Should Japanese language ability be a factor in determining the maximum length of stay on visas for foreigners?

Sunday 11th May, 05:15 AM JST

Latest 15 of 50 Total Comments Show All

Sarge at 10:49 PM JST - 14th May

Heck no! If English is good enough for me, by golly it's good enough for the rest of the world! Tee hee!
usaexpat at 10:53 PM JST - 14th May

Language ability means a lot less than employability. I'm with Slayer_99us most of the Japanese I worked with and associated with in the US had very poor english skills. They had job skills however that their employer's valued.
Damax6 at 11:26 PM JST - 14th May

ohhhhh geeezzzz usssssss, you gotta learn the DAMN language if you want residency in ANY COUNTRY!!!!!. it`s the same in the states, ENGLISH IS THE MAIN LANGUAGE , JAPAN IS JAPANESE ..DUhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! why in the hell should we ask the japanese to understand US...THIS IS THEIR COUNTRY!!!!! common sense...learn the friggin language and live here peacefully and get the respect of the japanese people by your ability to survive here, damn i cannot believe that people lack basic common sense on this one
Sarge at 11:33 PM JST - 14th May

"you gotta learn the DAMN langauge if you want residency in ANY COUNTRY!!!! it's the same in the states, ENGLISH IS THE MAIN LANGUAGE"

Ha ha ha! That must be why I see and hear Spanish everywhere I go in the States these days.
Damax6 at 11:45 PM JST - 14th May

Sarge i feel u on the spanish bit...now we cannot equate the states with japan.. yes some illegals overstay here by coming on real or bogus tourist visa, back home the borders are more pourous than spongebob, yes the problem is BIG back home, and i am NOT a backer on that.. They need to learn and KNOW english before they get SQUAT!!
ambrosia at 10:44 AM JST - 15th May

damax6: People do live here peacefully and do more than survive without learning the language. I know plenty who've done so and don't think there is some definite correlation between not learning the language and not surviving. Plenty of people go about their daily lives with simple, basic, survival language skills, not asking the Japanese they encounter to learn their language, whatever that may be. If the goal is simply to earn the respect of Japanese people, it will likely take a lot more than language ability. If you're asking for special favors then it's a whole other story. It's less a matter of common sense than what your goals are and some people have goals that are not hindered by a lack of Japanese.
Taka313 at 03:58 PM JST - 15th May

Although I certainly agree with the idea that any person living in a foreign country should make a point to learn the host country's language and culture for many of the reasons that Sarcasm123 mentioned above, I still don't think it should be a government mandate. Of everyone I have ever met here in Japan, the person who I feel has contributed the most to the betterment of Japan was a Catholic priest, who, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't speak a word of the language.

I think a better "factor" to be taken into consideration is how does Japan benefit from your presence? If you are a benefit to Japan, then, by all means, stay as long as you like. If you are a burden to the system, then please burden your own country.

Think of it this way, who would you rather have in the country, a guy who can't speak the language but spends one day a week organizing volunteers, buying food and distributing it to the homeless or a guy who is fluent in the language, but offers nothing to the betterment of Japan?

My two cents.

Taka
Cos at 06:20 PM JST - 15th May

*But in Japanese you only need the verb form 行く iku which can be used for anyone.

Yes Ambrosia, that way, it's easy for any idiot. With a lot of time, any idiot can attain JLPT4 level of text-book Japanese and can say "iku". And that can be useful for the tourist taking a taxi "Roppongi Hills iku, please.".

*a guy who can't speak the language.... buying food

Taka, it's great to have a good heart. But that's dangerous if he cannot read the label. I've received the cooking sanitary regulation booklet. It's all in Japanese, not one word in my Native language. Oh, to read such a document, it's extremely easy. If you are a Japanese Native speaker, you need 5 years of intensive study in average. If you start Japanese from scratches, you need more than 5 years.

I'd like to know how long that took to the aces of that board to easily reach adult and professional fluency in Japanese. Let's say passing the JLPT 1 milestone ? In time to renew visa ? Less than one year, while working here full time ? I really admire you. I'm still struggling, many years after my arrival.

That said, the Japanese governement is just bringing another useless hurdle for visa screening. If they want to increase foreign resident's fluency (and that wouldn't hurt), testing is useless. Testing never had any effect on fluency. Teaching is needed, they should start by :

-educating efficiently the children of the migrants. Instead of letting the Bresilian kids running away from unfit teachers and ijime, learning nihongo at home from the TV.., What about getting Japanese second language classes for children ? public bilingual school ?

-helping the foreign adults to study the Japanese they actually need. I guess that differs from where you live, but in a small bumpack city like Osaka, that's really hard to find trained teachers (not oshaberi bachans looking for free eikaiwa) that will teach what people need (instead of saying : "you must learn Minna no Nihongo, Nihongo no Kiso and then go back home because bachan sensei is tired of your difficult questions"). A friend wanted a class of Japanese for his staff of 20 Indian ingenieurs. The teacher had to speak enough English and know business and technical Japanese (they don't care about how to buy their groceries, they have to talk to their customers...). We've seen dozens of wannabe sensei. Not one able to do it. Well I've had a great teacher that could teach post Nihongo-no-Kiso, and she helped me with Japanese needed for my specialty, writing skills etc. Like all the good ones couldn't hope a university position, she gave up teaching, started another career. She couldn't find a full-time position, the bachans come first, many don't even ask money, it's their hobby. Ward office, prefecture office, etc, find that great, because it's nearly free (they need to spend money on inept administration). They don't understand that for the foreigners a good paying course would be much better than a free loss of time. The guys in charge never learnt another language, never traveled abroad. When we (foreigner and zainichi association) told them, they said : "But you guys have learnt more than enough Japanese with free classes. These migrants don't need to speak as much as you. They only have to get JLPT 1, not read the kanji, look we put the furigana on the documents. ". Their documents are written in the most complicated keigo and altmodish Japanese, incomprehensible with or without the ruby. Not sure they realise it, they put themselves on a bank and try to let foreigners on the other one (but not all foreigners, not us the token ones that jumped...), they even widen the gap.

Now,most schools and classes of Japanese are out of reach of foreigners (far from areas where they live, their schedules are neither convenient or full-time workers nor for people with small kids). I don't think the foreigners themselves are able to organize anthing better. So administration, companies and schools could make an effort to arrange the curriculum and teaching methods, the scheduling (including the company accepting to guarantee one or two sangyo-free evening, or let a free morning, whatever), baby-sitting, internet teaching. And maybe if tax money (paid also by migrants) could be attributed to cover the teaching fees.
KaptainKichigai at 09:09 PM JST - 15th May

everything you need to learn Japanese is on the NHK children's shows! Japanese Elmo taught me alot.
antizombie at 11:12 PM JST - 15th May

It should depend on the job requirements.
Damax6 at 11:37 PM JST - 15th May

ambrosia, what you suggest is condesending.So you are saying that its OK not knowing the language in the foreign country you decide to live in because besides asking for special favors... you will do just fine.... well , well, well... so why are we all pised off of the mexicans speaking spanish back home... then it should also be OK for them... how many of us americans who visit tijuana, cancun, cozumel and other mexican city, tried to speak a lick of spanish.. most of dont even think twice that we are in another country... it would be nice if we gringos TRIED....same as in europe...in sweden it is also required for foreign residents who stay in sweden , to be able to speak , read ,write and understand THEIR language...SO learn japanese, practise on your neighbors or japanese friend. PERIOD.!!!
tkoind2 at 09:06 AM JST - 16th May
No it should not. And the reason is in Japan's best interests.

Japan needs labor. Skilled and unskilled to maintain her tax base and working population.

Should people moving here learn to speak? Yes. Should the state offer more language and cultural training courses to new arrivals? Yes.

But limiting visas based on language is counter productive. Many jobs in Japan with foreign companies do not require Japanese ability for even many modest jobs. Restrictions here would do harm not good to both the business community and Japan's future.

Japan also needs basic labor workers and must find ways to attract more.

If the government wants to make things better they should.
1. Make Japan more foreign friendly, like the Singapore or Hong Kong, to encourage workers to move here.
2. Better civil liberties protections and rights for foreigners must be put in place to make living here long term more desirable.
3. Permanent immigration must be more achieveable to encourage people to raise families here and contribute more to society.
4. Eductational and language programs must be improved to allow immigrants to learn. This could be done as a subsidy to companies to compel them to provide language courses as a part of employment for non-Japanese.
5. Eliminate more of the xenophobic practices that allow discrimination against foreigners in employment, housing, treatment by authorities and harassment by the police.
Then, and only then, will Japan start down the path to becoming truly international and begin to address its tax, social welfare and work population problems.
ambrosia at 12:48 PM JST - 16th May

damax6: I'm not quite sure why you consider that condescending but perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of that word. Either way, I've not said I'm American nor have I said I'm "pissed off" at all the Mexicans speaking Spanish back home so I'm not sure what that has to do with this. Since you brought it up though, I really don't care what language Mexicans, Rwandans, Thai or any other group speak -again- as long as they are not asking for special favors. If a job requires English or a class is conducted in English or documents are available only in English then it would behoove any non-English speakers to learn the language if they want to get that job, take that class or understand those documents. If they can live their lives just fine without it, it's of no concern to me. Their lives will be made harder by that lack of ability, not mine. It as with most things in life. The people with the means and wherewithall will get the education and fulfill the requirements necessary to rise up in life and there will always be the ones who won't or can't and will be stuck in the same positions forever. It is really no different than learning Japanese. Do it if you want but if you don't that's your business. I simply do not care if the guy down the road speaks it or not. And please stop with the "we" business. You speak for yourself and I'll speak for myself. You don't know me and have absolutely no idea what my language abilities are or the attemps I make to speak the language of the place in which I'm living or visiting. The unsupported suppositions made on this board are quite amazing.
KyouNoNippon at 04:01 PM JST - 16th May

A resounding maybe.
Damax6 at 09:48 AM JST - 17th May

AMB...i have a right ,so as to others on this board to agree or disagree with any comments made here in public. I, in your opinion seem to "misunderstood" or misuused, the word "condescending". Sorry, i feel the word was fitting for you comment,whether you agree or NOT. All comment here or elsewhere are debated. And, i feel that you comment WERE condescending and hypocritical. THIS IS MY OPINION. You, don`t know me either, lets not get personal.. this is NOT what i am here for. I trully believe that if some wants to live and work in foreign country , they MUST show that they can adapt and survive, REGARDLESS of the fact that their work only requires them to use their native tongue. "special favor" is your "unsupported" EXCUSE to the contrary. Visiting and residing are two separate issues. I am focused on RESIDING,LONG-TERM. and you are welcome to convince me with some "supported" reasoning to the contrary,if you choose to do so. i am open to debate this with you.....finally , if you feel that debating this topic is a waste of your time,then why are you here commenting in the first place?.