Friday February 17, 2012

Bush warns of recession without rescue plan; invites Mccain, Obama to meeting

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  • 0

    yabits

    The bailout, which the Bush administration asked Congress last weekend to approve before it adjourns, is meeting with deep skepticism, especially from conservatives in Bush’s own party who are revolting at the high price tag and unprecedented private-sector intervention.

    This massive government intervention is testing many of the core values of Republicanism, and recalls the days of wage and price controls of Nixon's administration.

    One Republican value, however, is certain to remain intact: find a Democrat to pin the blame on.

  • 0

    yabits

    The thing that is unmentioned is that no one is giving the odds that this desperation move is going to turn this mess around.

  • 0

    Alinsky4prez

    I refuse to believe any of this. The joy and pride I felt back in 1999 is still too strong to let repub values like 'rationality' spoil the memory. I can still taste the decaf latte I was drinking that day as I perused the The NY Times, because it fused with the tears I wept as I read this:

    "In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders."

  • 0

    TheBlueTeam

    WEll done Bush, remaining strong and ensuring our economy is safe. Looking after the average guy is his best achievement, his rescue plan is welcomed by rich and poor alike.

    The Bush legacy remains intact.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    Great stuff Bush! Screw the US taxpayer for $1 trillion + on an unnecessary war in Iraq, screw the US taxpayer by slashing taxes for the rich, and now screw the US taxpayer by getting them to prop up failed private companies to the tune of $700 billion.

    Thank God no decent sensible Americans are going to vote for bush's clone brother john mccain.

    Bush's now well and truly will have zero legacy.

    What a failure.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Sushi, you think the government shouldn't go through with the $700 bail out? I figured you'd support it given the alternatives.

  • 0

    yabits

    I refuse to believe any of this.

    After the lies that alinsky posted regarding AIG paying Congressman Rangel $10 million, it is readers who come to the same conclusion about his writings.

    Looks to me like McCain's campaign manager, Ricky Davis, was quite successful in his lobbying work getting the FMs out onto thinner and thinner ice. After all, they paid him nearly two million dollars!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us/politics/22mccain.html

    Perhaps McCain should send the chief architect of his economic plan, Phil Gramm, to the meetings in DC, so that Americans can hear more about how this is all in our minds.

  • 0

    Betzee

    In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers,

    This top-down vs. bottom-up debate about the cause of America’s current financial problems wasn’t linked to race/ethnicity [until] Neil Cavuto (at Fox News) brought that subterranean theme out into the bright light of day...by specifically flagging “minorities” as the borrowers at fault. They were the one’s who disproportionately took these loans, he argues. And they weren’t responsible enough to handle them. Is this another version of the “culture of poverty” argument retooled for a different kind of macroeconomic analysis?

    Perhaps, and intended to obscure the fact that the unprecedented bail-out is not for either minorities or homeowners more generally. Rather the bailout is for Wall Street.

    http://chronicle.com/review/brainstorm/jackson/blaming-the-victims

  • 0

    Betzee

    As a rule, presidents in moments of national crisis aim to reassure a nervous populace. But on Wednesday night, Bush faced a unique challenge -- convincing his country that the United States is in such dire straits that we have no choice but to expeditiously enact the Paulson plan to spend as much $700 billion "so banks and other financial institutions can avoid collapse."

    So -- this was no time to channel the ghost of FDR and tell us that the only thing to fear is fear itself. Instead, we were told that we should be fearful, that the "situation is becoming more precarious by the day" and that "the market is not functioning properly, there is a widespread loss of confidence and major sectors of American industry are in danger of shutting down."

    Yikes!

    http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2008/09/25/bushbailoutspeech/

  • 0

    Betzee

    It's not clear how many Americans believe the crisis is that serious (and this is the problem in trying to sell the Paulson plan). I mean even steadfast Bush supporters like Sarge have offered the opinion that Wall Street's failure wouldn't have much of an impact on the economy. So why do we need to shell out a huge chunk of change to save it from going under?

  • 0

    adaydream

    So george bush, Barack Obama, John McCain and a few kew congressmen are going to put together this package to spend no less than $700,000,000,000.00.

    Like I want a few people making some decisions like this. That's how george bush started the george bush Memorial War in Iraq. A few people made a bunch of stupid decisions.

    I want the whole congress on this. < :-)

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Bush's government 'legacy' can be summed up in a single word: "failure". From start to finish, that's been the case, and trying to fob off the blame here for what he has caused -- the single worst recession since the Great Depression isn't going to change that fact.

    It's funny how no one jumps to bush's defense any longer when you point out that he is the worst president in American history.

  • 0

    TheNewFed

    smithinjapan- The economic woes are caused by bankers wprldide haveing btoo much greed.

    Bush could not have stopped this crisis. Remeber the US ahs had 8 yeras of continude economic growth. A guy voted into office twice hardly rankd as the worst prsedent ever, i think you mean Carter.

  • 0

    Sarge

    smith, you are so wrong, first, Bush didn't cause this, second, it's not the worst recession since the Great Depression, and third, you aren't an American and don't live in America, so why are you whining about this?

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    TheNewFed: "Remeber the US ahs had 8 yeras of continude economic growth."

    You're new handle and post are hardly worth commenting on, but why not, eh? First and foremost... you call what's happening now 'growth'? Well, sorry, but it's on the same president's dime. What's more, he took a government surplus and turned it into the hugest debt the US has EVER faced, cut taxes to the rich, and pretty much single-handedly helped turn things into the result you're seeing now. That's ONE reason, among many, why he will most certainly go down as the worst president in history.

    'Nuff said.

  • 0

    taniwha

    Sarge,

    Bush didn't cause this, second, it's not the worst recession since the Great Depression, and third, you aren't an American and don't live in America, so why are you whining about this?

    Oh come on. What do you mean we who don't live in America can't comment on your president of two terms? He's done so much for so many people. He would have just because he's the president of the US in any event.

    For starters when the US votes in a president it tends to have a very real impact on the entire globe, because of the position America has held in the global economy. Now that it uses the worlds most powerful military to exert its foreign policy in anyone and anywhere it wants a US presidential election is of interest to people other than Americans.

    The whole world should get to vote given US foreign policy (militarily exacted as it is) simply regards the rest of the globe as its own stomping field.

    You are right about Bush. He wasn't the cause of the financial crises - he was a product, a symptom if you like, of the inevitable rapidly developing collapse of US Capitalism (and inextricably linked to the terminal condition of world Capitalism). And you are kind've correct re the state of the economy, this isn't another Great Depression - YET.

    It's really difficult though, to argue that the US is not like a number of other countries currently in a recession.

  • 0

    Alinsky4prez

    First and foremost... you call what's happening now 'growth'? Well, sorry, but it's on the same president's dime.

    Dime, or nickel? Which one is it?

  • 0

    timorborder

    Curious George has done it again.... What crowd of idiots put this guy in charge?

  • 0

    Sarge

    "What crowd of idiots put this guy in charge?"

    You just insulted 62,040,610 Americans.

  • 0

    USARonin

    TJrandom, I dunno...

    Because I'm the milk of human kindness, I have many friends.

    Not me nor any of them have been "impoverished" in any way.

    No one's told me that their personal "privacy" has been "stolen".

    If you're talkin' about those "golden parachutes" that stockholders continue to award CEOs no matter how well or no matter how miserable they do, that has nothin' to do with the government.

    Are you sure you got the right country, my friend?

    USAR

  • 0

    Loki520

    TJ, nobody did anything to you. Get over yourself. I agree with USAR... where you been?

    Name a privacy right you have that's been stolen and how you've been targeted. If your impoverished, YOU did it thru poor financial planning.

  • 0

    CavemanLawyer

    Remeber the US ahs had 8 yeras of continude economic growth.

    Please define economic growth. What terms are using to define it? I can only imagine you are conveniently tossing out the national debt in your analysis, if what you are thinking is worthy of the term "analysis".

    A guy voted into office twice hardly rankd as the worst prsedent ever

    Sure he could. But Americans might also be remembered for being stupider than they have ever been in their history right along with him, or at least the voting majority will be. But I am not discounting the effect of corrupt election practices nor even those computerized voting machines.

    i think you mean Carter.

    So many of you righties have an effigy of Carter in your mind you enjoy setting fire to when things dont go your way. More action than a security blanket I suppose. I cannot think of anything Carter did or could have done. The excuse you give Bush is far more applicable to Carter: There is nothing he could have done. Unlike the hostage crisis and the oil shocks, this crisis was both foreseeable and internal, which means it was much more preventable.

    I could cite some polls on the rank of the Carter presidency, but why bother? So many people put Lincoln right up at the top, which just goes to show that so many don't much at all.

    --Cirroc

  • 0

    CavemanLawyer

    You just insulted 62,040,610 Americans.

    And it was well earned.

    --Cirroc

  • 0

    skipthesong

    I wonder if the writer of this article is a recent enthusiastic grad.

    "tracing the origins of the problem back a decade to a large influx of money into the U.S. system from overseas, low interest rates, the “faulty assumption” that home values would continue to skyrocket, easy lending by mortgage companies, over-borrowing by home owners and exuberant building by construction firms." Wish the writer, with all his gall, would tell us where in that statement is Bush Jr. wrong.

    But now on this:

    "But while generally acknowledging risky and poorly thought-out financial decisions at many levels of society, Bush never assigned blame to any specific entity, such as his administration, the quasi-indepedent mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, or the Wall Street firms that built rising profits on increasingly speculative mortgage-backed securities."

    1. placing a blame isn't going to help. In fact it is almost grade school-ish. The blame game can assigned after something starts. Why delay anything all for a blame?

    2. What the writer and many don't get is that many of us, right here on JT made a whole lot of cash on these vehicles that are being said to have been bad, but were good at the time.

    3. If he/she really knew what the problem was he wouldn't be endorsing Dems and dogging Reps past actions - he would be advocating how stupid we were for NOT VOTING FOR ROSS PEROT and not Bill (even though I liked him, I wanted Ross because Perot basically predicted this situation line by line

      Instead, he spoke in terms of investment banks that “found themselves saddled with” toxic assets and banks that “found themselves” with questionable balance sheets." Give us the reason without bias. There are reasons why many thought allowing le cinga loca like lending was a good thing and that was bi-Parisian.

  • 0

    yabits

    As a result of his masterful running of the nation, a monument to George W. Bush has been designed and will soon appear somewhere near our nation's capital -- probably Baltimore. Here's a peek:

    http://people.delphiforums.com/justtom2/graphics/bush-monument.gif

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    sarge: "smith, you are so wrong, first, Bush didn't cause this, second, it's not the worst recession since the Great Depression, and third, you aren't an American and don't live in America, so why are you whining about this?"

    I'm not whining about it at all, I'm LAUGHING about it! You guys sealed your own fate 8 years ago when Bush started this all, and don't kid yourself that he didn't. I can comment about it all I want... it's a newsstory on a Japanese site.

    "You just insulted 62,040,610 Americans"

    I'm sure every single one of them would happily kick your president in the a$$ if he would kindly bend over in front of them. Hell, I bet every single person on the planet would, save maybe you (although you'd have to, if you are a supporter of McCain and McCain is not with bush... can't have both!) and a handful of others in denial.

  • 0

    Sarge

    smith - If you're LAUGHING about it, then that make you pretty insensitive to Americans' plight. What the heck is wrong with you?

    "I'm sure every single ( American who voted for Bush ) would happily kick your president in the a$$"

    They would not.

    "McCain is not with bush"

    He's not McSame anymore?

  • 0

    USARonin

    Oh, yes they do, Xennon. They have all of that.

    But if you want to consider it "stolen" than you need to go further back than Dubya to find the culprit and their foreign "accomplices". -Dubya who you blamed for this in the first place for your feelin' so horribly violated.

    Now that you have the knowledge, you can freely choose to stop postin', emailin' Faxin', usin' an ATM, your ground and cell phones...

    Back to nature for you, my friend.

    USAR

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    sarge: "If you're LAUGHING about it, then that make you pretty insensitive to Americans' plight. What the heck is wrong with you?"

    You want me to feel sorry for you for voting in your own worst nightmare TWICE, against all those who had better judgement but had to suffer on your behalf? Not a chance, my friend. When you finally stop lying to yourself and admit you have been wrong all along, THEN I'll feel sorry for you and help you up off your knees. I won't hold my breath though, particularly since, even though you STILL defend bush and at the same time proclaim to support a man who himself says he is dead against him, you are going to vote once again in the wrong direction.

    Hahaha.

    "They would not"

    Okay, I exaggerated. Out of those 62 million Americans that you say were insulted, statistically only 50 million plus would now kick GWB in the a$$... and no doubt those who feel betrayed would kick a LOT harder. The other 12 million? hiding for shame.

  • 0

    yabits

    smithinjapan,

    You are calling sarge's baby "ugly." Bush's inviting of McCain and Obama to DC only attempts to inject more politics and grandstanding into the crisis.

    Bush reminds me very much of the Enron-type CEO who keeps denying the scope and nature of the problems until the wolf finally arrives at the door. There is no doubt that the Bush Administration had all of the necessary regulatory tools in hand to have averted this fiasco. But their need to "show the numbers" for each reporting period, as well as a "market-knows-best" blind optimism trumped what a number of people could sense was a market out of control.

    The election of 2004 was the biggest failure of civic responsibility in the history of the United States.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Bush's inviting of McCain and Obama to DC only attempts to inject more politics and grandstanding into the crisis.

    Yadbits, your goal with every post you write is to present the entire issue with a political slant. I would imagine the only criticism you could give regarding playing politics would be to say that someone isn't doing it enough.

  • 0

    tigris

    American capitalism = socialism for the rich

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    USAronin: As I said to sarge, I'm not worried about a thing... I find the whole thing humourous. I DO feel sorry for those who never asked for this (who never supported bush), but for those you did... you made your bed, you lie in it.

  • 0

    Badsey

    uneducated or the poor will always be taken advantage of -it's the job of Gov to protect them from the unscrupulous. I could easily get most people to sign the most lop-sided contract if you were not in the position to fight it or say no.

    Even someone with money could have their low-interest loan escalated due to false late payment and have their interest payment go up 2x. Look at credit cards -they can change their interest charges monthly (considered a short-term and not a longterm loan). =with the interest rates rising who will want to be holding these low interest promissary notes (loans) -expect the unscrupulous to take advantage and are you ready to pay off that loan or fight a financial company with billions at their disposal.

    I would advise people to pay your loans electronically and early just to be safe. -watch those payments.

  • 0

    Alinsky4prez

    Has Bloomberg been bought out by Fox?

    "...That such a reckless political stand could have been taken by the Democrats was obscene even then. [Peter] Wallison wrote at the time: "It is a classic case of socializing the risk while privatizing the profit. The Democrats and the few Republicans who oppose portfolio limitations could not possibly do so if their constituents understood what they were doing.'' Now that the collapse has occurred, the roadblock built by Senate Democrats in 2005 is unforgivable. Many who opposed the bill doubtlessly did so for honorable reasons. Fannie and Freddie provided mounds of materials defending their practices. Perhaps some found their propaganda convincing. But we now know that many of the senators who protected Fannie and Freddie, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Christopher Dodd, have received mind-boggling levels of financial support from them over the years."

    How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis: Kevin Hassett

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    Sarge, SmithinJapan is right on the money - "You guys sealed your own fate 8 years ago."

    Sarge, you've been flat wrong 8 years straight. Most of us have known all along that you and the other Republicans who have been blindly devoted to bush have been flat wrong; what's amazing is that people like you STILL think there is a shred of decency and honesty in the current president.

    That is quite possibly the most flawed judgement of character ever seen.

    And as Yabits says, "The election of 2004 was the biggest failure of civic responsibility in the history of the United States."

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    Sarge, while bush and co. are not fully responsible for this current crisis, you cannot deny they don't have their hands dirty, as they HAVE been driving this economy for the last 8 years as the ruling party and have had every chance to tweak financial industry regulations.

    But Sarge, now, they are intent on sucking hundreds of billions more of US taxpayers money that could have been used for your and your family's social security, healthcare and education and using it to purchase worthless toxic loans that - let's face it - are worth next to nothing, if that.

    Sarge, how does that make you feel?

    But that's not all.

    No, the candidate you support (although you in particular, Sarge, have admitted more than once that mccain was NOT and would never have been your first pick - as it the case with millions of other Republicans) - the candidate you support - john mccain - has ADMITTED he doesn't know jack about economic issues.

    And you actually want him in charge?

    Are you serious?????????

  • 0

    cleo

    pretty insensitive to Americans' plight. What the heck is wrong with you?

    I wonder if Sarge feels sorry for patricides on account of how they're orphans.

    Moderator: All readers back on topic please.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    The Republicans - the Party Of the Rich - have no one really but themselves to blame for this shocker.

    And as the situation gets worse, Obama's poll ratings just go up and up as more and more patriotic and sensible Americans realize john mccain is not and never was the man to fix this mess.

    **john mcain - crap pilot, serial flip-flopper, woman panderer, economic airhead, and one half of the 'famous' McCain-Palin Celebrity Ticket ** :-)

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    Sarge and the other Republicans out there - I'd advise you now to quit kidding yourself that john mccain is right for America.

    Sure, Obama's not perfect, but compared to mccain, he has far more redeeming qualities - and very importantly - better wisdom and better judgement than the old guy will ever have.

    Do you **really **want to wreck the nation you love even more by voting mccaain?

    Isn't it time you joined join the rest of the world and get serious about your nation's future?

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    Obama spokesman Bill Burton said the senator would attend

    Heh, looks like obama was against returning to DC before he was for it.

    Rodney

  • 0

    Alinsky4prez

    The Republicans - the Party Of the Rich - have no one really but themselves to blame for this shocker.

    Barack raised 60 million in August!

  • 0

    ca1ic0cat

    fools rush in where angels fear to tread....

    After all the other dire consequesces GW has warned us about - and the real ones that he missed completely - I have to wonder if I'm really willing to hand $700B to a bunch of looser bankers.

    It might be reasonable if congress set up it's own group to pick up non-performing mortgages from individuals as they became problems. Congress could set up something to provide liquidity for auto loans they way they did student loans. Such measures would have to have sunset clauses as well as caps. They would require a lot of work and a lot of people to do that work. Sort of a WPA project to help people get jobs.

    Then let the investment bankers go broke.

  • 0

    KitsuneYoukai

    Sorry guys but unless your up on facts about how we got here, it was all in the legislation the majority Democratic Congress set in motion. So, the key here is to avoid the same mistakes again. The Republicans did not do this. Obviously by some biased posters here towards Democrats who do not want to hear the truth or know the facts want to blame this on Republicans. It amazes me the lies told time and time again. I don't want government telling me how to run my life and that is what exactly the Democratic party wants to do. the government owes me nothing, it is up to me to take care of my life and succeed.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    What amazes me is the obvious political maneuvering. If an issue this big can't shake people from the grip of polarization, what will?

  • 0

    Good_Jorb

    The lovelyness of partisan politics, the Republicans did not do this, the Democrats did this. Will anyone blame the real culprit? Every person, business, corpration and politican who thought it was to live the dream by paying for it in debt.

    Kitsune, of course the goverment owes you nothing because you owe the government more. The money for the $700 billion welfare check has to come from somewhere(Taxpayers). I guess for libertarian like yourself, the Republican plans for the socialization of the basis for capitalism in America is ok?

  • 0

    adaydream

    Thank you george bush for your wonderful guidance as our president and leader. That being said, I believe that you did your best. It's just not in your being to be honest and forthright with the citizens of the United States.

    you screwed the nations and started your war. you gave away $4,000,000,000,000.00 to the richest 1% of the nation.

    then your leadership allowed the stock market to crap out. Remember saying day after day, Our economy is strong!!!. OUR ECONOMY IS STRONG!!!!! Then overnight, Our economy is in dire straits. Where have you been all this time?

    Why has he been talking out the side of his mouth for months and months?

    george bush's policies and war stradegies have wrecked this country. < :-)

  • 0

    yabits

    KistuneYoukai writes: "Sorry guys but unless your up on facts about how we got here, it was all in the legislation the majority Democratic Congress set in motion."

    What specific piece of legislation are you referring to? Titles and/or bill numbers would be appreciated. No economist that I have read has come up with anything resembling this statement. Where are you getting your "facts?"

    The simple fact is that the Bush administration had all of the regulatory tools at its command to have prevented this, should it have decided to use them.

  • 0

    Sarge

    Sushi: "Sure, Obama's not perfect"

    I'll go along with that.

    "... but compared to mccain, he has far more redeeming qualities"

    Only someone who is clueless could say that. McCain is not the one who surrounds hmself with communists, Marxists, domestic terrorists and anti-American bigots.

  • 0

    Betzee

    Yabits,

    Today I read a piece by Ron Suskind in which he compares the 2001 implosion of Enron with the 1993 World Trade Center bombings. Both should have been heeded as wake-up calls that we had entered a new world.

    I remember asking my CPA brother why Enron had failed in the immediate aftermath of the headlines. He couldn't say without studying it more closely and no wonder; they had fooled Aurthur Anderson into thinking their balance sheet was healthy. Finance had become so arcane it was possible to disguise losses even from those trained to look for them.

    Instead of acknowledging the potential damage this could to our economy, Enron was written off as the work of a "few bad apples." Never mind Kenny Boy had been everyone's best friend in the glory days. While Enron was a disaster for many of its employees whose savings were wiped out (after the top brass golden parachuted to safety), it didn't cost the taxpayers anything (unless you lived in state where they had rigged the energy market). By contrast, this is gonna cost us plenty....

  • 0

    yabits

    Betzee,

    I don't know about other places, but the USA is a society that values reaction to a crisis to the point where we allow problems to fester into crises just to create the opportunities for heroes to rise up and save us. Having the foresight to deal with problems while they are still germinating is something for which there is little or no appreciation whatsoever.

    Regardless of some of the differences in causes, the dot-com bust and the Enron/Arthur Andersen collapse should have sent out alarm bells. I am positive that a number of people in government saw the dangers, but those in a position of authority preferred not to listen.

  • 0

    adaydream

    Now where are those folks who advocated so hard for george bush's plan to privatize Social Security? With the greed of Wall Street, we'd have put $Billions there and we'd still be rescuing the market. < :-)

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