2 U.S. firefighters shot dead, 2 wounded in arson 'trap'

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  • 5

    Hide Suzuki

    300 more nutcases like this then maybe, just maybe they might actually change something in this crazy country. But then maybe not, the NRA crazies aren't going to let anybody with common sense make any change.

  • 3

    warispeace

    Business as usual in America, which can turn anything into an industry. Weapons, crime, news about weapons and crime, reality TV shows... Violence sells!

  • 5

    Akemi Mokoto

    This tragedy is just too much.

  • 7

    Rolf Schlumpf

    Big country = Big problems...

  • 5

    Vast Right-Wing Conspirator

    Sadly, yet another criminal who would not have been stopped by gun control laws. Unfortunately for the USA, there are already so many guns in circulation that any attempts to regulate them are fruitless.

    In the past, there was a war on alcohol. These days, there is a war on drugs. Those haven't worked out so well. What evidence is there that a war on guns will be any different?

    The last sentences of the report are just fearmongering, though. The reality is that crime and murder rates in the States are dropping, not rising. Firearm crimes have halved since the 90s.

  • 4

    jeff198527

    Apparently this tragedy isn't too much, as it keeps happening again and again.

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    The daily US gun murder report is in. No happy Christmas for these people. RIP to the firefighters. It's so sad they were only doing their jobs when this nutbag decided to end their lives.

  • 4

    zichi

    What did he have against firefighters?

  • 1

    Brainiac

    Another joyless Christmas for so many people. Life can be ripped away so cruelly. I bet these victims reacted with horror to the Newtown shooting, not even dreaming that they, too, would share the same fate within 10 days. Rest in Peace.

  • -1

    kwatt

    This kind of shooting tragedy would undoubtedly happen again and again until psychos give up guns. There are too many guns for everyone there.

  • 0

    edbardoe

    New York State already has the strictest gun control in US, gun control will no stop criminals.

  • -7

    Alphaape

    I find it interesting that people are up in arms about the NRA leader's comments. Let's look at one school and see how it is working. Take the school Sidwell Friends in D.C. That school has 11 armed guards at it. Not the Secret Service guards that protect the President's daughters who attend, buy 11 privately operated guards who protect the schools. That is why many of the so called "leaders" and those who can afford it send their kids to that school, since they are aware that there the chances of some nut job going on a gun rampage is very rare (even without the President's children going there).

    So when journalist like NBC's David Gregory slam the NRA on air for suggesting of arming guards, he is being a hypocrite since he chooses to send his kids to school under armed guard as many of those who say that guns should be removed. Yet, they want to deny the average law abiding person the same right as they do to have protection.

    I am not suggesting that rules should be tighter, I can go for that. But before they want to take a gun from someone who has the lawful right to own one, I suggest that they start off by going into high crime areas, and disarming the people who shouldn't have guns first before they start enacting laws against law abiding citizens.

  • 5

    zichi

    I find it interesting that people are up in arms about the NRA leader's comments

    Better to be "up in arms" than "take up arms".

  • 4

    Hide Suzuki

    @Alphaape

    Nothing you said justifies anyone having military style automatic rifles.

  • 5

    zichi

    There are about 100,000 public schools in America. If each school had a staff of 10 armed guards, that would be 1,000,000 guards on say $30,000 pa would increase the wages for education by $30,000,000,000. What's that, $30 trillion? Plus the cost of weapons uniforms etc.

    I guess if America were to reduce it massive defense spending it could afford to pay for it?

  • -2

    johnnybravo

    What edbardoe said....

  • 3

    RomeoRII

    What did he have against firefighters?

    My uncle was a firefighter in Detroit and was caught right in the middle of that city's 1967 race riots. The scum were shooting at firefighters back then as well. You can't fix hate, stupid or crazy.

    RR

  • 2

    Hide Suzuki

    @edbardoe

    It's so easy to buy guns in other states and bring them to NY. We need to have the same strict gun control everywhere. The less guns the safer. Anyone with tiny bit of common sense understands this.

    I know this will not convince any of the NRA lover nutcases but I just had to say it. It's just frustrating to deal with delusional people who completely lack logical thinking.

    But it's America, I don't belong to this country. They can have as many crazy laws as they want

  • -8

    RomeoRII

    Great point, edbardoe.

    Most of these mass shootings are taking place in "Gun Free Zones" where guns are banned. That paints a target on the backs of those being shot.

    There is one reason why I should be allowed to possess my guns. It's my constitutional right.

    RR

  • 0

    SS Abe

    It would be interesting to hear the NRA explain how Japan could be safer with guns. I bet they could do it, and the same people would believe it. #NewMarket

  • 0

    technosphere

    Most of these mass shootings are taking place in "Gun Free Zones" where guns are banned. That paints a target on the backs of those being shot.

    There is one reason why I should be allowed to possess my guns. It's my constitutional right.

    Also, you should add an armed police officer in every unit of firefighters.

  • -4

    Alphaape

    Nothing you said justifies anyone having military style automatic rifles.

    @ HIde Suzuki: If you notice I didn't say that there should be automatic rifles, and I even stated that perhaps some more measures should be taken. But I would be willing to bet that those guards at elite schools like Sidwell friends have more than just a pistol at their disposal.

    It's so easy to buy guns in other states and bring them to NY. We need to have the same strict gun control everywhere. The less guns the safer. Anyone with tiny bit of common sense understands this.

    I'm not so sure about this, since as others have pointed out in places with strict gun control laws, there are larger caes of gun violence. Take a look at D.C. They have some very strict hand gun laws for law abiding citizens, yet the criminal element doesn't abide by them.

  • 6

    LFRAgain

    "Most of these mass shootings are taking place in "Gun Free Zones" where guns are banned."

    You mean, like a school? Jeez, this is the kind of inane twisting of logic we have to fight against. It's like saying civilians who die in war only do so because they weren't soldiers. If only they were soldiers instead, they wouldn't have been targets.

    You think turning America into an armed camp is the answer? I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence this is not what our Founding Fathers intended.

    To anyone with a modicum of self-respect (not to mention English literacy), it is clear the Second Amendment does not extend this mythical "Right to Bear Arms" to every Tom, Dick, and Harry with an itchy trigger finger in the United States, no matter what a right-leaning Supreme Court said. The term "Well Regulated Militia" wasn't just thrown in there as an afterthought. It isn't just window dressing.

    Unless one is a member of the well-regulated Police, National Guard, or Armed Forces and possesses a weapon in order to fulfill one's responsibilities to those organizations, the "It's my Constitutional Right" schtick holds no water.

    The NRA champions the exercise of this so-called right utterly free of responsibility. No, real responsiiblity:

    I've got no problem with people owning guns. I've got no problem with right-to-conceal permits.

    But if you're going to play, then there have to be better rules. Mandatory permits for everyone who owns a gun needs to be supplemented with:

    Mandatory gun insurance for everyone who owns a gun, one policy per gun. Mandatory cap on the number of guns one person can own. Mandatory cap on ammo sales. Mandatory cap on clip sales. X-number of guns, clips, and bullets allowed per person will make a significant contribution to limiting access to people who intend to do something insane.

    Mandatory serial numbers to identify every single gun made in or imported to the United States, coupled with a comprehensive national database that can pinpoint and identify each one of those guns and their registered owners if the need arises. Mandatory gun safe purchase for the first gun purchased.

    No more assault weapons for the general public. None. Zero. Zilch. You don't need a hand grenade and you sure as hell don't need an assault rifle. They don't need to be out there at all.

    And finally, mandatory psychological evaluations for anyone who wants to purchase a gun beyond their first.

    This is a pretty good start for any society that's serious about protecting its population.

    The NRA fosters, exploits, and wallows in fear, cowardice, and an abject lack of faith in the very same Constitution it holds forth like a magic shield against common sense legislation, and you know what? It's getting our children murdered.

    Enough is enough. We aren't cowboys anymore and the British aren't coming to invade our shores. There aren't very many bears left in the woods and the Natives were subdued over a century ago. We don't have a tyranical government and haven't since the founding of the nation -- and yes, please keep your hyperbole and rhetoric to yourself, there's no actual, fear-for-your-life tyranny at work in the U.S. today. If anyone really think there is, go find yourself a dictionary and some world history books.

    We're supposedly old enough as a nation to be able to step away from this immature fascination with things that go boom and move towards something more promising, like providing safe learning environments for our children that don't involve armed guards wandering the hallways in anticipation of a shootout. And yet, somehow, we can't. Or won't.

    I say again, this isn't what the Founding Fathers envisioned.

  • 1

    LFRAgain

    "New York State already has the strictest gun control in US, gun control will no stop criminals."

    The Connecticut shooter, Adam Lanza, wasn't a criminal.

  • -2

    avigator

    Keep defending the right to bear arms.

  • -4

    sailwind

    To anyone with a modicum of self-respect (not to mention English literacy), it is clear the Second Amendment does not extend this mythical "Right to Bear Arms" to every Tom, Dick, and Harry with an itchy trigger finger in the United States, no matter what a right-leaning Supreme Court said. The term "Well Regulated Militia" wasn't just thrown in there as an afterthought. It isn't just window dressing.

    I think you might want to take the one minute it takes to view this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7ldL1LM

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    LFRAgain: "The Connecticut shooter, Adam Lanza, wasn't a criminal."

    Very good posts, and you bring up points I have mentioned numerous times but that fall on the usual deaf ears. A lot of the gun-nutters will constantly talk about how if you ban guns criminals will still have them to commit murder, and forgetting for a second that proves us right that that's what such guns are made for and made for alone, they never acknowledge the fact that most people who commit murder with a gun aren't criminals until after the fact. Same with mental health -- of COURSE everyone who commits such a massacre or just shoots another person is nuts, but that always comes after as well.

    Anyway, what I'm interested in more than anything in this case is how the guy got the weapon. There's no description in the article as to whether he got it lawfully or not. Clearly he should not have, but I wouldn't be surprised if some gun show or gun shop sold it to him anyway just to profit. That, or he stole it from a lawful owner, which only again goes to show such weapons should be banned in the first place.

  • 2

    ikemen

    Just remember that guns don't kill people - people kill people. And that the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

    So can solve the problem.

    Armed guards in every school, and every teacher and firefighter needs to have a loaded gun at all times.

    And maybe doctors and nurses. And priests.

    Okay - back to sanity. American, we have a problem!

  • -5

    Noliving

    To anyone with a modicum of self-respect (not to mention English literacy), it is clear the Second Amendment does not extend this mythical "Right to Bear Arms" to every Tom, Dick, and Harry with an itchy trigger finger in the United States, no matter what a right-leaning Supreme Court said. The term "Well Regulated Militia" wasn't just thrown in there as an afterthought. It isn't just window dressing. Unless one is a member of the well-regulated Police, National Guard, or Armed Forces and possesses a weapon in order to fulfill one's responsibilities to those organizations, the "It's my Constitutional Right" schtick holds no water.

    Unfortunately for you that is not what the US supreme court ruled.

    No more assault weapons for the general public. None. Zero. Zilch. You don't need a hand grenade and you sure as hell don't need an assault rifle. They don't need to be out there at all.

    But these aren't assault rifles....Besides semi-automatic rifles make up less than 360 gun deaths each year. There are over 8.5k homicides with guns. How is going to ban them really going to reduce gun violence in the US?

    And finally, mandatory psychological evaluations for anyone who wants to purchase a gun beyond their first.

    Agreed.

    they never acknowledge the fact that most people who commit murder with a gun aren't criminals until after the fact

    Actually Smith around 90% of gun homicides the the person using the gun did in fact have an adult criminal record.

    Take for example this guy who killed the firefighters, he had been in prison for several years for killing his own mother.

    Same with mental health -- of COURSE everyone who commits such a massacre or just shoots another person is nuts, but that always comes after as well.

    That is why there should be a mental evaluation for the first gun buy and then after that an annual evaluation after.

  • -2

    Noliving

    Nothing you said justifies anyone having military style automatic rifles.

    What about Hunting style semi-automatic rifles? Besides why are military style semi-automatic rifles so hyped up when less than 360 homicides are committed with all rifle types in the US? There are 8.5k gun homicides in the US so how is going to ban these firearms really going to decrease gun homicide in the US?

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Noliving: "Actually Smith around 90% of gun homicides the the person using the gun did in fact have an adult criminal record."

    Stats?

    "Take for example this guy who killed the firefighters, he had been in prison for several years for killing his own mother."

    So I ask again, how did he get the assault rifle?

    "That is why there should be a mental evaluation for the first gun buy and then after that an annual evaluation after."

    And once again, it's all subjective. For example, I think anyone who thinks they need to have a gun has mental health issues, but you would disagree.

  • 3

    Christopher Smith

    So glad I dont live in the U.S.

  • 1

    noriyosan73

    THIS STORY IS NOT A CALL FOR GUN CONTROL! It is a call for swift legal proceeding and execution. Millions of dollars were wasted on trying to rehabilitate this terrible person. Prison are not for housing such a person forever and if released, the outcome is predictable.

  • -3

    Herve Nmn L'Eisa

    This incident is further proof the 20,000 gun control laws don't stop criminals. This man was a convicted felon, murderer, who violated numerous laws after his release. He obviously didn't go through legal channels to get a gun, but through the black market, as criminals do. Just like drugs. One of the firefighters was also a police Lt.

    Mexico has lots of illegal guns, with some fast 'n furious help, and plenty of violence to go with. More laws doesn't make things better. Morality, which can not be legislated, is the only solution. Notice I didn't say religion, but morality.

  • -2

    Herve Nmn L'Eisa

    " And once again, it's all subjective. For example, I think anyone who thinks they need to have a gun has mental health issues, but you would disagree."

    Well, as I enjoy hunting, I would have to disagree. I've hunted since my childhood, with both bows and guns, and I also enjoy fishing.

  • -2

    Alphaape

    I can understand those who oppose guns and want to ban them. It's your choice, but why do you want to deny me my right of owning a gun, even if I do all of the necessary legal work and go through the training to legally own a gun. Banning something because one group doesn't like it is no way to run a society. This guy was a killer from the start. He killed his own mother. If he would have still been in prison, or yet given capital punishment, this event probably would not have occured (at least that it was done by him).

  • -4

    Noliving

    Stats?

    Page 667 from the following link:

    http://www.garymauser.net/pdf/KatesMauserHJPP.pdf

    It states that approximately 90% of adult murderers have adult criminal records and that it spans nearly 6 years and that they include on average 4 major adult felony arrests.

    So I ask again, how did he get the assault rifle?

    He didn't use an assault rifle, he used a semi-automatic rifle. Assault Rifles are machine guns. Most likely got it through a private sale, which by the way I agree should be required to do a background check when doing private sales. Another possibility is through a straw buyer which I find to be less likely in this case, and finally another possibility is that he stole gun.

    And once again, it's all subjective. For example, I think anyone who thinks they need to have a gun has mental health issues, but you would disagree.

    I disagree, there is a lot of work to be done in psychology but there is a lot of research to show that just because one desires having a weapon does not mean you desire to harm anyone. For example people who like to engage in axe throwing contests or collect blades such as swords or knives doesn't mean they have any type of intent or desire to harm anyone.

  • 0

    Noliving

    Correction he killed his grandmother not his mother.

  • 1

    wontond

    Will the NRA be calling for armed escorts for fire fighters, or just armed fire fighters? The 2nd amendment is too entrenched in the American psyche that legal gun ownership will never be done away with. I think they should impose a 100 or 200% tax on firearms like rifles and maybe a 500% tax on semi-automatic weapons and handguns. Make it as tough as possible for these gun enthusiasts to make a small armory.

  • -1

    Herve Nmn L'Eisa

    Noliving, thanks for the link to the Kates-Mauser Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy study. For those who oppose guns, please read it. The info is objective and thorough.

  • -1

    smithinjapan

    Noliving: " For example people who like to engage in axe throwing contests or collect blades such as swords or knives doesn't mean they have any type of intent or desire to harm anyone."

    Save swords, all the other implements in question serve other main functions. Guns are to kill, and to kill only. As to what kind of weapon he was using, I mentioned assault rifles because that is what one of the injured firefighters believed was being used: "“We are being shot at. Multiple firemen down. Multiple firemen are shot. I am shot. I think he is using an assault rifle. We have multiple firemen down. Working fire,”

    "I disagree, there is a lot of work to be done in psychology but there is a lot of research to show that just because one desires having a weapon does not mean you desire to harm anyone."

    Like I said, you will disagree, but the majority of the world and many even in the US will deem you mentally unbalanced if you feel you need a gun, and so we get back the question of subjectivity and how any laws or any accusations of mental illness can be realistically assessed.

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    I wonder what the Prince of Peace would say about the madness here in US if he were here tonight (Christmas Eve) among us.

    • Moderator

      Stay on topic please.

  • 3

    GarbageCan

    Lots of rhetoric here but short on real proposals acceptable to both the right and left.

    Here's an idea - let's have mandatory liability insurance for ALL firearms sold in the US - any buyer of a firearm must simultaneously purchase personal and property liability coverage. Any subsequent property damage, injury or loss of life caused by that weapon will be an enforceable claim against the insurer and insured. Insurance companies will scream all the way to the bank, but won't beat the lawyers there. Now we're talking licensing, screening, training, higher costs to the weapon seller and owner, and stronger regulation.

    Guns are like drugs - if you can't beat them, let folks have them but regulate the hell out of them.

  • 0

    megosaa

    gun related i see ?

  • 2

    Ah_so

    He didn't use an assault rifle, he used a semi-automatic rifle. Assault Rifles are machine guns.

    OK, whatever, Noliving. For you it is not an assault rifle, but "assault rifle" is the term popularly given for military grade semi-automatic carbines.

    The fact that you feel the need to quibble about this point suggests that you really do not get it. You dismiss the mere 360 people apparently killed by military semi-automatics each year (source?), but remember, this is about 10 times the entire death toll by guns in the entire UK each year.

    No doubt you will note that (yawn) guns-don't-kill-people...etc, but the murder rate per capita in the USA is about 4 times that of the UK's (which in itself about 4 times that of Japan).

    Gun control works - get over it.

  • 0

    southsakai

    Extremely sad and horrible. I just can't imagine how someone could do such a thing to these brave men who's job is to protect peoples lives and property. And this nut had killed before and got released. Failure on the system. How can you rehabilitate murderer's and set them free back in society? The system is a total failure. Mental health issues is now a very serious problem everywhere. Governments really need to take this issue seriously and act quickly along with better gun control regulations. These men give up Xmas with family so they can be killed in the line of duty. It's so terrible!

  • 2

    conchobar

    Gun nuts love to say that we don't need more gun control because then criminals will be the only ones with guns, but it turns out that most criminals who can't legally purchase guns purchase them from straw buyers -- people who legally buy guns to sell them to criminals for a nice profit. Gun dealers are aware and complicit, because the NRA makes them very hard to prosecute. Why turn down a sale? Get real people, more guns means more violence. Easy availability for law-abiding citizens translates to easy availability for criminals and about-to-be criminals. Guns don't kill people but they ensure the body count is ten times higher than what a slasher could do. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/14715658-418/chicago-gangs-dont-have-to-go-far-to-buy-guns.html

  • -3

    Serrano

    "was jailed for 17 years for his grandmother's death"

    The guy killed his grandma and got only 17 years?

    "then fatally shot himself in the head"

    He won't kill anyone else and saved the taxpayers a bundle. Too bad this came too late for his grandmother, his mother, the two dead firefighters and the two wounded firefighters...

  • 3

    yabits

    A convicted felon on Monday shot dead two firefighters and wounded two others...

    The dead men were identified as police Lt. Michael Chiapperini, 43, the Webster Police Department's public information officer; and 19-year-old Tomasz Kaczowka, also a 911 dispatcher.

    Two noble and honorable men -- one not even 20 years old -- lost their lives at the hands of this killer. The two wounded firefighters, Joseph Hofstetter and Theodore Scardino, were in guarded condition in the intensive care unit at Strong Memorial Hospital, authorities said. Both were awake and alert and are expected to recover.

    I believe many will be very interested to know, as I am, the history of the gun used in this heinous crime. It started out as a "legal" weapon. How did this ex-con come to be in possession of it? And did others know that he had it?

  • 1

    badsey3

    Given the choice: I think Webster, NY is better than Sandy Hook, CT. http://www.zillow.com/homes/forsale/Sandy-Hook-CT/ http://www.zillow.com/homes/forsale/Town-of-Webster-NY/

    Went from upper/middle class to more of a firm middle-class now. How long before we hit Chicago where the real gun crime is?

    http://www.lohud.com/interactive/article/20121223/NEWS01/121221011/Map-Where-gun-permits-your-neighborhood (NY Libs publish county conceal carry permit owners = each dot (on map) has a owners name and address)

    Pretty nasty stuff that I am assuming will continue. Really ruins Christmas for many.

  • 0

    Piotr Gierszewski

    Such criminals aren't people who just pop out in random places on the Earth. They are usually people who were raised in an atmosphere of tolerance to crime and deviations.

    The gun laws are not a problem really. Ban guns and people will throw knives at each other. The problem is the public education which is on a frighteningly low level in the US.

    Some people might say that still America has given the world many great scientists. But they were all educated in private schools. Private school system is the most egalitarian thing in the American society. There are some schools which accept only those candidates who's parents have the diploma of that school. Where's the equality?

  • 1

    Cos

    "Hello NRA ? -That's what we always say : Not enough guns for good guys. Each volunteer fireman should be escorted by 2 volunteer veteran seal commando experts, fully armed."

  • 1

    cracaphat

    More of the same,but the NRA doesn't care.Why? When nutters go on rampages,more people go and buy guns. Something is seriously wrong.

  • 0

    nandakandamanda

    Piotr, American society is not equal. Where did you get that idea? There is equality of opportunity, though.

    If you have the energy and the brains there is no upper limit. If you do not, there is nothing to stop you sinking into the pit of despair. Maybe one member of your family will make it, and after a generation or two they will be in the upper stratum.

    In this case the guy was living in a nice house (from the pics) but although he thought he was being super cunning, he seems to have behaved in a really egocentric, selfish way.

  • -4

    Noliving

    Save swords, all the other implements in question serve other main functions. Guns are to kill, and to kill only. As to what kind of weapon he was using, I mentioned assault rifles because that is what one of the injured firefighters believed was being used: "“We are being shot at. Multiple firemen down. Multiple firemen are shot. I am shot. I think he is using an assault rifle. We have multiple firemen down. Working fire,”

    Guns can serve other main functions such as target shooting.

    That is because the fireman incorrectly believes, just like you and the media, that a semi-automatic rifle is an assault rifle.

    Like I said, you will disagree, but the majority of the world and many even in the US will deem you mentally unbalanced if you feel you need a gun

    So people in the military are mentally unbalanced? What about law enforcement that feel the need for firearms?

    OK, whatever, Noliving. For you it is not an assault rifle, but "assault rifle" is the term popularly given for military grade semi-automatic carbines.

    It is not whatever, it is a defined fact, when you use terms incorrectly you create bad laws.

    So because the incorrect termly is popular used that it is acceptable to use such a term? So because the term vegetable is popularly given for Tomato means it is a vegetable?

    Get real people, more guns means more violence.

    But that is not true, Gun violence is down more than 15% the past five years and more than 10 million additional guns have been added to America's streets during that time.

    I believe many will be very interested to know, as I am, the history of the gun used in this heinous crime. It started out as a "legal" weapon. How did this ex-con come to be in possession of it? And did others know that he had it?

    I am too, I believe he either got it through a private sale or through a straw buyer.

  • -2

    Noliving

    incorrect termly is popular

    They got to have an edit function, what I meant to say here is:

    So because the incorrect term is popularly used

  • -3

    Noliving

    OK, whatever, Noliving. For you it is not an assault rifle, but "assault rifle" is the term popularly given for military grade semi-automatic carbines.

    Here is also why it matters:

    "Why is it important? Because proper, actual, legally-defined terms are important in a discussion where rights and the law is being discussed, and emotional hyperbole and misunderstandings make bad law"

    "This is not anal-retentive nitpickery or pro-gun obfuscation, this is a defined fact based on the people who need to use and classify weapons for a living, ie, the military"

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/22/1112659/-Firearms-101-the-Assault-Rifle-Capabilities-and-the-Militia-Concept

    The fact that you feel the need to quibble about this point suggests that you really do not get it. You dismiss the mere 360 people apparently killed by military semi-automatics each year (source?), but remember, this is about 10 times the entire death toll by guns in the entire UK each year.

    It states right here by the FBI that a grand total of 323 homicides were committed by rifles in the 2011 year. That is all types of rifles: Bolt action, Pump action, Lever action, Semi-automatic, Fully-automatic. You should be aware that it is estimated there are a grand total of 50-100 million rifles that owned in the US.

    Guess how many people are killed by someone's bare hands each year in the US..

    It is 726 for the year 2011.

    Guess how many people are killed by a blunt object such as a bat or a hammer in the US...

    It is 496 for the year 2011

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

    No doubt you will note that (yawn) guns-don't-kill-people...etc, but the murder rate per capita in the USA is about 4 times that of the UK's (which in itself about 4 times that of Japan) Gun control works - get over it.

    Read this entire article published in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy. The only type of gun control that works is banning people with previous criminal backgrounds and those that have a mental evaluation that have determined them to be a threat to others and themselves to work. Any other gun control laws don't have any impact.

    United Kingdom had zero gun control until world war 1 and in that time they still had a lower homicide rate than the US. The above article conclusively proves that it is culture and social pressures that drive crime rates up or down.

    You ignore the fact that Japan has a lower non violence crime rate compared to the UK as well. If gun control worked then why is Japan's non violent crime lower as well?

    Here is another thing to consider, the largest owners of guns in the US on a per-capita basis are White Males over the age of 30, in fact it is more around the ages of 35-50. By your argument White men between the ages of 35-50 should be the largest perpetrators of gun crime, specifically gun homicides. They are not even close to being the largest perpetrators of gun crimes.

    The murder rate has been cut in half since 1993 and in that time more than 50,000,000 guns have been added to America's streets and not just per capita rates but grand total gun violence as a whole as well.

    http://www.garymauser.net/pdf/KatesMauserHJPP.pdf

  • -1

    Noliving

    The above article conclusively proves that it is culture and social pressures that drive crime rates up or down.

    It should be below article conclusively proves that it is culture and social pressures that drive crime rates up or down.

  • 1

    freakashow

    Yet another case that I'm sure the clueless NRA will make to put more guns out in America to make it a "safer" place to live. Yeah, right. It's like a hunter saying we should put out more bear traps all over the place to trap bears. Sooner or later you'll step on one of your own bear traps. As for guns, the more guns you put out there in people's hands (no matter how well-trained they are), the more you increase the possibility of accidents happening. Accidental gun deaths happen more often than people realize. Call me an optimist, but I do feel that a stricter ban on guns should be tried. While many believe that a total gun ban won't work as in countries like Australia (due to the difference in personalities and moral values of the two cultures), it should at least be given a try. Letting institutions like schools turn into police states is not the way to go.

  • 0

    maglev101

    The last sentences of the report are just fearmongering, though. The reality is that crime and murder rates in the States are dropping, not rising. Firearm crimes have halved since the 90s.

    half of too much is still too much.

  • -1

    Noliving

    Accidental gun deaths happen more often than people realize. Call me an optimist, but I do feel that a stricter ban on guns should be tried.

    The only ban that would work would be on hand guns.

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    These who advocate for pro-gun rigtht to arm groups including the NRA will never wake up until their own family member gets gun down.

    1)Let's ban all secondary gun market immediately. 74% of guns are exchanged in the secondary market. 2)Let's overhaul mental care system that is falling apart.

    3)Impose high taxes on all of them with a mandatory liability insurance. We need to keep all gun owners and the type of guns they own on the Federal, State and City data bases. Let's make these information available to the public just like we treat sex offenders moving inSto our neighborhood.

  • 1

    LFRAgain

    "These who advocate for pro-gun rigtht to arm groups including the NRA will never wake up until their own family member gets gun down."

    The insane reason for this is because many pro-gun advocates, particularly those in the NRA, really, honestly, truly believe that by owning a gun, they are somehow immune to this kind of insanity, as if being able to shot things up on a target range translates to bulletproof-ness.

    Like you said, it would take nothing short of someone they love being killed by a nut with a firearm for them to get the message that more is not necessarily better. Wouldn't it just be better for everyone involved if it didn't have to come to that?

  • -5

    Alphaape

    For those who say that we should make it more expensive to buy guns, and that it would be too expensive to have armed guards in the schools (which many schools now have in places like NYC), here's a simple solution. In response to the NRA leaders comments, let the teachers union pay the costs for providing the security for off duty or properly screened guards. They take in mandatory dues from teachers anyway, and don't have to pay for any of their benefits, let the unions foot the bill.

    For this case, it may not work to arm the firefighters, but I think that they should be able to have a weapon in stand-by in their equipment. In the majority of the cases, if the fire deptartment is on the scene, normally there is an accompanying police unit to at least provide some type of traffic control or from being dispatched from emergency services. In many cases, it is the police who arrive on the scene first.

  • 4

    LFRAgain

    Alphaape,

    "...let the teachers union pay the costs for providing the security for off duty or properly screened guards. They take in mandatory dues from teachers anyway, and don't have to pay for any of their benefits, let the unions foot the bill."

    What the blinking hell are you talking about here? How exactly does gun violence in America and the preposterous notion of armed guards walking the halllways of our schools translate into an invitation to piss and moan about wholly unrelated teacher unions? And why would the cost of protecting tyhe nation's children from raving lunatics with guns children fall on the shoulders of any union, teacher or otherwise? This is a national issue, not a politcal one.

    Grind your union axe elsewhere and reacquaint yourself with the phrase "grossly inappropriate" while you're at it.

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    Noliving: "So people in the military are mentally unbalanced?"

    Many are, actually, or do you need me to point out slaughters of innocents by American troops in Afghanistan and Iraq? What are the charges the guy who killed all those innocents in a village facing again?

    But my point was directed towards citizens, not military or police. THOSE people use their tools for a purpose, or at least carry them for one. 'Target shooting', I'm afraid, is not a relevant reason for the public to be carrying arms. The purpose of a gun, especially assault rifles, is to kill, and that only. Deny it all you want, put more lipstick on the pig if you like, it won't change the facts.

    The second amendment needs to be scrapped, and the guns need to be taken away. Until then, EVERY DAY you can come onto the latest American shooting rampage article and tip-toe all you like about the fact that it never happens as much ANYWHERE else; the reason being guns are not as readily available.

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