Sunday May 27, 2012

Order by Time Order by Popularity

48 Comments

Login to comment

  • 0

    Mark_McCracken

    It seems doing so would be unconstitutional. Article 19: Freedom of thought and conscience shall not be violated.

  • 0

    Farmboy

    No, but I think doing beneficial things that one can be proud of should be part of a country's political curriculum.

  • -1

    JapanHusker

    Teaching it is one thing; forcing it is another. As a U.S. citizen, I fully support having the children stand and recite the Pledge every morning. What I do not support is forcing it on them.

    It should be explained to them what it means and then given a choice to stand and recite or not. Forcing teachers (in Japan) to sing it is not right.

    Also, taking away the Pledge (again, in America) because it offends some people is total B.S. as well. People are too sensitive these days - a bunch of crybaby, whiners.

  • 0

    retaliator

    "People are too sensitive these days - a bunch of crybaby, whiners."

    This!

  • 0

    NetNinja

    No, it's not. As a matter of fact, If I printed out the syllabus for each course this public schoold has, no where would find anything printed that dictates the teaching of Kimigayo.

    We don't have to teach patriotism. It's there in the heart or not.

  • 0

    Newsman

    I want teachers to teach my children skills and knowledge. Patriotism is neither.

  • 0

    gonemad

    Patriotism is not a value either. Teaching patriotism is akin to brainwashing children into feeling as members of an artificial group which they have had no freedom to select by themselves. It will turn into destructive nationalism for children which don't develop enough self-esteem.

    Patriotism has no place in school curricula, just like religious proselytization or being a fan of the local baseball club. Schools should teach about the concepts of these things, though.

  • 0

    DenTok2009

    To love one's country is patriotism. Take an interest in government, be proud of does, support your military/athletes/teams... I don't see this happening. I work with Japanese people in their teens, 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's. I'd say the teens through 30's are not interested in government. There was one guy in his 40's who chattered about people who were running for office. He was pretty informed about what the strengths and weaknesses were and what he thought Japan needs. He wasn't humming "Kimigayo" but I'd say he was proud to be Japanese and interested in the past and present and gave a darn about the future.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    I don't see anything wrong which teaching "Patriotism" perse, but all to often it is hijacked to each "Jingoism".

  • 0

    Zenny11

    teach.

  • 0

    JapanHusker

    retaliator at 01:00 PM JST - 6th June "People are too sensitive these days - a bunch of crybaby, whiners." This!

    What are you talking about? I'm not whining. I am merely stating my opinion to the question asked - trying to take it from both sides of the spectrum. I stated that although I think it should be taught, it should not be forced - nor should it be banned.

    You sir (Ma'am? Both?), however, seem to be one of the angry liberal whiners that I outlined above.

    And why on earth should it even bother you (or, any of the other negative posters on this topic) if patriotism is taught in school, as long as it isn't forced?

    I also think that both creation AND evolution should be taught in schools, letting students and their parents decide what they choose to believe in. But no, the liberal, atheist haters want only what THEY believe in to be taught. Typical. So far left, they are neo-right.

  • 0

    Newsman

    Teachers deal in facts. If the facts justify loving one's country, so be it. However, here should be no allowance made for jingoistic mawkish sentimental blind-eye-turned-to-uncomfortable-reality garbage masquerading as truth. That stuff should be hauled out of the classroom and tossed onto the same rotting pile as alchemy, phrenology, and creationism.

  • 0

    cleo

    I also think that both creation AND evolution should be taught in schools, letting students and their parents decide what they choose to believe in. But no, the liberal, atheist haters want only what THEY believe in to be taught

    Why is it these days that anyone who disagrees is labelled a 'hater'? Why can't they just be someone with a different opinion?

  • 0

    hatsoff

    Quote: " Teaching it is one thing; forcing it is another. As a U.S. citizen, I fully support having the children stand and recite the Pledge every morning. What I do not support is forcing it on them.

    It should be explained to them what it means and then given a choice to stand and recite or not. Forcing teachers (in Japan) to sing it is not right.

    Also, taking away the Pledge (again, in America) because it offends some people is total B.S. as well. "

    I wonder about this. If everyone is given the choice to stand and recite or not, and the majority - or all - decide not to stand/recite, would it then be acceptable to take away the Pledge? Or would it be forced on a class of unwilling students? We are under an illusion if we think that we grew up anywhere without any kind of brainwashing, from what we see as basic manners, to democracy being better than communism, to what we view as common sense, to red means stop and green means go. The teaching of history in schools is almost never neutral - the "British" (English) history I was taught would surely vary wildly from the way the Irish and Scottish view the same events. And as Zenny said, patriotism can all too easily become jingoism.

  • 0

    hatsoff

    ... But if done right, teaching patriotism COULD teach the difference between that and jingoism. The Far Right in the UK consistently and wilfully parade jingoism under the guise of patriotism, and the passive ignorant never learn the difference, and everything ends up in the "with us or against us" cul-de-sac.

  • 0

    BessonovYan

    All depends on the training program. Now Japan to be under strong cultural influence of the USA. From the point of view of the Russian person the western culture is primitive and harmful. Therefore it is necessary to compensate this harmful influence and to create protective spiritual basis that the person has been less subject harmful cultural influence of the Western civilization. However it is important to understand that politicians of Japan have made many errors in 20 century. It is very important to realize logically these errors and not to repeat them in the future. Banker Rothschild has told: "if you want to ruin the country force it to be at war". On June, 24th 1941 New York the Time has published the statement of the senator, the future US president Trumen: "If we see that Germany we should help Russia and if Russia we should help Germany wins wins, and thus let they kill as much as possible..." . In August of 1945 Harrys Trumen was the US president. Also it is important to understand that the USA exploit errors of politicians of Japan with 1945.

  • 0

    HonestDictator

    I don't think patriotism should be "taught" either. As with many countries history, when the good accomplishments of one's country encourages a citizen to feel some type of patriotic support then thats just fine, but teaching it out of intention isn't what I'd approve of. As an American there are many things that my country has accomplished that makes me proud to have been born here. There are also the current and past problems that I'm not so happy about that the US government (and historical situations) have created or continue to support. So patriotism comes naturally when a citizen has something they think is good that has come from their country.

    I remember a long long time ago until the 90s I always had to stand and say the pledge of allegience in elementary school but I don't recall ever having to do so in middle school (junior high) on up.

  • 0

    Tamarama

    No, definitely not. The school curriculum in my country has aspects to it that are designed to foster a sense of pride and patriotism through the study of history and culture, but to actually sanction a course to teach that directly is tantamount to indocterination in my books. To stand for the anthem at formal events is fine, but a course is a bad idea.

  • 1

    Badge213

    Be PROUD of your country. Reminds me when I'm watching the Olympics. You often see players from countries that you know have a snowballs chance in hell of winning, but they fight and are proud to represent.

    Depends on how you teach it of course.

  • 0

    FireyRei

    There is nothing wrong with having pride in your country.

    People voting No, are either Chinese, Korean, or anti-Japan in some way.

    I am not pro-Japan, I am against having no pride in your country.

    The question is not about having too much pride, it is simply about having pride or not. Japanese people in general have little to no pride in being Japanese, often use the phrase 'Because I'm Japanese' to excuse bad behaviour or ignorance.

    Being patriotic is something Americans boldly proclaim, so why can't the Japanese? Because you don't like them, period.

  • 0

    lucabrasi

    The question doesn't even make sense grammatically. 'Patriotism' is a feeling, as are anxiety, boredom and anger; you can't teach any of them, they are experiences.

    Sure, you can try to instil patriotism, but a swift run-down of the countries who have tried hardest to do that doesn't make for very happy reading: imperial Britain, Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, current North Korea.

    Yuck.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    'Patriotism' is not a subject. It is instilled by example, and through good leadership. Japan has no good examples at the moment, so people who stand out or try to do their own thing are getting pounded down and forced to do something at the risk of their jobs and/or fines, etc. You cannot FORCE patriotism, and that is what Japanese nationalists fail to understand, making them no better than the reasons why people don't WANT to stand up to the flag or sing the national anthem.

  • 0

    cleo

    There is nothing wrong with having pride in your country.

    Nothing wrong at all. I don't think anyone has said there is.

    Being patriotic is something Americans boldly proclaim, so why can't the Japanese? Because you don't like them, period.

    mmm, no, I like (most) Japanese people a lot, one of the reasons being that they do not go around pushing their 'patriotism' in your face. I've never heard a Japanese person try to excuse bad behaviour with 'Because I'm Japanese'. I have heard people of other nationalities try to excuse all kinds of rubbish, from general loutishness to racism to full-scale war, with 'Our country/town/tribe/race/religion/team/gang is the best'.

  • 0

    borscht

    I find most Japanese are borderline nationalistic. With statements such as

    "(famous person) is good at (activity) because he's Japanese."

    Not because he or she worked hard or practiced with the best but because "he's Japanese." Or,

    "I'm good at (activity) because I'm Japanese." This is sometimes coupled with "Oh, you can use chopsticks!"

    What a Patriotism Class will include is the problem. If it is "We Japanese have never done anything bad to any other country" then there is a problem. If it is "We Japanese invented/created/refined/discovered/are experts in..." then it is less obnoxious.

  • 0

    ursramamohan

    I am afraid time might come when people ask why should we respect Mother and Father :(

  • 0

    kujiranikusuki

    patriotism started 50% of the worlds wars. the other 50% religion. both are double edged swords. Its important to have both faith and support of a social system you belive in and can stand behind. But look at the USA. People dont even know what being an American is anymore. It has become black vs whites. Jobs and no jobs. Immigration or no immigration. America has become TOO much of a melting pot to stand for almost anything anymore. Freedom sure. Still the greatest chance of success in the world (yeah china has more million and billionaires but not PER CAPTIA!!! they also have one of the highest poverty rates in the world). America used to wage wars in the name of freedom and decomocry, but people cant even tell why we wage war any more. revenge for 911? oil? freedom? Safetfy from WMDs. Who knows any more. What has America become. It has lost its identity since I was born in 81. So whats to teach? and what about Japan. Whats to teach? Japanese are still the supreme race??? What about that they F$$$ed up and tried to take over the world? They may teach patriotism but in the same breath they say that America started the war. so teach patriotism at the cost of what? truth and realistic understanding of the world around you?

  • 0

    Zenny11

    I think many people mistake Jingoism for Patriotism.

    Jingoism is the extreme and dangerous one, IMO & IME.

  • 0

    Xeno23

    Wait, what? Um, I kinda think this whole thing has already been done, no? Like, Germany and Japan in the 1930's, Great Britain in the 1880s, the USA and USSR in the 40's and 50's? What were the results of all that? Don't we know what happens when Patriotism is taught in schools by now? I should think this question has been quite adequately settled... the lessons of history, and what not.

  • 0

    cleo

    I am afraid time might come when people ask why should we respect Mother and Father :(

    No need to teach that to those who have been brought up by loving, caring parents, they took in the lesson with their mother's milk and it's in their bones. As for those parents who aren't loving and caring - the ones who abuse their kids, fail to feed and clothe them properly, leave them in overheated cars while they play pachinko or the slots, spend the school dinner money on the geegees....why should anyone respect them? They've done nothing to deserve it.

    You can put the same argument back onto patriotism, mutatis mutandis.

  • 0

    BlackOut

    i was taught so much idea of "patriotism" back in my early school years, and i turn out to hate my own country and most of its culture as early as when i was in height school!! that was one of the main reason i left my country and never thing of looking back. i don't know if that can call patriotism?!

  • 0

    kujiranikusuki

    cleo always with the perfect answers to everything... Show me PROOF that Tojos paretns were mean to him. Show me proof that Hilters and Stalins paretns where bad people! I would love to visit the closed little box you live in and call the world.

  • 0

    cleo

    kujiranikusuki, you didn't understand my post at all, did you?

  • 0

    Zenny11

    I think kujiranikusuki here is right.

    No evidence that the parents of Adolf Schickelgruber were mean to him, etc.

    Patrionism is not just about feeling good about your country and defending it and its goverment all costs(that is called Jingoism).

    A good patriot will support his country and also acknowledge the good and bad it did in the past and currently. That support is NOT unconditional as he will strive for the good of the country and also includes countering the goverment if it runs counter.

  • 0

    cleo

    Zenny, no one is saying that anyone's parents were mean to anyone. ursramamohan seemed to be suggesting that respecting the flag (or whatever it is that patriots respect) is as natural and obvious as respecting one's parents. I was trying to point out that neither respect for parents nor respect for one's country is unconditional - it grows out of one's relationship with one's parents on the one hand, and one's country on the other. If they don't deserve respect, they shouldn't expect it. If they want it, they need to earn it. As such, neither is something that can or should be taught in school.

    No one, apart from the whale-eater who has totally gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick, is suggesting anything about Tojo's, Hitler's or Stalin's parents.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Cleo.

    Patriotism is about ones respect and support for the well-being of ones country. Not sure how parents and family tie in to that.

    Granted patriotism per-se can't be taught but true history of a country can be taught and by understanding of that history and what drove it respect and support(both combined make patriotism) for a nation will arise.

    As I posted before vary narrow line to have it fall into Jingoism, care needs to be taken.

    Said that many radical views do come from parents as the kids grow up with those and think they are the norm(those can be racist, religious, political, etc).

    Just my view.

  • 0

    cleo

    Not sure how parents and family tie in to that.

    sigh They don't.

    true history of a country can be taught

    But the question isn't about teaching history, it's about teaching patriotism (which we agree, can't be done).

  • 0

    Foxie

    As long as God saves the Queen and I don't have to do it, it's fine. Patriotism is ok to be taught but nationalism isn't. Let's not confuse those: Patriotism is merely a feeling of admiration for a way of life. Most nationalists assume that their country is better than any other, whereas patriots believe that their country is one of the best and can be improved in many ways. Patriots tend to believe in friendly relations with other countries while some nationalists don’t.

  • 1

    Frungy

    Hang on a second. I think one does need to distinguish between "patriotism" and "good manners". I agree that if teaching patriotism was an official agenda at schools we'd see incidents like the government-endorsed suicides in Okinawa being covered up... oh, wait, that's already going on. Okay, well at least they're not censoring stuff on an international level, like covering up the Japanese Nanking rapes and murders... oooops... Okay, well I guess that answers the question on whether teaching "patriotism" is part of the official syllabus in Japan.

    What I do think is important though is to teach politeness and that it is good manners to at least, for example, stand during the national anthem, bow to the flag, not spit on it or eat it, etc. These aren't patriotic concerns, but rather simply good manners because not standing, not bowing or active disrespect to the flag implies an equal level of contempt for the other citizens the flag represents. It's not about "the nation", it's about "other people". I think that's a distinction that people frequently forget.

  • 0

    taj

    "Be PROUD of your country."
    If your country is something to be proud of.

    And if it's not, endeavor to change it.

    But if your life depends on standing around singing the praises of whatever leader / dictator etc. runs the show, we'll all understand. And be thankful that it isn't us.

    Pledging to a flag on a daily basis creeps me out.

  • 1

    Maria

    Cleo -I think you're being messed with.

    Being proud of your country's successes, being knowledgable about its failures, being aware of what your country's leaders are doing and have don, following what your country is doing nationally and internationally... these things are important.

    Being "taught" patriotism suggests a blind following - bowing and singing and saluting by rote, supporting what goes on no matter what, without correct information... these things are NOT desirable in school!

  • 0

    cleo

    I agree with Maria. On all counts.

  • 0

    Sawada2

    Patriotism is about ones respect and support for the well-being of ones country, which builds morals and respect and dignity toward others. When I was growing up in Japan as a young man there was much honor and respect toward our parents and elderly, I remember being taught about the old ways and how respect was one that is taught by our elders and handed down through the ages. Today in Japan I just want to cry, I do not see the respect from the youth, or the Patriotism that is missing in the hearts of the young, there are only a few who still believe in Japan, I remember how we were taught by our Father to always respect our mother and our sisters and our Family and to respect everyone as you would want to be treated, and to respect the authorities appointed above us like the police, and our elected officals. I remember when people needed help and people went out of there way to help no matter what the problem was. I see the destruction of our wonderful country from within because "WE" have not shown the Patriotism to our youth, Yes I am guility also but we as a country we must get back to the way we used to be before it is to late.

  • 0

    Disillusioned

    I had to vote, NO. There is a huge difference between patriotism and brainwashing with BS. North Korea is a good example of this and until Japan changes their history textbooks to tell the truth about the past two hundred years of totalitarianism throughout Asia it is brainwashing, not patriotism.

  • 0

    TheQuestion

    This is a weird one to vote on. It really boils down to how they are teaching this 'patriotism'. When my brother's kids come to stay with me during the summer we learn a lot of history, religion, and politics. To me patriotism is understanding what your nation stands for, celebrating in it's triumphs, and learning from it's follies. I have the distinct honor of teaching them about our family's old home of Cuba in much the same way. I believe patriotism is measured by one's ability to love their country despite it's flaws rather than by one's ability to ignore them. In that reguard I feel patriotism should be taught, but considering how poorly government run schools tend to muck it up I can't very well vote yes on this topic. When I was in school being patriotic was saying the pledge every day and writing reports about Custer's heroic last stand, and to be honest those little state proddings actually only serve to dilute real patriotism in favor of the ability to bark on command. The educational model is a lot different over here to say the least but having never actually attended a school here I can't pass a reliable judgement on how they approach the subject here. All I know is what I read about and what I hear from friends and co-workers.

  • 1

    Iwitness

    The whole question is pure folly. Its a trap too. Most people cannot tell the difference between patriotism, nationalism, jingoism and support of government and war no matter how corrupt.

    In no way should the school system be the propaganda workshop of the government, and that is exactly what happens when there is an official proclamation to teach patriotism at schools.

    If anyone says Japanese in general don't love Japan, they are blind. Japanese are proud to be Japanese and they love their country. The thing is they just don't really know it till they go overseas and then can't wait to get home. Even then they are not loud and in your face about it like Americans are and that is a GOOD thing. But the politicians don't like it. They want a bunch a morons who THINK they are patriots like so many Americans, so they can have an army of robotic dipsticks to support their silly crap.

    How about everybody just do their jobs, learn their studies, shut up and go home? We really don't need these stupid symbols and chants. Plenty of things I love about my country and certain things I have pride in concerning my country. But I really don't need a silly flag or song, and I don't want my school trying to brainwash my kid.

  • 0

    jinjapan

    as the teachers in japan are government employees, i'd assume they'd have to teach patriotism if they're told to do so by their employers. & i'm pretty sure a govt., any govt., would like it taught.

  • 0

    kamakuradude

    A modern definition of patriotism as we know it would be to the level of those who cheer for their country: sports teams, space programs, recovering from natural and man-made disasters. To actually "teach" patriotism seems as simple as recognizing what is good about the country. That's not scary, like say, nuclear melt-through. On a side note, it sure would be nice to see Japanese speak up for a change instead of hiding in the shadows laughing uncomfortably.

  • 0

    shinaykahn

    Definitely not. Patriotism is something you are born with, in can't be learned, everything else is just brainwash.

Back to top

Login to leave a comment

OR

Follow us

Facebook
Twitter

More in Poll

View all

View all