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JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Bush, Cheney honor vets in separate ceremonies

World Nov. 12, 2008 - 04:45AM JST ( 26 )

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26 Comments

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adaydreamNov. 12, 2008 - 07:29AM JST

It is utter hypocracy for dick cheney to be speaking at any ceremony for Veterans.

Five draft dodging deferments, getting kicked out the college he received the deferments for for poor grades and drinking problems and profits made from the george bush Memorial War in Iraq.

he's a coward. Only a little lower than the snake in the grass that started the war, george bush.

Thanx for serving Veterans < :-)
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MolenirNov. 12, 2008 - 08:24AM JST

Well, least hes higher on the totem pole then the guy you put in there to replace him. Be embarrassing to witness next years Veterans day ceremony.
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skipthesongNov. 12, 2008 - 08:37AM JST

Be embarrassing to witness next years Veterans day ceremony." Why? Clinton wasn't a vet, Regan and neither Nixon served in a war... and we all know about GWB. If people are going to make an issue about military service, then they should make it a requirement to have served in time of war to become president.

While I have the highest respect for anyone who was in combat (PG1, Somalia, and Bosnia), I have to squint when I hear about Obama or GWB at the time not serving because being in the military was probably the easiest job I ever had.
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MolenirNov. 12, 2008 - 08:46AM JST

No, you're right. Clinton was a much bigger joke. Reagen was in the service during WW2, making films though. Don't remember about Nixon, but others like Bush 1 did serve in combat.

Still being President means more then just whether or not you served in the Military. As the CinC, not only do your people have a duty to you, you have a duty to them. I don't think Clinton ever really understood that. I sincerely hope Obama does.
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Everton2Nov. 12, 2008 - 08:57AM JST

Being in the military does not make you more qualified to be anything other than that you have been in the Military. Some of the most effective leaders in the last century had no military experience. Please lets not go crazy on this military service and its value to run the country.
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smithinjapanNov. 12, 2008 - 08:58AM JST

"Well, least hes higher on the totem pole then the guy you put in there to replace him. Be embarrassing to witness next years Veterans day ceremony."

Molenir: There are critical differences between GWB/Cheney and Obama, aside from the former two being utter lunatics. First and foremost, GWB/Cheney both avoided going to fight for their country in Viet Nam through connections, getting stinking drunk all the time, and bombing in school, etc. After that, they claim to know all about war, with bush wanting to be known as 'the war president', and Cheney wanting to bomb the hell out of and torture anything outside the country. These two men disrespect the memories of those who served and died, as well as pi$$ on the veterans who are still alive by standing up there and laying wreaths, pretending to care about them and what they gave while Cheney and bush couldn't bother to do the same, but sent of thousands to die in vain based on lies and for profit.

Meanwhile, Obama wants to END the wars that bush started; and that is utter respect -- ending a war so that the men/women who served have not died in vain, instead of going off to fight MORE illegal wars and causing even more death.

Sorry, Molenir, but you're wrong on ALL counts.
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smithinjapanNov. 12, 2008 - 09:00AM JST

Molenir: "Reagen was in the service during WW2, making films though. Don't remember about Nixon, but others like Bush 1 did serve in combat."

Making files is not the same as 'serving' in the military any more than me peeling potatoes in Japan is helping fight terrorism in Afghanistan. Sorry, but starring alongside a monkey (which was which?) doesn't make you a soldier. Nixon did not serve. No one ever denied that Bush 1 did.
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Nippon5Nov. 12, 2008 - 09:20AM JST

Being in is being in.. be your job is slinging eggs or hand to hand combat you still served... To judge one if they actually went to war or not is foolish, a veteran is a person who served in the military not a person who was in war... I served in war my brother served in peace but we are still both veterans..... Some who didnt serve in the US military or are even part of the US seem to think they can decide who served and who didnt...

Reagan served in both reserve and active duty... GWB served in the National .. both of these men are veterans.. Maybe you dont like that they didnt see combat, but that doesnt change the fact they are veterans...

And yes I think every person in the US should serve 2 years in the military, then maybe people will understand what it means to be a veteran...
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USAFdudeNov. 12, 2008 - 09:48AM JST

smith - I gotta give this one to Nippon, dude. Every service member's job contributes to the overall whole.
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MolenirNov. 12, 2008 - 10:49AM JST

Meanwhile, Obama wants to END the wars that bush started; and that is utter respect -- ending a war so that the men/women who served have not died in vain, instead of going off to fight MORE illegal wars and causing even more death.

Dude - I get what you're saying. I do. I even agree to a certain extent. Though your constant harping on the legal/illegal argument is silly. However its not about whether or not someone served. Its the respect granted to those who volunteer to put their lives on the line defending the country. Bush made a point of visiting those he put in harms way. He made a point of seeing the consequences of his choices. He went to Iraq multiple times to see things, to talk to the troops. Visited the hospitals, talked to the wounded, and when he could attended funerals. When he couldn't he always sent a representative. To me, thats respect. Contrast this with Obama, who until recently had gone once as part of a group of other Senators. Sure, he was running for President, but the man seems to have avoided veterans. In addition, his votes in the Senate have been very questionable. Voting to cut funding to the troops for example.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt here. I want to believe the man will be a decent CinC. Not because I like him, or agree with him. I don't, we're too far apart ideologically. But simply because I hope that people serving their country have a good Commander, leading them. Clinton wasn't a very good one in my opinion. Bush was better, even if following him got a lot of very good people killed. Given a choice, I'd rather have a good CinC, then another Clinton. Because I think it would be better for the country, as well as the troops that serve it.
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smithinjapanNov. 12, 2008 - 10:59AM JST

Nippon: "Being in is being in.. be your job is slinging eggs or hand to hand combat you still served... To judge one if they actually went to war or not is foolish, a veteran is a person who served in the military not a person who was in war... I served in war my brother served in peace but we are still both veterans..... Some who didnt serve in the US military or are even part of the US seem to think they can decide who served and who didnt..."

Oh, please! I can just see Reagan and GWB having a heart to heart about their experiences even with McCain!

McCain: I had some horrible experiences in Viet Nam... and the Hanoi Hilton was no treat. I tell you, I knew then and there that if I survived and came home I was going to change my life.

Reagan: TELL me about it! I was in the soup the whole time... I once fell on a banana peel on the set in Hollywood. Bayonette to the shoulder and groin, John? Try a herniated disc in the back!

GWB: Yeah.... one night when we'suz drinkin' instead of flyin' dem planes we tried to push a helicopter off the carrier deck.... then we arranged a flight to one of the islands to sleep with a bunch of the locals... hehehe... boy my poppa was mad when I skipped flight duty! Guffaw

Now, I agree that seeing active combat and being kept at some base might be similar in terms of 'serving', but if you really by into the foolish propoganda that buying war bonds or flipping eggs 'for the cause' means you are taking part... well... again, foolish.
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adaydreamNov. 12, 2008 - 12:09PM JST

dick cheney got five deferments.

he did so poorly in school drinking and partying that he was kmicked out of Yale and had to go back to the U. of WY.

I think he was ourely trying to avoid the military, not graduate from college. But he avoided the military for so long he had to graduate.

his appearance at a military function is a disgrace. < :-)
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smithinjapanNov. 12, 2008 - 12:39PM JST

Nippon5: "Smith have you served in the military?"

Okay, have it your way; I was in air cadets as a kid. There, okay, can I be called an Air Force veteran? I mean, we had to learn all sorts of hunting/camping skills, learn logistics and battlefield tactics, study controls, etc. Given that we were too young to fly, we DID do a lot more stuff that regular grunts in the Army would do, but that's a given. By your standards, then, I guess I HAVE served in the military!

" I would love for you to talk to the millions who have served in the military but not seen any combat and tell them they dont deserve to be called a veteran."

I never said not seeing combat makes one a non-vet. I said being in movies does not.

"Should a store operator on base or ship not be considered a veteran?"

Nope, they should not. Do you consider the Japanese staff at stores in bases on Nagano to be in the US military? When they quit their jobs are they then veterans? My guess is that you would say 'no'. So, why aren't they?

"I have disagreed with you on things you can have an opinion on and sometimes you have some points, but this one here just shows "without a doubt" how much of an ignoramus you can be."

Hahaha... things 'I can have an opinion on', eh? I have news for you; I can have an opinion on ANYTHING. That opinion can be more or less educated, based on experience/knowledge, and it can be more or less 'off the ball', depending on objectivity. I'm not sniping, but it's you who have proven to be slightly deficient when it comes to substance, and I believe my points here have shown that; you do not have to be directly invovled in something to have knowledge about it. Sure, that knowledge helps, but don't lecture me that GWB knows war is a good thing simply because he was drunk and partied all the time instead of fighting in Viet Nam, while I am wrong to disagree with war because I know all about what it does to the nations involved.

Anyway, I'm off to teach a class. Oh, that reminds me... if I'm teaching a class to a young buck who's in the SDF, and he's helping with refueling in the Indian Ocean, does that make me a veteran? Just curious... I want to apply to both the Japanese and American governments for veteran benefits.
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smithinjapanNov. 12, 2008 - 12:54PM JST

Molenir: A much, much better post, and you may have even won me over in a few parts. I don't see, as you say, anything wrong with going and showing your respects, and I suppose you even have an obligation to do so as the CinC who sent people off to their deaths, injuries, combat, etc. (okay, the 'illegal' thing is getting a bit silly, though it's still fact). BUT, people who come on here and say bush, and particularly Cheney, have more right to show respect as VETERANS than another CinC who wishes to show respect... well, I think that's where most of us start the name-calling and pointing out deferments, lack of combat, not actually being in the military, etc.

We want to talk simply about paying respects then? Well, that's another story. I still think it's a bit foolish of bush/cheney to stand up and address large crowds about danger when the Vets, in any case, were in danger while he(they) were not. In particular I take offense to him using said speeches to try and muster up justification for wars that should never have happened, etc., and which resulted in the widowing and/or burying of many of the loved ones he is addressing.

Okay, it's perhaps a GOOD thing that in particular bush went and visited some of the people he himself sent in harms way; but if one of said vets spit in bush's face and called him a moron for doing so, you could not say it is undeserved or bad.

Anyway, thanks for the much more down to earth posts. I'll try to do the same and keep the talk more civil (in cases where I'm not replying to UNcivil comments, etc.).
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MolenirNov. 12, 2008 - 01:08PM JST

daydream - I think this speaks more about what you then Cheney. Speaking for myself. I would be happy, indeed proud to have him at my local Veterans day parade. Indeed I think I could speak for most veterans when I say I think feel about the same way I do.
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skipthesongNov. 12, 2008 - 02:18PM JST

smitty, most people who join don't get their choices granted. You can jump up and down and beg to go to combat, but if your unit is not needed in accordance to what the generals put together, you ain't going. So, no matter what any of us did during those times of war was not by choice. I mean, if I had a choice I sure as heck would have preferred to have been a more macho type of job instead of a medic.
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adaydreamNov. 12, 2008 - 03:16PM JST

Molenir - I proudly turned by back on dick cheney several years ago at Arrowhead Stadium when he came to a game. You can have him. < :-)
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Nippon5Nov. 12, 2008 - 07:05PM JST

Once again for those who cant follow very simple English..

Once you sign the enlistment contract/ get drafted.. Raise your hand for your country, and finish boot camp..... then you are a military person.. when you stop working for your goverment you become a veteran..

Your job title while you are in the service doesnt determine if you are a veteran once you are not in the service..

So for those(the one guy who doesnt get it) who still dont understand, no matter what job Ronald Reagon did while he served doesnt change the fact he is a veteran, and the same goes for George Bush, Elvis, McCain, but no matter what it doesnt apply to anyone who was a girlscout and felt like they had been in the military like one on here is trying to make a point with...
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Nippon5Nov. 12, 2008 - 07:09PM JST

as far as the VP.. He is doing his job standing in for the President at a function. So in that case he is representing the C in C and I have no problem with that...

Doesnt mean I have to like the man and his ideas, but I do respect his position as the VP, just like Biden (I dont like allot of his Ideas, but I do respect his position).
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SargeNov. 12, 2008 - 10:52PM JST

And in a separate ceremony, Obama paid his respects at Soldier Field in Chicago.
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smithinjapanNov. 12, 2008 - 11:55PM JST

Nippon5: You never said someone who signed up, you simply said 'someone who works at a store on a ship or base'. I realize I'm getting into semantics, but there's a major difference between saying and not saying that important fact. We then further get into semantics when we compare the things bush did 'in the military' with people like McCain. The former most certainly did not serve his country with honour, and deserves about the same status of veteran as someone who ran away from his post during war and went AWOL.

Bush is not a war veteran, sorry. A military veteran... you can argue that. A war veteran, not in the least.

Anyway, nippon5, don't get on my case about understanding English; while everyone makes typos in their comments from time to time, EVERY one of yours is so full of them that half the time they don't make sense. I'm being nit-picky here, but only in my own defense. I understand full well what you have been saying all day, and only made ridiculous allusions to point out how equally silly some of yours have been. You want to harp on technicalities where you failed to mention them before, fine, I can do the same and then some (harp on technicalities, that is, not fail to mention them).

I realize that with the current Republican loss and your subsequent upset you are looking for ways to try and beat on people, but you won't find them with me. Lash out in a positive manner, my friend, somewhere else.
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adaydreamNov. 13, 2008 - 12:18AM JST

I'll be glad to never see george bush or dick cheney ever do another honor for vets again. They are the real hypocrits. < :-)
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Nippon5Nov. 13, 2008 - 08:42AM JST

Being in is being in.. be your job is slinging eggs or hand to hand combat you still served

Umm smith actually I did... see the above statement... and it also seems everyone else understood it fine..

USAFdude at 09:48 AM JST - 12th November

smith - I gotta give this one to Nippon, dude. Every service member's job contributes to the overall whole.

I would rather have a typo or a miss spelled word then an idiotic statement like the ones you throw around, sorry I might be nit picky too, but most of the time you speak from your opinion and ignore the facts.. Just like saying my Republican candidate didnt get in, since I voted for Barr that would be a hard one to sell. Who did you vote for? ohh thats right you cant vote...sorry

Actually any veteran who serves during a war is a war veteran, he might not of seen combat, but if you serve during the time of war you get the medals and the ribbons just like all the other guys..

Like it or not your statement is based on your hate of a man and not on facts,just like so many of your comments..

In your defense you cant help it when you sound so out of reality because you try to be right even though you have no clue, which is part of your MO--- anti American--- Anti Bush---always try to sound right----

I leave you with this..

Opinions are like bungholes, everyone has one and they all stink....