Mariners malcontent centering on Ichiro

Friday 26th September, 11:25 AM JST

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hoserfella at 11:16 AM JST - 2nd October

nige, Im going to go out on a limb and say you may be unfamiliar with some of the unwritten rules in baseball. There are 2 situations where one should not bunt; 1. trying to break up a no-hitter (unless its a very close game), and 2. When your team is up or behind by a lot of runs... In any case, Ichiro should have muted any self-congratulations during such a terrible season.
nigelboy at 11:27 AM JST - 2nd October
nige, Im going to go out on a limb and say you may be unfamiliar with some of the unwritten rules in baseball

You shouldn't have.
1. trying to break up a no-hitter (unless its a very close game), and 2. When your team is up or behind by a lot of runs... In any case, Ichiro should have muted any self-congratulations during such a terrible season.
1 I agree. #2 I agree only when your team is up big.
hoserfella at 02:44 PM JST - 2nd October

all apologies, Nige. As for #2, while bunting while behind by a bunch of runs would not upset the other team at all, it would surely piss off your manager who needs a big inning, not more small ball.
nigelboy at 03:33 PM JST - 2nd October

all apologies, Nige. As for #2, while bunting while behind by a bunch of runs would not upset the other team at all, it would surely piss off your manager who needs a big inning, not more small ball.

Now you're being silly. I asked you first hand if it was to "sacrifice" or "to get on base". You didn't answer. My answer was based on "to get on base". When you're down by a lot runs in late innings, your job is to get on base at any cost whether that's leaning towards the pitch to get hit or taking a pitch on a 3-1 count, or even bunting trying to get on base because in those situations, the infielder typically plays deep. And of course, the situation varies depending if you're leading off an inning or there is no one on base in which getting on base is your foremost job as a slap (non-power)hitter. But of course, if there are runners on base (1st and 2nd, or bases loaded) your job is to drive him so bunting is not encouraged.
Hotbox08 at 05:45 PM JST - 2nd October

while bunting while behind by a bunch of runs would not upset the other team at all, it would surely piss off your manager who needs a big inning, not more small ball.

What? Don't you know anything about baseball at all? You play to your strengths at all times. That is the true meaning of teamwork. Although I agree that IDEALLY it would be better to go for a homerun when you are down by a lot of runs, you don't start hacking away in the process of doing it if it is not something that you are meant and paid to do. Take a look at a leadoff hitter's position. Most of them don't go for homeruns because they are not paid and are not in the position to do so. One of my favorite hitters (albeit on a team I hate) Chone Figgins, has never reached double digits in homers in a season ever, yet he does what he is meant to do and get on base, steal and disrupt the pitcher's concentration in the process. It is why they have players like Vladdy to do it.

At least nigelboy looks like the only other poster on this thread that knows something about baseball. You are correct that getting on base should be the first priority. I agree with one point that you have stated, hoserfella: Never bunt to upset a no hitter; or a perfect game for that matter.

Nevertheless, GO AKINOK AND THE TAMPA RAYS!
hoserfella at 06:30 PM JST - 2nd October

Nige, whether you are sacrificing a man to 2nd or simply trying to get on, it doesnt matter. Bunting is playing against percentages which usually results in an out. If your only aim is to get a run on the board to make it 6-1 instead of 6-0, you won't get too many managerial offers in baseball. Hotbox08- see the above
freakashow at 06:34 PM JST - 2nd October

freakshow misses the point again!! My only point (which he STILL refuses to discuss) is that Ichiro's selfishness regarding his numbers has upset his teammates. I never said the guy couldn't play, in fact twice I said he was a very good player. Posers like freakashow think picking up "Moneyball" for 5 minutes makes them an expert. By the way, Freakashow. Are we any closer to you addressing Ichiro's lack of team spirit? (I'm guessing no...)

My apologies, hoserfella. You did indeed praise Ichiro's playing skills. Yet, you seem to have failed to read any of my posts, or maybe forgot what I wrote. I have already addressed the rumors about Ichiro. You yourself said that it is a fact that Ichiro is the source of disruption in the Mariners clubhouse. I responded by saying that you can't tell that for a fact based on a "rumor", especially when many of his own teammates claim otherwise. You also went on to say that JJ Putz never denied the rumor. I wrote that he did, and I backed it up with Putz's own statements.

You also mentioned that I know nothing about baseball and teamwork. Yes, I may not know as much about baseball as you do, but that does not mean you know more about teamwork than I do. Teamwork and rumors DO NOT only happen in baseball. Rumors are flown everywhere; at work, at home, in politics, entertainment, and yes, sports. And rumors can even be spread from seemingly credible sources. Just because one person is saying something about someone, doesn’t mean it’s true. We can play the “he said, she said” game all you want, but until more credible sources come forward; a rumor remains a rumor. Also, you don't have to be an athlete to know anything about teamwork. In fact, many sports don't even require teamwork, like tennis, karate, boxing, and golf.

Yes, you are right, I am an amateur when it comes to talking about baseball, but I do know the difference between a rumor and fact. I also know what it means to be on a team. You forget, I have played sports competitively before; just not baseball. I sincerely hope that you don’t believe everything someone says about someone else; especially if it is only one person saying it. As for me, I always like to give people a chance to actually get to know them before passing any form of judgment. I pray that people will do the same with you.

Peace.

freakashow
hoserfella at 06:45 PM JST - 2nd October

Freakashow, Im touched. I think there's something in my eye. Theres nothing wrong with admitting your baseball knowledge isnt quite up to snuff, if fact it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. However, I have some issues with the above..

You also went on to say that JJ Putz never denied the rumor. I wrote that he did, and I backed it up with Putz's own statements.

Putz didnt deny or confirm the rumour. Is said that he wasn't aware of it. go back and check if you wish.

I responded by saying that you can't tell that for a fact based on a "rumor", especially when many of his own teammates claim otherwise.

Putz was the only one interviewed. who are the rest you refer to?
freakashow at 07:28 PM JST - 2nd October

Putz was the only one interviewed. who are the rest you refer to?

Sorry, my bad. I forgot to mention John Riggleman. Also, in a another article, former teammate Jose Guillen (now with the Royals) and teammate Raul Ibanez said:

Being in the middle of the outfield allows him to direct traffic, cover a lot of ground and move whichever way he desires. The amount of ground he covers often leads him into far left or right-center field, but has not become a nuisance to his outfield teammates, Raul Ibanez and Jose Guillen.

"It's good when you're playing with a guy who can cover so much ground," Guillen said. "Everybody can see it. He goes to left field, he goes to right field. He's pretty smart, and he knows what he's doing."

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070802&contentid=2125455&vkey=newssea&fext=.jsp&c_id=sea
hoserfella at 07:36 PM JST - 2nd October

freakashow, did you just Google "Ichiro", "teammates", and "covering ground"? intersting, yet doesnt explain much about this thread...
freakashow at 07:43 PM JST - 2nd October

did you just Google "Ichiro", "teammates", and "covering ground"?

No, I didn't Google anything. I remembered off the top of my head reading about Ichiro's teammates in the outfield comments. I decided to include a source, since it wouldn't seem authentic without it.
freakashow at 07:45 PM JST - 2nd October

Oh, and to add, to find the article and quote about Ichiro, all I did was to look it up on the Mariners official website. You should check it out.
hoserfella at 08:42 PM JST - 2nd October

Oh, dear. Well, freakashow, if thats what the Seattle Mariner's official website says, then I guess all is well in the Pacific Northwest afterall...
nigelboy at 09:37 AM JST - 3rd October

Nige, whether you are sacrificing a man to 2nd or simply trying to get on, it doesnt matter. Bunting is playing against percentages which usually results in an out.

Of course it does. When your sacrificing (bunting) with runners on base when your down big, that's obviously not recommended. But when your bunting to get a base hit, depending on the situation I cited previously (see my post at 03:33 PM JST - 2nd October) that's a whole different matter all to itself.

"If your only aim is to get a run on the board to make it 6-1 instead of 6-0, you won't get too many managerial offers in baseball."

What??? The point of getting on base as a slap hitter is for the other power hitters to drive you in. If a slap hitter simply wanted to make it 6-1 instead of 6-0, he would simply go for the long ball. Talk about "playing against percentages which usually results in an out." (your quote)

Moderator: Readers, back on topic please. Posts that do not refer to Ichiro will be removed.
boobug at 02:15 PM JST - 3rd October

Ichiro's teammates obviously have a reason to gripe. His 2008 batting stats, when compared to his career averages, were down across the board ! Everything from Runs, Hits, Doubles, Triples, Homeruns, RBI's, and worse yet his Batting Average were all off. Slap hitters at 34 years of age are pretty much worthless. Time for Ichiro to hit the weights, bulk up, and fine tune that homerun swing, or his days in the majors could be numbered.