Bali bombers warn of attacks if executed

Thursday 02nd October, 07:30 AM JST

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tkoind2 at 10:28 AM JST - 2nd October

neverknow2. You totally misread Sezwho2's message. In short, he/she is saying that having these guys later repudiate their actions would be a far more valuable tool to combat terror than a quick and over execution.

We've seen a lot of death row guys come out strong agaist the very factors that led them to become monsters. What better source for a message against terror than a former bomber who has seen the error of his ways? Think it through.

We base far too much of our concept of justice on punishment and very little on the long term benefit to society. Sure it costs money to feel and house these guys, but killing them accomplishes nothing but a reinforcment of the concept that violence is a solution to problems.

So keep them in jail, study them, learn about their thinking and hope that some of them turn over a leaf to embrace peace and help you fight terror some day. A non-violent solution to combat violence.
timorborder at 11:43 AM JST - 2nd October

Two choices - slot them or lock them up.

I get the impression that behind all the tough words, it has finally sunk in with these guys that they are about to die. As such, they are sxxxxxx themselves and are starting to push every button they know in an attempt to avoid their execution. Real big men (not). If they truly believe what they did was right, then they should shut up and take what is coming to them instead of sniveling like a dog that has been kicked.

With regard to the death penalty, etc., I am generally against it (from a legal point of view), however, I won't shed any tears over these clowns. Blowing away civilians (whether it is in Bali or Iraq, whether the perps are Muslim or Christian) is not very nice. If you are party to such acts, you have to willing to handle the retribution that follows.

Then again, dropping them in a dark hole for 15 to 20 years (for starters) with NO human contact and NO light would probably be a more severe punishment.
SuperLib at 11:46 AM JST - 2nd October

There's always a case for soft power and hard power when combating terrorism....but I'm not sure these guys are really candidates for the soft power/negotiation approach.
MichaelJP at 11:51 AM JST - 2nd October

SezWho2: You can't execute an idea.

He's right. Islam is an idea that spreads because it is so excessively violent, and literally worships murder and glorifies death to such an extent that any small scale executions would do nothing.

You really need a stronger idea to counteract this dangerous religious meme.
WilliB at 12:14 PM JST - 2nd October

While the Indonesian constitution is secular, the government is increaslingly dominated by muslims, so it is a safe bet these murderers will be allowed to live. If they had been Christians or Hindus, there would be no such hesitation.
tmarie at 12:42 PM JST - 2nd October

Lock them up for life and charge their families and place of worship for their fees.
tclh at 01:08 PM JST - 2nd October

These mad dogs show no remorse, no regret whatsoever till the very end! I agree that death penalty is no good, because it is TOO GOOD for them. Give them to victims's families and forget about it.
tkoind2 at 01:17 PM JST - 2nd October

MichaelJP. Are you for real mate? Just where did you get your information about Islam? And could you be any more wrong about the general belief system.

Look if you look at history you can just as easily say that Christianity is a blood thirsty faith of zelot maniacs. Look at the crusades, witch burnings and how many hundreds of years of the Spanish Inquisition for examples. Not to mention suicidal cults and clinic blowing up nut cases in the South.

I am not relgious. But I support the religious freedom of others. Islam is not a faith of violence or of murder. It is very much just like Judaism and Christiantiy as it is largely cut off the same vine. 99% of the people who follow it are peaceful, intelligent and cultured people. Only a small group of maniacs live this Jhihadi approach.

So if we listen to your position, we can then judge all religions by a hand full of nut cases. So Jim Jones can be our poster child for Christianity etc...

Open your mind and learn about Islam or you buy into propaganda that wants you to hate and fear just as much as those Jhihadi maniacs hate and fear you.
SezWho2 at 01:53 PM JST - 2nd October

Pivot,

The question of who pays is a good one. I think, however, it needs to be given a more comprehensive view. Who pays for what and when?

Execution has two costs--a known one and an unknown one. Those who favor execution generally believe that the unknown costs are actually a benefit which outweighs the known costs by reducing future crime. And even if it does not, the psychic value of "seeing justice done" more than tips the scales in favor of execution. They also tend to believe that the known cost, if done swiftly and not drawn out through a system of appeals, is less than the cost of lifetime maintenance so that from a dollars-only point of view execution makes sense.

Those who oppose tend to believe that there is a high probability that the unknown cost of execution is exceptionally large and that the risks of execution outweigh the lower probabilities of finding any system of justice which will deter the type of crime in question. They may also believe that it is "morally wrong" but that is of the ilk of "seeing justice done" and is worth no more or less. They also tend to suggest that lifetime incarceration is actually cheaper than an appeals process which adequately guards against mistaken convictions.

I am not opposed to capital punishment in all cases. However, I think that the standard of conviction needs to be guilty beyond any doubt, not just beyond reasonable doubt. And confessions alone do not provide that certainty as they can be obtained by coercion or suggestion.

My point here is that capital punishment is not a solution to the problem of terrorism. And, if we seek a solution to the problem we must first be aware that there may be no solution and secondly be willing to explore all the assumptions that we have been using which have so far failed to solve the problem.
tkoind2 at 01:59 PM JST - 2nd October

SezWho2. Very good post!

We jumped straight to war as the solution to terror after 911. The sad point is that post 911 we had the best opportunity in our history to bring people together and to leverage outrage and sympathy from even our enemies to look at solutions to the problem. Had we had the courage to pursue that opportunity, maybe Bali would not have happened.
SezWho2 at 02:52 PM JST - 2nd October

tkoind2,

Thank you. Yes, we did jump straight to war and I thought that was a mistake. I don't know if anything could have been done to prevent Bali but I did think that to successfully combat terrorism we needed to be willing to absorb some blows.

Obviously that's an unpopular sentiment and it would be unacceptable as a campaign platform. It would not have been unacceptable, however, as a policy for someone who was prioritizing the nation over his reelection. Perhaps the President thought these were one in the same, however.

But none of that really addresses what it is that we should do with miscreant terrorists. In the current case, I actually think the worst thing that Indonesia could do would be to commute the sentences. A uniform death penalty sends a consistent message. A uniform life sentence sends a consistent message. But commuting the sentence seems to send the message that the threat of terrorism has the upper hand and I don't think that any society can afford that.
SuperLib at 05:20 PM JST - 2nd October

tkiond2: We jumped straight to war as the solution to terror after 911. The sad point is that post 911 we had the best opportunity in our history to bring people together and to leverage outrage and sympathy from even our enemies to look at solutions to the problem. Had we had the courage to pursue that opportunity, maybe Bali would not have happened.

If you were giving advice to the terrorists to end terrorism, what would it sound like?
ca1ic0cat at 08:54 PM JST - 2nd October

yeah, I agree that executions aren't going to accomplish much of anything, especially in this case. Better to let them rot than become martyrs. Plus they won't get their virgins this way.

Of course if they are executed there won't be any kidnappings to buy their release nor will they ever blow anybody else up.

Guess it's up to the Indonesians then.
WilliB at 09:18 PM JST - 2nd October

tokind2:

" I am not relgious. But I support the religious freedom of others. Islam is not a faith of violence or of murder. "

No, it is a political doctrine of submission and violence, with a religious dressing propped on top. We are deceicing ourselves by mislabelling it as a personal "religion" with no political dimension. Look at Saudi-Arabia, Yemen, and Afghanistan to see where applied Shariah gets you.
DenshaDeGO at 02:22 PM JST - 3rd October

Bombers are nothing but cowards