3 dead after shooting at Kansas City Jewish community center

No gun problem in America. Carry on.

From everything I'm reading about the suspect this is pretty much a guaranteed hate crime, I mean screaming Heil Hitler and attacking on the eve of Passover.

No gun problem in America. Carry on.

Well the good new is that the gun problem is getting better.

Well the good new is that the gun problem is getting better.

Only because most of these guys commit suicide or get killed at the end of their murder spree, resulting in less of them. Other than that the problem isn't getting any better at all.

Two of the victims may have been Methodist (by some accounts), so I don't think it is necessarily politically charged or a hate crime. Last year, Jew-hate graffiti showed up in a NYC neighborhood. Turns out it was just a mentally ill Jewish guy.

Two of the victims may have been Methodist (by some accounts), so I don't think it is necessarily politically charged or a hate crime.

According to other news sources, the suspect shouted "Heil Hitler" when led away by the cops, which would suggest to me that Methodists were not his primary target.

Only because most of these guys commit suicide or get killed at the end of their murder spree, resulting in less of them. Other than that the problem isn't getting any better at all.

Yes it is getting better, gun homicides are down nearly 49% since 1994, non fatal gun assaults are down nearly 69% since 1994 and accidental gun deaths are also down nearly 33-50% since 1994. Since 2007/8 gun homicides are down more than 16%. Why do you consider those figures to not be getting better at all?

Two of the victims may have been Methodist (by some accounts), so I don't think it is necessarily politically charged or a hate crime.

But did the gun man know that? If the gunman thought they were Jews and targeted because of that it would still make it a hate crime.

The argument should not be for a ban on guns. The threat of criminal violence is far lower than the lobbyists would have us believe. The biggest risk involves irresponsible ownership of guns. We are far too willing to put far too much firepower within reach of the wrong hands.

The argument should not be for a ban on guns.

Yes it should. Because:

The biggest risk involves irresponsible ownership of guns.

The act of owning a gun is irresponsible. Therefore all gun ownership is irresponsible.

The act of owning a gun is irresponsible.

Your opinions are not facts.

The act of owning a firearm IS NOT irresponsible. It is irresponsible people owning firearms that is part of the problem. Where does all the hate come from? We need to take a long look at mental health services in the U.S. Along with comprehensive background checks before selling weapons.

The act of owning a firearm IS NOT irresponsible.

It is most definitely irresponsible to society. Justification of gun ownership means that many people continue to own guns. Many people owning guns is harmful to society. Therefore gun ownership is harmful to society, and therefore irresponsible.

Where does all the hate come from?

From those who would place their selfish desire to own guns over the betterment of society that would result in getting rid of them.

It is most definitely irresponsible to society. Justification of gun ownership means that many people continue to own guns. Many people owning guns is harmful to society. Therefore gun ownership is harmful to society, and therefore irresponsible.

Aristotle just rolled over in his grave...

As the crime perpetrator has been identified as long-time white supremacist with a very checkered criminal history it's clearly obvious that this man has been a menace to society for quite some time. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that he has also been connected to the recent spree of random shootings in the St Louis area.

But did the gun man know that? If the gunman thought they were Jews and targeted because of that it would still make it a hate crime.

So far, all indications are you are correct -- the shooter is being outed as a former high ranking Klansman, Dragon or Wizard of the KKK, presumably supporting Hitler and advocating for mass murder. I was just making the point that when initial reports came in that he may have asked the victims religious affiliation and randomly shot even the non Jews,.we could have been dealing with a case of genuine mental illness.

Doesn't matter whether he's crazy; doesn't matter that he's a "long-time white supremacist with a very checkered criminal history" or that "this man has been a menace to society for quite some time" - it doesn't even matter that he's 74 years old. Under American law, he had every right to own a gun until the moment he misused it.

Go ahead and focus on mental health - ain't gonna make a difference; focus on his "checkered past" as well if you'd like - ain't gonna make a difference. The second any politician suggests that those with mental issues or checkered pasts might need to be restricted from gun ownership is the second the NRA will come down on them like a ton of assault weapons.

The NRA and its minions in Congress have project only one message: This is America. Get used to it.

The act of owning a gun is irresponsible. Therefore all gun ownership is irresponsible.

Crap! For me, I think it's irresponsible NOT owning a firearm! I'm a legal and responsible gun owner, if you don't like it, it's your right and your opinion, but I feel comfortable and safe with mine. I could care less what the left think about it as long as they don't try to take my rights away and don't bother me, they can hoop and holla all they want. By the way, that argument doesn't work anymore, "Piers Morgan" tried it already NO one listened to him and look what happened to his show.

From those who would place their selfish desire to own guns over the betterment of society that would result in getting rid of them.

Sorry, doesn't wash! We just had a kid last week, slice and dice his way through a couple of students. When you have a crazy and deranged lunatic out there, it doesn't matter, they will find a will and a way to hurt or kill you.

Its obviously a hate crime. He saw the Doctor and his grandson and didn't pause to question them about their religious beliefs.

As far as the legality of guns, that is an American issue. And I for one, hope it remains a strictly American issue. Don't export it, thank you very much.

But, when 27 kids get brutally murdered and the newspaper headlines read 'How could this happen?' the answer would appear blatantly self-evident.

The second any politician suggests that those with mental issues or checkered pasts might need to be restricted from gun ownership

I believe the NRA actually supports the idea of a national registry of the mentally ill as one way to stem gun violence. In this case, 'checkered past' is a bit of a euphemism. Miller is a man who spent three years in Federal prison for weapons violations + contempt of court after being chased down in a nationwide manhunt and tear gassed out of his ammo filled mobile home. He is going to find a way to get a gun no matter what law is in the way.

Better check to see if he plays video games.

I believe the NRA actually supports the idea of a national registry of the mentally ill as one way to stem gun violence.

You "believe" that? That this organization, which will stop at nothing until all Americans are armed to the teeth, would compromise on anything? And, hypothetically, if they did, how would insanity be defined, and how would privacy be secured? If there was ever a red herring, it is the gun lobby "concern" with mental health. More here:

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-nra-gained-the-last-time-congress-strengthened-gun-laws

The latest information on the suspect is that the man is a known KKK leader that ran for congress.

As Lizz correctly points out: " In this case, 'checkered past' is a bit of a euphemism. (Yes, it was an intentional understatement )Miller is a man who spent three years in Federal prison for weapons violations + contempt of court after being chased down in a nationwide manhunt and tear gassed out of his ammo filled mobile home. He is going to find a way to get a gun no matter what law is in the way."

Due to his criminal history, legal firearm possession for him is a non-starter much like for other previously convicted violent felons. My question is why he wasn't already locked up away from society. Laws don't prevent those intent on doing harm to others. Only respect for others can do that.

Because he wasn't convicted on anything close to a 30 year charge. Add in plea dealing to the mix = Too many secrets, plus no accountability, plus sovereign immunity = trouble....

2 shooting sprees and 1 stabbing spree in the last week in the US?

There was one a few blocks from my house in January when three people were killed in that supermarket shooting, and then another in a mall in Minnesota (or Oregon ?) a week later. I sort of lost track after that. If I had trouble sleeping, concentrating, eating or remembering even simple tasks I can't even begin to imagine what the trauma must have done to survivors, families and the community at large. Gun violence is a "natural" event until it literally hits too close to home.

Sad and correct observation Tahooochi. Don't know why all the hostility. Is it we are a evil collaboration of races? Is it our entertainment? Is it the water? Whatever the problem is we need to identify it better than we do right now.

Ok, so if every kid there at the Jewish Center had had their UZIs ready, yup, just shoot away and then we would have been reading about good Jewish kids and older folk to standing their grounds Florida style and these crazy old white Nazi would be shot dead, and guns do NOT kill people??