Japan manager Tatsunori Hara leads his team through the arrival terminal at Narita Airport on Wednesday.

'Samurai Japan' return to heroes' welcome after WBC triumph

Thursday 26th March, 06:38 AM JST

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smithinjapan at 04:34 PM JST - 26th March

roomtemperature:

You still haven't explained why it doesn't matter that the American MLB players were not in full force because Japan is the best, but the same thing DID matter when Ichiro, Matsuzaka, etc. couldn't play in the Olympics and Japan lost. That was also addressed at you, as I knew you wouldn't be able to resist coming on here and gloating at something you had no help in accomplishing.

Anyway, fun to watch the kids play baseball out in the park at the same time as you guys make excuses as to why Japan is the best in the world but the Olympics don't matter, and why it doesn't matter the US team didn't field the best of American players.

Keep trying.
thorgrimfile at 07:39 PM JST - 26th March

"will japan ever win 1st place in the baseball world cup?NOPE. How bout this year? NO! pretty pathetic since baseball world cup has been around about 40 years."

Huh? There's a baseball world cup (must be up there with the curling world cup in terms of international prestige!)? Who the heck plays in that, high school kids? And you guarantee Japan wont win it this year, whatever it is? Whoop-di-do...
isthistheend at 08:17 PM JST - 26th March

Here we go on and on. For the first few days (its still relatively recent) I thought about the glory of Japan and Korea facing off in the finals, with USA and Cuba and Venezuala going home to nurse themselves. Then I read a comment by USA pitcher and he said "They outplayed us. We had a good enough line up to win. they just outplayed us." Sports is like that. O.K. for the short term, Japan did win, Korea was 2nd. Expand the formate over a season. Maybe they'll still win, but maybe not as much? In the NBA where games are night after night, even the top team at the beginning like the boston celtics are now being overtaken by 2-3 other teams near the end of the season. I'm not in any way denying that J and K teams have reached equal footing with the best in the world, but don't get TOO gloated over a win. Its only a win in one series. In Golf, even Tiger Woods doesn't win every time. And then today I was thinking, wait a minute. If Japan is nailing us to the wall about not fielding a better team, why is it that in Japan's other "national sport" they haven't had a grand champion Yokozuna since Takanohana....a decade ago? "Oh, we don't care about sumo anymore." Well, don't have it both ways. And in WBC III, maybe we'll see a younger USA team that studies the intricacies of Japanese pitching tendencies (fork balls, sinkers, sliders, balls diving just before they reach the plate) etc., and learn to be more patient for a pitch that comes into the strike zone. And maybe we'll have a pitching staff that will take it to heart to shut out the other side. And then in a best of series, what'll happen. Games on that's for sure.
smithinjapan at 09:09 PM JST - 26th March

Thor: "There's a baseball world cup (must be up there with the curling world cup in terms of international prestige!)?"

That's how a lot of people I know view the WBC compared to the MLB.
yokohamabaystar at 10:48 PM JST - 26th March

Japan is the greatest baseball country in the world. Americans should also be proud of their achievements. After all, they reached the semi finals playing on their home turf using biased American umpires. It is the best presentation ever. The truth of the matter is Japan and US is not on equal footing. Anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that Japan is a notch or two better than US. US has a lot of catching up to do.
smithinjapan at 01:28 AM JST - 27th March

yokohamabaystar: We know you're bitter, but stop making up stories. In the world baseball rankings Japan is third, under Korea and Cuba. That's a fact, so suck it up.

"Anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that Japan is a notch or two better than US."

Hahaha... funny. Yes, everyone knows that a Japanese team stacked with major leaguers whom you said helped win this time since they couldn't perform in the Olympics (and yet it doesn't matter that the main MLB Americans could not this time!) against a team of Triple A American ball players. Sorry, but even if Japan IS a few notches above the US, it cannot be proven -- the only thing that can be proven is that the players who represented Japan did better than the players who represented the US in this minor tournament (not even a 'championship', but a 'classic').

Anyway, as Hotbox rightly pointed out:

"Cuba Korea Japan U.S."

Those are the rankings of the top four teams in the world. You'll notice, Yokohama, that Japan finishes third, just under Korea.
nigelboy at 01:28 AM JST - 27th March

So you're happy more that Korea lost than Japan won. Typical of the Japanese mentality --

Huh? In this tournament, Korea lost only to Japan, and vice versa. But I'm quite positive that you were rooting for Cuba and USA when they faced Japan. And knowing you, I don't see anything wrong with that.

As to you're claim that people complained more about Hoshino than anything else for the Olympic failure (and loss to the superior Korean team), that's yet more excuses, even aside from the fact that you're wrong. Anyway, I did find it funny that while the posts about Korea winning gold are erased from the archives, the files you posted links to are still there... hmmm...

I don't think I'm wrong there smitty. The fact is, people here on this site were out to get Hoshina for his arrogance. So naturallly, when Japan failed to capture the gold, majority of the posters were pointing at Hoshino more so than on the "use of MLB players" which was RARELY brought up at all.

And of course, the media criticized Hoshino for some of the decisions just as Korean media and their fans are criticizing Kim's decision of pitching to Ichiro or taking Tae Kyun Kim out for pinch running, or leaving Lim out there for so long. But I doubt you would label that as "excuses".

One thing about WBC versus Olympics is that both Japan and U.S. takes it more seriously for the former than the latter. On another thread, one guy mentioned that during the finals round, U.S. didn't have Chipper, Pedroia, and Youk but fails to mention that DeRosa, Roberts, and Dunn had a treamendous tournament. Another person mentioned that Korea didn't have Lee Seung Yeop. Are you kidding?? The so-called replacement had a tremendous tournament batting .345 with 3 homers and a tournament leading 11 RBI's and was one of only two unanimous vote getters for all tournament team.

On paper, Cuba supposedly had the most potent lineup but they were manhandled by the Japan's pitching staff. Korean pitchers handled the potent lineup of Venezuela which had Cabrera, Abreu, and Mags. Even Dominican Republic which had the likes of Papi, Tejada, and Hanly Ramirez was "checked" by an unemployed journeyman named Sidney Ponson. Ted Lily, Roy Oswalt, and Jake Peavy (all of whom are pretty damn good) all had ERA over 5 during this tournament. Would Cliff Lee, Sabathia, and Halladay would of made that much of a difference?

So yeah. Briging "America didn't send it's best player" to the table is fine if you can convince they would of faired better.
smithinjapan at 10:17 AM JST - 27th March

nigelboy: "And of course, the media criticized Hoshino for some of the decisions just as Korean media and their fans are criticizing Kim's decision of pitching to Ichiro or taking Tae Kyun Kim out for pinch running, or leaving Lim out there for so long. But I doubt you would label that as "excuses"."

Wrong. I have clearly stated that both sides have given excuses, and both sides, when they do, look rather sad. The difference is people like yourself only see the excuses when they come from the other side, and do nothing but make them when they come from your own. Hell, in this WBC when Korea lost to Japan (first or second time, I can't recall, now), people were blaming Hara and saying what a freak he was for trying to get the batter to bunt late in the game. Now he's the hero of the year, since Japan won, and most of you seem to have forgotten you were getting ready to pin the blame on him (again, like with Hoshino). I don't care if you think people 'RARELY' blamed not having stars like Ichiro in the Olympics was the reason for the loss -- my point was that people did, and they did. Blaming it on other excuses MORE than that makes it no less an excuse.

I did root against Japan more than once, and with more than one team, and flatly stated that. However, I also stated several times that I was very impressed with the final game and how Japan pulled themselves together, and that in the end they deserved to win (hell, I even gave Ichiro credit!).

"So yeah. Briging "America didn't send it's best player" to the table is fine if you can convince they would of faired better."

Actually, I'm not. Again, though, my point was that there are people on here whining that some people ARE saying that they are convinced that's the case and not admitting Japan is the best, but those same people (or some of them) could find nothing but the same or similar excuses in past events like the Olympics. See what I'm saying? So when those people whine, I feel the need to point out that the complaining and excuses go BOTH ways.
MASSWIPE at 11:04 AM JST - 27th March

Yet another endless online debate in which people only see what they want to see. Let me add my two yen:

The clearest indication that the US didn't take the WBC seriously was in their choice of manager. Davy Johnson had a great career managing 4 teams, but he hasn't managed an actual major league baseball game in this century. By contrast, one of the main reasons Tatsunori Hara replaced Senichi Hoshino as Japan's WBC manager is that the former is a current manager while the latter is retired. No major league team in the US would have allowed its current manager to spend 5 weeks away from spring training as Hara just did. That, to me, is an indication of how seriously Japan took the WBC compared to the US.

All the talk about national psychology in the WBC is a bit grating. It is clear, however, that the Japanese are obsessed with establishing their supremacy in a game that was invented, popularized, and introduced to the world by the United States. Koreans, meanwhile, are obsessed with beating Japan. Why that's the case is in the eye of the beholder. I just hope the next WBC doesn't turn into yet another Asian grudge match.
smithinjapan at 12:16 PM JST - 27th March

I'm tired of this thread. People are going to stick to their opinions regardless of what others say. It's just a shame that while some of us are trying to be more objective, some on both sides have to come on and insist that the Japanese are gods, or that they are simply lucky, etc.

I will end this with yet another (and yet another time you'll choose not to see it) congratulations to Japan. The return to Japan is over, obviously, but the limelight is still on these boys, so they should enjoy it.
nigelboy at 12:52 PM JST - 27th March

Hell, in this WBC when Korea lost to Japan (first or second time, I can't recall, now), people were blaming Hara and saying what a freak he was for trying to get the batter to bunt late in the game. Now he's the hero of the year, since Japan won, and most of you seem to have forgotten you were getting ready to pin the blame on him (again, like with Hoshino).

Dear Smitty:

I have about a total of 6 posts regarding anything related to WBC compared to your over 200+. So the term "most of you" does not apply to me. PERIOD.

And about excuses.

Criticizing a manager's decision IMO is not "excuses" when you can back it up with an alternative that makes sense. This is why I believe Kim's decision to allow Lim to pitch to Ichiro which COST the game and championship should be criticized. Does that mean Korea would of won if they decided to walk Ichiro at that time. NO. But for some people, they may just construe that as an excuse just as you construed Hoshino's bad decision as an excuse.

To Masswipe.

We get it. U.S. doesn't take it seriously. The game that "they" invented are no longer "dominated" by home grown Americans. If you look at the increase % of foreign born players in MLB, it's quite obvious. And after this tournament, it's going to increase more and more.

Twenty or so years ago, Japanese players were in awe of "Major League" ballplayers. Top tier Japanese players know they can play in the bigs (Aoki, Nakajima, Nishioka, Kawasaki) For some, it's become a sort of "chance to revive your career" for aging Japanese ballplayers. (Saito, Okajima)
Blue_Tiger at 07:10 PM JST - 27th March

I wanted ot stand in the balcony area of Narita Airport and toss eggs on them as they came in.....
roomtemperature at 07:32 PM JST - 27th March

"I wanted ot stand in the balcony area of Narita Airport and toss eggs on them as they came in....."

I wish you did. I really wish you did. Wouldn't that be fun to watch, bleu tiger.....ooppps sorry....that is blue tiger of course.
smithinjapan at 08:12 PM JST - 30th March

nigelboy: "I have about a total of 6 posts regarding anything related to WBC compared to your over 200+. So the term "most of you" does not apply to me. PERIOD."

Really? 200+? I highly doubt that, but then I do know you are prone to exaggeration. Anyway, it does apply to you if even in a single post you were calling Hara's decision a bad call and saying that's what cost Japan the game. It's not about numbers, it's about content.

"Criticizing a manager's decision IMO is not "excuses" when you can back it up with an alternative that makes sense. This is why I believe Kim's decision to allow Lim to pitch to Ichiro which COST the game and championship should be criticized. Does that mean Korea would of won if they decided to walk Ichiro at that time. NO. But for some people, they may just construe that as an excuse just as you construed Hoshino's bad decision as an excuse."

You've lost me, here. I never said I didn't agree with criticizing Kim's decision to allow Lim to pitch, but I DO believe I said it was wrong to constantly use it as an excuse for why Korea lost. That would be like saying the whole thing rode on that fact and Korea would have won otherwise, which you go on to say may not have been the case. What are you talking about with Hoshino? Do you mean Hara? or are you going back to the Olympics? Again, criticizing Hara for the bunt call is fine and dandy, but my point was that people were using it as an excuse for why Japan lost, much the same way they blame everything (not criticize, but merely blame and make excuses) on Hoshino when they lost the Olympics.

It's fine to be critical. In fact, it's necessary. But there's a HUGE difference between making excuses and offering criticism, and my point is that there are those on both sides who cannot distinguish (or refuse to) between the two.

roomtemperature: "I wish you did. I really wish you did. Wouldn't that be fun to watch, bleu tiger"

Ahhh... and roomtemperature's signature 'I can't actually comment on the thread, and let's insult French!' addition to the conversation. So how many posts is that that you have not been able to actually say something on topic? errr... better yet, can you give us an example of ONE time that you did?

Seriously, while I know there are a number of people on here who are not thrilled with the Japan win, people who cannot actually congratulate the team they support by simply attacking others really are not helping anything but making the team's efforts look more foolish.
nigelboy at 10:55 PM JST - 30th March

Really? 200+? I highly doubt that, but then I do know you are prone to exaggeration.

OK. 140+ 147 to be exact. You got me there.

Anyway, it does apply to you if even in a single post you were calling Hara's decision a bad call and saying that's what cost Japan the game. It's not about numbers, it's about content.

Well then. It doesn't. Not a single post about Hara.

You've lost me, here. I never said I didn't agree with criticizing Kim's decision to allow Lim to pitch, but I DO believe I said it was wrong to constantly use it as an excuse for why Korea lost. That would be like saying the whole thing rode on that fact and Korea would have won otherwise, which you go on to say may not have been the case. What are you talking about with Hoshino? Do you mean Hara? or are you going back to the Olympics? Again, criticizing Hara for the bunt call is fine and dandy, but my point was that people were using it as an excuse for why Japan lost, much the same way they blame everything (not criticize, but merely blame and make excuses) on Hoshino when they lost the Olympics.

I think you're lost simply because you go out of way to assume that criticizing Hoshino/Hara=not giving enough credit to the opponents to your satisfaction=excuses.

Seriously, while I know there are a number of people on here who are not thrilled with the Japan win, people who cannot actually congratulate the team they support by simply attacking others really are not helping anything but making the team's efforts look more foolish.

Of course, then there are those who predicted the downfall of Japan are never to be seen on this board. (throwin...)