2 Afghans, NATO soldier killed in Quran protest

Thursday 22nd May, 11:47 PM JST

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SezWho2 at 12:01 PM JST - 23rd May

Gee, another wonders why that would be relevant.

Might there not be a difference between an infidel soldier desecrating the words of the prophet, which could be understood as an insult to all of Islam, and any act of violence against particular people, which could be understood as attempt--misguided or not--to drive the infidels from the land?
SuperLib at 12:42 PM JST - 23rd May

Shall we add Sez's misguided attempts to justify the violence to the misguided violence?
Eulji_Mundeok at 12:48 PM JST - 23rd May

I'm actually torn between wanting to shoot up a Koran myself and having tremendous respect for Muslims who stand up and defend their faith in this manner (Christians are such weenies...).

and any act of violence against particular

(expendable!!)

people, which could be understood

(!!)

as attempt--misguided or not--

(gee, ya think?)

to drive infidels from the land?

Drive Shiite funeral processions and mosques from the land! Drive open-air market vendors from the land!
skipthesong at 01:03 PM JST - 23rd May

The next time I see a US flag, or any allies' flag being burned, I am going to go haywire! Because I will be offended. The next time someone calls a US president a devil, I am going to go nuts. Because I will be offended. The next time I hear of a bombing outside Islamic lands by some Jihadist, I am going to go berserk. Because you will hurt one of mine! The next time I hear of a judge being force to take down the ten commandments from a court house, I am going to go nuts - because you have disgraced Christianity. If I see some punk wearing a cross upside down from a necklace, I am going to pull it off of him. If I see a cross on a Tattoo not to my liking, I am going to sue. If I see or hear of any non-Islamic person/people being portrayed negatively in a movie, cartoon, or song, I am going to protest the studios. If you do not support my peaceful actions, I will consider you a bigot, have you fired from you job, and then cause bodily harm to you. And, lastly, if you or animal rights group disagrees with me cutting off heads of chickens, pigeons, and goats while I worship my mix of Christianity and native culture of my people, I am going to sue you, the blog you on, call the media to have you explain your deceitful bigotry. And, if you don't allow me to present my culture, language, religion, nor allow for at least one day out of the year to give praise, I am going to cause you bodily harm because you will now be considered a barbarian.

After all that, I am sure I would win the support of the usual appeasers.
skipthesong at 01:05 PM JST - 23rd May

Christians are such weenies..." that is very true. having tremendous respect for Muslims who stand up and defend their faith in this manner" that is a damn good point, but hey, people here have made it so only they can do that and not others.
adaydream at 01:50 PM JST - 23rd May

These people don't need any reasons to protest against American forces and then you have a dumb ass who wants to shoot up the Quran.

No I don't think it was a bad enough act to have protest and killings, but they don't listen to reason. They just take the opportunity to protest against the attackers. Sure I know that we initially took out the Taliban. But it's now an occupation in Afghanistan and we aren't making head way. Just occupying their country.

Then this damn dumb ass...
Zaphod at 02:42 PM JST - 23rd May

Daydream:

" But it's now an occupation in Afghanistan and we aren't making head way. Just occupying their country. "

It is not. "We" are there by invitation of the legitimate governmnent of Afghanistan. Problem is that that legitimate government government only control Kabul, while the jihadists with support from Pakistan keep growing.

I agree that "we" should get out of Afghanistan and stop chasing the fiction of a democratic muslim state. But not for the cartoonish reasons that you give.
skipthesong at 03:02 PM JST - 23rd May

adaydream: doesn't seem to me that they are protesting the occupation, it seems the incident has taken priority. What does that tell you?
SezWho2 at 05:16 PM JST - 23rd May

SuperLib,

Sure, go ahead and do that. That seems to be what you rather consistently do without examining the substance of what I am saying. Don't scruple yourself about the falsehood of your insinuations.
SezWho2 at 05:19 PM JST - 23rd May

skipthesong,

Are you saying that this is the way "they" are but that "we" are not like that. Humans are humans the world around and there are nutcases in every house. We have our own nutcases, but I'm sorry to hear that you're going to be joining them.
SezWho2 at 05:24 PM JST - 23rd May

Zaphod,

When "the legitimate government" of a country has been established and maintained through the force of our continuous occupation of a country, it is a little disingenuous to make much of the fact that we remain there at the request of such government.
skipthesong at 05:47 PM JST - 23rd May

but I'm sorry to hear that you're going to be joining them." No, you are not sorry. You will be tolerant of me. See, you go out of you way, to tell all that you are an open minded, enlightened, and tolerant of all fellow.

Now, as I unload my gripes on what offends me, my religion, my ways, and my culture, don't you think I have to right just like they do? Or are you only going to be one sided?

As they have their fathwa committee - I too will have some sort of committee that is basically judge and jury and enforcement, and you will tolerate it - because you are an open minded tolerant of all fellow.

As they have a gestapo like police force in every country they have control in, I too will have/start a police force and again, you will be down with it because you are so tolerant of all.

Humans are humans the world around and there are nutcases in every house." True, but we do not have to adhere to some 2000 year old doctrine and have it enforced by a police force and further enforced by the populace. You make this incident sound so small, but yet you have almost 1/4 the world's population screaming, and now killing, over a cartoon. Honestly, this with the film, and the Danish cartoons, the calls for death on the street of London... really, what is next and how are you going to defend them?

I don't get that there are people actually defending these actions.

Did you also know that your so called tolerance is very anti-Islamic.
SezWho2 at 07:06 PM JST - 23rd May

skipthesong,

Being tolerant does not preclude being sorry. I am in fact sorry to hear that you will be joining the rands of the perfervidly intolerant as I do not think that returning intolerance for intolerance is the way to go. Just as you have every right to feel as you do--but not necessarily the right to act on those feelings--I have the right to express my disappointment at hearing that hatred has won another convert.

Incidentally, I think things will go better if I tell you how I feel and you tell me how you feel. Your telling me how I feel doesn't work so well in my opinion.

You know, I really don't have 1/4 the world's population screaming. I think this incident, the Danish cartoons and the rather obvious missteps of the US in prosecuting the war on terrorism has that portion of the world screaming. Our demands that they stop screaming about this and start screaming about the incidents that we call atrocities are likely to be ineffective.

Furthermore, I don't think I am defending what we call atrocities when I point out that from the point of view of Middle Eastern and Asian Muslims the desecration of their holy material by those outside their faith may constitute a greater cause for grievance than specific acts of terrorism by those within their faith. Consider our own reaction to the Oklahoma city bombing as compared to our reaction to 9/11.

Calls for others to be outraged over what we are outraged about are childish and self-serving in my opinion. When they occur against a background of cultural ignorance, they are also misinformed.
SuperLib at 10:24 PM JST - 23rd May

Sure, go ahead and do that. That seems to be what you rather consistently do without examining the substance of what I am saying.

I am examining the substance of what you're saying, and I think you're misguided.

Pretty much any violent act by Muslims is explained by you as a reaction to something we're doing to them. Muslims don't kill, they simply respond. Your "Might there not be a difference between" statements linking shooting the Koran with violent protests that result in death shows just how far you're willing to go to make things equal.

I agree with skip on this one. Personally I think you're hiding your inability to deal with Muslim extremism under the guise of being a tolerant and understanding person. Instead of being perpetrators of a crime they are unwilling victims with misguided responses. They're either victims who kill or victims who die, but they never act without provocation in your eyes. But that only goes for Muslims or people who are on the other side of the United States in general. I don't think I've heard heard you explain an action taken by America as a response to Muslim killing of Americans.
SezWho2 at 11:17 PM JST - 23rd May

SuperLib,

You are indulging in gross generalization. In addition to that, the one thing that you are not doing is examining the substance of what I am saying. You may have actually read what I said but then you seem rather to be equating it to something that I have not said and, to heighten the preposterousness of that, you are ascribing to me motives that I do not have.

Let's take the instant case. I am responding to a rather thoughtless musing about whether an Afghan crowd would ever get worked up about an (unspecified) atrocity. To me, that looks very much like prejudice paraded as irony. However, be that as it may, does the poster think that Afghans do not grieve? Does the poster think that Afghans are immune to anger about their sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers dying? Does the poster expect Afghans to take to the streets to protest atrocities in Afghanistan? Does the poster expect Afghans to mount a protest against acts by extremist Muslims in other countries? Do you think and expect these things? Do you think you are being even a bit realistic?

I am certainly not an expert on Afghan culture, but for centuries it has been the rock on which empires have foundered. I know it is tribal and that it is majority Pashtun and heavily Taliban. I suggest that Afghans have a way of dealing with grievances which is far different from that to which we are accustomed and that this does not entail massive shows of outrage against other tribes. I further suggest that this is an entirely different thing than having their religious icons defiled by invaders who are largely infidels.

You seem to think that my motive is to make things equal. It is not. If anything, my motive is to disabuse the notion that we are dealing with people who are fundamentally different from ourselves. We are not. And as for whether you have ever heard me explain an action taken by America as a response to Muslim killing of Americans, why should I? Don't you know that this is what we are doing? Doesn't almost everyone know that? Some Muslim extremists killed 3000 people, mostly Americans, on 9/11. Since then we are responsible for a death toll in the hundreds of thousands. You talk about making things equal. Are we equal yet?

Let me be clear so that you make no mistake. We were wrong in our response to 9/11. Having initiated that response, we were wrong in not apprehending the criminal who was responsible for 9/11. Having failed in that, we were wrong to have invaded Iraq. We continue to be wrong in providing the fire power to prop up non-functioning governments and we are wrong in using our advance machines of death to indiscriminately kill people in those countries and wrong in employing soldiers and contractors who cannot extend basic respect.

And you, I think, continue to be wrong in making me the issue instead of addressing the topic at hand.