Would you like to see all monarchies abolished?

Monday 07th September, 05:00 AM JST

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Tosaken at 12:29 AM JST - 10th September

It really is something of a none started to argue that a monarchy can act as a counter-balance within a democracy or that members of a royal family can & do good works. A democracy should by its very nature not need a counter-balance, but should the fear be there within the society then there is a second “house” &/or a judiciary that can act as a control. And as in the French system a president need not be of the same political party as the government & can in extreme circumstances terminate a government & call elections.

As for members of a royal family doing “good things”, so what, pop-stars do “good things” too, but nobody is ever going to advocate paying them out of taxes. The British royal family are put forward as working for the greater good of the British people, but if they were to disappear some other strata of society would take their place performing the same function at a fraction of the cost. The current crop of young royals in Europe (perhaps aside from the Spanish) seem to spend most of their time getting into & out scandalous scrapes & as for using Ex-Princess Diana as a “good” example of a member of a royal family that only shows that somebody swallowed all the media hype of the time.

No society today has a need of a monarchy, good government yes, but a monarchy plays no needful part in that.
bdaniel08 at 12:05 PM JST - 10th September

Tosake.

Bravo and thank you for the resume !
BurakuminDes at 01:13 PM JST - 10th September

Anyone who believes people should inherit power (either real or symbolic) based solely on their bloodline - is living in the dark ages.
Starviking at 05:07 PM JST - 10th September

Ah, insults the best approach BurakuminDes?
Starviking at 05:17 PM JST - 10th September

Tosaken,

Democracies by their definition shouldn't need balances - but this is not a perfect world, and so balances are needed.

If the British Royal Family were to disappear I doubt that all the good they do would be performed. Who's going to visit all the hospitals, youth centres, hospices, universities, factories etc that they do? Our local bunch of politicians? I doubt it.

As for good government - non-monarchic democracies also have their problems - the US has problems with politicians trying to stack the Supreme Court with their appointees and the electoral college system. I'm sure it's not the only one.
Tosaken at 09:43 PM JST - 10th September

Starviking at 05:17 PM JST - 10th September

“but this is not a perfect world, and so balances are needed.”

I totally agree with you, but adding a random value extra power base into the equation is very likely to make less perfect.

“Who's going to visit all the hospitals, youth centres, hospices, universities, factories etc that they do?”

If there were a sense of genuine compassion here you might have something, but what we are actually seeing are acts of self preservation. Besides what real value is there to these visits, beyond the myth that is generated by the media?

As for bad democracies, yes, there are many & I agree with you about the US system of electoral colleges, but there are (or should) mechanisms built into democracies designed to protect against corrupt interference, while the same cannot be said about monarchies. (Though Charles 1st. (2sn.?) might not have agreed with me). The baby is born to be king or queen (or whatever) & that is it, whatever that child grows into. Remember Catherine the great, Ivan the Terrible? (no, not from personal experience). Two of many, many good examples for why royalty can never be trusted to rule. As for figure head royalty, they serve no real function but cost a great deal. They are not cost effective. A wax-works of all the past royals is just as much of a tourist attraction.

I’m not advocating shooting them, just making them redundant.
Starviking at 11:25 PM JST - 10th September

Tosaken,

It's not a 'random value extra power base' - it's a power base that has evolved with increasing democracy (in the UK at least), and is not in discord with political life in the UK.

I disagree with the 'acts of self-preservation' viewpoint. It's their job and they do it. I doubt any politician would have the time or inclination to do the same. As to the value of the visits - it makes the visited feel wanted and useful. To be honest, the Royals are more likely to show an interest in the people and places they visit - at least in my experience.

I can't agree about your assertion of corrupt interference in monarchies (I'm assuming you're talking about constitutional monarchies here. You have to trawl back into distant history to make your points - in the UK Edward the VIII was ousted because he didn't have the support of the people. George the VI, his brother stepped up to the mark and helped kep the people's spirits up when fighting the Nazis. How corrupt were the republics of Catherine the Great's time?

Look a King Juan Carlos - back in the 80's he crushed a military coup just by telling the rebels where to go. Could a president have done that?

As for Royalty costing a lot - that's rubbish. Presidents cost a lot too.
PleasureGelf at 10:22 PM JST - 11th September

Hey, 55% serfers wanna be monarchy. Probably to have someone to blame. God, save the queen! 45% want to abolish monarchy. Narky little gits who've watched 'Return of the Jedi' once too many. The queen is not amused.
Cicada at 10:47 PM JST - 11th September

Far from wanting to see all monarchies abolished, I'd like to see a lot more crop up. The more the merrier. You can see this urge in the vernacular, as when Americans dreamily speak of the "King of Pop". They wish there were a king.
tigermoth at 11:17 PM JST - 11th September

starviking, sorry but as an American it's kinda hard for me to appreciate the "monarchy" as a balance to the government. We have our three branch form of govermental balance that doesn't have any role for royalty.

As an American I have to disagree with you. The 'checks and balances' system in America's 'democracy' has been shown to be flawed with the last election. And with the primarily two-party system even when there is more of a balance typically their votes cancel each other out and keep real and good legislation from passing or it gets delayed. While the flaws of a monarchy might outweight the good, the idea that 'what the King says is law' could be appealing in some instances as well (healthcare reform might be a good sight easier).

The British monarchy is a prime example of one that works; while primarily ceremonial in nature these days, it still can exercise some power. As Smithinjapan rightly stated, the Royal Family does a lot of good for the country. And I disagree that it's all self-preservation. The Royal Family does have a great sense of honour and duty, and a strong sense of affinity for the people over whom they reign. They support a great deal of charity work that might not otherwise get done, and certainly benefits from their status of support. Plus I think they give a real sense of national identity to the country. Everyone's quick to throw tradition to the wind, but it can be a real unifying and useful thing. Having a so-called democracy can be great - but it can be just as inhibitive to good government. The previous eight years can attest to that - we didn't all vote for him!
Cicada at 12:02 AM JST - 12th September

tigermoth:

The British monarchy is a prime example of one that works; while primarily ceremonial in nature these days, it still can exercise some power.

Yes, indeed, as we could see in the case of Princess Diana. Never under-estimate the power of the British Royalty.
tigermoth at 12:37 AM JST - 12th September

Yes, indeed, as we could see in the case of Princess Diana. Never under-estimate the power of the British Royalty.

Diana would be a great example of royalty doing good. She did much to bring awareness to the issue of land mines - something she would not have been able to accomplish nearly as effectively had she not been in the royal family.
Starviking at 12:42 AM JST - 12th September

I'm in full agreement with you tigermoth.
sammuraisteve at 06:30 PM JST - 13th September

What good have monarchies done for anyone? The Japanese Emperor and Empress cost tax payers billions. For what? Being cute? Queen Elizabeth is one of the wealthiest women in the world while England is rife with unemployment, poverty, crime, a dwindling education system. I say spend the money elsewhere! And get that wench off of our money!!
Starviking at 09:27 PM JST - 13th September

And what will President Blair demand sammuraisteve? A presidential jet? Scores of civil servants? Spiffy new presidential palace? The money savings might not be so large as you think.