America buys its clothes from Chinese or other sweat shops.
0
proudathiest
dennis0bauer > I agree
It matters not what names you give these religions. The fact is they, by very definition, cannot coexist.
Religion is the problem.
Terrorism = religion
0
proudathiest
The question of this topic is ridiculous.
The answer is self-evident. There is not debate here folks.
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Disillusioned
Awe, c'mon! I know many Islams who are not terrorists. It is only the hard-core extremists, who I might ad have been disowned by the true Islams, who are terrorizing the western world and their own countries. Islam is a peaceful religion, therefor, these terrorists are not Islams. There are just terrorists using Islam as a guise for their terror acts. So, the answer to this some-what stupid poll is, of course, YES!
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proudathiest
Disillusioned>
So do I, but it does not mean religion is a good thing. And, no, they are not "using Islam as a guise for their terror acts", they truly believe that their actions will take them to a better place.
Please understand that with any religion, it is but a small step for ordinary people to make in becoming an "extremist" capable of any number atrocities as we have repeatedly seen throughout history.
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proudathiest
The Question>
"militant atheists" - can you give us an example?
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likeitis
Some communist rebels? Not all of course.
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memyselfI
Hello
It's me again.．
To answer this question
First of all not everybody thinks the same. Not everybody want to change their culture and beliefs and ADOPT a new system of beliefs.
Not everybody is on the same page.
Let's forget about this " european philospy "
Conquer a country and trying to make it as the exact copy of your home country,
Let's forget about that roman empire capture the city complex.
" Alexandria, Egypt " Let's Respect one another and forge unity.
Let's share the world.
Maintaining Peace with Superior firepower is soooooooo 20th century thinking.
I can't wait for the day when we stop thinking creative ways to kill each other.
Nuclear and Biological
Someday my dream will come.
But until that dream happens we have to respect different cultures. Only time and talking will change things.
Superior Firepower only lasts for a short while.
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Falstaff
If you believe in survival of the fittest, there will never be lasting peace. Sad reality of our human nature.
Let's be real and look at our own little world of our daily life -- we are driven to be better. Better than whom? Why? So our co-worker loses his/her job instead of us. Job sharing? Well, if its not in the company's best interest, it wouldn't happen. The little "wars" in our life contine... Do you think the wars around the world will stop? Only as long as it is in our best interest. There will be peace if the circumstances are good for me, but war if they are now.
Religions can coexist as long as both sides want them to. Its as simple as that. Whether or not this peaceful existence is true to each one's religious viewpoint is the question.
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Falstaff
Sorry, should be "not"
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Nessie
I would call host desecrators militant athiests.
http://santitafarella.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/pz-myers-is-wrong-about-host-desecration-an-agnostic-urges-other-agnostics-and-atheists-to-shun-pz-myers-until-he-reaffirms-liberal-values/
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Nessie
That's athiest militant, not militant athiest.
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tokyocrawler
What a stupid question! firstly Islam is a religion! so are you asking if a certain religion can coexist with a certain culture?? well..what is the heck do you mean by Western world??
There seems to be some assumption made that Islam is seperate from a part of the World gepgraphically known as the West....some mixed up concepts here folks...leading to some mixed up answers....are we talking religion with religion or culture vs another culture or geography?? what about a person born in the West who becomes a muslim? then we have an example of perfect co existenece!
Better to compare Western world and Eastern world, or Islam and christianity, like with like...
anyway,assuming I kinda know what you wanna ask...
Islam, and many other religions already exist in and are part of every country in the Western world our history is woven with influences from all sides ...the mere fact that we see them as "over there" is a basic mistake!
Clarify your questions or you just encourage a bunch of ridiculous and ethnocentric responses
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WilliB
tokyocrawler:
Is it really? Any muslim cleric could explain to you that islam is much more than a personal religion; it is complete way of life, a political, legal, and cultural system, a culture. And one that has no concept of being integrated into a different one. To the contrary, in islamic doctrine "peace" on earth will be achieve once the whole world is submitted under islam (which means "submission" in Arabic).
This is not a secret; we used to know that. The fact that you don´t only demonstrates the result of our politically correct school education.
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jewel
The only way they will coexist is if the Western world becomes Muslim. It is best to let Muslims be Muslims and Westerners be Westerners without forcing oneself upon each other or asking either to compromise their culture or religion, but to coexist one has to give up their beliefs/lifestyle or both have to give up some things. Muslims have strong beliefs and Westerners have strong ideas of what they feel is the best way to live so to ask either to give up something they strongly believe in is wrong and is bound to have a clash.
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RandomTask
I dream of the day when religion is but a bad memory.
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Sarge
RandomTask - Dream on. There will always be people who gaze at the stars and ask themselves how it is that this beautiful blue planet we live on came into existence, and find that religion gives their lives a sense of meaning and comfort.
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mareo2
Sarge at 10:05 AM JST - 19th April
I cant agree more.
RandomTask: Let` me make an example, my mother is a budist, I despise what the Budisth gov made to the Burakumin and what is still a hiden dicrimination here. But of course I dont think that modern Budism is dangerous. I think that what is really dangerous is fanatism in any form, be religion or politics or anything else like ecology.
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Jigg88
Yes, just like human and fish can coexist peacefully
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Ah_so
I am aware that Christianity does not really follow the teachings of the Old Testament. However, you asked us to name 1 religion that sanctioned stoning for apostacy other than Islam and I also named Judaism, which is a large religion. In terms of the Old Testament, we like to pick and choose which bits of it we consider worth our inclusion and which bits are just the random rules of an ancient tribal society.
Most of the OT prophets still get a pretty big billing in the Christian church and why has the modern church not cast out the books of Deutronomy and Leviticus etc and added them to the apocrypha?
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