Japan successfully launches new rocket with 1st unmanned cargo vehicle

Friday 11th September, 06:22 AM JST

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OssanAmerica at 02:29 AM JST - 12th September

Nkorea will be watching closely to see if the UN will slap sanctions on Japan for this launching which is clearly a cover for a missle launch in preparation of their imperialist re-invasion of the Asian mainland.
mushroomcloud at 09:49 AM JST - 12th September

Good to hear that Japan is getting their house in order as far as space is concerned. I remember how hard many were laughing when Japan's rocket had to be detonated in Nov 2003, 1 month after China sent their first man to space.

Perhaps Japan might be within grasp to send their own people to space independently now, 6-10 years after China did it, and over 40 years after both the US and Russia.

In regards to manned space flight, Japan being in 4th place is certainly better than being in no place at all (as is currently the case).
OssanAmerica at 11:21 AM JST - 12th September

Perhaps Japan might be within grasp to send their own people to space >independently now, 6-10 years after China did it, and over 40 years >after both the US and Russia.

Japan has no need to do so since they've had astronauts in space onboard the shuttle as they work with Nasa since 1985 and 8 Japanese astronauts have been in space. China, not being a US ally had to do what the US and USSR did 40 years earlier.
nimbus at 11:32 AM JST - 12th September

Japan will launch a total of seven domestically made HTV single-use vehicles through 2015, one each year.

Single-use vehicles
nimbus at 11:34 AM JST - 12th September

My post seems to have left out a sentence. It should read:

Single-use vehicles? Does this means more space junk in orbit?
japaneseno1 at 12:33 PM JST - 12th September

i wonder if it is hard for japan(a developed country) to send their own astronauts to space like china( a developing country) did.
the_harper at 01:33 PM JST - 12th September

nimbus; my understanding is that the vehicles will be deorbited and burned up in the atmosphere just like the ESA supply vehicle and (AFAIK) the Russian ones.
UnagiDon at 10:45 PM JST - 12th September

i wonder if it is hard for japan(a developed country) to send their own astronauts to space like china( a developing country) did.

It's not hard to do so - China's launches are not a technological triumph by any means as they are essentially using capsules built from the same type the USSR used. It's more a question of need and will to do so. As a developing country based around virulent nationalism, China needs to show it has this capability for domestic purposes and speak to its inferiority complex re the outside world. Japan, on the other hand, is a socially-stable developed nation with the technological prowess to do it, but has instead chosen to join up with the US and others, even though it could (technically) develop its own manned program.

Anyone who thinks that China's space program is technically superior to Japan's or the US, ESA, or even Russia's, has been buyng into too much PRC propaganda or is blinded by some irrational contempt for Japan, both of which we see a lot here on JT.
mushroomcloud at 01:41 AM JST - 13th September

I guess the main point here is that Japan has been grumbling and feeling cast in China's shadow ever since China launched it's manned space program, since they (the Japanese) don't have one of their own. All this talk of choosing to go the non-manned way is just sour grapes from a Japan that has lost it's confidence in the world, and is scrambling desperately to find it's way.

Japan being cast as the known 2nd rate space power in Asia behind China is a hard one to swallow (for the Japanese), no matter how you look at it.
UnagiDon at 07:43 AM JST - 13th September

mushroomcloud;

Japan being cast as the known 2nd rate space power in Asia behind China is a hard one to swallow (for the Japanese), no matter how you look at it.

I would agree if your basic premise that Japan is the "known 2nd rate space power in Asia" were held widely, but other than PRC propagandists and others (see the last sentence of my previous post), it is held by very, very few people. Wishing something is true doesn't make it so.

Yes, China has a manned program, but other than its space program has very little going for it other than the ability to shoot down satellites (the Chinese manned program is basically military). It is a Cold War-type space race, except that nobody is racing them so the self-congratulatory backslaps are a little hollow. Japan has a modern, advanced space program as evidenced by the HTV, robotics, and its deep space missions, not to mention the significant role it plays in the ISS. Where is the "Chinese module" of the ISS?
mushroomcloud at 08:38 AM JST - 13th September

UnagiDon,

China isn't allowed on the ISS because the US fears that China will try to steal the technology contained within that station. I'd like to phrase it another way, but it is what it is.

In as far as Japan being viewed as the '2nd rate space power in Asia', or, better phrased as "being in China's shadow", perhaps it is just a viewpoint from the American and international press, as opposed to 'PRC propagandists' as you claim. And I quote:

"Japan has long been one of the world's leading space-faring nations — having launched its first satellite in 1970 — but it has been struggling to get out from under China's shadow in recent years and gain a niche in the global rocket-launching business, which is dominated by Russia, the U.S. and Europe's Arianespace."

"Struggling under a relatively small budget — the Japanese equivalent of U.S. $2 billion in 2008 — Japan has watched rival China march ahead with high-profile manned flights and is now seeing a growing rival in India, which has set its sights on reaching the moon."

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2009-01-12-japan-satellite_N.htm

"TANEGASHIMA, Japan -- Fifteen months after Japan's last liftoff ended in a spectacular fireball, an orange and white H-2A rocket blasted off Saturday on a mission officials hope will revive this country's once-proud space program — now languishing in China's shadow."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1109434641481_105

Maybe the US and international press simply were paid off by the 'PRC propagandists?
mushroomcloud at 09:46 AM JST - 13th September

Oh wait, there's more:

"In Japan, the Shenzhou V launch was met with disbelief and anxiety that continues to reverberate among scientific and political circles. "We were surprised," says Masashi Okada, a launch-systems engineer at the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA), the country's equivalent of NASA. "Obviously we knew they were working toward it, but they achieved manned flight very quickly." Japan's own space program had been in decline for years, hobbled by a habit of following the U.S.'s lead and by domestic regulatory barriers that bar programs with potential military applications. Between 1999 and 2004, the space program's budget had fallen nearly 30% to $1.8 billion, roughly one-tenth of NASA's annual budget. Despite having the world's second-largest economy, Japan has focused mainly on scientific research and telecommunications projects."

"Tachikawa acknowledges that China's recent feats in space have been a powerful motivator for Japan to pursue an aggressive program of its own. "There are countries which have manned spacecraft, like Russia and the U.S., and those who don't," he says. "China beat us to it, so it is plainly 1-0. We are fully aware that our space-development program has to include manned spacecraft."

"It may wound Japanese national pride that China has pulled ahead in such a technologically complex field, but in Japan, many question whether the scientific and economic payoff of an expanded space program justifies either the risks or the expense. "

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1115727-2,00.html

Granted, the quotes from this Time magazine article are indeed a few years old, but it sums up Japan's manned space program (or lack therof) from the viewpoint of their leading scientists.

Time to catch up.
UnagiDon at 11:50 PM JST - 13th September

MushroomCloud;

China isn't allowed on the ISS because the US fears that China will try to steal the technology contained within that station. I'd like to phrase it another way, but it is what it is.

That may be part of it, but the primary reason is that China has nothing to contribute, or more accurately had nothing to contribute when the ISS concept came together in the early 90s, plus China was still in the international dog-house post-Tienanmen Square. That's why the US, Japan, ESA, Canada joined up with Russia - even Brazil was invited to join the program.

In as far as Japan being viewed as the '2nd rate space power in Asia', or, better phrased as "being in China's shadow", perhaps it is just a viewpoint from the American and international press, as opposed to 'PRC propagandists' as you claim. And I quote:

I think maybe the problem was your use of "2nd rate" which has a totally different connotation than "2nd place". Nothing in what you've provided shows Japan's program as being technically inferior as "2nd rate" would imply, rather these articles point out that Japan is behind China in MANNED space, which I would agree with. But why not anything more recent? It's simply less of a concern than you would like to think it is.

Time to catch up

That I would agree with, but that's a political and economic decision for the Japanese to make, and only if they see merit in a manned program beyond issues of national prestige which is the main driver behind China's manned space program.
mushroomcloud at 12:06 AM JST - 14th September

UnagiDon,

I'm in general agreement with all your responses.
dontpanic at 08:59 PM JST - 16th September

I remember the HII firework from the late 90s. Good to see things are better. I sense money to be made here.