27 killed in clashes in southern Philippines
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WilliB
The religion of peace in the Philippines. So different from the religion of peace everywhere else... not.
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teleprompter
Worldwide the borders of Islam are all drawn in the blood of the non-Muslim neighbors they murder.
You can start in the Philippines, chart this through S. Thailand, India, W China, Central Asia, The Mid East, down into Africa, up into the Balkans.
Madness. When does it end?
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Helter_Skelter
Where are the JT leftists to once again reassure us it's only a small percentage of Muslims and there's nothing to worry about?
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goodDonkey
Helter_Skelter said:
As it turns out we don't have to say much when the doomsday, alarmist right makes comments like yours along with your particular history of getting nothing right. We on the left have found that nobody in their right mind listens to you guys anymore. We no longer have to tell them long explanations of the good people in this world. Anyone with any reason can see that now and anyone else would never listen to we who see the world as it is anyway. So shriek on dude.
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grafton
Helter_Skelter at 04:21 AM JST - 29th March
goodDonkey at 05:06 AM JST - 29th March
You two can bang heads all day, right against left, left against right, but where does it get you? Toady one of you scores points of the other, tomorrow……And while you & all the others that hold a political position so dear that they deliberately half blind themselves argue & score points off each other the rest of the world is falling apart.
I don’t like the Islamic religion because it takes away basic human freedoms, especial for women, but really for all. I don’t however look at that religion through my own political glasses. I stand back & ask if it really is a religion of peace or a bloodthirsty bunch of savages. Not always that easy to tell when extremists are cutting peoples heads of.
The reality is that for nearly all Muslims it is just a day to day religion that does not involve killing people. The sad part is that they are cowed by the extremists, they are frightened to go against the extremists because they fear being seen as being against their own religion. Just look at the street demonstrations of thousands, tens of thousands that can erupt in any Islamic city & some none Islamic cities too. These can’t all be fanatics, but they can be cowards that fear to say no to the fanatics that get them out there. What the religion teaches is not the danger, it is how it is taught & by whom it is taught. The interpretation is the danger. In the hands of the extremist this religion becomes dangerous. The average Muslim fears the extremists more than we do, but has no place to hide from them so goes along with the madness. At best they will make excuses for the fanatics, at worst they will aid them.
Until Islam moves into the 21st. century it will be a danger to most people, even Muslims. But that will not happen until Muslims stop fearing the extremist & fight back for themselves. Until that happens I will see all Muslins as either extremists or 5th. column of the extremists.
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teleprompter
Amusing to see how the Left reacts when militant Mohammedans are carrying out jihad in nations where "Palestine" is completely irrelevant.
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goodDonkey
teleprompter said:
My "reaction" is and always will be not to blame the many for the actions of the few. Of course those who understand logic know that they discovered this fallacy centuries ago. Although that is true, simple minds will still resort to this faulty logic known as the Fallacy of Insufficient Statistics or Hasty Generalization.
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WilliB
Good Donkey:
Nobody is blaming "the many" for the actions of "the few". But some of us notice that "the few" always belong to the same ideology/religion. And we also notice that "the many" of the said ideology/religion are always busy critizing Israel, but never seem to find the time to have a bad word to say about "the few" violent misunderstanders of their ideology/religion. Now that is one heck of an ongoing coincidence.
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goodDonkey
I am very sorry to hear that these despicable terrorists are causing havoc in yet another country on a regular basis. I am not sure what it is this rebel group is actually after. I did find the statement "The accord was challenged by Christian politicians who feared they would lose land, power and clout to minority Muslims" interesting. When I don't know a thing about another country's conflict I try not to pontificate too much on their particulars. I do wish that groups would learn to get along better and learn that they must share resources when they coexist; that may sometimes include power. Everybody wants a little autonomy that was the reason we fought the Revolutionary War in the U.S. I certainly would not say that every uprising is justified and I do not condone violence on innocent people ever. I really am not trying to lead people to some conclusion as to the underlying cause of this conflict and the best solution because I don't know the specifics. I just thought I would offer a little perspective because people have been practicing their demagoguery as usual and trying to lead others to look at the worst in people and then apply those values to a huge population. Those who are managing to vilify Muslims are able to demonize about 1.3 billion people based on their assumption that every Muslim has terrorist intentions. Let's see how many of these events take place every year, outside of Iraq, which we managed to stir up? Even if it were 100 times a year, which it is not, it would be minuscule in comparison to 1.3 billion people. I don't think any of these conflicts around the world are easy. However I think it is very inappropriate for demagogues to appeal to the popular prejudices, emotions and fears that people will naturally have if they have not met others that are different than themselves.
grafton said:
I guess life is easier for you to see everything in black and white. I personally have known and continue to know too many Muslims to have the luxury of lumping them all together. They were just normal Americans as far as I was concerned. It is very funny to me, in a very sad way, that you find me "scoring points" when all I continually tell people is that I know Muslims and to paint them with a broad brush is very small minded.
But according to you I am half blind. I get along fine with Muslims and you call the best of them "5th. column of the extremists." I have had Muslims in groups that I have worked together on projects at my graduate school (almost every class had at least one group project). I met many when I was an undergrad at two separate universities. I have neighbors and I have even spent time chatting with the owners of Muslim owned businesses. I would call that living in the 21st century. But hey if you find the separatist lifestyle more conducive to what you call living in the 21st century; more power to you. Just do us all a favor and when you think you see the "5th. column of the extremists," try not to shoot down any of them. They may have families and are the friends and neighbors of normal people who have learned to get along with people different than themselves.
Oh and FYI, when you say, "And while you and all the others that hold a political position so dear that they deliberately half blind themselves argue and score points off each other the rest of the world is falling apart[,]" we will be the ones keeping things together by understanding others, not spreading fear and also not lumping you with the extremists just because it would be an easier way to group those that are not working for the best solutions in the world. We will continue to look at things with a bit more complexity. We know many others also feared those that were different before and they have learned to come around.
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likeitis
Most people who have engaged in the act of dropping bombs on civilian centers from the skies are probably also of a particuluar ideology/religion, not to mention, culture.
You have to be very careful, or it will sound like you are blaming that particular religion/ideology/culture.
And that was most certainly not being careful.
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sailwind
You are correct it's way over a hundred a year outside Iraq. It's exactly 4678 incidents by Sunni extremists outside Iraq resulting in 9271 deaths, 21,595 wounded over the past four period.
Would you like to run the search again for the Shia? And see what I get, this is just for the Sunni strain. And feel free to go thru each incident and you will see that Iraq isn't in any one of them....you have a tendency to always doubt my veracity lately.
http://wits.nctc.gov/RunSearchAdvanced.do
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JoeBigs
Way would anyone want to vacation in the Philippines is way beyond me...
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WilliB
likeitis:
Nope. Tell us which other religion/ideology (actually, islam is more like a political ideology with religion grafted on top) knows "jihad" a personal obligation for every believer and promises paradise for dying in the course of killing unbelievers (us).
To compare that with wars fought by a militaries (be they justified or not) is evading the issue.
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WilliB
Good Donkey:
What you mean is you have muslim friends, and they are very nice. Fine. That is entirely possible.
But the point is that only muslims are the addressees of the islamist message. When Bin Ladin calls for Jihaad again against the infidels, he does not call on Jews, Buddhists, or Zoroastrians. When Khomeini puts a death Fatwah on Rushdies head, he not ordering Scientologiests or Mormons to do the murder. He is ordering muslims.
And note that some of our nice muslim friends just might be susceptible for the jihadist message. The London subway bombers were, by all accounts, well integrated and well liked. Middle class, uni education. Mohammed Attah, the lead 9/11 pilot, was studying engineering at Hamburg university and was reportedly friendly and well-behaved.
So, if you think there no particular cause for the islamic jihaad, dream on.
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likeitis
The religion does not promise that. Only people perverting the religion do.
You do not know what jihad is. You seem to think it means holy war, as in a bloody war fought to spread Islam. You are wrong. Jihad simply means "struggle" as in to not sit on one's tuckus all day long when you can go out and better yourself and the world.
You only think it is, because you refuse to look in the mirror. A few of them do nasty things. A few of us do nasty things. They are just different nasty things chosen because of what we were taught to accept despite it defying all goodness. Here are some words from the movie The Kingdom of Heaven:
We ALL need to learn those words by heart. That will greatly help reduce the wrongs committed by extremists on both sides.
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teleprompter
"Jihad means 'struggle', man. Mmkay? It means, like, 'go out and better the world.'"
For devout Mohammedans that, by definition, would mean following the Koran.
And what does the Koran prescribe for women, infidels and apostates...
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likeitis
This is true, so far as your meaning of "jihadist message" is concerned, and what you mean is intolerance, extremism and terrorism, and good Muslims can be swayed. Just us some of us might be convinced that it is perfectly ok to drop fire bombs or nukes on a civilian center in time of war. Its not. But we have made such despicable acts a part of our Hollywood culture, and thus, people will do it and call it courage. Our Muslim friends suffer from a very similar poisoning of their culture and very similar succeptibility to do what is absolutely wrong and call it right, sorry to say.
But what we need to do WilliB is not to condemn Islam, but rather to praise its better points and call on the good Muslims to rise up and strongly and clearly oppose the extremist in the name of Islam and for the sake of the face of Islam, because the extremist is no true Muslim at all anyway.
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