20 killed in Gaza clashes

Thursday 17th April, 05:28 AM JST

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GrouchyGaijin at 04:57 PM JST - 17th April

What I always find remarkable when the topic of "israel", Gaza and palestine is brought up, is the seething hatred that jumps off the screen when anyone dares to criticize "israel". Not supporting, or even criticizing "israel" does not make one anti-semitic, an enemy of the Jewish people, or an extremist supporter of violent acts. So, check out the actual throughts and words of successive generations of "israelis" who, it would appear, have absolutely no intention of establishing a peace with the Palestinians, and are systematically, using weapons of mass destruction, collective punishment and with activities that can only be described as barbaric, implementing an extermination. A true Holocaust. The Palestinian Shoah. Gaza is their living Yad Veshem. See their words here http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/palestinians.html Dismantle "israel" and the first major step to peace in the region will be accomplished. The cause of radical Islam is zio-nazi, fascist Zionism, as evidenced by the current plight of the people in Gaza. The world is watching!
kinniku at 05:12 PM JST - 17th April

Why do you continue to use that term when you know very well it does not apply to me or my opinions.

Sadly, it is exactly because the term does apply to your opinions. Please look up the term for yourself. You often complain about Jews controlling this or that. By basing your complaint on the religion (specifically being Jewish in this case) of people working in the media, government, or for companies, you are, in fact, expressing anti-Semitic opinions. I feel the same about anyone who would based their opinions solely on religion. This includes extremists on both the Israeli and Muslim sides of the fence.

I am consistently writing about both sides coming to the table and reeling in their extremists. You, on the other hand, are willing to go to the extreme of accusing people of being rabbis when they are not or of Jewish government workers stealing money when they haven't, all to put suspicion on one side and to avoid any advances toward mutual understanding and peace. I firmly believe the attacks on the Nahal Oz fuel terminal and the border fence mentioned in today's article are encouraged by the type of opinions and views you express.
kinniku at 05:23 PM JST - 17th April

GrouchyGaijin,

What I always find remarkable when the topic of "israel", Gaza and palestine is brought up, is the seething hatred that jumps off the screen when anyone dares to criticize "israel".

Criticsm of Israel is fair game as is critism of any country or its policies. However, when it is preceded, accompanied or followed by anti-Semitic comments, they have no weight whatsoever. Would you say the same thing was true the other way around? If someone berates Muslims or the Muslim faith (I have certainly voiced my opposition to such statements here many times) wouldn't you agree that person's opinion about Hamas or the Palestinians in general would carry no weight to them?

So, check out the actual throughts and words of successive generations of "israelis" who, it would appear, have absolutely no intention of establishing a peace with the Palestinians,

That is just not true. Rabin was willing to make peace, as was Barak. In Barak's case Arafat just walked away from the table. That is a sad, but true fact. It is also true that while Abbas seems to be moving in the right direction, Hamas has not shown an interest in true peace with recognition of Israel. Worse yet, I worry that even if Hamas were to turn around that Olmert (who is an extremely weak prime minister) would not be the one who is willing or able to make peace either.

as evidenced by the current plight of the people in Gaza. The world is watching!

Yes, the world is watching Hamas and Islamic Jihad continually attacking Israel. Why don't they just stop and make a serious peace. Don't you think that is what is in the best interest of all Palestinians?
skipthesong at 05:30 PM JST - 17th April

GG: Way off. You are correct that not supporting Israel does not equate anti-semitism. But, this is just more evidence how the left loves to play word games. When the shoe was on the other foot, not a peep out of the left. Any attacks by Palestinians get diluted. Knowing all too well that Hamas practices Islam in a very strict manner, yet the left still want that one enemy, at the same time promoting separation between religion and government.

And again, being true to the New Neo-left, you only put up a site that shows one perspective.

And you know, and you hope, that once the Palestinian issue boils over every Muslim will have their chance to attack Israel and then they wouldn't stop there, they would go on a world quest to rid it of the last Jew.
SuperLib at 06:29 PM JST - 17th April

"The consistently and deliberately shoot at media people and UN observers (and ambulances)."

Well seeing as you're a person who supports Hamas and the targeting of Israeli innocents, are you sure you're the right one to be giving this lecture?
redacted at 06:57 PM JST - 17th April

"Palestinians" love their misery. Why else would they elect to political office a monster like this - -

"Then there is an issue unlike any other. The most controversial of the newly elected Hamas women is Miriam Farhat, known as the "Mother of Martyrs" after losing three sons fighting Israel. Her campaign video included a scene of her bidding a son goodbye before he died killing five people in a Jewish settlement. Mrs Farhat said later that she wished she had 100 sons to sacrifice as "shaheeds" - Muslims who die in a holy war. Mrs Naeem, who named her youngest child after a Hamas leader assassinated by Israel, says there is nothing illegitimate about suicide bombers."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/18/israel.islam
sabiwabi at 07:45 PM JST - 17th April

This is what UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan stated after the murder of UN observers by Israeli forces during their massacre of Lebanon:

I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defense Forces of a United Nations observer post in southern Lebanon that has killed two United Nations military observers, with two more feared dead. This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long established and clearly marked United Nations post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that United Nations positions would be spared Israeli fire. Furthermore, General Alain Pelligrini, the United Nations Force Commander in south Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular United Nations position from attack. -- http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sgsm10577.doc.htm

I hope you're not going to simply repeat "friendly fire accidents are more than common in military conflicts" or that Kofi Annan is anti-Semitic?
kinniku at 08:17 PM JST - 17th April

sabiwabi,

You do realize B'Tselem is an Israeli organization, right? I fully support investigations into any and all incidents such as this one and the ones you mentioned. However, you have yet to show proof of a purposeful attack.

While we are at it, could you point me in the direction of a Middle Eastern based Arab or Muslim organization that makes the same kinds of protests when extremists attack Israel? Could you also point me in the direction of investigations into such attacks that are done by Middle Eastern governments such as Hamas into violent behaviour on the part of their extremists?
skipthesong at 09:44 PM JST - 17th April

I don't see where you have the right to claim one person to be a Jew and another not. That is like saying some people aren't Muslims..
SuperLib at 12:09 AM JST - 18th April

May I ask what it is Hamas gets out of an incident like this? They're outmatched militarily with Israel, yet they decide to escalate their level of attacks to include ambushes that kill multiple soldiers now? And they do it at a time when Jimmy Carter is giving them the biggest world stage they've ever had?

If there's any explanation to an incident like this beyond revenge, I'd like to hear it. And if you're trying to sell revenge, then good luck, because the other side has some pretty good options for revenge if you want to legitimize that.
SuperLib at 12:10 AM JST - 18th April

"Eliminate isreal"

But what if you're caught in a situation where Israel cannot be removed. What do you do?
Helter_Skelter at 05:11 AM JST - 18th April

Eliminate isreal, eliminate war

You do realize that of the couple of dozens of wars occurring around the world today, essentially all involve Islam. Israel is just another front in Islam's war against civilization. If the death cult of Islam didn't exist, most world conflicts would disappear. What a shame the world is plagued with Islamofacism.

I can't think of one, and I have a Ph.D. in Mid. Eastern Studies!

LOL! Another indoctrination from our institutions of lower learning.
sabiwabi at 10:57 AM JST - 18th April

As for this incident being deliberate; well, it might not be. I am just saying that deliberate targeting of journalists and other observers is typical of the Israeli forces.

Moderator: Readers, please stay on topic.
Helter_Skelter at 12:33 PM JST - 18th April

As for this incident being deliberate; well, it might not be

Well, we certainly know the countless number of kidnappings and subsequent murders of journalists in Gaza by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other islamoterrorist groups is deliberate.
SuperLib at 12:37 PM JST - 18th April

"I am just saying that deliberate targeting of journalists and other observers is typical of the Israeli forces."

...and we're just saying that deliberate targeting of women and children is typical of Hamas' forces.