Bush dodges shoe protest during visit to Iraq

Monday 15th December, 07:49 AM JST

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cleo at 01:32 PM JST - 17th December

those two countries, Iraq and Afghanistan, were also occupied, ruled or created by Great Britain.

So was America, in a way. Your point being...?
SuperLib at 01:39 PM JST - 17th December

Well I'd have to disagree with you, cleo. I don't think Bush is a wimp for not starting wars with Pakistan or North Korea. I think it's a pretty smart play. I'm surprised that someone who claims to be anti-war would call a leader a wimp for not starting more wars. Starting a nuclear war is a world changing experience, not really something you should be chest thumping about.
TooFarGone at 01:40 PM JST - 17th December

cleo:

So was America, in a way. Your point being...?

In a very far-fetched way.

My point being our next president, son of a victim of your corrupt empire in Africa, will also have to deal with the disastrous consequences of British intervention and shortsighted foreign policy in the ME,Afghanistan and Pakistan - whether he likes it or no.
cleo at 01:51 PM JST - 17th December

SuperLib -

Sorry, you misunderstand me. I didn't mean he was a coward for not starting wars against countries with nuclear weapons, I meant he was a coward for starting wars against countries he knew were defenceless. In other words, he did exactly what the shoe-thrower did, only on a much larger scale and for much less reason and justification. I don't imagine the people calling the shoe-thrower a coward because he didn't throw his shoes at Arab dictators are actually suggesting that he should do so. Or maybe I'm misreading what they are saying.

TFG -

Mmm, I think what Obama will be dealing with in the Middle East will be the disastrous consequences of Bush intervention and shortsighted foreign policy.
TooFarGone at 02:04 PM JST - 17th December

Author, ME expert and former soldier Ralph Peters nails it:

The only countries in the Middle East where a journalist could survive after such behavior are Iraq, maybe Lebanon - and Israel. Even Jordan doesn't allow such freedom.

"The media have been having a ball with the video of the Great Baghdad Shoe Toss. But they've missed the point completely. Our sacrifices let that pathetic reporter muster the courage to hurl his shoes at our president: He knew he could get away with it.

Brothers and sisters, the world has changed since 2003.

Yes, Iraq could still fail. The Arab genius for failure is the region's salient talent. But one Arab state has been given a chance to build something better than a nationwide prison - not perfect, but better.
likeitis at 02:54 PM JST - 17th December

TooFarGone, Ralph Peters does not seem to realize the guy is not free. Neither do you. The guy is in jail, and I have no idea what is in store for him.

Even Jordan doesn't allow such freedom.

Iraq not beheading him the spot hardly makes is some kind of freedumb.

Our sacrifices let that pathetic reporter muster the courage to hurl his shoes at our president: He knew he could get away with it.

He is not getting away with it. He is jail.

But they've missed the point completely.

I think Peter's should have stuck with being a soldier. He might have a better understanding of bayonet points. The only point to miss here was the one Shoe Bomber 2 was making, agree or not. Somebody might use it to make other points, but it would not be "the" point to miss or not.
SuperLib at 05:17 PM JST - 17th December

cleo: I meant he was a coward for starting wars against countries he knew were defenceless.

I knew what you were saying. The flip side would be to say that someone is brave for starting wars with Pakistan and North Korea, which I'm guessing you wouldn't agree with. Your choice of adjectives is an emotional one that doesn't quite fit.

May I ask if all of the countries who participated in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are cowards, including your own? If so, have you ever directly called them cowards?
cleo at 05:33 PM JST - 17th December

SuperLib -

The flip side would be to say that someone is brave for starting wars with Pakistan and North Korea

No, saying that someone is a coward for doing A is not the flip side of saying they are brave for doing B. Would the shoe thrower have been brave if he'd thrown his shoes at Saddam? Or foolhardy? Bear in mind the fact that when Muntadar al-Zeidi throws a shoe at Bush it's Muntadar al-Zeidi that ends up with a broken arm or whatever other consequences there may be; when Bush invades another country, he sits cozy in the White House making Christmas videos with Barney while other people bear the brunt and get a lot more than their arms broken.

It isn't my choice of adjectives, by the way; I was simply picking up the point made by smitty in his answer to USARonin, comparing the shoe thrower with Bush. I think smitty made a very valid point.

May I ask if all of the countries who participated in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are cowards, including your own? If so, have you ever directly called them cowards?

Countries? No. Countries are impersonal, they're neither cowardly nor brave. The leaders of those countries, the people who made the decision to follow Bush into 'battle'? Heck yes, from the start I have made my opinion of Tony Bliar, prime poodle and hypocritical Catholic convert, perfectly clear.
apecNetworks at 05:53 PM JST - 17th December

I am glad that the thrown shoes both missed. Pres. Bush and his Administration's term is almost over, and it is better that no major incident occurs. The Secret Service and security detail should be enhanced, and wait for Pres.-elect Obama to establish his policies. Maybe he can get that crummy image of the US promoting torture turned around, and somehow return the US to have some semblance of a constitutional democracy.
ca1ic0cat at 02:41 AM JST - 18th December

I'm sure that the guy would not have made the throws if he knew he was going to hang for it, but shoes for the memories.

If Bush hadn't bungled the occupation of Iraq and engaged in human rights violations I might have felt that the guy didn't have a reason to complain. Of course he does and now, in Iraq, he can. Thanks to Bush & co.

So it's a tangled story. Plenty of anger to go around. Guess we'll see what happens next. But really, no harm, no foul. Let the guy go.
hattori at 10:14 PM JST - 18th December

i disagree about al-zaidi bieng a cowrd for many reasons: he's action was natural reflex when he saw his country is occupied and thousnds of civilians was killed in cold blood. puting aside the killing of many journalists in iraq by us soldiers.

I belive the real cowrds are those who couldn't understand the meanning of liberty and remaking what saddam did in his ruling days and much worse by breaking the hands and ribs of a protester journalist and toturing him right now in prison.
USARonin at 08:30 AM JST - 19th December

Cleo, Mr. Smith, and Co.

The coward has apologized and begs for a pardon:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9558CPG0&show_article=1

You can stop all your moral equivocations now and climb down off the fence. Even this guy doesn't buy what you're sellin'.
zurcronium at 03:50 PM JST - 19th December

USARonin,

after torture, he is bound to say anything.
likeitis at 04:41 PM JST - 19th December

The coward has apologized and begs for a pardon:

You really should drop this "coward" nonsense. It does you no credit. I am doing you a favor, but I suggest "nutcase". Much easier to call this act crazy than cowardly. Cowardly would have been kowtowing to Bush despite hating him. Honestly, the guy could have been shot on the spot. If the timing was right, such as mid-throw of the second shoe, not many would complain about it. You just don't throw things at the American president.

Jack Handy once said: I think a good gift for the President would be a chocolate revolver. And since he's so busy, you'd probably have to run up to him real quick and hand it to him.

You would either have to be very brave or crazy, or angry to the point of crazy, ie "mad" to do this. Personally I think its a mix of all the above.
boarder at 10:42 PM JST - 20th December

To bad Bush the incident couldn't be in Canada, cause they would have been size 10 ski boots! I respect Muntadar al-Zeidi for taking on the ultimate Terrorist of the world. Wouldn't it have been great if everyone in that room started throwing shoes?