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  adaydream at 01:41 AM JST - 12th June

  DanManjt, Under your thinking everybody should build nukes, just to protect themselves by the fact that I have a weapon or weapons that can out kill you.

  Under this train of thought, every country that feels any kind of threat from anybody should be building bigger and more powerful nukes. Than it's perfectly justifiable that Iran build nukes. They are only practicing what you are explaining.

  Then you have the United States who says, I'll kill you if you try to get a weapon bigger and/or more powerful than mine. Even if a country is trying to level the playground, ever so minute.

  Yes, I live in a world where I wish there were no nukes. But the world I open my eyes to isn't that world. So when I see the United States continueing to build up their arsenal and screaming and threatening Iran, without saying crap to India and Pakistan, I get touqued at the hypocracy of it all. < :-)

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  adaydream at 01:43 AM JST - 12th June

  oops...."torqued at the hypocracy of it all."

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  DanManjt at 02:11 AM JST - 12th June

  adaydream

  Under that thinking, to protect themselves all nations either build nukes, cut a deal with a nuclear power, counter-balance nuclear states. Or suffer. Which is exactly what goes on.

  And yes, it makes perfect sense from Iran's perspective to build nukes. Consider her current security environment: The US has invaded and 'regime changed' two of her neighbors, and another of her neighbors, Pakistan, has been flexing her nuclear muscle. They are justified from a realpolitik point of view. Which is what chagrins me so much about all the nonsense about how Iran is run by a bunch of madmen. They are behaving almost text book realists, whereas the Bush League has allowed their conceit and ideology to blind them into blunders that have only decreased US interests and increased Iran's position.

  But back to your point: yes, Iran is behaving as one would expect. And by the same logic of realism that supports Iran's attempt to go nuke, it is in the interests of the US to try to block Iran, or any non-nuclear state, from joining the nuclear club. The US wants to limit the numbers of players on the nuclear playground.

  I suppose given all this that you in the end you, as an American, feel about whether the US's pursuit of power also brings with it a spreading of US values and institutions. And what the alternative to US dominance would look like. Personally, I think the US acts like a typical top dog, does a lot of crappy and harmful things. And beyond that has been and is a force for good in the world beyond simply providing stability and public goods in the international system.

  You are not the first to suggest that all nations should get nukes, because there detterent value would make war a thing of the past. I am not so sure about that. I do know that the current situation where a few powerful nations, and a few not so powerfull nations maintain a nuclear monopoly has meant no hegemonic wars and no nuclear attacks. This is a very good thing. This in historically unprecedented on both counts.

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  DanManjt at 02:15 AM JST - 12th June

  woops

  I suppose given all this that you in the end you, as an American, must decide how you feel about whether the US's pursuit of power also brings with it a spreading of US values and institutions.

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  SuperLib at 02:16 AM JST - 12th June

  Poor daydream....he's outsmarted himself....

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  DanManjt at 02:16 AM JST - 12th June

  "torqued at the hypocracy of it all."

  Hypocrisy is like alcohol. A little serves as an important social lubricant; too much makes you an unbearable blowhard."

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  DanManjt at 02:20 AM JST - 12th June

  And I think safer and more just world is well worth a little moral discomfit.

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  adaydream at 02:33 AM JST - 12th June

  Huh SuperLib, you want to elaborate? < :-)

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  Betzee at 04:08 AM JST - 12th June

  usaexpat,

  We should never hav let the Shah fall. You listening Jimmy Carter, you dolt.

  How exactly do you think Carter should have propped up a terminally ill autocrat? The Shah died the year after he fled. And his heir was a teenager making it highly unlikely he could have held on to power for long. The Shash had a well equipped army that had not been depleted by fighting. And an extensive police force and he still couldn't hold on to power in the face of a broad-based opposition movement.

  That opposition consisted of both those who wished to see genuine democracy in Iran as well as religious fanatics. They coalesced to oppose the Shah but afterwards Khomenei outmaneuvered his secular rivals for power. The US recognized the government established after the Shah fled but the President, who had returned from exile in France, resigned after he failed to free the hostages.

  If Ahmadinejad is succeeded by a moderate I think there will be much more interest in engaging the person that was the case with his predecessor, Mohammad Khatami.

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  KitsuneYoukai at 04:50 AM JST - 12th June

  Look who's calling the kettle black. What a loser.

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  canadianbento at 05:17 AM JST - 12th June

  How many "NUKES" do the Americans, Russians, Israelis, Indians, Pakistanis, British, French, Japanese(NONE)etc. have? WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT HAVE USED THEM? The Americans!!! So why shouldn't the Iranians have them? Because Israel NO!!

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  racid at 06:05 AM JST - 12th June

  somewhat agree with you about US run by a bunch of hypocrits... but you tell us what country isn't? when other countries need help, who is there most of time? yes, I agree the US should stay out of some of the affairs in other countries. US is too busy helping others they've negelected themselves.

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  adaydream at 06:18 AM JST - 12th June

  racid I agree that I live in the greatest country on the face of the earth.

  But just because we're that great country there is, doesn't mean that other countries have to bow down to us or we have the right to dictate to them how we want them to develope as a country.

  We need to bring our troops home, shut our damn mouths. < :-)

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  reddragonguy at 06:59 AM JST - 12th June

  Bush was a loser! Both battlefield, Iraq and afghanistan were humilations for the US military. A total failure nothing victory,NEVER!

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  KitsuneYoukai at 06:10 AM JST - 13th June

  So you say!!!!

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