Microsoft to let PC users turn off IE web browser

Monday 09th March, 11:09 PM JST

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FreeInJapan at 09:02 PM JST - 10th March

Likeitis - Well, I suppose since you so clearly don't care for Windows, you could probably start with your user account... ;-D
likeitis at 09:37 PM JST - 10th March

What exactly are they "picking and choosing to be fair about?"

They are providing people with a product that is not necessary for an OS to have. Its not even a basic version, but rather their best. This is hurting the makers of web browsers. MS is choosing to be unfair to the browser market.

They are NOT providing a word processor short of a very basic version of Word. Their top end word processor must be bought separately. For makers of word processors, this is fair.

What rules specifically are you referring too? The ones you claim they are ignoring in order to keep the playing field unfair...

I never said they were ignoring rules. I said they were not playing fair. What is fair is not always decided by set rules. Here it is being determined by antitrust regulators.

And companies aren't allowed to give their own products special consideration any more?

It is the way they are doing it that is the problem. They are not giving consumers any choice but to purchase IE bundled with Windows. Most users will not search for a different browser, even if they would rather have one, because they already bought one.

In a way, MS is a victim of their own success. Their OS has become the world PC standard. Regulators are not going to leave them alone. Nor should they.

I guess by your logic I can go tell AU that they have to let me use a DoCoMo phone on their network now, right? Sweet, DoCoMo phones are cooler! No wonder companies are failing left and right! They must have found out they had to promote everyone elses' product over their own!!

And you are accusing me of not understanding tech?? Those companies don't make phones. Their business IS their network.

Yes, it is a fact that MS does not currently bundle Windows with competing web browsers.

And nobody said they should!

They also in no way prevent customers who buy Windows from selecting the web browser of their choice and using it as the DEFAULT web browser.

Yes. BUT WHAT PART OF "YOU ALREADY BOUGHT IE" IS NOT GETTING THROUGH TO YOU" How many people are going to go out and pay money for a second browser when they have already paid for a top-end browser bundled with Windows?

I suspect that you understand just fine. I suspect that you are just driving this in circles to be a pest.

And Apple doesn't have a big enough market share to be considered one of the big boys? Did you tell them that?

No. I have not told Apple WHAT ARE YOU WORDS AND NOT MINE AND TOTALLY UNRELATED TO ANYTHING I SAID. What I said was that their market share of the OS market is not like that of MS.

Guess what a smartphone is... it's a device that has a processor, memory, storage device, and an OS. Wow, that's a PC!!

A PC that an overwhelming number of users cannot use like a PC and won't attempt to. At this time, and let me repeat that, AT THIS TIME, the markets are totally different.

I still find it funny how no one can intelligently counter my case that Safari being the only allowed Web Browser on the iPhone/Touch products being a monopoly, by your loose definition of the word.

Except that I already intelligently countered it. Apparently what you did not understand is what I meant by building it from the ground up. Those are complete products, completely made by Apple, sold complete. A PC is different. There are many manufactuers of generic PCs. Those PCs can accept various OSs, because the manufacturers made them that way.

If MS got into the PC making business and built and sold PCs completely loaded with MS products, were capable of using only MS products and their prices fairly reflected all those products, no one could complain. But I seriously doubt MS could do that without pissing off so many people that they would get destroyed. MS got where it is via many independent companies working together to create the majority of the PC/software market that we know today. IT is a market of compatibility and a fairly level playing field, EXCEPT for MS dominance of the OS market. Yet here we have MS screwing over browser makers for some reason.

Did you know that IE is actually BUILT IN to Windows?

Yeah. I know. And of all the space waste in the program, I would harldy think separating them would cause any real problems. There is no real reason to integrate them, save maybe to screw over browser makers.
likeitis at 09:56 PM JST - 10th March

You asked me to prove that Apple sued anyone over the use of OSX. Do a search for Apple vs Psystar,

Pystar was hacking the MAC OS and selling it unauthorized! They were also making MAC capable machines without authorization! They were using and altering Apple intellectual property to make money while not paying Apple a dime!

Since Apple does it all from start to finish, they don't have to play with anyone. They want no interaction of this type. Their doors are closed, and no one can demand they open them. But if they ever do, they will be bound to interact fairly.

MS has to interact because that is the nature of their business. Since they interact, they must do so fairly.
FreeInJapan at 11:39 PM JST - 10th March

@Likeitis - Well, so sorry to be a "pest". I guess it must be frustrating for you to have someone constantly provide fact to your desperate fiction.

"They are providing people with a product that is not necessary for an OS to have. Its not even a basic version, but rather their best." - Wait... I just laughed so hard I almost wet myself again! Seriously, you've gotta stop this, I'm running out of clean underwear! Ok, so by this statement, I take it that you're getting Operating Systems confused with Web Browsers... there are no BASIC versions of IE, or any other browser that I know of. It's not Vista, there is no Basic, Premium or Ultimate. There are simply versions, just like FireFox and Safari.

"How many people are going to go out and pay money for a second browser when they have already paid for a top-end browser bundled with Windows?" - If you are paying money for any browser, then I have a few things of my own I'd like to sell you! What browsers, specifically, are you talking about having to pay for? Considering that the only ones I know of worth mentioning are all free, the only way your statement would make sense is if the user had to go out and buy physical media that contained the browser installation. Alternatively, they could simply use the included IE web browser to download the browser of their choice for, what a shocker, free. Then they can simply forget about IE, not all that difficult. If you had your way and Windows was shipped without any browser at all, any cost saved on Windows would be spent on having to go out/order, and purchase the physical media. Wow, what a step backwards... isn't the whole point of technology to continue moving forward? And if most users don't want to take the time to look for other browsers, whose fault is that? I would say the other browsers need to increase their efforts to advertise their product and make it more appealing, just like every single other consumer product. THAT seems fair, and just plain common sense.

"What I said was that their market share of the OS market is not like that of MS." -Of course not, considering the fact that Apple primarily focuses on the home user and is not considered proficient enough for business use, and that Microsoft markets itself to both home and business very well, it's very easy to see why Microsoft has such an edge.

"And you are accusing me of not understanding tech??" -Since I'm typing and not talking, I'm fairly certain I didn't studder... would it be better for you if I said "With the more you write, the more clear it becomes that you don't have a complete grasp on things that are technical."?

Part of what Microsoft argued in the Antitrust case against them in the U.S. was that IE has actually become an integrated part of the Windows OS, which was done for numerous reasons (supposedly to enhance the experience of the user and make it available for free among them). Therefore they argued that it's not actually "bundelled" with Windows, it is PART of Windows. Who are you to say they should have to re-engineer their OS? Part of the settlement they made with the DOJ is that they would open their API's to 3rd parties, allowing competitors to make their products work just as efficiently with Windows as Internet Explorer, or as in some cases MORE efficiently. Forgive me, but I still fail to see how this is unfair...

And by the way, "Those companies don't make phones." - Really? So, what's up with the insanely high price of handsets that supposedly are used to cover the cost of research and development of... phones? Also, did you know that Mac's are essentially 3rd party hardware stuck inside shiny white boxes? Well, maybe not so cut and dry I'll admit, but for the most part true. They hardly build their products "from the ground up". As for our iPhone/Touch argument, it actually IS opened up for developers outside of Apple... that is, to a point. You see, while Apple allows 3rd parties to create Apps compatible with these devices for sale/distrobution through the iTunes App Store, they are not allowed to make use of the actual deep level stuff that could allow the App to compete with actual iPhone features/applications. Kinda starting to sound like your "evil" Microsoft, isn't it? I brought up the Psystar vs Apple because, well, you asked me to provide you with an example. I never said that Psystar was 100% in the right, but you can't deny they have at least in some small way a valid point about Apple's own monopolizing practices. That is, if you're willing to concede that Apple and every one else should have to play by the same rules Microsoft does, but something tells me you won't be.

Well, I'm sure there's plenty more we could go tit-for-tat on, but to be honest I'm starting to get a little bored as in the end it's more futile than anything. Everyone needs a villain, and yours is apparently Microsoft, even though you admittedly continue to use their "high quality" product that you hate so much. But before I sign off, I just have to make one last comment... If IE is really wasting so much space on your hard drive, might I recommend that you upgrade your PC? You see, PC's nowadays have these spiffy new Hard Drives that hold whole Gigabytes of data...
bushlover at 05:28 AM JST - 11th March

I'm a Mac user and I can guarantee you all that not all of us are fanatics like likeitis is. I think he has some stability issues.
TokyoHustla at 05:50 AM JST - 11th March

Windows is the best OS ever, hands down. If it wasn't, why would it not have such a huge market share? The fact is, people love Windows and love having their software available. Most software is not available on Mac, because their OS is so difficult to use. If you use ProTools, get a Mac. That puts you in less than 1% of the population. The rest of us need Windows to do what we need. Our trading software will not run on Macs. Graphic design people are not really relevant and most firms could do without their whinging.
bushlover at 06:59 AM JST - 11th March

TokyoHustla is just a sheep to come out with a post like that. People like you deserve your Windows. Mac is Ok for me and less of a pain than those 'updates' to their OS. Microsoft doesn't own my computer. My macbook is for portability. My other big computer is for other things like running servers. And it works well as a desktop too. Use your IE if you want. But many of us don't want to be stuck with what you get. Your statement about 'not available on Mac.' is one of the excuses sheep like you use and Difficult to use? Well I guess you have never tried. You'd have to be pretty stupid not to be able to figure out how to use any gui OS mate.
soldave at 09:11 AM JST - 11th March

bushlover: "Use your IE if you want. But many of us don't want to be stuck with what you get." In that case just don't click on the IE icon. Install Chrome or Safari or Links or whatever you want

TokyoHustla - Think availability and homogenization (sp?) is one of the keys. The majority of PC users want familiarity between systems. Windows offers that on the whole due to them being so common, having similar basic menus for application etc. Am not getting into the people who are tech-savvy but just the everyday user.
likeitis at 01:55 PM JST - 11th March

FreeInJapan,

Look, if you buy a product bundled with another product, you are most likely paying for both products. Just because it is offered for free elsewhere does not mean a price has not been affixed in the bundle. Windows can offer it for free outside of the bundle because odds are they already sold it to you anyway via the bundle. Usually, all people get is an update really. Either way, they already paid for the license. Else, they have a jacked copy of Windows (not enough of those to fret about).

Windows can make you buy both products at one price because they have, for all intents and purposes (though maybe not strict definition), a monopoly.

This means that the only way anyone can compete with IE is to offer their product on the net without charge and make money through some other means. This is called, in layman's terms, utter bullcrap.

I really hope you did not wet yourself again reading that.
TrappedNTokyo at 02:22 PM JST - 11th March

@likeitis

Who cares! Look you buy a microsoft product and low and behold you recieve their browser. Do you really think that if there was a cost for IE since it was bundled with MS software that it really makes a difference. You argument is convaluded. If you are not happy with the browser download a different one for free, install it and disable IE. Are you the kind of guy that buys a car and then complains that you got an xyz air conditioner "bundled" with the car? So your answer is to sue the car manufacture cause they dared to equip the car with an xyz air conditioner instead of an abc air conditioner? You are arguing apples and oranges and anyone that complains that Microsoft has a monopoly then just man up, invent your own product, package it and advertise it. If people like it they buy it, if not then well you should re think what you are trying to sell. Bottom line is if you dont like it then dont buy it. But tying up courts with litigation and wasting time and money is not going to fix the problem.
Yasashihito at 02:59 PM JST - 11th March

Do you think any company is better than the next? They're all just looking for a way to cheat. Microsoft had a good game going on for a little, but now they have to figure out a different way to beat the competition, say... innovating, or, making a better product that doesn't crash every 2 seconds.
FreeInJapan at 03:21 PM JST - 11th March

Likeitis - zzzzzzzz... oh, wha...? Sorry, I dozed off when I realized you were just saying the same thing over and over again, regardless of what actual information is introduced by others. You want to continue to selectively apply your logic, and that's fine, just don't be upset when people stop taking you seriously because you make it too obvious that you don't actually know what you're ranting about.

@Yasashihito - Yeah, I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone like you jumped out with the "crashes, like, every 2 seconds man!" comment. I guess the horrid "instability" of all things Microsoft explains why Windows holds over 88% of the market share, to include the PRIMARY OS of all major businesses, globally. Because, you know, non-innovative, buggy, unstable software that crashes "every 2 seconds" as you claim is what's required to keep big bussiness going around the world. Wait, then again, considering today's economy my sarcastic statement could almost be true... ouch. Anyway, if you need something more to say, go back and refer to your trusty Macworld magazine for more baseless one liners about how bad Microsoft is. After all, Apple has to be the know all end all on all "true" things about Microsoft right? I hope one day you will be able to have an original thought, seriously, I do.

Well, this ride is obviously just gonna keep going round and round... starting to make me dizzy. Time to jump off and do something worthwhile.
likeitis at 08:32 PM JST - 11th March

TrappedNTokyo,

I don't want IE. I want to be able buy Windows at the cheaper price that it could be without IE. It is known as being able to choose my options and save money doing it. You don't like to save money? You don't like choose what you spend it on?

Can you buy cars cheaper without an A/C? Yes. And some people opt to do that you know.

FreeInJapan: regardless of what actual information is introduced by others.

Beyond you telling us about you peeing your pants, I do not see much actual information introduced. Not that any of it counters the points of my last post anyway.
jonnyboy at 11:14 PM JST - 12th March

the problem is not with IE as such, more with the aggressive way that microsoft began pushing it on customers. bear in mind that the vast majority of windows pc users are blissfully unaware that there are operating system options for pcs outside of windows. many don't even understand what an operating system is. when IE first appeared on windows it was accessible through a desktop icon that said "the internet", thus another attempt to detach consumers from the idea that they might have other options.

microsoft having domination of the browser market has allowed them to force further proprietary software onto users and tried to erode the "free and open" spirit of the internet. the internet is far too important to be controlled by commercial interests. by all means they should be allowed to operate on it, just not to have the vice like grip that microsoft has tried to have over it
glaspar at 11:14 AM JST - 13th March

i don't think there's a problem, cuz people will always find ways around it ... and I don't think MS is the evil tyrannical monster you all make it out to be ... not yet anyway... patience, people, patience!

Can you buy cars cheaper without an A/C? Yes. And some people opt to do that you know.

haha so sad!