Lawson begins installing electric-vehicle chargers

Tuesday 04th August, 06:28 AM JST

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Statistician at 10:36 AM JST - 4th August

This will be great if you own an electric car.
Den Den at 11:37 AM JST - 4th August

Well down Lawsons! Everyone else, time to follow...
yokomoc at 11:46 AM JST - 4th August

Smart to move to get an early share of the market. They'll introduce charges once the vehicles get more popular. Good on them for stepping up anyway.
kaminarikeizai at 02:06 PM JST - 4th August

Now, Gas stations should start a small convenience store. Tit for tat.

A lot of customers go to convenience store by bicycle. What’s the plan for them? In near future convenience store may start bicycle repairing and air pump facilities.
sf2k at 02:55 PM JST - 4th August

there isn't enough lithium on the planet to make enough electric cars. It'll be nice for the vehicles that exist though. Yeah, go for a bike, or more of a foldup bike. (I used one for a year, what a blast)

So many Lawson are right by a Joho so why not a bike tune-up station or parts? More profitable than losing yen on electric cars.
Davin at 03:26 PM JST - 4th August

there isn't enough lithium on the planet to make enough electric cars

What you should know about lithium is that it’s not actually rare. In the crust, it’s more common than lead, which everyone knows from ever-common lead-acid batteries.

http://gas2.org/2008/10/13/lithium-counterpoint-no-shortage-for-electric-cars/
cnc at 07:19 AM JST - 5th August

they charge 100yen / 10min to charge your phone. A system that was free in the beginning. I can say that they will charge 1000yen / 10min to charge your car once they are popular.
elbudamexicano at 04:30 PM JST - 5th August

Sounds nice, now who in Japan actually owns, or will own an electric car? I do not even see hybrids that much here in Tokyo, let alone electric ones. I guess Lawson just wants to look GREEN, friendly to the planet etc..
Himajin at 04:38 PM JST - 5th August

I drive a hybrid and I see quite a few around here in Kobe.
sf2k at 06:26 AM JST - 6th August

there isn't enough lithium on the planet to make enough electric cars

What you should know about lithium is that it’s not actually rare. In the crust, it’s more common than lead, which everyone knows from ever-common lead-acid batteries.

http://gas2.org/2008/10/13/lithium-counterpoint-no-shortage-for-electric-cars/

While an interesting link, it concerns me that there is no mention of the technology required to get it? Especially when due to Peak Oil, the diesel fueled mining operation runs out of fuel in the next few short years? Lithium is a battery, not a fuel source. There are no electric powered drills to use to get it, thus liquid fuels would be wasted to get lithium. In turn the lithium is only a battery not a power source, and cannot make up the losses to the operation.

That's just getting it out of the earth or oceans, then you have to transport it, smelt it, and refine it etc, all taking loads of energy, all not using electricity, all liquid fuels.

Unfortunately society runs on oil, not electrification, and you'd have to swap out the oil system for electric systems over 7 decades for this to work at reducing liquid fuels. But there isn't enough copper (Peak Copper) to send the electricity to all these fictional mining operations.

This continues to be the cornucopian view, that 'technology will save us' but it doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. So Much Easier to not waste all that energy to begin with, save the oil for medicines and things we really need instead of burning it, and just STOP DRIVING and take the train, bike or walk.

any operation like mining cannot work indefinitely and are subject to various laws (Second Law of Thermodynamics = no free lunch)

So while the lithium may be there, our capacity to use it has long since vanished.
sf2k at 06:41 AM JST - 6th August

there might be enough for public vehicles (buses, police, fire, ambulance etc) but not for private use and the billions of people out there.

You could go with super capacitor research instead, and avoid the mining problem all together. That would certainly be more productive in the long term as it would used recycled materials, not new ore, and thus a better Energy Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI)

even then, by making cities walkable and liveable like in Japan and Europe this removes the need. So few people in Tokyo and Hong Kong drive because of density and because of capable transit, thus an EV will always be marginal.
sf2k at 06:43 AM JST - 6th August

Sources: Transport Revolutions: Moving People and Freight without Oil (2007)
Davin at 12:18 PM JST - 6th August

sf2k, I will have to say you have changed my way of thinking on this issue!

The World needs to work on harnessing the ocean's power, it is free and abundant!
sf2k at 09:48 AM JST - 7th August

Thanks Davin, I'm trying to be clear. I also appreciate your link as it keeps the debate lively. To be fair I read a lot on the subject ;) (Peak Oil, urban design, and technology)

As it happens http://Kunstercast.com episode #74 was released today and discussed Electric cars. JHK is a bit more feisty about it and I don't agree 100%, but overall it provides more cannon to burst our delusions with.

I should point out that I'm all for electric cars if it was 1985, but it's 2009, and we're past the point where the scale of these fine projects just won't work anymore across whole countries or regions. We want them to succeed but we forget scale. In doing so we're unfortunately setting ourselves up for some major disappointment.

GM had the ball in '96 with the EV-1 but lost it. They're not getting it back and we're out of time since world population is beyond the scale we could ever hope to meet.

If for example we spend $100 billion on the prospect of (only) 4 million cars that might work, evenly distributed worldwide, which is clearly not that many per country! More cars than that is just impossible. We don't have the money anymore nor other materials which erode from underneath their possibilities.

Now that the "electric car nirvana" as Kunstler puts it isn't coming, consider how transit can be managed.

Again, Japan works fantastic even now due to population and their relationship with trains. Japan doesn't need and doesn't have 80% population dependency on cars, so these few electric cars with the help of Lawson will work just fine. But the same concept, scaled, will not fly here in Toronto or elsewhere (imagine LA?), since we're just not geared for 80% to public transit. The scale can't work.

Hope that makes sense.

Another gem is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY which is Population, Growth and Energy which is worth the view. The math ends at about the 6th episode so I'd encourage anyone to stick through it. Very funny and insightful. My answer to the video list is "education".

Dealing with the exponential is the same as scale.
Davin at 09:02 PM JST - 8th August

Just finished watching "Arithmetic, Population, and Energy.", Very educational, this should be required watching for all high school and university students!