Apple's downward spiral accelerates

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  • -8

    basroil

    Well, the biggest "advancement" in apple's lineup was to destroy backwards compatibility, and shift a single device to 16:9 ratio (but same ppi). The markets are rightly worried about innovation.

    And lets not forget that review sites also have cared less and less about apple as it becomes increasingly irrelevant

  • 2

    onewrldoneppl

    apple stock is still worth more than samsungs, which is also projected to falter pretty soon. microsoft has been middling for almost a decade. i think stories like these are just a lot of hype. the only ones being hurt are the greedy investors. the average wants lower prices not, more innovations. this is why companies like sony, sharp, et al are taking it in the butt while samsung, HTC and huawei have been devouring market share. nokia, RIM and ericsson have been rendered inert. apple only needs to lower its prices to annihilate its competitors.

  • 1

    Outta here

    Ah l see microsofts JT spokesman has piped up early with another irrelevant statement in an attempt to stick the boots into his mortal enemy. Well said basroil....

    By the way what has Microsoft done lately other than release another freeze prone, buggy product? Heck even the ex Microsoft program manager is complaining about the system..... But keep on kicking apple hey!!

  • 5

    wanderlust

    Stockmarket value - an imaginary number based on what a small group of people think something is worth, or want it to be worth...just look at Facebook.

    Now they are screaming: sell, sell, sell, but as soon as it goes down below a certain value, they'll change their tune and it will be: buy, buy, buy.... and they'll keep making money on the trades.

  • 5

    hoserfella

    Far from basroil's predictable comments, no stock can sustain the wild heights that Apples reached. The fact is Apple are by far still the industry standard and the most innovative computer co in the world

  • 4

    GW

    All this REALLY illustrates is how MESSED UP things are in how the "market works" its clearly becomg a real oxymoron because clearly it isnt working, the rich & connected have made huge amounts of imaginary $$$, the ponzi scam is pretty damned large.

    So little of stocks value is based on reality anymore, is way outta control.

    This apple bit is just a micro version of whats happening worldwide, the economy has LONG LONG had nothing to do with products & services made/provided, its all angles & BS & scams to pilfer from the smaller investors. I have long since given up "investing" because clearly its rigged only for those already with mega$$ for the most part.

    For the little people now a days its best to work & save, those long term returns that we are always say will happen for the little people stopped by the early 90s & unlikely they will ever return for the little guy, SO DONT BE A SUCKER!

  • 9

    zichi

    People are selling stock over fears of new taxes next year. I think Apple stock will be back at $620 in Q1 next year.

  • 4

    cubic

    As zichi says, I think this is more to do with external factors rather than Apple itself. They are still the company everyone has their eyes on when a new product is launched.

  • -2

    ka_chan

    Apple can stay up only for so long with Jobs. Notice a pattern? Sony, Apple? And the next great company isn't Samsung or LG. They don't make anything new.

  • 4

    2020hindsights

    The latest drop in Apple's share price is due to Nokia striking a deal with China Mobile Ltd. Apple has yet to do as well, but it will do.

    However, Nokia's Windows phone is unlikely to be as successful as the iPhone. Apple have done well to promote the iPhone and Apple products a premium devices in a China that is getting richer. Commanding the top spot will be lucrative for Apple.

    Apple is looking to sell 45 million iPhones in Q4 alone. More than any other manufacturer.

  • 7

    zichi

    Good time for people to buy Apple stock.

  • 5

    Robert Dykes

    All good things. Apple reinvented the wheel. Almost 3 times. iPod, iPhone, and their razor thin air Mac or whatever it's called. Not an easy task to do. And with the iPod and iPhone they kept reinventing to everyone's surprise. I never expected them to keep up with the market competition they created. Then take the iPad. They invented a whole new wheel. Created a market that was never there before. So ofcrouse they were gong to enjoy a few years of domination in a market they created. That was never going to last. Of course other people would come and compete in that market, and compete they did. Apple isn't going bye bye. But there was no way they could stay on top like they did. Unless they somehow learn how to make and sell iPads and iPhones for half their price and still turn a profit.

  • 3

    zichi

    Next year, Apple will still be the world leader in tablet sales and will sell 100 million iPads and 200 million iPhones next year. Apple which created the modern market for tablets will also lose some of that market because other devices are available but there won't be much competition from Microsoft's new tablet Surface which isn't selling very well and its new Surface Pro due out in January, which is expensive costing nearly $1,000 with the cover or cover and keyboard. Microsoft's own OEM partners are also releasing their own version which will be competition against Microsoft rather than Apple. Microsoft stock is less than $30.

  • 0

    ohayo206

    Sorry but every time Apple reinvented itself...who was there running the ship. Steve Jobs (RIP). Right now Apple of today is no where near the company it was with him helming the company. Apple stockholders should be worried.

  • 5

    Peter Payne

    Guys, this is related to the Fiscal Cliff, as well as people wanting to sell to avoid the slight increase in some taxes due to Obamacare. Could predict this a mile away. I am staying put -- between Apple's still-growing retail situation (the only reason for a male to enter a mall these days) plus China, still growing a huge pace, their stock will rebound.

  • -1

    kchoze

    Apple is famous for not paying dividends, so that the only way to actually profit from the stock is to sell it, making it basically a strictly speculative investment. Such speculative investments are extremely prone to bubble dynamics, especially when the non-expert public starts paying attention. When the stock rises for a certain time, a lot of people are attracted to it, which further increases the price. This can go on for a while until people start wondering if it can go on forever... and it obviously can't. So when it starts falling, some people may panic and sell, because there is no reason to hold the stock if it is expected to decline.

    Apple's stock is almost like a ponzi scheme in fact.

    As to the claims that this has to do with the fiscal cliff or expected taxes, I don't see why they would. People pay no taxes on Apple stocks until they sell them, at which point they pay capital gains taxes on the profit from the sale. For now, I don't recall proposals to hike capital gains taxes. It would be completely irrational to sell Apple shares because of these. Furthermore, if these were really the causes, then they would affect the entire stock market, there is no reason why Apple shares alone would be affected. That is evidently not the case, so the theory is pretty much completely proven to be false.

  • 5

    zichi

    Microsoft stock has fallen from $33 in March to $26.61, a fall of about 20%.

  • 3

    JeffLee

    Apple reinvented the wheel. Almost 3 times. iPod, iPhone, and their razor thin air Mac

    Nope, hope and nope. All those products were modeled on already-existing products. MP3 players (Window-compatible) preceded the iPod, Blackberries the Iphone smartphone, and Sony Viao x505 ultrathin, the Macbook Air.

    Apple had innovations by using a touch screen for a smartphone and with the IOS (that Android copied), but in most other areas Apple has been a follower, not a leader.

  • -7

    basroil

    hoserfellaDec. 06, 2012 - 12:41PM JST

    no stock can sustain the wild heights that Apples reached.

    Yes, analysts had said for a long time that they knew the stock was overvalued, but that people were crazy enough to keep driving the stock up. Given it's actual performance compared to other companies, it should be closer to the 200-300 range. They've also been long overdue for a stock split, but the board fears losing it's power (to keep Cook at the top).

    The fact is Apple are by far still the industry standard

    I don't see how 25% smartphone shares or 5% computer shares is industry standard. It's at best a good chunk, but far from standard, especially in the realm of computers.

    and the most innovative computer co in the world

    The most innovative company in computing is still intel, and in cellphones it's up in the air. The iphone and ipad wouldn't have been possible without screen developments from Hitachi, Sharp, LG, and Samsung, SoC developments from Samsung, Qualcomm, and Broadcom.

    Peter PayneDec. 06, 2012 - 01:57PM JST

    Guys, this is related to the Fiscal Cliff, as well as people wanting to sell to avoid the slight increase in some taxes due to Obamacare.

    If that were true all the stocks should be down, but Samsung's up 1.75% and Microsoft up 1%, while only Apple was down 6.4%.

  • 1

    viking68

    Apple consistently makes quality products. I've bought into most of Apple's products over the last four years or so, e.g., MacBook, iPad 2, Mac Mini, and Apple TV (like it a lot). I've been more happy with these products that the MS equivalent.

    The app store also recorded a 30% jump in sales as a result of iPhone 5.

    Apple is also rolling out an internet radio station to suck more cash from their customers.

    Apple has its quirks and faults, but it is still a great company at what it does.

    The people holding Apple shares for a long time are still very happy. People who bought when it was at the high point were more or less speculators trying to catch what turned into a receding wave.

  • 2

    viking68

    JeffLeeDEC. 06, 2012 - 02:31PM JST Apple reinvented the wheel. Almost 3 times. iPod, iPhone, and their razor thin air Mac

    Nope, hope and nope. All those products were modeled on already-existing products. MP3 players (Window-compatible) preceded the iPod, Blackberries the Iphone smartphone, and Sony Viao x505 ultrathin, the Macbook Air.

    Apple had innovations by using a touch screen for a smartphone and with the IOS (that Android copied), but in most other areas Apple has been a follower, not a leader.

    Yes, Apple continuously copies and claims the copy as an original. Their strength is really in taking (or stealing) these ideas and putting them in a better design. The "it just works" slogan is mostly true, as long as you do what Apple wants you to do.

    You only run into issues when you try to do something Apple doesn't want you to, e.g., play blu-ray movies on their PCs are not supported unless you buy 3rd party software. So my issue with Apple is them herding me into their ecosystem when it doesn't always serve me.

  • 1

    zichi

    Samsung stock is only traded in S. Korea?

  • 4

    zichi

    When you buy any Apple product, open the box and turn it on, "it just works".

  • 3

    Outta here

    Viking68,

    So apple doesn't support blu ray. That's because apple didnt want to spend big money acquiring licences for a product that won't be around for much longer. Although l do believe they have relented and it is going to happen.

    But seriously who buys blu ray discs anyway. When you can get the same show / movie from iTunes for a faction of the cost and stream it to any device anyway....

  • 4

    Outta here

    zichi

    When you buy any Apple product, open the box and turn it on, "it just works".

    Exactly, and when you buy a Microsoft product, you open it, try to figure out how to turn it on, then hope it does actually work.

  • 5

    zichi

    My 85-year old mother used Windows and was on the phone everyday asking me how to do something. Since she changed to Mac's she's never phoned about her computer.

  • 0

    2020hindsights

    Apple reinvented the wheel. Almost 3 times. iPod, iPhone, and their razor thin air Mac

    Nope, hope and nope. All those products were modeled on already-existing products. MP3 players (Window-compatible) preceded the iPod, Blackberries the Iphone smartphone, and Sony Viao x505 ultrathin, the Macbook Air.

    Yep. Yep and yep. Yes there were many MP3 players before the iPod. But Apple 'invented' something that completely blitzed the competition. And did so for years.

    Blackberries indeed preceded the iPhone. How are they doing these days? Apple's selling 45 million iPhones in a quarter; how many are Blackberry selling? They stuck too long with their keyboard. Apple revolutionized the smartphone with it's multitouch screen.

    And the Sony Vaio x505? With a hard disk that's smaller than the memory in my iPhone, it's hardly a competitor the Mac Air.

  • 3

    Thomas Anderson

    And the Sony Vaio x505? With a hard disk that's smaller than the memory in my iPhone, it's hardly a competitor the Mac Air.

    Erm you do realize that the X505 was released in 2005, 3 years earlier than Macbook Air.

  • 4

    zichi

    I have used Windows since Wins 95, and mac's since OS 6, so I gave both systems a fair run, but for me, Apple was the winner.

    I still use Windows 7,sometimes, but only installed on my mac. In my cupboard there are several Windows PC's I no longer use.

    This year I changed my iMac for a Mac mini sever and and iPad 2. I'm still using my 2003, G3 iBook which had one hard drive failure in all that time. What a great value buy the iBook turned out to be. I will buy a refurnished iPad 3 and probably an iPad mini since my wife wants one. We don't use the iPhone or any smart phone but recently when I went to buy a new phone for the wife, we discovered the iPhone 5 was much cheaper than the Samsung Galaxy 3.

    I will never again buy another Windows PC and when Microsoft stops updating Windows 7, I will just drop it altogether.

    Since I don't own any Apple stock, or any stock for that matter, the price is not of any concern to me.

  • 3

    zichi

    Why are Microdic's even interested in the value of Apple stock unless they actually own it?

  • 4

    Outta here

    basroil, you say apple has 5% market share in computers yet apples market share of PC share is actually not known as it is not in the top 5 PC manufacturers. What is known is that IOS has a 9.5% market share, android 4.8% and the majority of the rest is microcrash software.

    In terms of the US smart phone market apple has 29% its nearest rival Samsung 24% . Interestingly Apple business software sales grew by 50% in the last qtr.

    Not bad for a company you keep running down hey?

  • 3

    2020hindsights

    basroil

    Apple consistently have the top selling smartphone Every quarter except Q3 (where anticipation for the new iPhone dampens demand) they outsell all other manufacturers.

    They are usually around #3 for computers behind HP and Dell. Not bad for a premium brand.

  • 4

    tkoind2

    Most of the time I think that the stock market is detrimental to the welfare of work in all countries. Apple is a strong stable company with good products. It will continue to be so. But the stock market and everyone associated with it seems to think that if stellar profits are not on the horizon that a stock is "Done" or no longer good. This is nonsense based upon greedy people who cannot see past the immediate future to consider the long term picture.

    We need a view of economics and business that rewards concepts like stability, providing gainful and stable employment to people in the community, providing people with good reliable products. Not this flavor of the moment thinking that drives everything today. And not with expectations of continuous growth and year on year gains. It is enough that a company survives, employs and is stable.

    Perhaps we should end the entire concept of betting on stocks.

  • 2

    Disillusioned

    Zichi - I have used Windows since Wins 95, and mac's since OS 6, so I gave both systems a fair run, but for me, Apple was the winner.

    Me too! Winner by far! "Once you've had a Mac you will never go back!"

  • -4

    smithinjapan

    Jobs was a unique character, and things seem to have really taken off downwards since his death. They need to find someone who can help Apple get back into its groove. Things will still even out a little all the same, but the quality of Apple products will remain as good as ever despite losing shares.

  • 2

    Fredster

    Basroil wrote...

    If that were true all the stocks should be down, but Samsung's up 1.75% and Microsoft up 1%, while only Apple was down 6.4%.

    The upcoming capital gains increase in the US next year will hit hardest those whole have actually "GAINED" wealth through their investments...

    A large percentage of the owners of Apple stock are facing a fair tax burden because of the extreme gains in the price of their stock and are therefore trying to minimize their exposure before the new year and before this "forecasted" sell-off artificially devalues the price...

    Regarding Microsoft and Samsung - there is simply no need for owners of either of those stocks to have to even consider having to protect themselves for such a capital gains exposure because they don't have any gains to be taxed...

    There will certainly be lots of other reasons, analysis and speculations regarding for this current sell-off and market cap decline but a direct comparison to other stocks yields no meaningful information with consideration of a multitude of other factors... It isn't just as simple as an US vs Them argument...

  • -1

    MADCOWS

    apple is simply over valued by miles!

  • -3

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    I can't say any of this is a surprise. Nothing Apple has done was innovative. Just pretty. Now they are just keeping the exact same crap in the exact same shell, in varying different sizes.

    The competition is coming out new essentially, the same crap in different shells, in different sizes all for lower prices. Not to mention, they are doing it at a much quicker rate than Apple can sustain. Don't like the way one looks, no problem. Buy a different one.

    Don't like Apple's model, well...good luck. That's all you get til next year. That or jump ship. Which many are doing.

    Anyways, this is nothing more than a reflection of the market. The stock will keep dropping. I think it'll drop to the $400s and level off from there.

    @2020hindsights

    Did you just say Apple is the #3 computer manufacturer? Since when? Never? Apple isn't even in the top 5. They are #9. Bottom of the list, just above Gateway.

    HP, Lenovo, Dell, Acer, and AsusTek are your top 5. Lenovo just overtook HP as the leading manufacturer.

    If you are only looking at US numbers, then yes. Apple is #3. Sounds impressive, when you shrink the market to a single country. Still...bottom of the barrel in the world though.

  • 4

    tkoind2

    Korlacan, but the simple fact is Apple makes products that are friendly to any level user. Their phones work well and are easy to grasp. Their computers are far more stable than PCs. Their applications work and enable people to be productive. And their range of products makes it possible for people to select what works for them.

    For me, I have run PC and Mac side by side in the same application fields for years. The PC takes far more of my time to maintain and keep working properly. While the Mac enables productivity and does not cramp my creativity by making me solve technical problems every day like the PC tends to do.

    My iphone works. Far better than the work provided Android phone. My laptop is lite and easy to carry around and the Air does not cramp my shoulders like the brick Lenovo I have from work which is supposed to be lite. And it works unlike the Lenovo which has been rebuilt 4 times in the same period my Air has not required any service.

    Are Macs products pretty. Sure. Are they uninventive? Maybe not the cutting edge, but they work. And afterall isn't that what most of us want? A machine that actually works?

    Apple will rebound and continue providing people with products that work. Plain and simple.

  • 2

    zichi

    The majority of people buying the iPad mini are either buying a tablet for the first time or changing from another make.

  • 0

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    2020hindsights Yep. Yep and yep. Yes there were many MP3 players before the iPod. But Apple 'invented' something that completely blitzed the competition. And did so for years. Blackberries indeed preceded the iPhone. How are they doing these days? Apple's selling 45 million iPhones in a quarter; how many are Blackberry selling? They stuck too long with their keyboard. Apple revolutionized the smartphone with it's multitouch screen. And the Sony Vaio x505? With a hard disk that's smaller than the memory in my iPhone, it's hardly a competitor the Mac Air.

    Apple didn't invent something that completely blitzed the competition. They simply created a product, like every other product. Sony had the exact same thing with their own mp3 store to go with it. The only issue they had, was users didn't buy it, cause you were getting locked into Sony's specific DRM'd music. Apple users on the other hand, simply bought it up, not caring about Apple's specific DRM'd music. Sipped that kool-aid up. Non-Apple users kept hopping around to different mp3 players. Eventually, once Apple's base was big, there wasn't really anywhere else to go. Nowadays, there isn't really crap for mp3 players, just cellphones without cellphone capabilities like the iPod or Samsung's Galaxy Player.

    S.Koreans had a multi-touch smartphone before the iPhone came out. Before Android was out. The LG Prada. I was living in S.Korea during then and before the LG Prada was even out, they had plenty of touch phones out. They weren't multi-touch until the LG Prada was out. Even the iPhone looked like a ripoff of the LG Prada, which showed off the phone much earlier than release, so they could win an award. Guess what shape is holds? Rectangle with rounded corners.

    The Sony Vaio came out 4 years before the Macbook Air. It's call, technological limitations. You could only do so much with a computer so small during that time, while attempting to maintain a low enough price tag that consumers would buy it. Even though it was a niche market. SSDs were simply too cost prohibitive during that time. 1.8" drives cost too much. Getting a like 40 gig 1.8" drive would have increase cost by at least $300. Even when the Air released it either got a dreadfully slow 80gig 1.8" hdd or 64 gig SSD. Again though, 4 years before the Macbook Air came out. Of course it wasn't a competitor to the Mac Air. It had no competitors.

    In this day and age, the Mac Air has too many competitors and ones that are more feature rich, higher performing, etc.

    The only reason for Apple's products selling well is hardly innovation. It's just all hype. That hype is dying and users are finally opening their eyes.

  • -1

    DentShop

    Apple please, fix up the bloody Apple TV and the shoddy alarm clock on the iPhone which has probably cost people their jobs.

  • -1

    Heda_Madness

    About 3 weeks ago this subject came up and I said that given the lack of innovation on the iphone and the ipad mini that shareholders would start to worry. I seem to remember a couple of people on here shouting me down.

    They need to go back to their innovative roots because they're not a follower. And if they continue to follow they will continue to 'struggle'.

  • 2

    BertieWooster

    I think a lot of people have the word "innovate" confused with "invent."

    Here's the entry in the Oxford for "innovate":

    make changes in something established, esp. by introducing new methods, ideas, or products

    That is exactly what Apple did with the iPod, iPhone and, by extension, the iPad.

    No one says Apple invented these things.

    These are innovations, not inventions.

    What puts Apple way above what Microsoft produces is the integration. My iPhone, iPad and iMac synchronise seamlessly. I take a photo on the iPhone and it's on my iMac when I get home. Generally speaking, if you have learned one Apple application, you can use another Mac app without reading a manual. They have the same keyboard shortcuts and follow the same guidelines. The glaring exception to this is the MS Office suite. Word is too complicated. I gave up on it years ago. Pages is MUCH easier to use. And, again, integration is the key. My photos are just one click away with Pages, so, adding a photo to a document is very fast and easy. And, again, sharing documents with my iPad and iPhone is instant and automatic.

    Apple isn't perfect, but it's way above anything else on the market and, with Jony Ive now putting his skills to designing software, there are going to be some very interesting changes.

  • 1

    The_True

    Many Isheep here! like they own apple or they stock, you guys paid up your nose just like me for apple device.

    i own more apple idevice than most here, but i dont go as far as to trying to make apple everything in my life.

  • -2

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    @BertieWooster

    We aren't confusing anything. Tell me, where exactly did they innovate? iPod, was no different than any other mp3 player during that time. The iPhone was no different than any other touch/multitouch phone when it released. The iMac same thing.

    MS integration. MS has had Skydrive for the past 5 years (has had multiple names now). MS by far has the best cloud integration, which Apple can't even touch. They integrate Skydrive with their own products and even integrate it with outside products like Facebook, Twitter, or LinkedIn. Allowing the sharing of data on Skydrive. Skydrive works on Windows, Windows Phone, Android, iOS, and OSX. MS has also handed out the APIs, to allow developers to integrate Skydrive into their own products. Not only software products, but websites can be developed to make use of Skydrive. Apple better than MS at integration...pffff. That's hilarious. Where does Apple stand with integration outside their little ecosystem? You take a picture with your iPhone and that picture is instantly on your iMac. Great. Can't you also view that on an Android tablet? Windows box? Windows phone? A random computer at an internet cafe? Way above...ya right. Apple is way below MS with integration. Just because you've never used it, doesn't mean it's not there.

    MS software also uses the same shortcuts for their products. Majority of their shortcuts will work between the different software. Why? Simply cause it's a Windows shortcut, not an application specific shortcut. So many of those shortcuts work in any Windows program.

    Word is complicated for those doing complex work. If you don't use all the features, don't worry about it and use it like the gimped version called Pages. Year after year, Apple has had to add features that were already available on Word. By the time Pages support the same features as Word, it's going to be just as complicated.

    Integration...got that. Shortcuts...got that. How about convenience? I've got that. Does Apple users? Take for example, I'm walking around and end up seeing a friend at the Food Court. He's just got a usb key, on his keychain, with some documents he wants me to look at. I'm carrying around my iPad. How can I get a copy of those documents, right there?

  • 1

    flammenwerfer

    I don't know what worse: Jehovah witness banging on my door or apple fan boys on the interwebs banging on about amazing their gadgets are. You like you shiny gorgeously designed revolutionary products. we all get it, This thread is not about your love of your products - we simply don't care, Please shut up.

    This is about stock market and it would appear apple stock is coming back to a more realistic level, it's not going to completely crumble as this sensational headline indicates - spiral? hardly. Apple are doing very well with their ipads, iphones, and macbok pro's and will continue to do well. They are not going to be SONY anytime soon.

  • 0

    lostrune2

    Guys, it's just another tech bubble catching up. People should've learned by now - happens all the time in tech, from Microsoft to the dot-coms to Google and now to Apple. It's just hard to sustain something so high for so long in the tech industry. Eventually, things catch up and then normalize. Because it's the same stupid people in Wall Street that hype up the stock prices - and nobody can keep up with those people's ever increasing return expectations, so eventually those people grow tired of it, then the stock prices normalize.

  • 2

    Serrano

    What's the world's most valuable company again?

  • 2

    BertieWooster

    Korlacan Khanthavilay,

    Maybe it might be an idea to glance at my post again.

    Note the difference between innovation and invention. These are different things.

    The iPod was not vastly different to other MP3 players out at the time. I didn't say Apple invented the MP3 player, it was not an invention, it was an innovation, per the definition quoted in my post above. A vital part of the iPod was not just the MP3 player itself, but the whole business plan of iTunes. This was innovation. Prior to the iPod and iTunes, downloading music meant illegal downloads, stolen music. iTunes made downloading music reputable. Music companies bought into it. Suddenly everybody was wearing white earbuds.

    The iPod then developed along various paths, one was the iPhone, another was the iPad. These are innovative products.

    In case you say that the iPad was just a tablet and there were tablets before the iPad, these things are not the same at all. The iPad is not a tablet. It's entirely different. In any case, if you want to talk tablets, the Newton was out way before any Microsoft tablet.

    As for the iMac, the first one was not a major overhaul of hardware, it was a cutesy retro TV all in one computer. But it was cute enough to sell enough to bring Apple back from the brink. Then, it too developed to be almost unrecognisable. Check out the new iMacs. More people than just me are enthusiastic about these new machines.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/baig/2012/12/04/new-apple-imac-review/1745043/

  • -5

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    What company lost $125 billion in value again?

  • 1

    morrison_rm

    //What's the world's most valuable company again?

    Probably something in defence in reality, as we seem to have a lot more wars these days.

    But, I digress. Both of the main "tech" companies seem to be having an interesting time these days. Mac because they gave up on their USP of "we have our own operating system" because it's Linux under the hood, so they are trying to get someone to pay for a system that is usually free. MS because they ignored smart phones, are late on the tablet market and Windows 8 isn't currently flying off the shelves.

    What's next, probably more of the same, as both companies have the cash to sit it out.

  • 0

    choiwaruoyaji

    Living in Japan, I want a mobile phone that will help me find the meaning of the kanji I encounter in my job and in everyday life. I want to input kanji I don't know and find the meaning quickly.

    For me, this is a basic requirement of a smartphone in Japan.

    Apple's iPhone is hopeless at this... really useless.

    In fact, your best bet is an Android phone: Galaxy Note II

    It is absolutely superb... and helps my life in Japan immeasurably.

    Apple's iPhone is not even in the same league.

  • 0

    skroknog

    No jobs without Jobs.

  • 1

    zichi

    What company lost $125 billion in value again?

    but still has $117 billion cash-in-hand?

  • -2

    lwsydney

    It cracks me up people talking about this stuff being over-hyped. Isn't apple's middle name over hyped? Apple devices have always been rather mediocre and overpriced. Heck half of the things they release as 'new technology' have existed for a long time, especially withtheir phones.

  • 1

    globalwatcher

    Still under valued. The cash reserve alone is worth $130. I buy it.

  • -2

    volland

    Lots of good news today, this one is the best so far.....

  • 1

    YuriOtani

    Stock value is not important in the short run. Day traders are going to get fleeced and the steady handed will make another million or so by buying low. Investing is not about short term gain but long term growth. Just think what you would have if invested $100k in Microsoft or Apple in the 80's? You could have some steady long term income.

  • 1

    LostinNagoya

    Guys, it's just another tech bubble catching up. People should've learned by now - happens all the time in tech, from Microsoft to the dot-coms to Google and now to Apple. It's just hard to sustain something so high for so long in the tech industry. Eventually, things catch up and then normalize. Because it's the same stupid people in Wall Street that hype up the stock prices - and nobody can keep up with those people's ever increasing return expectations, so eventually those people grow tired of it, then the stock prices normalize.

    Absolutely right. I read more than one analysis saying exactly what you said: it's not Apple, but the distorted perspective Wall Street sees companies.

  • -1

    2020hindsights

    iPod, was no different than any other mp3 player during that time. The iPhone was no different than any other touch/multitouch phone when it released.

    Except one thing. They sold many times more than anything else that was there before. In fact people can't remember what was there before because they are irrelevant.

    Can you buy songs from the Sony Store? No. And you would think that Sony would have pioneered something like that because they are a content provider. Nope. Apple did. Sony only allowed they songs to be sold on the iTunes store this year in Japan. Too busy fighting change.

  • -1

    2020hindsights

    morrisson_rm

    Mac because they gave up on their USP of "we have our own operating system" because it's Linux under the hood, so they are trying to get someone to pay for a system that is usually free.

    Umm, no. The Mac OS isn't based on Linux at all. It is based on NextStep, which is a different Unix variant.

  • -2

    basroil

    2020hindsightsDec. 07, 2012 - 08:41AM JST

    Can you buy songs from the Sony Store? No.

    Wrong, Sony Pressplay started long before iTunes, and CONNECT ran after that. The main issue was that iTunes cartel controlled the upload rights to ipods, and Rhapsody controlled the other devices, so Sony used Rhapsody for most things (since 2002, a full year before apple became a copycat)

  • -2

    basroil

    YuriOtaniDec. 07, 2012 - 06:48AM JST

    Stock value is not important in the short run. Day traders are going to get fleeced and the steady handed will make another million or so by buying low. Investing is not about short term gain but long term growth. Just think what you would have if invested $100k in Microsoft or Apple in the 80's? You could have some steady long term income.

    Very true, but at this point long term growth looks to be over. There's only so much in market cap you can gain before the market caps you. With long term outlooks weak, investors look elsewhere, and that's the downturn we've seen this last month.

  • 0

    2020hindsights

    basroil

    Wrong, Sony Pressplay started long before iTunes...

    PressPlay? Yeah, I do remember that. The most idiotic music store offering from Universal and Sony came out a year before iTunes store but the paranoid music companies definitely didn't want you to enjoy music on it.

    To quote PCWorld:

    Digital music is such a great idea that even record companies finally, begrudgingly accepted it after years of implacable opposition. In 2002, two online services backed by music industry giants proposed giving consumers a legitimate alternative to illegal file sharing. But the services' stunningly brain-dead features showed that the record companies still didn't get it.

    PressPlay charged $15 per month for the right to listen to 500 low-quality audio streams, download 50 audio tracks, and burn 10 tracks to CD. It didn't sound like an awful deal, until you found out that not every song could be downloaded, and that you couldn't burn more than two tracks from the same artist.

    Neither service's paltry music selections could compete against the virtual feast available through illicit means. Several billion illegal downloads later, an outside company--Apple, with its iTunes Music Service--showed the record companies the right way to market digital music.

  • 0

    BertieWooster

    Korlacan Khanthavilay,

    What company lost $125 billion in value again?

    That has more to do with Obama's forthcoming taxes than Apple computer.

  • 0

    BertieWooster

    This is what I mean.

    This is why the stock dropped:

    http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/obama-warns-of-human-cost-of-fiscal-cliff

    People want to move their money around before they get a massive tax bill on the 1st of January 2013.

  • -1

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    but still has $117 billion cash-in-hand?

    And? Is that suppose to be amazing or something? When you don't hand out dividends, you easily stockpile cash. They finally started handing out dividends in 2012. Last time before that was in 95 and earlier. They were just handing out pennies per share. $117 bill. Pffff...that's all they could accumulate without handing out dividends.

    MS gives out dividends like crazy and they have $55 billion. If they did like Apple, they'd probably have like $250+ billion. $117 billion isn't impressive.

    Also, analysts already predict Apple's stock will fall to $420, maybe further. That's pretty funny, seeing as that's exactly where I said it'd fall. Into the $400ish area. http://www.cnbc.com/id/100286054

  • -2

    James Botham

    God you (cr)Apple fan boys really do my head in with your "Windows crashes all the time" this is not Windows 98 anymore Windows 7 is solid as a rock, even Vista was pretty solid (but slow) and XP SP2+ is a stable operating system. You realise that a "blue screen of death" is a kernel panic, the same happens on your "stable OS X" the only difference is you get told how to turn your computer off and on again in 10 language. When I have fixed BSOD on Windows in he past it has generally been down to hardware or drivers 99% of the time, you know because Microsoft support literally billions of combinations of hardware unlike Apple so give them some credit.

    Remember Mac OS System 9, that crashed constantly it was a dreadful OS and about the same period as when Windows was massively unstable in the late 90s and early 2000s.

    I have my Windows 8 laptop here 30+ days uptime, all I do is close the lid twice a day move it from work to home and open it up again, it "just works", I have servers back at the office with 470+ days uptime on them (web server that serve millions of page hits a day).

    And don't get me started on security, Apple have 3 of the top 10 worldwide vulnerabilities last month and they are biggies in core products (iTunes and Quicktime) and Java own most of the rest and Microsoft aren't even in the list because they cleaned up these issues and sorted themselves out years ago and consider in this time frame Windows 8 was launched.

    You Apple fanboys like to just pick fault with Microsoft, you do realise they run most of the systems behind all of the consumer crap your devices consume don't you, if it isn't Microsoft it will be a Linux deriative of some form. Apple don't make the back end infrastructure they just consume content so without all of these servers and devices you hate your Apple device would do virtually nothing!!

  • -1

    basroil

    Looks like the downward spiral just became "jump off a cliff": http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/12/us-patent-office-declares-steve-jobs.html

    For the uninitiated, that's the second patent to be tentatively invalidated, the other being the box with round corners patent. In other words, Apple will likely lose the appeals in the Samsung case and end up with next to nothing (or even have to pay for Samsung's lawyers) compared with the $1.5billion originally sought.

    Too bad the USPTO decided to wait until after the markets closed to announce it, if not we would have seen a healthy 5% drop on top of yesterday's 6%.

  • 0

    zichi

    Apple's stock prices have traded poorly over the past week but its still up 66% since the beginning of last year, and up 33% year to date. Apple are still $100 billion bigger than the No2 company.

  • 0

    zichi

    Those Microsoft fans who are so concerned about the price of Apple stock could sell their Apple stocks now, or hang in there and wait for the price to go back up.

  • -1

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    What it traded for in the past doesn't mean crap right now. Apple's stock is dropping. If you are surprised, you're an idiot. Their stock was overvalued and it still is. There simply wasn't anything in Apple's portfolio to skyrocket it's stock to it's peak. The only reason it was climbing, because brokers kept buying it. They kept buying it, cause it was climbing. Think they found the error of their ways and the market is simply correcting itself now.

    As I said, I expect it to drop down to the $400ish area. If lucky, it doesn't continue dropping like a rock. I mean, it'll definitely keep dropping, but it'll simply be a casual drop over the years. Probably 2015, their stock will be at the $200ish area. Unless Apple is able to bring a new compelling product to market. i just don't see that currently, but who knows.

    iPhone and iPad keep losing ground to Android, we'll keep seeing their stock drop with it. iPod is solid, so that won't do much. Macs...well, they barely ever sold much and nothing has changed their. Still sitting at 5-6% of the market. Apple TV, not even sure why they still sell that. Nothing Apple is doing shows a good enough reason for their stock to increase. Only shows a reason to decrease.

    Please zichi, if you think it's going to go back up, explain why you think such.

  • 1

    zichi

    @Korlacan Khanthavilay

    Please zichi, if you think it's going to go back up, explain why you think such.

    If you not happy with the current value of your Apple Stock then you should seek financial advise about selling them, especially if you have to pay the new capital gains tax next year.

  • 0

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    So in other words, you have absolutely zero explanation. Thanks, got it.

  • -1

    LostinNagoya

    So in other words, you have absolutely zero explanation. Thanks, got it.

    Your post about market share @ 06:20 also is close to nothing, full of empty "I think" facts. So, don't call anyone "idiot" when you yourself has not written anything worth of facts about market shares. The only thing you did was to put your biased personal opinion towards Apple into this news and try to make it sound plausible.

  • 0

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    @LostinNagoya

    Stocks are all opinion based. I think their stock will keep dropping. I gave my opinion on why I think it'll drop. He said it'll go back up and then gives zero explanation why he thinks such. Which is essentially every single one of his posts, which makes his post essentially useless on the topic.

    When forecasting a stock, you simply look at what is currently happening. How they're products are doing, how their stocks are doing, anything new they plan to push into the market. It's all subjective. Every single analyst out there is full of "I think" facts. Empty? Hardly. As I said, you look at how the company is doing. I of course am not getting into the nitty gritty like an actual financial analyst, but so far. They've came up with the same conclusions as me.

    If you think what I said is, full of empty "I think" facts, then explain to me why. Everything I stated is based on how the company is doing. There is no "I think" about how their stocks are dropping. There is no "I think" about how their iPhone is losing ground to Android. There is no "I think" about how their iPad is losing ground to Android. All that is based on factual data from multiple organizations who track these records.

  • 1

    Himajin

    'God you (cr)Apple fan boys really do my head in with your "Windows crashes all the time" this is not Windows 98 anymore Windows 7 is solid as a rock, even Vista was pretty solid (but slow) and XP SP2+ is a stable operating system. You realise that a "blue screen of death" is a kernel panic, the same happens on your "stable OS X" the only difference is you get told how to turn your computer off and on again in 10 language. '

    Never happened. I have never had a problem ever with a Mac like i had with Windows, I used both extensively...Japanese office environments are 99% Windows, and I have owned both types of computers. Windows has had constant hiccups, always excused by Windows fans, but really not worth all the hassle in my estimation. Vista was a total PITA...I won't even try 7 I'm so sick of Windows, I think 15 years is enough time to make up one's mind.

  • -1

    midnull

    Don't worry guys! This happens to all the big companies.

  • -1

    basroil

    http://news.yahoo.com/microsoft-apple-butt-heads-over-skydrive-app-ios-124525977.html

    Looks like Apple's looking at a major loss next few quarters the way they are hounding companies for THEIR hard earned money. Apple only keeps a copy of the app (few MB, pennies to service and store) and yet wants 30% of the revenue from subscription services entirely hosted by another company (and it's quite expensive to host). Not only that, but they are holding the app hostage and refusing Microsoft's new updates that completely do away with subscriptions until they pay! I'm pretty sure they are trying to prove their app process is in violation of anti-mob and anti-trust laws in dozens of countries.

    With news like this, of course apple is gonna fall.

  • -1

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    @midnull

    Yes. Every large tech company has gone through the process of having their stocks inflated to crazy levels, only for them to drop back down and level out.

  • 0

    Elbuda Mexicano

    Competition is good! I like Apple but I don't want th to get lazy! You know, like SONY! Who goes out of their way to buy Sony MP3 players now??? So my guess is that long as Apple keeps on its toes feels the heat from Samsung, etc.. we should not BS such as the price of stocks etc..and actually worry if our Apple products are superior to Samsung, Sony, Phillips etc...right??

  • -2

    Korlacan Khanthavilay

    I'd get a Sony MP3 player, if it wasn't so expensive. I'm looking at Cowon MP3 players now. Apple and Samsung MP3 players are nothing more than their phones, without phone capabilities. It's not something I want, cause they tend to be mediocre mp3 players. Too much of an all-around product and not really geared towards just playing mp3s.

    Also, Apple products aren't superior to well...anyone's products really. They're the same. It's all just consumer opinion on whether they are superior or not. Spec wise, everythings on par, roughly. Some better for Apple, some better for the competition.

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