There seem to be a few "christians" and "jews" who would take their religion to extremes that result in the state taking the children for their own protection. It's fairly regular in NY with a few sects who refuse modern medical treatment for minor children. Parents refuse, kid gets picked up by social services.
Unfortunately Islam preaches that young girls can be married off. This seems to be limited to the Middle Eastern version of Islam. The Indonesians don't seem to condone it. But then the middle east is like one big feudal culture.
Islam, as practiced in the middle east, should be considered a plague by the modern world. Too bad there isn't a vaccine.
fatfrenchfool: how about you try to think of the choice 3?
No buddy. Your turn. If you got some brilliant way to protect prepubescent females in Saudi from a fate worse than unconsummated marriage, and the Saudis are going to embrace it with relish, then post it. I have said my bit.
One of the main reasons why S.A. doesn't want to denounce child weddings outright is because Muhammed himself married a 4-year-old, and they feel like by banning these marriages they are condemning the acts of Muhammed.
"
This seems to be limited to the Middle Eastern version of Islam.
"
No, marrying off kindergarten-age girls is practised everywhere where islam is taken literally, and that is everywhere where the islamic scholars get their way.
That includes Iran (not "Middle Eastern" country, and Shiite not Sunni), northern Nigeria, and fundamentalist islamic pockets everywhere, maybe even in your backyard.
Remember, the muslim prophet took a 6-year wife into his harem, and he is the role model for every true muslim believer.
The Saudi geezer with his 8-year old wife was simply following true islamic scripture, and the Saudi Shariah courts correctly defended this according to the Sharia.
"
One of the main reasons why S.A. doesn't want to denounce child weddings outright is because Muhammed himself married a 4-year-old,
"
Incorrect. Aisha was 6 (six), when Mohammed (at age 52) added her to his harem, and she was 9 (nine) when he had intercourse with her.
This is the muslim role model, and it is (including the ages) described in detail in islamic scripture.
I might have gotten the age wrong, as I didn't bother to check Wikipedia before I wrote this, but I think the gist of what I am trying to say is the same. 4, 6, or 9; she was still what we consider to be a child, and outlawing child marriages is a condemnation of his actions. I don't care when they consummated their marriage - that is besides the point.
And likeitis, I'm not passing judgement as to the happiness of Aisha in her marriage, that really doesn't matter for the point I am trying to make.
Molenir: At least he had the decency to wait 3 years til she was 9. Much better then this saudi bastard who didn't wait even a day.
There is whole thread above. Reading it might prove enlightening. It would seem that they had not even met, and definitely had not met as husband and wife.
And likeitis, I'm not passing judgement as to the happiness of Aisha in her marriage, that really doesn't matter for the point I am trying to make.
Yes, I know. By that time in the now deleted post, I was simply pointing out that those who bring up Aisha seem to know only one small detail about her; her age when she married Muhammad. As if that just completely defines Aisha. In fact, Aisha just seems to be a stepping stone of whom they take little note in their desperation to attack Muhammad and Islam. She hardly seems to have been a human being to them.
ninacma: outlawing child marriages is a condemnation of his actions.
Yes, it is a stupidity endemic to Islam. Muhammad was a prophet, a special person. Thinking every fool should do exactly what such a special person did it extremely stupid. So is thinking that outlawing something he did as a result of a vision over a thousand years ago is an insult to him. I don't think this guy in the article or any other had a vision of their child bride, did they? Therefore, they are NOT doing what Muhammad did anyhow, just a small mimicking of a small detail of what he did.
I don't care when they consummated their marriage - that is besides the point.
Is it? For most here, it seems paramount. I do not think they would care if the marriage was only on paper, it would not be consumated until she was 18, and she was free to divorce at any time without the consumation. Then, suddenly, they would see all the potential benefits of the marriage and regard it as some quaint foreign tradition.
they would see all the potential benefits of the marriage and regard it as some quaint foreign tradition.<
A tradition that makes it impossible for the child in question to lead a carefree life as a child should. Or is it appropriate to have to remind a little girl not to do this or that because she is a married woman? As it is, this girl is now a divorcee, a girl with a past. And puberty comes young in those parts too. Gah, they probably had to return the bride price to the old goat plus damages and the family is going to be the laugingstock of the whole nation. A weak father like that is likely to take it out on his women. What a world.
There is whole thread above. Reading it might prove enlightening. It would seem that they had not even met, and definitely had not met as husband and wife.
Try doing a little research on the subject before you spout off on this. The father married this girl to the guy, they lived together and the marriage was consummated before the mother could reclaim her daughter. This whole story was in the papers months ago. So they had definitely met as "husband and wife" Though I doubt very seriously if the little girl enjoyed it. In fact, if I remember right, the original article talked about how the little girl was happy to be away from her new husband, as that way she might be able to go back to school.
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ca1ic0cat at 03:11 AM JST - 6th May
There seem to be a few "christians" and "jews" who would take their religion to extremes that result in the state taking the children for their own protection. It's fairly regular in NY with a few sects who refuse modern medical treatment for minor children. Parents refuse, kid gets picked up by social services.
Unfortunately Islam preaches that young girls can be married off. This seems to be limited to the Middle Eastern version of Islam. The Indonesians don't seem to condone it. But then the middle east is like one big feudal culture.
Islam, as practiced in the middle east, should be considered a plague by the modern world. Too bad there isn't a vaccine.
BurakuminDes at 02:55 PM JST - 6th May
She sounds like a little gold-digger and a man-eater...her dad made a fortune from her. No doubt she will now go off and nab another rich man.
BurakuminDes at 02:56 PM JST - 6th May
...by the way, I was being facetious...
likeitis at 04:47 PM JST - 6th May
No buddy. Your turn. If you got some brilliant way to protect prepubescent females in Saudi from a fate worse than unconsummated marriage, and the Saudis are going to embrace it with relish, then post it. I have said my bit.
ninacma at 12:09 AM JST - 7th May
One of the main reasons why S.A. doesn't want to denounce child weddings outright is because Muhammed himself married a 4-year-old, and they feel like by banning these marriages they are condemning the acts of Muhammed.
WilliB at 12:27 AM JST - 7th May
ca1ic0cat:
No, marrying off kindergarten-age girls is practised everywhere where islam is taken literally, and that is everywhere where the islamic scholars get their way.
That includes Iran (not "Middle Eastern" country, and Shiite not Sunni), northern Nigeria, and fundamentalist islamic pockets everywhere, maybe even in your backyard.
Remember, the muslim prophet took a 6-year wife into his harem, and he is the role model for every true muslim believer.
The Saudi geezer with his 8-year old wife was simply following true islamic scripture, and the Saudi Shariah courts correctly defended this according to the Sharia.
WilliB at 12:30 AM JST - 7th May
ninacma:
Incorrect. Aisha was 6 (six), when Mohammed (at age 52) added her to his harem, and she was 9 (nine) when he had intercourse with her. This is the muslim role model, and it is (including the ages) described in detail in islamic scripture.
Molenir at 01:44 AM JST - 7th May
At least he had the decency to wait 3 years til she was 9. Much better then this saudi bastard who didn't wait even a day.
ninacma at 03:45 AM JST - 7th May
I might have gotten the age wrong, as I didn't bother to check Wikipedia before I wrote this, but I think the gist of what I am trying to say is the same. 4, 6, or 9; she was still what we consider to be a child, and outlawing child marriages is a condemnation of his actions. I don't care when they consummated their marriage - that is besides the point.
And likeitis, I'm not passing judgement as to the happiness of Aisha in her marriage, that really doesn't matter for the point I am trying to make.
likeitis at 07:27 AM JST - 7th May
There is whole thread above. Reading it might prove enlightening. It would seem that they had not even met, and definitely had not met as husband and wife.
likeitis at 07:33 AM JST - 7th May
Yes, I know. By that time in the now deleted post, I was simply pointing out that those who bring up Aisha seem to know only one small detail about her; her age when she married Muhammad. As if that just completely defines Aisha. In fact, Aisha just seems to be a stepping stone of whom they take little note in their desperation to attack Muhammad and Islam. She hardly seems to have been a human being to them.
likeitis at 07:45 AM JST - 7th May
Yes, it is a stupidity endemic to Islam. Muhammad was a prophet, a special person. Thinking every fool should do exactly what such a special person did it extremely stupid. So is thinking that outlawing something he did as a result of a vision over a thousand years ago is an insult to him. I don't think this guy in the article or any other had a vision of their child bride, did they? Therefore, they are NOT doing what Muhammad did anyhow, just a small mimicking of a small detail of what he did.
Is it? For most here, it seems paramount. I do not think they would care if the marriage was only on paper, it would not be consumated until she was 18, and she was free to divorce at any time without the consumation. Then, suddenly, they would see all the potential benefits of the marriage and regard it as some quaint foreign tradition.
nokomarie at 12:53 AM JST - 8th May
A tradition that makes it impossible for the child in question to lead a carefree life as a child should. Or is it appropriate to have to remind a little girl not to do this or that because she is a married woman? As it is, this girl is now a divorcee, a girl with a past. And puberty comes young in those parts too. Gah, they probably had to return the bride price to the old goat plus damages and the family is going to be the laugingstock of the whole nation. A weak father like that is likely to take it out on his women. What a world.
Molenir at 09:42 AM JST - 8th May
Try doing a little research on the subject before you spout off on this. The father married this girl to the guy, they lived together and the marriage was consummated before the mother could reclaim her daughter. This whole story was in the papers months ago. So they had definitely met as "husband and wife" Though I doubt very seriously if the little girl enjoyed it. In fact, if I remember right, the original article talked about how the little girl was happy to be away from her new husband, as that way she might be able to go back to school.
Nessie at 09:52 AM JST - 8th May
He turns 50 and she dumps him? What a hussy.