Abortion foes fear backlash to doctor's murder
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0
jeancolmar
This is like the KKK fearing backlash over a lynching. It is the so-called Right to Life terrorist filth that set the moral and emotional tone for Dr. Tiller's assassination. Do not forget that Dr. Tiller's clinic was bombed in 1985 and he was shot in both arms by an anti-abortion terrorist in 1993. Note: "According to the National Abortion Federation, Tiller was the eighth U.S. abortion provider murdered since 1977, and 17 others had been targeted with attempted murder."
Also note that Randall Terry is not the proverbial lone gunman. He is "a veteran anti-abortion activist whose protests have often targeted Tiller." This is a man who is steeped in the ideology and tactics of the anti-abortionists. His is not simply a loner who drifted into a movement for muddled personal reasons; he is a part of the whole cloth of the anti-abortion movement. He is a trained fanatic, just like any Al Qaeda suicide bomber.
We are hearing the anti-abortion Bin Ladens condemning this killing, as you would expect. But what are they really thinking, and what is the rank and file saying behind our backs. I'll bet the farm that not a few of them are saying Randall Terry did a good thing and good riddance to "Tiller the killer" and too bad a good man like Randy had to sacrifice himself" and so on.
The anti-abortion gang is worried about a backlash against them because of this assassination. If there is a backlash it will be one that they have brought upon themselves. They can be fairly certain it will not reach the fanatic violence that their people have perpetuated on abortion providers over the years.
What worries me is that Randall Terry will become a martyr to the cause will inspire more violence against abortion clinic and doctors.
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smithinjapan
'Said the Rev Patrick Mahoney, an anti-abortion activist: “No one should use this tragedy for political gain.”'
Haha! But when it's the other way around, and 'infanticide' is being practiced it's always fodder for politics, eh?
"What worries me is that Randall Terry will become a martyr to the cause will inspire more violence against abortion clinic and doctors."
How would more violence against abortion doctors make him a martyr? Isn't what's happening now -- ie. backlash -- the martyrdom?
0
SezWho2
smithinjapan,
You beat me to it. The Reverend seems to want to be the arbiter of what can and cannot be used for political gain. I hear an echo from the gun lobby.
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grafton
teleprompter at 10:33 AM JST - 2nd June
Any chance you could post a link? I for one would like to know a little more about this.
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adaydream
The martyr here is Dr. George Tiller. Dr. Tiller has only been practicing a profession that is legal and medically needed.
Dr. Tiller has been shot before and his clinic bombed. These anti-abortion people think that they are so right that they can harm, destroy and kill in the name of their cause, whether it be religious or not.
Randall Terry and his ilk are no better then any other terrorists. < :-)
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teleprompter
links for latest sudden jihad syndrome
http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0609/627959.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/us/02recruit.html?_r=1&ref=us
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adaydream
Actually teleprompter I've been watching highlights about both incidents. No more time on one then the other. < :-)
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grafton
teleprompter
Many thanks
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jeancolmar
I meant if Randall Terry is convicted and sentenced he will become a martyr to the "Right to Life" terrorists.
You know why the abortion debate is either low-key or not a debate in Japan and Europe? The absence of large numbers of religious fanatics. The US is unfortunately crawling with Christian coo-coos.
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jeancolmar
And right about, 'Said the Rev Patrick Mahoney, an anti-abortion activist: “No one should use this tragedy for political gain.”' Truly an opportunist creep of the first order. In other words, be quite, leave the Right to Life Bin Ladens alone. Hey, the Dr. Tiller was assassinated on political grounds. This is a political issue. And that issue is Christian terrorism against abortion caregivers that has been allowed to go on for decades.
0
Beelzebub
The only thing we can conclude from all this is that 98% of the screeching comes from the people who are polarized on opposite extremes of the issue, and that the mass media is delighted to milk this shooting and its repercussions for all it is worth. Oh yes, and that your chances of being shot while in a church are higher than at a baseball game, since the latter enforces more stringent security.
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smithinjapan
Beelzebub: "Oh yes, and that your chances of being shot while in a church are higher than at a baseball game, since the latter enforces more stringent security."
Bang on, so to speak. In fact, if a lot of the Right-wing church-goers had their way guns would be MANDATORY at church, or at least everyone should be armed at all times, including the house of God.
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Betzee
China is an Asian nation relatively free of religious fanatics - and just look at how well their state-mandated, state-supported abortion program has turned out.
The average Chinese person supports draconian family planning policies as necessary given the country's limited resources. If you've ever tried to get on a public bus in Shanghai you might too.
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teleprompter
franz -
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/004063.php
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franz75
teleprompter: thanks for the link. interesting but we won't agree on this point.
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realist
You dont have to be a "religious fantatic" to be totally against the massacre of the unborn that happens on a daily basis in godless America. I totally and utterly condemn the murder of this doctor. The person who did this (and please remember, it was one person who did this, and not everyone who is anti abortion is a terrorist) is equally as guilty of murder as the doctor and the other abortionists in America. Two wrongs do not make a right. This man did no service to the cause of the Pro-Life groups in America. The deluded. evil man who carried out this murdersous attack in the doctor is definately not "pro-life" because what he did was demonic in nature, and was the antithesis of being "pro-life."
I do not believe that the man who carried out this dastardly murder is a Christian. He could not be a True Christian and do such a thing, since murder is murder, and is a sin against God. It is breaking the Sixth Commandment, Thou shalt not kill. Shame on those of you who use such expressions as "Christian Terrorists." The two words simply do not go together. It is impossible to be a true Christian and also a terrorist.
America is not a Christian nation, it once claimed to be, but it has rejected God and God`s Laws. The dollar bill proudly states on its backside "In God our Trust," yet in America in 2009 the only thing that they trust in is the seven deadly sins. They have abandoned God and His Righteousness. Small wonder then, that God has abandoned them. This sad event is but another sign of the decline of once-0great America, which was proud of its Christian heritage and its Christian foundations. Now it is a sad, dim relfection of what it once was.
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smithinjapan
teleprompter: This incident is mentioned on 'jihadwatch'? Didn't know they were so related.
As I said, all you're doing is strengthening the case that this guy is no better than terrorists, and using his religion to justify what he did is no better than radical Islamists who do the same. Like you can't blame all of Christianity for what this man did, and what the article is about (foes of abortion worrying about the backlash), you cannot blame all of Islam for the actions of a few... you know... since you brought it up.
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OneForAll
People...Scott Roeder is the Killer not Randall Terry. Randall Terry only said “George Tiller was a mass murderer and we cannot stop saying that,” Terry said. “He was an evil man—his hands were covered with blood.”
Late term abortion should be something limited and controlled for the clump of cells as people say can survive by itself outside the baby palace and grow to adulthood as a person. This should be common ground for both sides to work from. People get more upset over seals being clubbed. As As Bill Clinton said: "Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare." Abortion is more complex then just choice as Obama says. There is more then just choice because there are two lives and one might put a Father in there for three. I have faith in my country to follow the middle path.
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OneForAll
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-06-01-abortiondoc_N.htm
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OneForAll
Realist - nice post. America always had and always will have things to correct. We had slavery during the "Christian era" which really is an abomination. As long as we can keep the freedom of assembly, the press and free speech, we should be able to find our way. When we error the results will raise its ugly head to help us go in the right direction. When we lose our freedoms then we can worry. The nation still has the majority of people with Christian values. We may not hear them but they are there. The old silent majority. They vote.
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adaydream
OneForOne
I'm not agreeing with your grounds. We have little common ground. < :-)
0
dennis0bauer
only in front of a camera
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teleprompter
smithinjapan:
No, jihadwatch had a link from The Scotsman about religious extremism. That's what blogs do.They link. I know that free speech terrifies you but it's time, after years here, that you try and broaden your horizons.
If you bother to check the mainstream US media's coverage of the unfortunate doctor's murder you will find some of the major networks have tried to take the actions of the killer - an anarchist with supposedly Xtian views - and insult the American people with more of the kind of moral equivalency that has lost the three major networks so many viewers these last ten years.
Here is an unchallenged interviewee on MSNBC with an exaggerated and absurd comparison, but one that the likes of Keef Olbermann are undoubtedly sympathetic to:
"So we don't have to invade other countries to find the terrorists. They’re here killing doctors who do abortions. The difference between – the main difference between the American anti-abortion movement and the Taliban is about 8,000 miles." " [via the June 1 2009 entry for http://newsbusters.org/]
Since I knew they would do this I chose to bring up other examples of religious extremism and at the same time reply to Jean Colmar's slander of my country by pointing out a few things about extremism in his country he is blissfully unaware of.
I take offense to all forms of religious extremism.
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smithinjapan
teleprompter: "I take offense to all forms of religious extremism."
Now THAT's a point worth arguing. It still doesn't in any way warrant you going off on tangents about how this is somehow 'linked' to radical Islam, or China's one child policy. The only thing you've succeeded in, as this murderer did, is drawing flak towards your own stance on things and STRENGTHENING the argument that the guy is akin to Islamic terrorists.
And no, freedom of speech doesn't terrify me in the least. In fact, I encourage anyone and everyone to leave their opinions on this board; YOU'RE the one who feels the need to come on here and say that a poster's comment has no relevance due to their nationality (ie. 'non-Americans') when it's painfully clear that they've beaten you hands down in regards to argument.
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skipthesong
It still doesn't in any way warrant you going off on tangents about how this is somehow 'linked' to radical Islam"
In a way, it does. Listen to a lot of conversation how much the very people who would defend any type of behavior from Islamists are the same ones right now villifying Christians, saying "see, they are just as bad".
I personally think religion has a lot to do with it. This guy must hve gone to a church that empowered him with such views. Like I said many times, ban religions and get to modern times.
0
Madverts
I don't get it - when it's gay marriage the radical right start frothing about "polygamy". Then, when one of their own turns terrorist and guns down a medical professional some come here with link after link about islamic jihad?
What gives, fellas?
0
JoeBigs
The far right wing fanatics are beginning to realize that their words have come back to bite them. 8 years of yelling about terrorist threats may have some back to haunt the far right.
I hope that they feel the bite of the anti-terrorist teeth that they helped to create.
I hope that soon President Obama uses what the far right gave him to hunt down their animals. One can only hope that these animals that kill in the name of their so called god get the same treatment as their prisoners at Gitmo......
I hope that the far right and their backers feel the backlash that they have created.
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taiko666
jeancolmar: I think the reason the abortion debate is much more civilized outside America is due to the lack of blinkered, bigotted, hate-filled people like you who make pathetic claims such as that people who don't share you're opinion are 'religious fanatics.' Instead of weighing both sides of the issue with intelligence and decorum, as both the pro and anti camps do in Europe (apart from you of course), you polarise the debate into GOOD and BAD and fan the flames with your crass rhetoric. You are a fanatic.
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skipthesong
taiko: You really haven't been anywhere, have you?
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jonnyboy
well, perhaps they'll have to admit that the term "pro-life" is inaccurate at best. i suggest they start using the more accurate and truthful term "pro-dogma"
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smithinjapan
skip: "I personally think religion has a lot to do with it. This guy must hve gone to a church that empowered him with such views. Like I said many times, ban religions and get to modern times."
Please... teleprompter was only bringing up Islam and suicide bombers/jihadists, China's one-child policy, and pretty much every thing else to take the topic off what happened and put it on his favourite -- how evil Islam is.
Of COURSE religion has something to do with what happened, but it's not religion that's to BLAME, it's the man who twisted religion for his own purposes. People shouldn't vilify Christianity for it, they should limit the vilifying to the man who committed this heinous crime.
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teleprompter
Not that the mainstream media and the Left (I repeat myself) care but the killer's brother issued a statement saying the man who shot Dr Tiller had a history of mental illness.
And now my Joe Bigs impersonation:
Um, um, The Unabomber was an extremist and a killer.
We must outlaw the Sierra Club!
0
TheQuestion
Before I throw my two cents into this sociopolitical quagmire let me make my stance clear. Abortion: Morally I'm against it but because it's legal so it has my support until such a time it may be deemed otherwise.
Pro-life is a view point and as with all viewpoints its implimentation is subject to the wills of the people that hold them. Technically it only makes sense that a pro-life organization would condemn a murder (ie an anti-life act). The man who commited this act therefore should not be associated with any sort of 'pro-life' movement as he acts counter to the overt (as we can only speculate at the possible covert) motives of any legitimate organization.
0
yabits
Which made him fit right in with the anti-abortion fringers.
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smithinjapan
Anyway, what I see on here is a lot of people blaming the man himself, with a FEW people both blaming the religion as a whole, the movement of 'pro-life', and even a few supporting not what the man did but what the pro-life movement stands for. Worse yet, what I see are some people like you trying to take the limelight of this criminal by pointing out crimes occuring 8000 miles away and saying it's not fair to be mad at this man.
Finally: "It is amazing (and alas predictable)..." is impossible. It's called a paradoxical statement. What's amazing is that it's amazing to you this would make all the headlines. And lest we forget, the article is not about how people are condemning the religious right, but how the church and pro-life movement are concerned their chickens might be coming home to roost... in a manner of speaking.
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jonnyboy
i disagree. any belief system that discourages individuals to think objectively, analytically and responsibly is bound to result in bloodshed somewhere down the line.
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jeancolmar
People who bomb abortion clinics and kill abortion doctors, on top of intimidating women going into those clinics are hate-filled fanatics. While we have our share of hate-filled fanatics in Europe and Japan few if any of them would bother with a woman's right to choose to abort or not to abort. I am pro-choice. Being pro-choice is actually quite neutral, as it does not demand that women follow any rules except their own consciences. I know of women who were pro-choice but chose to have their babies out of wedlock. Their choices was personal and not signals that people who chose otherwise were wrong. China with its forced abortions is not pro-choice.
If this assassination were an isolated incident it would not have to worry the Right to Lifers as much as it does. They are worried because it is not an isolated incident. It is a part of a pattern that has been with us for decades.
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taiko666
jonnyboy: I agree 100% with that sentiment about religion. But what about the non-religious, agnostic/athiest people who think objectively, analytically and responsibly and yet come to a different conclusion from you?
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smithinjapan
jonnyboy: "i disagree. any belief system that discourages individuals to think objectively, analytically and responsibly is bound to result in bloodshed somewhere down the line."
Please! That's people who do that, including athiests and government, not religion. This man made a choice, not god, and god and other believers cannot be held responsible. If the pro-life movement and/or Christianity openly condones it, then yes, perhaps they can; but even then it's still radical nuts who are doing the pushing and twisting religion to their own ends, not the religion itself.
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taiko666
jeancolmar: You're entitled to your view. Yet all people who differ even slightly from your view are 'religious fanatics? I see 'dogma' from only one group of posters.
0
WilliB
Smith:
Total double standards. Nobody is defending the nutbag who killed the doctor, yet look a the intensity of the reporting and broad attacks. Meanwhile, nobody says anything about the religion that made the muslim convert go on his little jihad, to the contrary, Obama goes on his muslim grovelling tour, blaming his country.
Double-standard, and they are yours.
I know about hand-holding. a) That was not a bow, b) that was not on a state visit, and c) he was thoroughly lambasted for that, not least by your political sided.
Again, double standard, and yours.
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smithinjapan
WilliB: "Double-standard, and they are yours."
Oh, geez! That's right, I forgot to report them in my personal newspaper that circulates world-wide. Duh! Now, how is anything like that, if it's a double standard, MY double standard when I had no knowledge of it because it hasn't been splashed across the media like the incident here with an abortion doctor murder?
1) One reason it hasn't is because it's not the same level of news, for better or for worse. That you can't see that speaks volumes about your inability to separate 'news' from 'non news' (or things that happen more frequently).
"I know about hand-holding. a) That was not a bow, b) that was not on a state visit, and c) he was thoroughly lambasted for that, not least by your political sided.Again, double standard, and yours."
In this case you're just being plain hypocritical.
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JoeBigs
He did have a mental illness, it is called religious fanatic.....
Meaning: [count] 1 : a person who is very enthusiastic about something ▪ I became a boating fanatic. 2 disapproving : someone who has extreme ideas about politics, religion, etc. ▪ a religious fanatic [=extremist]
Sierra Club......Hm one second, let me open my anti-religious fanatic handbook........Nope they only rate a 4 out of 12....
Now if you would have said outlaw the army of god, then by golly let's start hunting them down.....
BTW, it is not Um um, it Hm hm or Hmmmmmm....Now try better next time....And do not forget the one you all on the far right looooooooove my "LOL"....LOL!!!
BTW you guys are tooooooo funny!LOL
For all those that support these far right fringe religious fanatic group I have a question; The question is, if Abortion Doctors are such evil people, then why haven't any of them gone out and shot some of these fanatics in their homes or churches?
Answer is, they are not the evil people....Religious fanatics are.....
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