Bush calls for freedom of speech in China

Friday 08th August, 02:37 PM JST

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rtrhead1 at 10:44 PM JST - 8th August

where do you guys come up with this stuff? think about it. ever heard of crowd control? how would YOU guarantee the safety of your politicians without putting some sort of restrictions on where the public is allowed to gather en masse? some of you guys see shadows and your brain tells you cover up, suspension of liberties, cats and dogs living together...
northlondon at 01:21 AM JST - 9th August

Ah, that's rich coming from George W. The word hypocrisy springs to mind. Freedom of speech, as in human rights and civil liberties ? What, like those men imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay ? Bound and gagged and with only US military counsel for their defence and no trial. What a hypocrite.
HonestDictator at 01:40 AM JST - 9th August

Well, remember Northlondon, Guantanamo Bay is in Cuba which is NOT US territory. Remember, they say the RIGHT to free speech applies to Americans on American territories.

But back on topic, how many people here feel that the average Chinese citizen lacks the innovation and new ideas that many people that do not feel restricted in their thoughts and conversations because of the Chinese governments repressive actions and censorship?

Almost everyone I know says the same thing about China's people and the Chinese government. The government needs to lift up its heavy hand so their citizens can breath a lot more freely and learn to find a voice to state their ideas and thoughts. In fact it can help the government reform much better to learn their peoples concerns w/o supposedly being accused of trying to plot an overthrow/coup/civil war, and provide and determine how to better shift their finances in a much better fashion.
WhiteHawk at 01:52 AM JST - 9th August

LIBERTAS, can't you see that you're proving yourself wrong simply by continuing to express such opinions?
TomDC at 02:23 AM JST - 9th August

The debate here, the comments by President Bush, even the protest by the Chinese government -- all wonderful. A process going on. Chinese can't host Olympics without putting their domestic policies on stage. Bush can't make comments on human rights in another country without holding his own behavior up for examination. The dialogue, the give and take, brings out emotions, causes us to examine our convictions, even if we try not to betray our doubts in our written posts. (a lost cause because the strongest, most absolute, and provocative language betrays the greatest internal doubt and fear.) Talk on!
skipthesong at 08:59 AM JST - 9th August

There is no freedom of speech in America right now. Anything you say you can either get arrested or sued or a loss of a job.

Chinese can't host Olympics without putting their domestic policies on stage." Why, they are doing much better than a lot of countries that have democracies. Really, how can we judge? 90% of the Chinese, even Chinese decent, hold a high degree of loyalty to China and its government.

Maybe they are the ones that have it right and no us.
Betzee at 09:39 AM JST - 9th August

The rhetorical barbs were expected to recede quickly as the games began. White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said she did not think they would overshadow Bush’s trip at all.“We’ve had these back-and-forths with China for years,” she said.

Indeed. We've lectured the Chinese for years about liberalizing their political system and it's gone in one ear and right out the other. We had greater leverage over them in the wake of the Tiananmen Massacre than we do now. Since then, however, a large well-educated, property-owning urban middle class has appeared alongside the 800 million farmers with the equivalent of elementary school education. If the Chinese don't like their system, let them initiate changes.

Where we can push the Chinese is on their support for regimes like the Burmese junta. Of course they will point out how chummy the US has become with countries like Uzbekistan which, like Burma, enjoys abundant natural gas reserves that keep a highly repressive dictatorship in power over an impoverished citizenry that barely ekes out a subsistence-level existence.

GWB was right in 2000 when he called China a "strategic competitor." That is the shape of the future and we'd better be preparing for that rather than criticizing their lack of religious freedom.
SezWho2 at 09:52 AM JST - 9th August

Speaking on China’s turf....

I thought US embassies were American turf.
SezWho2 at 10:00 AM JST - 9th August

I've never lived in China. By all accounts Americans enjoy considerably more freedom of speech than the Chinese do, but we do not enjoy completely free speech.

For example, even without saying that you hate a president, to sincerely call for a silver bullet solution to the problems of his or her presidency would not constitute protected speech. In fact, even if the statement were true, it would be prosecutable speech. As another example, in somewhat Orwellian fashion, some speech is more free than others. Protesting the policies of this administration? To the rear, please. Move along.

If the President wants to encourage free speech that's fine. But it would be better done in the context of sitting down with Chinese leaders and talking to them about how America can help China enlarge the personal freedoms of its citizenry. He might even learn something.
Betzee at 10:14 AM JST - 9th August

SezWho,

I've lived in China and visit on a regular basis. The press has been privatized (to enable the CCP to cease subsidizing it). Newspapers are dependent on advertising revenues. Now that doesn't mean they can offer their readers unflattering takes on the government. But they do carry on policy debates of the type where "reasonable people can disagree."

Internet cafes are a dime a dozen in major cities and very cheap. They are filled with teenage boys playing war hammer type games. I've never hit a blocked site, though Falun Gong sites are certainly blocked. But the only time I've seen anyone asked to move to another site is owing to the explicitly pornographic content of whatever they are looking at.
Betzee at 10:45 AM JST - 9th August

Honestdictator,

how many people here feel that the average Chinese citizen lacks the innovation and new ideas that many people that do not feel restricted in their thoughts and conversations because of the Chinese governments repressive actions and censorship?

I don't. Or rather I think the level of Chinese "critical thinking" is on par with that of Americans. And I will quote someone from an obituary of dissident writer Alexander Solzhenitsyn on why his works have disappeared from bookshelves in his own country:

“The problem is that now, it’s all about consumption — this spirit that has engulfed everybody,...People prefer to consume everything, the simplest things, and the faster, the better. Books are something that force you to think, reading books requires some effort. But they prefer entertainment.”

That's certainly true of the US and increasingly of China too as people get richer.
rtrhead1 at 10:47 AM JST - 9th August

"There is no freedom of speech in America right now. Anything you say you can either get arrested or sued or a loss of a job." - skipthesong

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Freedom of speech does not have anything to do with getting sued, or losing a job. Freedom of speech does not protect you from any and all repercussions. Why would you think that the freedom of speech would let you say anything without consequences? It has never done that.
skipthesong at 11:42 AM JST - 9th August

Why would you think that the freedom of speech would let you say anything without consequences?" Consequences like getting punched or hit over the head are fine. When the government comes out and support legislation against words, that is a problem. To state a threat, should be enforced because it would hurt someone physically. But, if I called your mother (not yours') a b-word, she probably can sue me. If you want to talk about a certain point in history, debate it and go against the grain, you can even be imprisoned! You have teachers all the time being accused of something because something they said, and even have back up to it and they get fired.

Additionally, in the US, I and a select group can say a few things that some Anglo isn't allowed to. Yup, we have a freedom of speech and that is how we want China to be too.
rtrhead1 at 09:48 PM JST - 9th August

the gov't isn't involved with the example of mothers that you gave me. that is one person. and no, saying something like that, and then getting sued for what you said is not an infringement on freedom of speech. you are free to say it, and someone else is free to be offended.

what are you babbling about going to prison for speaking against a point in history? you are in paranoia-land if you think that is true. show me an example of where that has happened.

what sort of things do you think you can say that anglo's aren't allowed to? hmmm? if it's some stupid crap like what I hear some african-americans saying, then yes, they are allowed to say it and the anglo's aren't. but that is only because the african americans say that can't and throw a huge fit if anyone does. there is FAR, FAR, more freedom of speech in american than china. try again.
apecNetworks at 05:09 PM JST - 10th August

The worst example of freedom of speech abuse in recent history was that of former Pres. Nixon who authorized tax audits on those who disagreed w/ his policies. Also, the construction of long lists of US citizens who were monitored and harassed b/c of political dissent. These abuses were in direct conflict w/ the Bill of Rights. The PRC lacks something like the Bill of Rights, and it does distinguish the freedom and democracy defined in the US Constitution. This present Administration is not in accordance w/ the freedom and democracy defined by the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, so where is the President's definition of "freedom of speech" that is he referring to? My situation is eerily similar to what former Pres. Nixon constructed and I am not a "terrorist".