Thursday February 16, 2012

JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Do you think suicide is an honorable way to atone for a crime or scandal?

Poll May. 24, 2008 - 10:59AM JST ( 25 )

Order by Time Order by Popularity

25 Comments

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ZurgMay. 24, 2008 - 12:31PM JST

Suicide is a lonely way out. It is cowardly. It is desperation. It is selfish. There is nothing good about suicide.
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rjd_jrMay. 24, 2008 - 02:12PM JST

I have to disagree, I think suicide is an honorable way to atone for a crime and scandal. It is neither cowardly nor selfish IMHO. The reason why I say this is the world headline is filled with white collar criminal after criminal that get away with murder and either get a slap on the wrist (few months in federal camp) or an outright reward (C.E.O. of countrywide for example, a most contemptible "human being."). They laugh at their crimes and their victims. In the end these crooks are richer than before. What kind of "justice" is that?

To kill one self I think takes a certain amount of 'courage.' I would never want to do that because quite frankly I'm too scared of dying period. Self preservation is what I am all about. So to take that ultimate step, to rob yourself of your own life, is taking into consideration that you don't deserve to live because you caused your victims to suffer. That is not selfish, that is being unselfish.

Yes it is rather unconventional way of my thinking on this, but again when crooks all over the world commit crimes and flaunt their noses at their victims, to commit suicide is indeed honorable.
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pathatMay. 24, 2008 - 04:52PM JST

rjd jr: I do not completely agree with what you say, but it is an impressive post nonetheless.
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Zen_BuilderMay. 24, 2008 - 05:02PM JST

Ok, take another viewpoint.

Lets say you got your family into a real pickle, status and financially. You committing suicide allows them to go free of blame/shame and at the same time provides them with enough funds(Life insurance, etc) to move on with their life's.

So by taking your life you might be giving your family a helping hand to move on or you could still be alive dragging them down further.

So taking your own life might be an ultimate sacrifice due to your love and concern about the well-being of your family.

Like I said another viewpoint not endorsing either.
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mechadamuramuMay. 24, 2008 - 05:45PM JST

I can see why many people would say "its not for me" but I don't see why someone would say it is "dishonorable" to commit suicide. I'm sure we'd all agree that if the person had enough self restraint to stop their bad behavior and then reform and help do good deeds with the time they have left in their life then that would be even better than suicide. I also feel it could be possible to think that based on your own temptations and past behavior that you know that you could never do these nice things, and that in a single moment of clear thought and sobriety you decide to force yourself to stop doing evil things the only way you can.

I personally couldn't ever commit suicide, but I do feel it is honorable. Taking my own life is one thing, but I feel this same "self sacrificing honor" in other aspects of life. Admitting to your transgressions or faults and doing all you can to stop them feels great, and if you can better others by your own death, then why not?
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WMDMay. 25, 2008 - 07:07AM JST

I don't look at suicide from the viewpoint of whether it's honorable or not. But certainly if you're facing years in prison for some crime, suicide may be considered preferable. And I think I would rather commit suicide than be old, living in poverty and misery, there's no point in going on. The suicide just leaves the planet a little earlier than he/she would have anyway. We're all going to die, just a matter of the date. So why continue if you're not enjoying it and it has no meaning to you??
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OssanULTRAMay. 25, 2008 - 08:08AM JST

I'm not sure if it's honorable or not. But I do know that if done quickly it certainly saves us taxpayers alot of money.
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rajakumarMay. 25, 2008 - 08:44AM JST

Suicides is by suicidal characters, is caused by their own closed minds. Suicides involves persons that are in dilemma that needs healing.

Healings are not given by correct persons,leading to the person's dilemma seem bigger than it actually is. The dilemma is confused to be bigger than his god given human life.

We are all going to die, but we cannot take our own life. Even animals die without suicides, why should human take their own lifes.

If we take our own life, means that we are not learning enough about life that has been given to us to learn every day.

We not appreciating the days we have to learn more and more about the value of human life.

How can being not sucessful/rich be a reason for suicide.

A person who commit suicide does not have missions/goals,this is the problem.

Having even a simple mission will make a person better and stronger mentally.

These suicidal characters are not reading enough or reading the wrong stuff, to find out about their valuable human god given life.

The chance has been given to all humans to excel to no limits in all fields of discipline spiritual/material.

Person who commit suicides are hide and seek characters who never have friends.

They are person who hide their real feelings and never open up to their close companions/others.

They hide their real honest thoughts and are unwilling to share their thoughts with others/friends/families.

They play the lonely game of hide and seek, and do not want to get found. People who get found, are ones who achieved their goals and become person who are very functional in society.

Before people get found, they have to get really lost.

Dyfunctional families/dyfunctional society ways create dyfunctional people who become suicidal. These persons become lost via their hide/seek emotional games that no one knows truly.

As for suicides being good for their families via insurance is absolute low mindedness.

Why is social status the reason for suicide. This also makes no logic.

Anyone and everyone will lose his social status one day and retire. All people need to find new missions when status is lost or when they retire.

Nothing good spiritually comes out of dying via suicides. Spiritual lack of knowledge is also a cause for suicidal actions. Sprituality of persons should increase with age.

Of cause nowadays we find some old people not caring at all for spiritual life in old age. A person becomes what he thinks about, thinking suicide is really the most low mindedness in our thinking.

Adolf hitler character, became a most crazy suicide person, when he lost his really cruel 70 million victims war.

Mostly Hitler's generals and Hitler himself were alcoholic addicts to numb their conciousness for their killings.

Guess humans have freedom choice given by god to go higher or lower.
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ambrosiaMay. 25, 2008 - 01:49PM JST

First, I'm not talking about suicide committed by people who are depressed. Everyone gets depressed sometimes but to be depressed from time to time and to be depressed as an illness are two different things so I'm talking about suicide as a way to atone for a crime or scandal, not because the pain of depression is so strong it is physical. So, in addressing the question, I guess I'm just not sure how suicide equals atonement. Suicide is an end. Atonement to me is owning up to what you did and trying to make it right or serving time for what you did. Suicide does neither. Yes, there is the issue of your family getting the insurance money if you've got yourself in a financial pickle but that way of thinking is to my mind, an encouragement of the shoganai, no second chances type of thinking. Yes, going bankrupt is definitely traumatic and yes, facing a public scandal is horrible but facing up to those problems and trying to make them right is a show of strength of character to me that suicide is not and never can be. Your family may get the insurance money but if you have kids you've left them with the idea that there is no way out of serious problems but to kill yourself. If you have a spouse you've left him or her to face the rest of their life alone. Yes, we're all going to die but again I'm not talking about the clinically depressed. Life doesn't have to stop or stop being enjoyable because you've hit a bump in the road. As for what animals do or don't do, I don't see the relevance. Dogs lick themselves in public and I doubt rajakumar would be advocating we follow that example.

I remember an article in the Japan Times a few years ago about a support group for family members (children) of people who'd committed suicide. I remember from that article the shame the children faced being children of a parent who'd committed suicide, yes even in a culture that supposedly accepts suicide, the anger of the children, the unanswered questions they were left with and the wish that their parent had tried to find another solution to the problem that drove him or her to suicide. That made an impression on me and made me realize that even in Japan, where suicide can often be portrayed in a romantic light, it is incredibly painful for those left behind and many of most of the left behind do not see the honor in being parentless, childless or spouseless.
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NessieMay. 25, 2008 - 02:05PM JST

The best way is to abase yourself to those you've wronged and tell them that your life is theirs. Or devote yourself to an ascetic life of good works for a certain period. That's much harder than offing yourself, and it helps people while purifying oneself. Win-win.
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okapakeMay. 25, 2008 - 06:07PM JST

I dunno about the money aspect, but most insurance policies, at least in the U.S., don't pay off on suicides.
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caponeMay. 25, 2008 - 07:25PM JST

not at all...its a cowards way out
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jinjapanMay. 26, 2008 - 07:56AM JST

although i don't feel suicide is a bad thing, when used to escape some wrong doing is wrong. rjdjr states above that white collar criminals just get basically a slap on the wrist. this is mainly because they drag everyone else down with them . they should just accept what they've done as wrong & as they say " do the crime do the time" . or if you are going to rat on others because they have done wrong as well, then do not plea bargain. as for suicide, if someone is not mentally ill & they feel they've just had enough of life, or they are in such pain from a serious illness, it should be their prerogative what to do with their own life. so, if they want to "move on" then so be it.
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HughgarseMay. 26, 2008 - 01:08PM JST

Lets say you got your family into a real pickle, status and financially. You committing suicide allows them to go free of blame/shame and at the same time provides them with enough funds(Life insurance, etc) to move on with their life's.

Most life insurance policies are void if someone commits suicide, so leaving a family in a worst pickle is an absolutely selfish thing to do...
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ambrosiaMay. 26, 2008 - 01:48PM JST

hughgarse: Most life insurance policies are void if someone commits suicide, so leaving a family in a worst pickle is an absolutely selfish thing to do...

That's not true in Japan which is why people here do it for financial reasons. Not it says *defer payments *for two or three years, not that the family won't get it.

Financial concerns are cited in one-fifth of suicide notes; almost half of all suicides are unemployed. Some take their lives so that surviving family members can collect insurance, which has led insurance firms to defer payments for two or three years as a deterrent
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ambrosiaMay. 26, 2008 - 01:49PM JST

Sorry, I mean "note it says..."
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BadseyMay. 27, 2008 - 01:46AM JST

people that never had to work hard for something (anything) will always try to take the easy way out.

-and miles to go before I sleep.
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PuffinMuffinMay. 27, 2008 - 09:37AM JST

honorable? Why put honorable into the matter?
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0solracMay. 27, 2008 - 02:13PM JST

I don't really know how honorable commiting suicide is. But as someone said here, putting the life in the person/s' hands is more than likely a better way of restoring honor. Sometimes to them you offing your head in front of them or any other form of killing youself may bring grattitude to them in some twisted way. But thats not to say that everyone wants every dumb idiot who decided to launder millions of moolah for their or their family's own benefit to off themselves as a way to say sorry to everyone the weakling duped. Same goes for the idiot who went psychotic and decided to shoot up an entire group of people; and the person who just plain ended up shooting grandma at the store because he "accidently" tripped on the trigger.

Seriously, I don't think Suicide is an honorable way, however no matter the situation... you really don't get to have much of a say in how you live your life after you've done something pretty retarded as stealing money from other people just to make your's even better. It's really in the hands of the people. And maybe in some nations they do say "Yes, you should die to restore your or your familie's honor. Here, heres a machete, turn your life into a pool of blood at my feet" or possibly, "Yes, you will die, but we're going to help. Heres a noose, put it over your head and we'll kick the chair." However in other instances, the victims wouldn't love anything more than to pay to see this person put into time-out and either have them rehabilitated to be a more functional or at least better person... or leave them in time-out for their natural living lives so that the victim can have some satisfaction knowing that this person is rotting away to the core and hating every bit of it. On the bright side of things if the person is in time-out the family and friends (if any) can see them for however long they have left to live; or the victim could visit (not too sure if this is allowed.. but ehh..) and remind the dishonorable person that their suffering is making the victim feel much more better than them commiting suicide.

So all in all... honor isn't something thats always restored by commiting suicide, but more along the lines of something being earned by atoning for a crime in the way that the victim/people choose to be fitting.

If Hitler hadn't commited suicide (if thats true) we might have benifited in some twisted/educational way if he had actually lived and hopefully captured and not shot on sight (although maybe hearing of him being shot might have been a more gratifying ending for others).
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0solracMay. 27, 2008 - 02:18PM JST

on a side thought... does restoring honor border along the lines of pride?
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presto345May. 27, 2008 - 09:49PM JST

Absolutely not. We are talking about atonement for crimes and scandals. The latter is somewhat elusive I must say. Killing oneself as atonement for a crime? Rarely happens I think. The reason would be more like a means to escape the consequences of the crime(s). Not being able to go on living in an environment where people point fingers, where you can't find employment anymore, no respect, no love, no meaning in life. It's no atonement, it's the action of an individual who cannot face the responsibilities of his actions.
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OhioDonnaMay. 28, 2008 - 12:41AM JST

Suicide is a selfish act.
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CrucadesMay. 28, 2008 - 07:03AM JST

Suicide is indeed an honourable way of atonement for a crime, provided that the mindset of the person is one of deepest regret, however in many other cases, such of that of a deranged killer, its a simple way of escaping a punishment which would cause harm to its comfort.
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caponeMay. 28, 2008 - 06:28PM JST

pay back the money you stole, apologize for the lies you told, make sure the people you hurt are fully compensated...THEN kill yourself...that would be real atonement
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rekrabmMay. 29, 2008 - 01:49AM JST

It is much better for society to have someone face their failure or wrongdoing and put their effort into making amends rather than to try to escape from their obligation. They will then be providing an example of virtuous behaviour for society which will help the society advance.
This requires cultural support, however.