JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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Google versus Facebook for dominance of the web. Who has the upper hand?
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39 Comments
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earthcreature
Of course it's ok for him to visit pearl harbor. I mean Hillary Clinton just visited Japan, and may I remind you of the TWO little things the Americans left behind in Japan???? So in comparison there is no comparison, there for I believe its perfectly okay for the emperor to visit pearl harbor.
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aoto
japan attacked a military target and the usa nuked two cities. no problem for him to vist. no problem for obama to visit japan
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cleo
Where's the 'Don't care either way' button?
Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima/Nagasaki both happened over 60 years ago. I don't think they should be forgotten (as in, learn from history or repeat it), but constantly picking over old scabs isn't constructive.
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OssanAmerica
The idea of the Emperor, or any person of high profile visiting Pearl Harbor, or any well known WWII sites isn't to "pick old scabs". It's to heal old memories, pay respects and further the conciliation between nations.
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Beelzebub
Anything done by the emperor is really done by the people pulling the strings behind him. We need to question their motives, not his. Frankly I can't see anything good coming from this. There are people in both countries who will screech so vociferously that it will blot out any possibility of further good will. From the standpoint of diplomacy, it would be more appropriate for the Emperor to visit the Punchbowl military cemetery and lay a wreath.
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bandogeek
What Japan did to Pearl Harbor was nothing compared to what the US did to Japan. Not only did the US drop firebombs and burning down many Japanese cities, they also dropped 2 atomic bombs which killed thousands in a matter of a second. I think if anyone throws a fit about the Emperor visiting Pearl Harbor they need a serious history lesson.
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Nessie
Only if he goes as a kamikaze bomber, with ample warning given of his arrival.
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IchyaWarFare
Ossan- cleo was not picking scabs, she was probably saying the same as you, just don't pick at it.
Beelzebub - Nice conspiracy theory.
bandogeek - what does that have to do with the Emperor going to Pearl Harbor? We can talk about the war all day, it has nothing to do with now except for trying to pay respects.
IMO - I wish there was no Emperor going and just the PM, if he would go. Why the Emperor? This is not England and what pull does the Emperor have now?
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smithinjapan
I think it's a good thing if he decides to visit Pearl Harbor. However, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if he doesn't, so long as it were not to avoid the place intentionally, as many American presidents have done with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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Proffessor
Why not?
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likeitis
No one should have a problem with a visit. Its what does or does not come out of his mouth that might be the problem. I also suggest not doing a touchdown victory dance.
I expect the King (yeah, I said King on purpose) to be extremely vague, as per usual, and just call the whole episode regrettable, and pay homage to those who died. He might even mention the 64 Japanese who died. But he won't say sorry, so some people might be upset.
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goodDonkey
My father was on a ship when they bombed Pearl Harbor. I would love to see the emperor visit the site. I certainly would not hold it against Japan or the emperor if he did not. If he does take the time to visit the memorial then I think U.S. Presidents are duty bound to visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki sites in kind. True the situations are quite different in nature but it was still tragic for innocent civilians to die in such a horrific manner as they did from exposure to radiation and to a much less degree those who died instantaneously. My father on the other hand was haunted by his experiences in the war for the rest of his life.
I am not very polarized on this issue. When someone speaks out about the U.S. dropping firebombs and burning down many Japanese cities as well as the nuclear bombs that were dropped I am glad to see them get a chance to show their passion about such an issue. There are still those who hate the Japanese for their role in Pearl Harbor. Let them vent. I am just so grateful that I am at peace with the Japanese people and that our countries have healed so well after decades of efforts to become friends. I consider Japan a friend of the U.S. and hope it is true on a reciprocal basis. Paying respect is always honorable in my opinion. I believe that the Japanese/American relationship after a bitter war is good example of a successful efforts at conciliation.
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OssanAmerica
I believe cleo can speak her own mind, she usually does.
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cleverdave
YES...
As an American soldier I firmly believe that the USA and JAPAN are very good friends and allies. A visit to Pearl Harbor may heal some wounds and can't cause any harm!
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cleo
lol Well at least you're willing to admit I've got one...
:-)
Ichya was right though. Healing old memories, paying respects and getting over it is what it's all about.
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svenka
The Chrysanthemum throne is dripping in the blood of innocent millions. The Emperor of Japan and his family shouldn't even be allowed in the states. They are an embarrassment to humanity. An affront to decency.
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likeitis
Well, gee svenka, if Akihito, who was about 12 when the war ended, and his whole family are an affront to decency, then who can be forgiven for the bloody past of their ancestors, because everyone alive today is surely related to somebody who had blood on their hands.
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rajakumar
I think pearl harbour visits by Japan or Hiroshima visits by US,are good for both Japan and USA.
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Blue_Tiger
He needs to see the consequences of his Daddy's poor decisions. hopefully, he'll learn something, and produce a formal, signed-and-sealed, written apology to those nations his Daddy ordered to be invaded and occupied.
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USNinJapan2
goodDonkey
A truly fine post, with which I agree almost entirely. I only object to your equating the office of the US President with the Emperor of Japan.
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ca1ic0cat
It's all well and good for the Emperor to visit Pearl Harbor. It's a sign of respect as well as reconciliation. I just hope he gets some time to relax on a beach away from the crowds. That would probably be a good thing too.
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888naff
why not, visit where you like.
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TheVripper
Wait... there's an emperor?!
You need an empire before you can have an emperor, hehe
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mechadamuramu
YES
Its been long enough for Pearl Harbor.
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Robusta
USNinJapan2
why shouldn't a US president also visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
I guess (judging by your nickname!) you may have less than a balanced view on the subject, but I am inclined to feel that the informed international consensus may be that while the attack on Pearl Harbour was indeed an unprovoked outrage, the A-Bomb attacks constitute the single greatest episode of disregard for innocent humans in history insofar as so many were (knowingly!) killed by one act.
We at last have the less gung-ho president we have been hoping for, and American presidents have a duty to come to terms with the past, present and future consequences of the nations own international ambitions.
Not that it would help the souls of children fried more than 60 years ago....
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sailwind
I was stationed on a warship homeported at Pearl. One of my finest memories was of one day when I was the Petty Officer of The Watch during the Eight to Twelve watch. At 8 A.M sharp colors is held. The American flag is hoisted and the Watch time salutes smartly while the National Ensign is rising to full staff, the salute is held until the National Anthem is over.
The Japanese also do this same tradition, as all other Nations Navies do. In the case of another nations ship that is visiting the host nation. The host nations national anthem is played first, then the visiting nations anthem is played. Both countries watch teams hold the salute until the anthems are complete and only then do they drop the salute and 'carry-on'.
I'm going to try to paint a picture for you as to what happened that day. My ship was moored inboard to the pier. She was a 'small boy' a Fast Frigate or FFG, outboard of us and nested along side was a Japanese Destroyer also a 'small boy' roughly the same size as my ship.
Both our quarterdecks were located on the 'fantail' or for the landlubbers here, the flat end in the back. Our ships were side to side. Right before colors goes down, the watch team assembles on the flight deck ready to go through this tradition. As I was getting into position to render the salute, I looked to my left at my Japanese counterpart getting ready to do the same thing. Just beyond him and across the loch and well within eyesight was the USS Arizona memorial. They also raise the flag at 8 A.M sharp above her as she is still 'in commission' as an honor to the sailors that perished that day.
Colors went down our flag was raised in unision with the Rising Sun ensign right next to us and the Arizona's flag raised at the same time.
As I was holding the salute as our respective countries national anthems were played, I look to my left and I may not be able to do this justice in this post or my limited writing skills, but I'll try to describe the feeling. Our flag was lined up perfectly with the Japanese Flag, which in turn was lined up perfectly with the USS Arizona's flag which at that very moment the sun rose over the Wainaie mountian range ( the very same range the Japanese used as a navigation landmark to guide her attackers to Pearl.
I thought to myself "Who would've believed that 60 years this would ever happen our warships side by side and to be in thet perfect place to witness colors between our two nations now at peace".........I've carried that day as one of the most profound in my Naval Career. I only hope the Emporer could also be so lucky to have an experience like that when he visits.
USNinJapan2
I have also visited Hiroshima and have paid my respect there. I'm not agaisn't a U.S President paying his respect there also. Though I have to ask this question would a visit by a U.S head of State just be a reminder that the Japanese are a defeated nation and that maybe it would be better not to rub salt in that wound?
They are a very proud people and rightly so, I think that aspect should also be taken into consideration as to why no President has made the gesture yet.
Long post, but I'm glad I had the chance to write it on this subject.
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sailwind
One last thing...Apologies for all the typo's and bad spelling. Was in a hurry!!!
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USNinJapan2
Robusta
I'm afraid you've misread/misunderstood my post. I personally wouldn't have a problem if the POTUS visited Hiroshima and Nagasaki and nowhere in my post did I say anything to the contrary. goodDonkey said in his post that if the Japanese Emperor were to visit Pearl Harbor then the US President would be duty bound to reciprocate by visiting Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Where I disagree with him is that I don't equate the Emperor, a cultural figurehead who is not a head-of-state, with the President of the United States who is the elected leader of his country, and therefore I wouldn't consider their visits reciprocal in nature. In my opinion for that to happen the Prime Minister of Japan would be the one who officially visits Pearl Harbor to pay his respects.
As for your guess that I probably don't share your evidently "balanced" opinion regarding the US' use of atomic weapons in WWII, you would be correct. I believe the dropping of the two A-bombs was the most efficient and the appropriate tactical choice that the US military could have made at the time with the goal of swiftly ending and winning the war. Yes, the decision killed many people in an unprecedented manner and fried many children as you so colorfully put it, but that was the objective of war (on both sides) in that day and age. People nowadays have gotten too used to the media-friendly limited military engagements that have become the norm in recent years and forget that back then countries engaged in total wars in which there was no such thing as collateral damage. But Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not the subject of this thread so I will comment on them no more here...
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rranta
I think it would be a great idea. A final smoothing out of hard feelings. They still exist and I think having The Emperor visit would be the right thing to do.
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LFRAgain
Sailwind,
That was an excellent post. I couldn't have picked a better example myself of the importance and significance of Japan's and America's current friendship. Thanks for the good read.
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OssanAmerica
Sorry but the United States doesn't feel that way. Hope you feel better.
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OssanAmerica
I'd say looking at Japanese history from 1945 to 2009, that the "Emperor", or Japan as a nation has indeed learned something. Now perhaps you can educate me about which particular nations are officially requesting a "signed and sealed written apology" from the Japanese government, because I don't know of any and that includes the PRC and ROK.
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USARonin
Yes, it's a good idea.
And forget all that PC apology bidness. The war ended four generations ago.
Stop beatin' the Japanese people down and get on with your own life.
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Jigg88
i said no because...
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soothsayer
Japan has Okinawa, Ogasawara, Honolulu, Guam, Saipan, Cairns, etc. hehe
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Weasel
Go on and let him visit, he isn't going to hurt anyone. The war's been over for a long time. It's fine to remember it in your head, it's not when you choose to live it in your heart.
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Robusta
A strong argument against his visit would be if it were subsequently used to further any nationalist cause.
As the nationalists in Japan are thankfully the subject of ridicule, it's very unlikely.
I was also wondering if perhaps that during the Emperor's visit to Pearl the government could issue a polite request for a timetabled withdrawal of US troops from Japan, a la Iraq?
It would be cool - two withdrawals for the price of one!!
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GW
As for whether the visit is worth it, it will all depend on what the emperor is allowed to say & do, imo the potential to screw up isnt worth the risk, but it will probably come & go & everyone will be wondering what the point of the visit was because the emperor didnt really say or do anything, but thats how the handlers want it
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SuperLib
Why shouldn't he visit it? Besides, it will get coverage and that means Japanese people will learn more about their role in the war.
It's also good as a statement to reaffirm the positive relationship Japan and the US have today. To go from what we had then to what we have now is pretty amazing, in my opinion. I get more mud thrown at me by Europeans, our allies in the war, than Japan, our enemies.
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