At least 5 die in shootings on bloody Chicago day

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  • -6

    gaijinfo

    How can this be? Chicago has the toughest gun control laws in the United States!

    I thought all you had to do was outlaw guns, and crime would magically disappear?

  • 2

    SuperLib

    How can this be?

    Because we live in a country with hundreds of millions of guns and the "freedom" to live without much restriction?

    Nah.

    Think of the good side. When the government takes over, Chicago will be the last to fall.

  • 4

    Surf O'Holic

    Gang or drug-related most likely. Gangstas and criminals don't give a rap about laws.

    Until 2005, Chicago had about 900 per year. 2012 was an increase up to 500.

  • 2

    couversaka

    Chicagoans should be ashamed of themselves. Why do they tolerate this? Why are they too lazy to demand change?

  • 0

    sailwind

    Looks like the Media finally noticed that Chicago has a major gun problem and wants to use it now to push gun banning. Now if it can only get around to reporting that:

    “a majority of both homicide victims and offenders are young black men with criminal records. With one exception, African-Americans have made up more than 70 percent of homicide victims in Chicago every year for the last two decades.”

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-12/news/ct-met-chicago-homicide-demographics-201207121homicide-victims-homicide-numbers-police-data

    To bad that they don't want to focus on hat the real problem here is instead. To many people I believe fear being smeared as a 'racisssst' if they point this out.

  • 1

    Elbuda Mexicano

    It is not racist to point out the Blacks are shooting each other up, this is just a fact, but the NRA is racist. Do the rich white folk cry, or lose sleep when they remember how many young Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Poor Whites kill each other with their pretty shiny NRA guns?? Nah! They are having big lavish parties, laughing their heads off all the way to the BANK! Why?? The NRA only cares about $$$$, so keep on thinking that the NRA actually cares about your RIGHTS?? Keep on dreaming! More like they only want to protect their own RIGHT to make $$$ hand over fist from all the fools who want to keep killing others, prime example Chicago. RIP??

  • 1

    Surf O'Holic

    @elbuda

    " …but the NRA is racist."

    Sorry, amigo, but sounds like it's you who's playing the race card.

    Chicago's gun violence would be drastically reduced if the war on drugs were ended and all drugs legalized, like after alcohol Prohibition was ended. That would put a huge dent in the turf wars between gangstas. Martial law in Chicago would be effective at curbing crime. Pretty sure people would not accept that, though, would they?

  • -2

    warallthetime

    @Elbuda Mexicano The NRA isn't a gun manufacturer. They don't make money from the mere sale of guns. How can you be so misinformed so often?

  • -3

    whosthetyrant

    A good example of what happens when you ban guns. Only the lawless evil people have them and then they can do anything they want and there is NO protection for law abiding people. Police cannot protect you, they only come after and clean up the mess. DEMAND your rights to protect yourselves in savage america

  • 3

    sailwind

    Chicago's gun violence would be drastically reduced if the war on drugs were ended and all drugs legalized, like after alcohol Prohibition was ended.

    I've been following that line of thought the past year or so, Noah Smith wrote a piece in the Atlantic about this and summed it the best in my opinion and he makes a pretty compelling case for this approach. Worth the read if someone is interested. I see some merits in the position, but I don't really subscribe to it. I don't think encouraging drug use through legalization is going to really benefit society in the long run. Drug users already tend to be the least productive members of society as it is and I don't think we need to add more of them by making it legal, just a personal opinion.

    The Single Best Anti-Gun-Death Policy? Ending the Drug War

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/12/the-single-best-anti-gun-death-policy-ending-the-drug-war/266505/

    For myself, I see the actual deep down root cause is in the destruction of the two parent family that has been happening over the years, especially in the African American community as the cause. Absent fathers, single mothers doing the best they can but just aren't able to provide the positive role model young men need to keep them straight. Gang leaders filling that void instead as to what a man should be like.

    Not really sure as to what would be the best approach to get back to strong two parent families, but study after study shows that crime and poverty are both so much higher in the single parent homes.

  • -1

    smithinjapan

    Nah, nothing to do with guns -- whoever shot and killed all these people could have done the same thing with a squeeze toy or some liquid ink.

    Anyway, wow... since all the way back to 2008??? Probably only the 6th time the record has been eclipsed since 2000, too!

  • 0

    timtak

    I agree that the destruction of the family is also to blame. Race is an issue. But gender is an issue to.

    All of the victims are male. There is a very high chances that all the killers are male.

    Every time I see a Youtube video of a person espousing gun rights I feel a connection between the always (99%?) male speaker and his machismo. Deep be-muscled voices say things like, "You have to be ready," "Owning a gun requires you take responsibility," "You must train yourself, always be training yourself." Etc. The gun seems to have a sort of character building, self-defining, strength and identity issue type meaning to their owners.

    Perhaps having a gun is part of being a man in the US, as responsible life and death deciding agent. Take away the gun and the US man may feel emasculated. The family system in the US did not create itself overnight. It has a long enough history of involving gun holding men who protect their families with guns.

    US men have made compromises in other areas. Many take out the rubbish from time to time. Wash the dishes too likewise. Come home to listen to their wives' concerns, and above all be an active fathers on top of their role as larger-part financial providers. US men are not simply wage earners ("salary-men") they are in that sense, comparatively, super men. Perhaps they need their guns to feel, in spite of all the compromises that they have made, manly, male. This manliness or its lack will relate to how effectively they can relate to, and achieve a lasting compromise with their partners.

    So perhaps American men need their guns to prevent the destruction of the US family?

  • -4

    Kent Mcgraw

    The fact is that there are strict gun control laws in Chicago, stricter than any other city except Washington DC, the only city with higher gun violence than Chicago is Washington DC. The safest place to live is where there is no gun control and people are civil and have moral values. The schools take away moral values by teaching that there is no God. Chicago, the city with the most gun control has the most violence. people need to wake up and see that gun control was made to disarm the law abiding not those who break the law.

    P.S. I do not care if anyone likes this because I do not live by whether people like what I say.

  • -2

    smithinjapan

    sailwind: "For myself, I see the actual deep down root cause is in the destruction of the two parent family that has been happening over the years, especially in the African American community as the cause."

    As with nuclear power, the nuclear family was not as stable as we were meant to think it was. A two-parent family where the relationship is bad can be FAR worse than any single parent family out there. If it were just a matter of single-parent families, think of the fact that 50% of marriages in the US end in divorce, sail. Sure, not all of those marriages result in children in the mix, but many if not most do, and there would be FAR more rampages and massacres if it were that simple. I mean, Harris and Klebold (Columbine) both came from two-parent households, right? and Klebold's family were even church-going Lutherans.

    Not sure about crime, but poverty is bound to be more common in single-parent households merely by virtue of the fact that if there is any income it is at best half of what it could be unless the single parent is for some reason well off. And of course poverty has a causal link to crime, but again I doubt all the shootings going on are the result of the breakdown of the somewhat traditional nuclear family, and two-parent households should never be forced to continue as such when they are not working.

  • 3

    sailwind

    If it were just a matter of single-parent families, think of the fact that 50% of marriages in the US end in divorce, sail.

    From HUD the U.S Government agency pretty much in charge of providing housing and caring for the poor.

    Nearly 2 in 3 African-American children live in father-absent homes.

    Children who live absent their biological fathers are, on average, at least two to three times more likely to be poor, to use drugs, to experience educational, health, emotional and behavioral problems, to be victims of child abuse, and to engage in criminal behavior than their peers who live with their married, biological (or adoptive) parents.

    http://www.juvenilecouncil.gov/materials/2012_05/Father%27s%20Day%20Fact%20Sheet%20HUD.pdf

    Believe I do also understand that in pointing this out as a Conservative it opens me up to usual charges of being a sexist and an active participate in the war on women, and that I have 1950's social values and I wish to bring God and the Church back into peoples lives. But facts are facts and single parenting when it comes to crime is a huge factor and it shouldn't be ignored or not discussed if one really wants to improve things instead of just building more jails in the future.

  • -4

    Kent Mcgraw

    Smithin japan, all of the families were Obama supporting democrats. Where do we draw the conclusions? There are many factors. We can say that all were from two parent families but all were registered democrats. Are all two parent families democrats? It is also very well known that all mass murderers are democrats in the USA. We can not find logic in any type of grouping people. Personally I think all liberals are insane and can't see the truth but that does not mean that I do not respect a different viewpoint. The fact is that when the socialistic people began to take over and remove God from everything, the problems began and the socialistic party is the democrat party in America. Do not jump to conclusions about things you have no knowledge of.

  • -1

    badsey3

    The male argument for this doesn't make sense because Chicago has a ban on guns. Also if you look at the times of these shootings (2am+) most can surmise it is mostly the criminals that are out or honest people getting caught up in a criminals (Chicago gun holder's) path. =Most people in these areas (not all of the Chicago metro area) are locking themselves up and not going out due to the criminals with guns being out.

    -still Chicago refuses to do anything about it and most likely want this sort of violence to spread to the other areas. It really is a sad state of politics.

  • 0

    Alphaape

    The Single Best Anti-Gun-Death Policy? Ending the Drug War

    This will not stop the gun violence, only make it worse. Guns are used in crimes for people to steal and get money and objects to buy drugs. Leagliaze drugs, and you may take out the criminal element selling it, but it still needs to be sold. Most drug users are generally not the type of people that hold down steady jobs and may a paycheck. So if you legalize drugs, they will still need a way to get money to buy them from legitimate sources. So where do they get it? Try robbing and stealing, using their guns to rob people and places, and the cycle goes on and on.

    The majority of the people doing these shootings aren't allowed to own guns legally with the current laws in place. So just putting a ban on them will only leave those who want to defend their property at a disadvantage against someone who doesn't regard laws in the first place.

  • 0

    Alphaape

    Do the rich white folk cry, or lose sleep when they remember how many young Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Poor Whites kill each other with their pretty shiny NRA guns?? Nah! They are having big lavish parties, laughing their heads off all the way to the BANK!

    @ Elbuda: I hate to point this out to you, but Chicago is a Democratic run city. That is why they ahve those very tough gun laws in place. The net result, those whites who live in certain areas of the city have safer neighborhoods, but the so called "little people" that the Dems are supposedly standing for are living in jungle where the rule of law doesn't seem to exist. If these killings had happened around Northwestern Univ, then there will be an outcry, not only from the NRA, but those so called "rich white folks" who now will become worried.

    Racism has nothing to do with the NRA and gun control in this case. I have yet to see an NRA ad saying that guns are needed to beat back the "mongrel hordes." And if there was one, don't you think the media with it's slant towards baning all guns would have that type of ad on every news and media outlet? What they (the media) will not do is say that gun control the way it is done in Chicago is not working,and a lot of politicans need to answer why so much money has been poured into Federal and State programs to help out the poor neighborhoods, and yet we still see high crime and continued poverty in these areas leading to these crimes.

  • 1

    SuperLib

    Alphaape: The majority of the people doing these shootings aren't allowed to own guns legally with the current laws in place. So just putting a ban on them will only leave those who want to defend their property at a disadvantage against someone who doesn't regard laws in the first place.

    Being against a ban is only a small part of the situation, especially since we know a ban won't happen anytime soon. The fact is that the NRA and other groups are against any kind of legislation or regulation to gun sales and gun ownership. Even common sense items like universal background checks or gun shop inventory are nonstarters for them. I can't help but think that it adds to the ease at which a criminal can get a gun.

  • 0

    mnmsx95295929

    I apologize for posting like an idiot.

  • 0

    Alphaape

    Even common sense items like universal background checks or gun shop inventory are nonstarters for them. I can't help but think that it adds to the ease at which a criminal can get a gun.

    @ Superlib: You can't sell guns to people who have a criminal record, that is the law now. By looking at your reasoning, you must agree that this must be the case, because you bring up the point that if a gunshop does an inventory, and guns are missing, either they sold guns and didn't account for them, which is a problem, or they were stolen. As I have stated, if they are stolen, they were took by people who don't care about gun laws anyway, since they are stealing them. So what good will that do. Criminals will steal, and they do steal guns. So you want to just do away with all guns so that they will not have any to steal?

  • -2

    cleo

    So you want to just do away with all guns so that they will not have any to steal?

    At last, someone speaking sense. Yes, if the country isn't awash with guns that criminals can easily get their hands on by stealing or borrowing from a 'law-abiding legal gun-owner', then criminals will not have guns. It will be a long, hard job to clean up a whole country. Soonest started, soonest finished.

  • 0

    sailwind

    It will be a long, hard job to clean up a whole country.

    Going to be especially difficult with that pesky 2nd amendment standing firmly in the way and no realistic prospects that its going to get repealed anytime soon.

  • 0

    Surf O'Holic

    The inner-city gangsta violence is not very unlike the mafia family infighting except that even mafia have rules. As anyone knows, mafia-types don't exactly have high regard for laws, except their own. Neither do the gang-bangers. Early release of violent criminals exasperates the inner-city violence.

    The war on drugs has greatly contributed to the ills of inner-city life. It's like a death spiral. When enforcement of the new drug prohibition laws began, mostly minority (black men) people were targeted and prosecuted. As more became felons, unemployability rose and other crimes increased. That also led to increasing single-parent families and absentee fathers which also led to rising school drop-outs, increasing illiteracy, and more youth crime.

    What a mess.

  • 0

    Alphaape

    Yes, if the country isn't awash with guns that criminals can easily get their hands on by stealing or borrowing from a 'law-abiding legal gun-owner', then criminals will not have guns.

    @ cleo: Mexico has very strict gun laws, and look at the violence that goes on down there. My point was that taking away guns from people who obey the laws and don't go shooting up people are not the problem. The people who will steal will do so with guns and other weapons. Those who did the shooting in Chicago in general don't follow the law. So why should I put myself and family in jeapordy because someone like you opposes guns?

  • -1

    cleo

    why should I put myself and family in jeapordy because someone like you opposes guns?

    If the safety of yourself and your family is your main concern, why on earth would you choose to live in a hellhole awash with guns and lunatics all too ready to use them?

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Alphaape: Mexico has very strict gun laws, and look at the violence that goes on down there

    We both know that for every country you list talking about strict gun laws and high gun violence I can list dozens of countries with strict gun laws and very little gun violence. Shrinking the map and distorting reality might work for AM radio and the NRA but the rest of us are firmly rooted in reality.

    Alphaape: You can't sell guns to people who have a criminal record, that is the law now.

    Again, this is a reality that exists on paper in the minds of gun supporters. We both know you can easily get one from a private seller or from a gun show in many states despite what the law says. Your system boils down to some kind of voluntary self-enforcement by criminals.

    As I have stated, if they are stolen, they were took by people who don't care about gun laws anyway, since they are stealing them. So what good will that do.

    So would you fight legislation that would require inventory? And obviously there is a lot of good that can come of it. If a gun shop seems to be losing quite a few guns every year then they'll have a few questions to answer. I'd support closing a shop down that can't keep control of it's product. Robbery is part of any business, but consistently losing guns over a long period of time is negligent.

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