Assets offshore hint at larger Romney wealth

World Jul. 04, 2012 - 02:25PM JST ( 46 )

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4

ExportExpertJul. 04, 2012 - 04:45PM JST

Seems he is very well suited to being a politician, lieing , cheating, hiding assets, not providing full disclosure etc, stands him in good stead to rise to the top of the political heap of scum bags.

No to Romney and his creed they are all scoundrels in disguise.
3

SerranoJul. 04, 2012 - 07:49PM JST

"he could be wealthier"

Good for him! I mean, another skeleton out of the closet, heh heh
2

MadvertsJul. 04, 2012 - 08:11PM JST

"I mean, another skeleton out of the closet"

Coming out of the closet hasn't been the easiest for the repubs in recent times.....more like dragged out. At least Romney is just a hypocrite with his wealth apparently, rather than his sexuality.
-4

SerranoJul. 04, 2012 - 08:29PM JST

Does Romney actually know how to make anything, or just buy and sell stuff?
But even if he just knows how to buy and sell stuff, that's still more than what Barack Obama knows, lol.
1

LagunaJul. 04, 2012 - 08:30PM JST

... including one that recently posted a $1.9 million earning _ suggesting he could be wealthier than the nearly $250 million estimated by his campaign.

Pfft - that $1.9 million is less than 1% of his assets. In JT terms, it's like the 500 yen coin under the sofa.

It's that "including" qualifier that is intriguing....
0

TheQuestionJul. 04, 2012 - 08:36PM JST

This old chestnut again? He's rich, he's filthy stinking rich, I get it. He has a lot of money and your average American doesn't understand how finance works so politicians can spin it to make wealth acquisition look dirty, it's not. I've worked at audit firms that do the same exact thing. In order to maintain independance I had to dump a couple hundred shares of Huntington Bank so I sold them to my brothers trust with a contract to not seek a buyback for a number of years beyond when the audit I was working on would have economic impact, the oversight board I was working under at the time was cool with it.
6

MadvertsJul. 04, 2012 - 09:39PM JST

The Q,

Respectfully, as millions of Americans are suffering the brunt of the economic crisis, I don't think it's a plus for the Romney campaign to be found once again hiding your massive wealth from the US tax-man, whatever loop-hole you're exploiting.

A real stinking rich patriot à la Romney shouldn't be scared of donating huge amounts of his wealth to US coffers to prove how serious he is - let alone avoiding massive tax contributions through better paid consultants.

One more instance where the old, rich, white man is absolutely out of touch with America's economic reality.
2

SerranoJul. 04, 2012 - 09:56PM JST

Madverts - I betcha Romney would bet you $10,000 you're wrong.
3

bruinfanJul. 04, 2012 - 09:56PM JST

The problem may be how did he acquire his wealth? Did he doing it creating jobs or reducing them...
-4

sailwindJul. 04, 2012 - 10:20PM JST

A real stinking rich patriot à la Romney shouldn't be scared of donating huge amounts of his wealth to US coffers to prove how serious he is

He donates his wealth and it's pretty impressive actually.

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney donated $7 million to charity in the past two years, more than the $6.2 million the candidate and his wife paid in federal taxes in that period, documents the campaign released show.

Still, the large amount of cash donations reflects that Romney wasn’t engaged in an aggressive strategy to use charitable contributions to lower his taxes, said Miranda Fleischer, an associate professor of taxation at the University of Colorado Law School.

“In 2011, about 75 percent of what he gave was in cash and that’s not necessarily the most tax-advantageous method,” she said.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-01/romney-tax-returns-show-7-million-in-donations-over-2-years.html#p1
-3

sailwindJul. 04, 2012 - 10:47PM JST

let alone avoiding massive tax contributions through better paid consultants.

Did a little basic math. He paid 6.2 million in federal taxes over a two year period. That's 730 days.

6,200,000 / 730 = 8493

He paid 8493 dollars in Federal taxes every single day including holidays and weekends. I think he pays more than enough of his fair share in taxes to the U.S treasury.
1

MadvertsJul. 04, 2012 - 11:22PM JST

"Madverts - I betcha Romney would bet you $10,000 you're wrong."

Heck Serrano, he could certainly afford to buy me out.

But I wouldn't trust him not to use it against me, seize and strip all assets at a later date.
0

MadvertsJul. 04, 2012 - 11:28PM JST

Sail,

What he gave away was peanuts to him, and probably a tax write-off to boot with some well-paid, intricate fiddle.
-3

state broken peopleJul. 04, 2012 - 11:35PM JST

john kerry, in 2004, running against the hated george booosh, was worth at least as much as romney - not that any of us here expect consistency from posters like adverts or laguna...

the US borrows 4 billion a day. but yeah,it is dear leader obama's rival whose finances need review.
-3

state broken peopleJul. 04, 2012 - 11:47PM JST

A real stinking rich patriot à la Romney shouldn't be scared of donating huge amounts of his wealth to US coffers to prove how serious he is - let alone avoiding massive tax contributions through better paid consultants.

obama could seize romney's entire fortune.

what sort of dent would it make in the 76 billion dollars in food stamps alone that the federal gubmint paid out in 2011?

45 million people in obama's America are on food stamps.

do the math.
0

MadvertsJul. 04, 2012 - 11:53PM JST

Kerry....Boooosh.....food stamps.....marxists.....OBAMA!

What else can I say but you're going to have to accept the article is about Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney, and his continued reluctance to be transparent about his offshore affairs?
0

SuperLibJul. 05, 2012 - 12:35AM JST

Nothing illegal, this is going to be a pretty big hit to Romney. There's already a growing cry about companies sending money overseas and he basically looks like he's one of them. Not a good image to project given the current climate. And what's he supposed to say? Pay your taxes....because someone has to make up for the financial instruments I manipulated so I can pay less...

Or maybe that's just another dream the Republicans can sell to the average Joe. Join our party and maybe one day you can be the one with offshore accounts.....just work hard and you'll get there.
0

T-MackJul. 05, 2012 - 03:00AM JST

Picture this guy President of the United States of America! He has wealth! What does he want with power? It look's like where in for another four years of economic misery, and unemployment despair.......
-2

ZandarJul. 05, 2012 - 06:34AM JST

People just don't get this. He has done nothing wrong. He has paid his taxes on this. You can't hide personal money outside the US because you are required to declare it. In this case, he did not. If you put it into a trust then it no longer is personal money. This is totally legal. However, once you use any of it for personal use it is now considered personal wealth and it taxable. This all took place many years ago and his current statements are all inclusive of this money. It is squeaky clean. Is he rich? Yes. Is this legal? Yes. Is it ethical? Yes. Do the poor not understand and expect to get something for nothing? Yes, in some cases. Is this even news worthy? No. It is similar to seeing a flattened remains of rotted carcass on the side of the road. All the news happened a long time ago.
-1

ZandarJul. 05, 2012 - 06:46AM JST

The point is, Romney did everything in accordance with US law. This is not an ethical question either because it is his personal money which was moved into a trust. He declared this income as required when required. The fact is the liberal media wants to make a big deal about this now even though there is nothing noteworthy. There is nothing requiring any individual to disclose to the public information about personal wealth. In the case of presidential candidates it is more of a courtesy to the people but it is not required. Of course, if you don't disclose everyone things you are hiding something.
0

TheQuestionJul. 05, 2012 - 09:12AM JST

Respectfully, as millions of Americans are suffering the brunt of the economic crisis, I don't think it's a plus for the Romney campaign to be found once again hiding your massive wealth from the US tax-man, whatever loop-hole you're exploiting.

It wasn't really being hidden. Its an ordinary distinction between personal assets and those held by a trust. I'm not saying your everyday person is going to be able to see the difference but as someone that can see the transaction for what it is it's really not that sinister. Heck, theres a list of his investments that are a lot more irksome than this one and even those are small fish compared to most of the stuff I see on corporate accounts.

It's also not a loophole, the trust generally gets taxed as a seperate entity and the disbursements it makes also get taxed. Even if it is offshore it still gets taxed, it's just another political bid. It'll work but its just politicians playing on the ignorance of the American population.
0

sailwindJul. 05, 2012 - 09:34AM JST

“Without knowing more about an offshore’s history and how it was used,” Fleischer said, “you’re left in the dark.”

A typical A.P biased hit piece dressed up as some sort of new revelation of unsavory dealings and hidden wealth by Romney to boost the narrative. This was actually throughly investigated by the L.A Times in 2007. It is nothing at all what is potrayed in this article.

While in private business, Mitt Romney utilized shell companies in two offshore tax havens to help eligible investors avoid paying U.S. taxes, federal and state records show. Romney gained no personal tax benefit from the legal operations in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands.

But aides to the Republican presidential hopeful and former colleagues acknowledged that the tax-friendly jurisdictions helped attract billions of additional investment dollars to Romney’s former company, Bain Capital, and thus boosted profits for Romney and his partners.

The arrangement shields foreign investors from U.S. taxes they would pay for investing in U.S. companies.

Investing through what’s known as a blocker corporation in Bermuda protects tax-exempt American institutions, such as pension plans, hospitals and university endowments, from paying a 35% tax on what the Internal Revenue Service calls “unrelated business income” from domestic hedge funds that invest in debt, experts say. …Brad Malt, who controls Romney’s financial trust, said Bain Capital organized the Cayman fund to attract money from foreign institutional investors. “This is not Mitt trying to do something strange,” he said. “This is Bain trying to raise some number of billions from investors around the world.”

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-na-mittoffshore17dec17,0,2757442,full.story
0

Elbuda MexicanoJul. 05, 2012 - 10:00AM JST

Wow! I have been saying this all along, this filthy rich, rehearsed smiling Mitt Romney, hah! Must be hiding so much $$$$ that it will make all of our JT heads spin, kind of like a tramp cougar after messing around with a young, wild buck! So all of this $$$$ that we do know about could only be the TIP OF THE ICEBERG?? and if OFF SHORE non US tax paying hole in the wall islands?? Boy oh boy, I can not wait to hear the BS spin fat slob Rush Limbaugh will try to spoon feed his propaganda to his ditto heads!
-2

Tiger_In_The_HermitageJul. 05, 2012 - 12:15PM JST

When one has the riches of the world, often the next desire is for power!
-1

Herve Nmn L'EisaJul. 05, 2012 - 12:54PM JST

Zandar laid out the plain facts, and it's not a new revelation. Mitt dotted the i's and crossed the t's. At least he's good with money.

That said, he's pro big-government and statism(just like both parties) and that is why I dislike him. I don't give a hoot about his money;it's HIS, not yours, mine, nor ours.
-1

lostrune2Jul. 05, 2012 - 01:15PM JST

Remember how rich Obama was compared to McCain!
0

sailwindJul. 05, 2012 - 01:57PM JST

From January 9th 2012;

I’m not a big fan of Mitt Romney.............

But I also believe in being intellectually honest, so I’ll defend a politician I don’t like (even Obama) when they do the right thing or when they get attacked for the wrong reason.

In this post, I want to focus on the issue of tax havens.

Regular readers know that I’m a big defender of these low-tax jurisdictions, for both moral and economic reasons, and I guess that reporters must know that as well because I’ve received a couple of calls from the press in recent weeks. But I suspect I”m not being called because reporters want to understand international tax policy. Instead, based on the questions, it appears that the establishment media wants to hit Romney for utilizing tax havens as part of his work at Bain Capital.

As far as I can tell, none of these reporters have come out with a story. And I’m also not aware that any of Romney’s political rivals have tried to exploit the issue.

But I think it’s just a matter of time, so I want to preemptively address this issue. So let’s go back to 2007 and look at some excerpts from a story in the Los Angeles Times about the use of so-called tax havens by Romney and Bain Capital..............

(I've posted the relevant link and excepts from the 2007 L.A times article previously on this thread)

Last but not least, here’s a prediction. I think it’s just a matter of time until Romney gets attacked for utilizing tax havens, though the press may wait until after he gets the GOP nomination.

But when those attacks occur, I’m extremely confident that the stories will fail to mention that prominent Democrats routinely utilize tax havens for business and investment purposes, including as Bill Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Robert Rubin, Peter Orszag, and Richard Blumenthal.

It’s almost enough to make you think this cartoon is correct and that the establishment press is biased.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head and how it will be actually spun and reported in the Media.

http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-were-right-to-utilitize-so-called-tax-havens/
0

zurcroniumJul. 05, 2012 - 02:19PM JST

Sailwing, Romney gives to his church, as it required by his church. Its not charity, its tithing. Very different thing. Romney gives very little given his massive wealth, a lot of it hidden to avoid paying taxes, to charity.

Remember how rich Obama was compared to McCain!

This is amazing. McCain is married to the woman who owns the Arizona beer distribution business for Budweiser. They are super, super wealthy. So wealthy that McCain could not remember how many homes they own. So the above is as many rightwing "facts" are, totally wrong. McCain's networth is about $40 million, Obama is about $5 million. Look it up. Another fox news fact that is 100% wrong.
0

sailwindJul. 05, 2012 - 02:48PM JST

Romney gives very little given his massive wealth, a lot of it hidden to avoid paying taxes, to charity.

He gave over 2 million dollars the past two years to other causes beside his tithe to the Church.

Part of the reason for the high rate of giving is Romney’s contributions to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormon church. According to the church, members are expected to tithe 10 percent of their income. In Romney’s case, in 2010 he gave $1.5 million, closer to 7 percent of his adjusted gross income. In 2011, he gave $2.6 million, or 12.4 percent of his income.

But Romney and his wife also gave a considerable amount of money – some $1.5 million in 2010 and $500,000 in 2011 – to other charities, mainly through the Tyler Charitable Foundation, apparently named for a street Romney and his wife lived on in Belmont, Mass. In 2010, the foundation had more than $10 million in assets.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0124/Mitt-Romney-taxes-show-very-high-charitable-giving-tied-to-Mormon-church
-1

MadvertsJul. 05, 2012 - 03:19PM JST

"According to the church, members are expected to tithe 10 percent of their income."

Tithing indeed.......tht's a business savvy sect Romney belongs too, I'll bet the LDC pay no taxes on those massive sums of revenue either. It'll be an elitist branch of the sect too, imagine how many tax-free billions are being funnelled in from other members of the elite like Mr Romney. Non-profit organizations are always good fiddles.

Romney might have the teeth and the hair to look right on campaign ads, but those of you holding your noses and cheering him on through partisan obsession should really think about what and who this man really stands for.
0

sailwindJul. 05, 2012 - 03:28PM JST

Tithing indeed.......tht's a business savvy sect Romney belongs too, I'll bet the LDC pay no taxes on those massive sums of revenue either.

Might as lump them in with all the others that receive the most in charitable contributions from all Americans.

Faith-based charities, including churches, received the most charitable gifts in 2010, capturing $100.63 billion – 35 percent of total contributions in 2010. Religious groups received more than a third of all contributions in the U.S. Faith-based donations increased 0.8 percent from the previous year.

http://www.nps.gov/partnerships/fundraisingindividualsstatistics.htm
-1

MadvertsJul. 05, 2012 - 03:40PM JST

An outrage "God" pays no tax, and that people still believe in that organized twaddle enough to hand over wads of hard-earned cash. The biggest scam ever, period.

I have a hard time in believing you when you state "I’m not a big fan of Mitt Romney.............".

Why average Joe's will defend the uber-rich's right to pay less tax is beyond me. Superlib nails it with "maybe that's just another dream the Republicans can sell to the average Joe. Join our party and maybe one day you can be the one with offshore accounts.....just work hard and you'll get there."

Arbeit macht frei for Republicans.
0

sailwindJul. 05, 2012 - 03:52PM JST

I have a hard time in believing you when you state "I’m not a big fan of Mitt Romney.............".

Madverts,

Just for clarity those aren't my words, they are from the article that I'd linked to at the bottom. They are Mr. Mitchell's words. Apologies if I didn't make that clear at first.

An outrage "God" pays no tax, and that people still believe in that organized twaddle enough to hand over wads of hard-earned cash. The biggest scam ever, period.

Pass that on to Obama.

Senator Barack Obama and his wife, Michelle, sharply increased their charitable donations as Mr. Obama began to run for president and the family’s income increased from book sales, according to tax returns that the couple released on Tuesday.

Some of the largest donations went to the Trinity United Church of Christ, whose pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., has been in the news for inflammatory messages in his sermons, causing Mr. Obama to distance himself from Mr. Wright, his former spiritual mentor.

All told, the couple gave $27,500 to the church in 2005 and 2006

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/us/politics/26taxes.html
0

MadvertsJul. 05, 2012 - 04:08PM JST

Heh, I was talking about the church racket in general Sail, but at least you found an angle to bring up not only Obama, but also the nutty Reverend - a double whammy! Heh, despite the topic being Mitt Romney and his continued reluctance to be transparent about his offshore affairs....
0

sailwindJul. 05, 2012 - 10:01PM JST

Heh, I was talking about the church racket in general Sail, but at least you found an angle to bring up not only Obama, but also the nutty Reverend - a double whammy!

I believe the saying is "Charity begins at home".
-2

SerranoJul. 05, 2012 - 10:24PM JST

George Clooney had better get with the program and start organizing more fund raisers for Obama, or Mitt's going to end up outspending him, and we can't have that!
-1

MadvertsJul. 05, 2012 - 10:35PM JST

Mitt should worry more about the adverse effect of being shy disclosing details of his offshore accounts, again.
0

sailwindJul. 05, 2012 - 11:09PM JST

Mitt should worry more about the adverse effect of being shy disclosing details of his offshore accounts, again.

This was beaten to death in 2007 Madverts, how much "disclosure: do you want?

While in private business, Mitt Romney utilized shell companies in two offshore tax havens to help eligible investors avoid paying U.S. taxes, federal and state records show. Romney gained no personal tax benefit from the legal operations in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-na-mittoffshore17dec17,0,2757442,full.story
0

sailwindJul. 05, 2012 - 11:18PM JST

I do have to point this out.

This 2012 article leads with:

For nearly 15 years, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s financial portfolio has included an offshore company that remained invisible to voters as his political star rose.

Based in Bermuda, Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors Ltd. was not listed on any of Romney’s state or federal financial reports.:

From the 2007 article in the L.A Times:

In Bermuda, Romney served as president and sole shareholder for four years of Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors Ltd. It funneled money into Bain Capital's Sankaty family of hedge funds, which invest in bonds and other debt issued by corporations, as well as bank loans.

According to the A.P......This was an invisible offshore company for 15 years as his political star rose........Just that was in all the 2007 newspapers at the time.
1

sailwindJul. 05, 2012 - 11:23PM JST

Based in Bermuda, Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors Ltd. was not listed on any of Romney’s state or federal financial reports.:

Forgot this part......

From the 2007 article.

While in private business, Mitt Romney utilized shell companies in two offshore tax havens to help eligible investors avoid paying U.S. taxes, federal and state records show.

What financial reports or records is the A.P referring to?
0

MadvertsJul. 05, 2012 - 11:26PM JST

Sailwind,

"have not been fully disclosed" are the key words up there.
1

JTDanManJul. 06, 2012 - 02:21AM JST

Mitt has not fully-disclosed his tax returns.

Hmmm.
0

^_^Jul. 07, 2012 - 03:28AM JST

Mitt has not fully-disclosed his tax returns.

I'm sure Romney has a perfectly legitimate reason for not disclosing his tax return. His dressage horse ate his homework... Um...Oh yeah, here's a good one. SHRillaray Clinton told him he didn't have to do it.

The point is, there will be a lot of excuses and no matter how pathetically lame they are, there are going to be idiots nodding like bobble heads, thinking that Mitt is going to pluck them personally out of the mire and present the keys to the executive washroom. That's what he did with the Bush tax cuts, right? NO? Well, I'm sure the NEXT time we give him a big tax break, he'll make jobs for sure. And if he doesn't, it's not that he lied, he just didn't get a big enough tax cut to make any jobs in America. You know, Romney is the victim here!
0

MolenirJul. 07, 2012 - 06:19AM JST

Sorry, already yawning from reading this boring, and pointless article. Its obviously designed to smear Romney for being rich, and failing to pay taxes. Even as it says, everything is legal, and that he paid his taxes. Meh, who cares.

Shall we return to talking about Obamas promises of 5% unemployment if we pass his stimulus? What is it now? Oh yeah, 8.2% if you don't include everyone who has given up looking for work...
0

sailwindJul. 07, 2012 - 05:34PM JST

Mitt has not fully-disclosed his tax returns.

Umm-He has actually.

Romney released his returns — nearly 550 pages, including the 2010 returns for three family trust funds and a foundation — late Monday to The Washington Post.

His 2010 returns show he made $12.6 million in capital gains, $4.9 million in ordinary dividends and $3.3 million in taxable interest.

His 2010 tax return alone runs to 203 pages, crammed with information about foreign holdings, contributions to family trusts — and even a Swiss bank account.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2017316651.html
0

LagunaJul. 07, 2012 - 08:43PM JST

Mitt Romney owns an individual retirement account worth as much as $101 million.

That amount is astoundingly high, given that employer/employee joint contributions are capped at about $30,000 a year.

It appears that Romney has made use of a loophole which allows a contribution to an IRA of investments of undetermined value - and if they later exceed that $30,000 cap, well, lucky you! Thus, Romney was able to set up shell companies of "undetermined value," incorporate them into his IRA, and then determine their value as he felt fit.

Good for him for finding this loophole! He has been doing what capitalists should do, which is to maximize profit - in this case with the beneficiary being himself. It does not matter if the "spirit" of the law has been broken - that IRAs were set up so that people in their peak earning years could set aside retirement funds that could be taxed at the lower income of their retirement years, and that such a ridiculously large amount goes way beyond what is required for this purpose - no, the point is, if a loophole exists to enlarge your profit, and if you or those you employ are able to identify it, take it.

He'll pay the taxes on that income eventually, as required by law - though at a lower rate, as he'll be retired and earning nothing else. He will, as he has always stated, adhere firmly to the laws as they are written. Also, in doing so, he will avoid as much as possible contributing to the United States. Good for him. He is a businessman, and a Republican.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/24/us-usa-campaign-romney-ira-idUSTRE80N04E20120124