3 Democrats unsure about changing votes for health care
The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.
JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
-
N Korea stages mass military parade for late leader
( 4 )
-
Maid kills Singaporean widow after being called stupid
( 4 )
-
At least 356 killed in Honduras prison fire
( 3 )
-
Republicans oppose any cuts in nuclear weapons
( 24 )
-
Russia: West 'slammed door' on Syria at U.N.
( 11 )
-
- Financial Advisor
- Select Asset Management KK, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥100,000 ~ ¥999,999 Paid Training Commission Based
-
- Corporate Business English Trainers
- ACT Systems, Inc.（株式会社アクト・システムズ）, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥269,500 ~ ¥280,000 / Month
-
- English Instructor (Osaka, Kyoto, Kobe)
- Berlitz Japan, Inc. (ベルリッツ・ジャパン株式会社), Kansai
- Salary: ¥125,000 ~ ¥250,000 / Month
Order by Time Order by Popularity
30 Comments
Login to comment
0
pamelot
They want to keep their J-O-B. Nothing complicated there.
0
Wolfpack
ObamaCare looks to be dead. President Obama and the Democrat leaders just can't stop dragging this pathetic failure of theirs out. In the end, House Democrats will not trust that Senate Dems will be able to fix it after they are suckered into voting for a bill they hate. Let's move on to Jobs Jobs Jobs!
0
sf2k
this law only gets everyone to the same table, as good or as bad as it is. 2-3 follow-up laws would end duplication and get some semblance of understanding to the whole mess. Much like anyone's constitution the important thing is to get the process started then add amendments, not hope for one law that works perfectly.
0
SushiSake3
Doing nothing will only make an already bad situation even worse.
This bill - or a variant of it - needs to be passed.
0
Molenir
Lets hope so, but I really wouldn't count out Pelosi. She has a bad history of being able to threaten, and cajole her members into line. And when she can't do that, she cuts em loose, like she did with that NY Dem this last week. He got in trouble ethically, but unlike Charlie Rangel and so many other Dems with ethics problems, him, she got to resign. Since he was a no vote, thats 1 less no she needs to worry about.
0
SushiSake3
Molenir, good point about Pelosi.
I think one of the key differences between the Dems and the GOP is the Dems don't have a hitman like Tom DeLay who can get members to all vote in line.
0
Odogma
The Democrats resemble, more and more, a crime syndicate posing as a political party. How can so many be so fooled?
0
SushiSake3
Odogma, your point is moot. The GOP did exactly the same, only far worse.
The conversation at this point becomes boring.
0
RomeoRamenII
Republicans and democrats both realize Obama's a pushover and they now they've begun to feed off of him. He's taken on the role of a drunk girl at a frat party and now they're passing him around.
Obama's being reduced to becoming America's "pretty please" president.
Heh, liberals have no choice but to watch it happen and cry into their pillows.
0
skipthesong
they really should put this at the state level now first and as more and more states adopt it, then they could smoothly move it over to the fed.
0
pointofview
Why are so many people opposed to the health care bill anyway?
0
sailwind
Costs 1 trillion dollars on top of what we Americans are already being gouged paying now for starters. Not rocket science to fiquire out why most Americans said no way on this approach the Democrats have taken to reform health care. Americans wants health care reform that reigns in costs not expands it, this bill does just the exact opposite.
0
Odogma
Because it is poorly crafted, does not address tort reform and because Americans have come to realise in the last year that although unnecessarily expensive they have the best health care in the world.They system needs reform.No one would argue that.But 'liberals' - who don't trust doctors, hospital administrators, drug companies and insurance companies - apparently trust elected officials (Democrats) and the Democrat Party's biggest supporters in the private sector:lawyers.
0
SushiSake3
Sail, healthcare costs are going to go up regardless due to people living longer and more expensive treatments. This bill will help contain future cost growth. Doing nothing will lead costs to continue to bleed unabated. Why? As I went into in detail on a related thread last week, while this bill sounds like it will cost a lot, it's spread over 10 years (only $200B a year). But more importantly than the relatively low cost of this bill, having everyone insured will lead more people to seek preventative care, which - as an example - will result in a cost of, say, $50 for preventative medicine over $50000 - not to mention personal bankruptcy and all the ramications that entails - for full-blown surgury.
0
Odogma
To Americans here I will say again - to a person any non-American arguing for this wretched 'plan' does so not from genuine concern for you or your fellow Americans but more from jealousy and the well-known misanthropic disposition where misery loves company.
0
RomeoRamenII
Because Americans do not want to face fines or jail time for not signing up for ObamaCare.
0
SushiSake3
Odogma, if you want to put petty jealousy and emotion ahead of numbers and logic, that's your call.
0
sailwind
Not true actually, it is how we deliver health care and the lawyer driven bloat and administration costs that is the real heart of the problem.
Together with two colleagues, Dr. Elliott Fisher, who today leads the Atlas project, wrote a widely read study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in 2003. It took Wennberg’s tonsil approach to a new level, looking at end-of-life care for people with broken hips, colorectal cancer and heart attacks, broken down by regions across America. In the regions with the highest spending, patients received 60% more health care, including minor procedures, tests, doctor visits and specialist use—and for all of it, they were slightly more likely to die. Fisher wrote that if all regions could safely reduce spending to match the low-use regions, Medicare would save 30%.
Medicare will spend $484 billion this year, and 30% of that is about $145 billion. That works out to $1,276 a year for the average household, money that could be used to reduce taxes or help close the federal budget deficit.
Ain't nobody buying that one. When has a new Government program in the entire history of America ever contained future costs? Social Security? Medicare (see above) Department of Homeland Security? Massachusetts is the closet state with universal healthcare, they have a mandate on all their citizens to purchase health insurance, guess what happen since then. Rates have gone up about 9 percent for all residents and they are so agaisn't going nationwide with a mandate because they know they're rates will go even higher then what they are paying now.
By the way you have never commented on this article that I have referenced many times, it is totally non-partisan by the way.
A better group to do the math is the non-partisan National Academy of Sciences. Its Institute of Medicine ran the numbers in September. It found $210 billion waiting to be saved from unnecessary services, like branded drugs used where generics would do. It also found $85 billion in overspending on doctors and hospitals that are overpriced relative to benchmarks. And there was $195 billion in unnecessary insurance administration costs. And a lot more. The total: $810 billion a year in health-care spending that doesn’t make us healthier. That’s 10 times the savings Congress is arguing over, only delivered every year instead of being spread over a decade. Per household, it’s $7,132 a year.
http://www.smartmoney.com/investing/economy/how-much-could-health-care-reform-save-you/
The above is why we should dump this atrocity and start from scratch using the last paragraph as the starting part for a real health care reform bill.
0
SushiSake3
Odogma - "To Americans here I will say again - to a person any non-American arguing for this wretched 'plan' does so not from genuine concern for you or your fellow Americans but more from jealousy and the well-known misanthropic disposition where misery loves company."
**TRANSLATION: **"Damn! I hate it when foreigners know more about my country than I do!"
0
skipthesong
Why are so many people opposed to the health care bill anyway?" Well, that's like asking why support when you don't know what's in it. 90% of those who say they support and 90% of those who oppose it, don't know what's in it.
From personal experience, I fear the gov running anything. its just my opinion. Also, there is nothing in this bill that is going to touch on the main issue - costs, cheaper meds (there is no denying that they just made a big deal with the big pharma), quality, and also nothing about those with out insurance. They need a bill to come out that proves its better than what we have. This bill does not do that.
No one against health care reform in terms of costs regardless of the spin several posters here put on it.
0
adaydream
skipthesong
There aren't as many people against health care reform as you would like people to believe. The republicans want people to believe that 95% of the people don't want this package. But in reality, I have talked to many many more people who want the health care reform to pass.
I look forward to this bill passing. < :-)
0
Molenir
And of those 10% who know whats in the bill, 85% oppose it. The more you know about whats in this bill, the less in favor of it you tend to be. Have you sat down and read all 2000 plus pages skip? Here, go ahead and sit down and read it.
http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf
0
skipthesong
aday's at it again: "There aren't as many people against health care reform as you would like people to believe. The republicans want people to believe that 95% of the people don't want this package."
Folks, you see what I mean? Even aday, the most ardent supporter of anything with Obama's signature can't tell me what's in the bill that makes all the problems as why is supposed to be there to go away.
0
pointofview
Then they should have a national vote and seal the deal. That would be true democracy.
0
skipthesong
Then they should have a national vote and seal the deal. That would be true democracy." Yes and no. So states like Cali, Texas, and NY, which have large populations would be the deciding factors. Also, they wouldn't be allowed to give states which were on the fence like Nebraska special deals.
Mass, Tenn, Hawaii would also take a big hit.
0
adaydream
Okay skipthesong let me put it a little simpler for you. You say that 90% of the public is against it. I'm saying you're wrong. If people are ask if they support the Obama health care bill they say, no. But if they are ask if they support what's in it and they are told no disqualification for prior illnesses, no limits, no dropping for sickness, etc, they are all for it.
The republicans want you to believe that if it passes the democrats will be slaughtered for the vote. The fact is, if the democrats don't get this bill passed, they will have a lot to answer for to their constituents. That's why they were voted in. < :-)
0
Molenir
You forget, that their constituents, are 100% of the people in their district. Those hardcore supporters only make up about 30%. You have roughly another 30% Republicans, the rest are Independents. Support for Obamas plan among Dems, last I heard was about 80%. Some polls lower, some higher. Support among Republicans is about 6%. Again, some more, some less. Support among Independents, the ones most Dems rely on to get themselves re-elected has been steadily falling, the more they hear about Obamacare. Some polls have it as low as 20%, some more, some less. Thats serious damage any way you look at it.
0
skipthesong
aday: re-read my post again. Well, that's like asking why support when you don't know what's in it. 90% of those who say they support and 90% of those who oppose it, don't know what's in it."
Now we are starting to learn about the problems with America... its the distortions people like you put up.
0
Helter_Skelter
I see, adaydream. So we'll take your anecdotal survey over the national polls. < :-)
0
adaydream
Helter_Skelter, skipthesong and Molenir I guess we'll just have to see. I say you three are all full of thatch, but we'll see pretty soon. Who will take the hit when it passes? < :-)
Back to top