California court to decide if SeaWorld whales are illegal 'slaves'
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-3
Elbuda Mexicano
What ever happened to Keiko, the killer whale??
4
Ben_Jackinoff
If this wins, then all zoos should be judged illegal prisons.
-3
It"S ME
Got to ask.
If those whales will be seen the same as humans by the law, can the Killer-whale that caused 3 deaths than also be prosecuted and face the punishment as humans would do? Will PETA accept that?
-5
MaboDofuIsSpicy
You are correct It"SME.
Will they be required to attend school and pay taxes eventually?
Whales are food. They entertain us silly humans. They are not human and never will be.
Someone that pulled this suit must have recently watched "Miracle on 34th Street" and still believes there is a Santa.
-5
It"S ME
Sure, vote me down(know it is a few posters that vote down anything I say).
But it truly opens the questions if they have intelligence/rights comparable to humans(as some claim) and we treat them the same than shouldn't they also fall under the same laws, etc for their actions?
Or is it 1984 all over again where some animals are more equal than others?
-4
cleo
That's right, showing a bit of compassion is the same as allowing global whale domination.
Babies and little kids don't pay taxes, don't vote and aren't responsible for their actions, but the onus is on us to nurture and protect them, not abuse and torture them or use them to our own ends. We do this because we're stronger. This idea that we can do whatever we want because we're stronger is, far from being 1984, mediaeval and shameful.
So they don't deny that what they're doing to those animals is slavery and involuntary servitude. They can do it because - well, because they can.
0
Farmboy
This will be a really entertaining case, as defendants argue that the servitude is voluntary and that they are paid in expensive food, given private trainers, and provided with free health care. ( "They can walk out anytime!") If they are human, and were born in the USA, then they have the right to vote as well. Political campaigns are sure to get funnier and funnier, with candidates throwing shrimp to these potential voters.
4
Virtuoso
How will they get the whales into court to testify?
-7
It"S ME
And on cue there is Cleo.
Point is PETA and others like yourself elevate animals to a higher status than humans and thus deserving special treatment. Equal treatment means equal rights, duties and responsibilities and also equal punishment.
This is what 1984 is all about, elevating a group above the rest.
Many people here talk about their rights and freedoms but also ignore their duties and responsibilities that are bound with their rights.
I am all for equal rights if everything else is also equal.
3
Laguna
PETA overstepped itself here - as even most animal rights activists would admit. Any attempt to elevate animals to the status of humans only serves to obfuscate what is more important: that animals be treated humanely and be kept, if at all, only in environments conducive to their biological and emotional imperatives.
8
Elvensilvan
I have been speechless (and probably went brain-dead) while reading this article till I saw this comment:
That just cracked me up, and I totally agree.
While we're in the topic of animal rights and protection, can we sue the crows (カラス) for theft or burglary, littering (garbage) ... and in some cases, assault?
Now the problem is: how to identify that bird that pooped on my car ...
2
Hide Suzuki
WTH ? seriously.
Where are we going to stop ? Are they going to eventually tream insects as equal to humans as well in the future ?
Unbelievable, only in the USA (I hope)
-3
cleo
You don't get it at all. It's because we humans are of a higher status that we have the ability to feel compassion for and responsibility towards those weaker than ourselves, and doing so lifts us still higher. Obviously that doesn't apply to all humans, though.
1984 was about a small elite manipulating the unthinking majority through public mind control and newspeak. You're getting confused with Animal Farm which described the corruption of the leaders of the communist revolution in Russia. No one is suggesting putting whales or any other animals in government.
-2
Pruitt Igoe 72
This is what Occupy W S groups everywhere fought so valiantly for.
-5
It"S ME
Cleo.
I fully get it.
You say we humans should be higher, but we aren't in reality(because most deny their true nature). You are also saying that a "certain" group of humans is better than the rest(1984 again)
Another poster recently equalled all of humanity(that includes all 7+billion people) to a cancer that is destroying the earth and should be removed.
So which is it? Is humanity a cancer or is a small selected group of humanity better than the rest?
-5
cleo
When you rant on about how not acting like mindless barbarians is 'elevating animals to a higher status', you quite obviously don't get it.
No, I say we are higher.
Where did I say that?
-5
It"S ME
Sure I don't get it.
That is christian thinking. Remember you were told that the animals are for us to do as we feel like as they are inferior. Of course proof that we are higher and superior. Heck, we are destroying the earth, great for higher and enlightened beings. If we are superior why did we let it come to this stage?
Hrm, most of your posts if looked aside from your viewpoint.
4
Gurukun
LOL! Is this a joke?
Seriously, regardless if it falls under slavery, cruelty to animals etc., or not., zoos are needed in this world. It's the only way people can see and understand the beauty of these creatures up close. Yes, a majority visit zoos and these types of shows for the entertainment, but there are some, like me, that were in complete amazment when I visited a zoo for the first time. It was definately an educational expirience for me.
-4
cleo
Sorry, but you're definitely banging on the wrong door there, as you'd know if you'd read 'most of my posts'.
Also told that women should shut up and be subservient to men too, your point being......?
-1
cleo
Maybe we should have zoos where we can go and see and understand the beauty of endangered Amazonian tribes, clicking bushmen, dancing Jarawa tribeswomen and Wall Street tycoons, all creatures I otherwise have little to no chance of ever seeing and understanding and may otherwise feel the urge to eat. (Yes, I am being sarcastic).
-1
Pruitt Igoe 72
Next we will free plants and shrubs.
4
sailwind
I will NOT inform my dog of this and his of his "employment" in my house as an unpaid guard dog........My wife has already spoiled him bad enough already as it is without some court getting involved.
-3
Elbuda Mexicano
Ah yes, PETA, if I am not mistaken these are the same guys who go into labs late at night to FREE all the animals that are being used for research purposes??Anyway, I think Cleo has a good sense of humor, and I do read most of the posts she puts up, nice funny sarcasm.
6
cleo
sailwind, your dog is not an 'unpaid guard dog'. You are an unpaid dog-food opener and walkies companion. So am I, in addition to being a cat-litter-cleaner-upperer.
-4
j4p4nFTW
yes, Orwell was warning about the elites in the liberal media long before anyone else. And now we see the effects, people try to give animals rights without them having he responsibilities that come with them. This is what happens when a media is seized by a small group of liberal elites bent on reversing the course God has established for the universe.
2
Gurukun
LOL!! That made my day...nice
2
sakurala
I love animals in all their crazy shapes and forms. I also love being able to go to an aquarium to learn about different species of fish and mammals. I think that if aquariums are operating properly, then they should be allowed to keep larger mammals as well as even the smallest fish (PETA doesn't seem to be suing over the minos right to swim freely in a lake).
I think it would be even better though if most of their animals were rescue animals that wouldn't be able to survive in the wild or couldn't be released after a certain period of time. I find the tricks at aquariums to be educational and fascinationg, but would be happy without if I knew the animals were going to be able to join the families safely once again.
-1
It"S ME
Sakurala. Agree.
Few places that where families can go to and show their off-springs real-life animals.
Cancel all the zoos, etc and where can we show & educate them besides videos, nature channels and physical travels worldwide to physically see them.
Heck, my son was shocked how big a cow was physically the 1st time he met one up close, ditto for pigs, etc.
2
sailwind
Ms. Cleo,
sailwind, your dog is not an 'unpaid guard dog'. You are an unpaid dog-food opener and walkies companion.
I will have you know that I am the Master in my house, that's right, the big cheese, the head honcho, King of the castle and all that other stuff. My dog use to understand our relationship until the better half was able to get at him when I wasn't looking. Such as sneaking food underneath the table at din din time to him as he sat there and looked miserable at her. Yes, I caught her doing it !!!!! And since then its been downhill from there. I don't care what anyone else thinks but a dog doesn't deserve 5 people coats (my wife loves shopping for him) to choose from to slap on him when it is cold outside before his walk......He was already born with a coat for goodness sakes the one nature gave him !!!! This court better throw this suit out before my wife tells my mutt I owe him backpay.
-1
Cletus
It"S ME
So your happy to have animals like whales stuck in a tiny tank, or an elephant in a tiny cement yard for years on end just so people can go and say "OH AH look at the cute animal". Maybe thats half the issue kids then walk away and think thats the norm and totally acceptable. Yes by all means some animals can be kept provided they are kept in decent surrounds (unlike the majority of Japanese zoo's). But keeping large animals in tiny enclosures just so you kid can see one. Nah thats not right.
0
It"S ME
Might get removed.
Recall a visit to Shirakawago some years back. Son was around 2yrs old and bothersome at supper-time. Waiter said to wait 5 minutes. And showed son how he fed a few wild foxes from the terrace. We could nearly touch them. Son still recalls it today 9yrs later.
Nothing beats seeing animals in person, and it does also teach respect for them and their abilities. Same way having a pet teaches them a LOT.
2
cleo
Yes yes sailwind, of course you are.
After the dog and your better half, that is. Don't fight it, down that path lies only sorrow and disillusion.
-3
It"S ME
Cletus.
How to you propose they should meet the real animal?
Most families can't afford to travel the globe to show them off in the wild.
There is a trade-off. Real-life vs kids that never even met a real cow or pig(that is reality).
2
cleo
Take the kids to see killer whales trapped in a tiny concrete tank, cows in a crowded feedlot, pigs in pens too cramped to turn round in. That's reality, but I'd rather have kids growing up not thinking that that is all fine and dandy and the way things should be.
Kids can learn a lot from having well-cared-for and loved animals in the home. If cats and dogs are impractical, most folk can find time and room for a couple of birds or a tank of fish. Teach the kids that animals need caring for, not that they are there to be gawped at and provide cheap entertainment.
3
cleo
That said, I'm not averse to well-laid out zoos that imitate the animals' natural environment and put the animals' welfare first. Not tiny sterile tanks, or barred cages.
-8
It"S ME
Cleo,
Again dead-wrong. Just your perception if you think that is the ONLY way people teach them about animals.
Farm Animals are a FACT of life and there is no use in hiding it and most people don't. That horse you are riding died some time ago. ;)
2
Cletus
It"S ME
You obviously didnt read my post now did you?
Ah so its more important to you that you get to meet an animal rather than the welfare of the animal. So your happy to see for example an elephant stuck for 50 years in a small concrete enclosure with a fake tree and tire as entertainment. Sorry but if you are selling that to your kid as a true representation of an animal then your sadly deluded.
Again if you read my post you would see l was only refering to large animals like whales, elephants where zoo's cannot give them the room or stimulation to keep them sane during their years of captivity.
We are not talking cows or pigs we are talking large wild animals that shouldnt be kept in tiny cages or pools for years on ends. Some animals can be housed in zoo's, your smaller animals can be but not in Japanese type concrete zoo's. You keep saying you want to show your kid these animals, do you explain that when the kid see's them that they actually live in a very different environment to the one they are in for your entertainment.
And if you want your kid to meet a pig or cow take them to a farm. Simple
-8
It"S ME
Cletus.
I read you 100%.
Big animals vs small and not the 1st to comment on that aspect.
Again what is YOUR solution besides ad homimem infinitum.
Like I said there is trade-off. Where is the line?
-5
It"S ME
Cletus.
Again how close should people feel to an animal that they only seen online. May it be a whale, cow, whatever. For most people today they are just as real as the Navi, etc.
In short there is NO connection till they meet them physically and that includes Cows, pigs, whatever.
4
Cletus
It"S ME
So your happy to see and show your kid a large animal like a whale, elephant etc in a zoo in a tiny enclosure and pass that off as being a great learning experience because they got to see the animal. Mind you the animal is in nothing like its natural environment, doesnt act like a real wild animal. What do you tell you kid oh look at that but remember it doesnt really live like that in the wild its just here for your entertainment. Why do you keep bringing up cows, and pigs l am not refering to them you seem fixated on them when l have been purely discussing large animals.
-6
It"S ME
Cletus.
If it is the only realistic and affordable way to do so, so be it.
Not all of us are rich enough to pay for a trip down-under to go on a whale watching tour(boring been on one seen more of the whale online).
Cows and pigs are a good example as most city-raised kids never met them, chance of seeing a big animal like a whale is even more remote).
2
cleo
And you'd have to travel as far to find your kid a real farm animal (as opposed to factory-farmed) as you would to find a whale in its natural habitat.
You know, I've never seen a real live whale? I'd love to see one, but not if it's stuck in a tiny sterile tank and out of its tiny mind. Cletus has it right; showing your kids animals kept for years in unnatural conditions teaches them worse than nothing about those animals, or about how those animals should be treated.
-6
It"S ME
Hrm. 1km is a far travel to show him a real cow/pig. Granted I as a city-raised kid also grew up in our country-houses.
He was raised with pets and values animals greatly at the same he is realistic about pets vs wild animals. Nice ad homimem though.
Got rid of your cats yet?
Moderator
All readers back on topic please. Posts that do not focus on the whales and the court case will be removed.
1
Laguna
If PETA wins, could whales bring a class-action suit against the Japanese government for genocide?
Sailwind, what kind of dog do you have? I have a whippet.
-5
It"S ME
Cleo.
Just take a whale watching tour out of Tokyo bay or from the izu-peninsula. Japan also has many of those
BTW, Killer-whales/Orca are classed as belonging to dolphins and not whales as are most toothed "whales".
-2
Laguna
It"S ME, dolphins and whales are really the same thing, the major difference being whether they have teeth or baleen. Let's just say they're *all-porpoise * .
-1
cloa513
This case shows how dumb and corrupt judges are- they should have rejected the case and banned the lawyers from practicing.
1
smithinjapan
This is a ridiculous case. If they were simply arguing the animals are not being treated well enough and/or could prove they are being abused, I get it. But suggesting they deserve the same treatment and liberties human beings have is ludicrous. I don't mean it's ludicrous because 'they don't deserve it' or anything like that, I think it's ludicrous because they are NOT human beings. Give a shark free reign to swim in a pool with all the other folk and guess what's going to happen. I agree with the poster who said this would then, under such laws, enable the animals to be charged as humans as well (equally ridiculous).
As for grouping Cleo with PETA, It's Me... you've got it way wrong. People caring about the welfare of animals and demanding (or suggesting) they be treated better and be given more is not at all the same as the extreme lengths and practices PETA goes to. The fact remains that animals are not human, as PETA wishes they were, but no reason we cannot treat them humanely.
-5
It"S ME
Smith.
I am a long-time supported of WWF and Greenpeace. Come again.
2
sailwind
Miniature Pinscher , he thinks though he a large one when doing his UNPAID Guard dog duties, I haven't had the heart to tell thim hat when he woofs at the neighbors that they only........errrr, act scared.
-3
Citizen14
The slave bit is pretty silly. So is the constitutional rights bit. And the bit about being equal to human under human laws.
Even so, better treatment of animals besides ourselves and even including ourselves is welcome to the point it should be enshrined in law, complete with stiff punishments for violators.
1
hatsoff
The courts will find in favour of the whales. The whales and other animals will take this as a precedent and file cases with the courts of human rights. Real humans will be forced to stop eating animals. Real humans will be forced to set all farm animals free and close down all abbatoirs. The animals will request government benefits and free housing due to their inability to work in offices. Other work (e.g. pulling ploughs, mowing lawns by eating the grass) will be banned due to protests from those who will claim it is exploitation. The first animal prime minister/president will be elected somewhere in the world in around 2052.
-2
Laguna
...and then: Four legs good! Two legs bad!
(Can't help myself - apologies in advance for the following:)
"Comrades!" Romney cried. "You do not imagine, I hope, that we job creators are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a job creator. We job creators are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for YOUR sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples. Do you know what would happen if we job creators failed in our duty? Jones would come back! Yes, Jones would come back! Surely, comrades," cried Romney almost pleadingly, skipping from side to side and whisking his tail, "surely there is no one among you who wants to see Jones come back?"
-3
OssanAmerica
Now that I have stopped laughing, I hope every contributor to Ingrid's money making cult appreciates how their well intended funds are wasted on silly publicity stuints like this. Animal do not have "rights". Since the animals themselves have no rights you can't bring an action on behalf of one. At least not seriously. As soon as the Orcas submit ther affidavits and appear in court to present their swoen testimony I;ll eat my words. As flor the nutbags who think this is somehow sane I am tempted to entice PETA to bring an abuse charge against dog owers who refuse to let their pets eat meat.
-1
The Truth Matters
As ridiculous as this lawsuit is, I find it far more credible than the idea that corporations are people.
-2
Fadamor
PETA is at it again. Looks like they've finally realized their previous publicity stunts - throwing red paint on people wearing furs - only resulted in an INCREASE in demand for the furs because replacements were needed due to the vandalism. Now they're going to try and get a court to declare domesticated animals "slaves". I hope you don't own a dog or cat, because dogs and cats would fall under any such ruling as well. I wonder what PETA would do if, upon winning the ruling, tens of thousands of pets were euthanized because the owners could no longer own them and the local governments refused to let them be released into the wild.
This is a pure publicity stunt and PETA should be slapped with a "Frivilous Lawsuit" charge. Every definition I can find of "slavery" either specifies being owned by "another" person, or "somebody else". Slavery is people owning people, not people owning animals.
-2
HonestDictator
The animals recieve free room and board from other potential predators, free healtcare (zoos don't want the animals dying on them), free food in exchange of letting us and some biologists examine their behaviours and methods. There are other animals that are quite free to roam in their natural habitats (although once again mankind sucks at not encroaching on those habitats). As long as the animal is healthy and doing fine in captivity and not suffering any abnormal animal abuse its fine. Plus some creatures have had to be kept in captivity due to species endangerment until they recover. We still have to figure out how to properly determine whether certain endangered species are dying due to natural selection or interference from humans. I know I sure would have loved to see a dodo, or giant manatee around.
-2
cleo
And there's the crunch. The dolphins that try to jump out of their tanks are obviously not doing fine in captivity. The orca that flips and kills its trainer is likely mentally unhealthy (same as the big cats that pace back and forth behind bars, and the elephants that stand swaying on concrete). I don't see how anyone can argue that being forced to spend your life in cramped, unnatural surroundings is not animal abuse.
0
peanut666
How stupid can people be? Those whales don't know what being a "slave" is. In fact they probably don't know what a "master" is. They have no conceptual idea of any thing or concept that is culturally human. They don't know what the concept of entertainment is, or education, or anything like that. All they know is that they live in a tank, they do tricks, and they get fed and well taken care of. I'm not saying whales are dumb, but they sure are smarter than the humans who are trying to make people think they are illegal slaves.
0
peanut666
Under the same reasoning, I guess dogs are slaves. I guess cats are slaves too. They exist only for our use, for our company, and for our amusement.
-1
cleo
peanut666 - Do you keep your dog or cat in a tiny sterile cage, make it beg or do tricks for every morsel of food, and get it to jump through hoops for the entertainment of paying visitors?
1
Cletus
peanut666
In some respects you are correct, a whale for example does not know that it is a slave as you say, it also doesnt know what entertainment is. But one thing you cannot deny is it would not know what has happened to it, you are taking an animal that is used to swimming great distances freely. Diving to great depths and doing as it pleases and you shove it in a small cramped tank where at best it can swim in circles with little to no stimulation.
-1
mctavish
From its homepage, SeaWorld likes to present a very inclusive view of things - Here's how it describes the One Ocean show:
http://seaworldparks.com/en/seaworld-sandiego/Attractions/Shows/One-Ocean
It appears to promote all species together in harmony for the greater good. Not sure how that squares with their statements in the article above - no doubt one for the lawyers.
Personally, I accept there's an argument for zoos and similar captivity on the basis of conservation, protection of endangered species and so on, but I find the 'entertainment' aspect distasteful and disrespectful. I'm with PETA.
0
Pruitt Igoe 72
That is the deepest most philosphical statement to ever appear on the web.
2
m5c32
That is a misrepresentation of fact.
Corporations are a "legal person". This allows many things, amongst them, it allows one to sue the entity for liability and such. Try suing a tree.
-1
HonestDictator
@Cleo and as I said the reason why we keep them in cages is to observe and study them, unnatural habitat or not. Try letting a gerbil or rabbit out of its cage and free to roam with no natural life skills and it won't survive. I'm not saying human beings have the right to do all this, but we've already started something that won't stop. The biggest and best reason to keep certain creatures in captivity is if they're under threat of endangerment and extinction. Even wild elephants are still poached for their tusks, same with gorrilas, dolphins aren't really threatened all that much except for when we overfish the oceans and poison the waters, same goes for the orcas... This is all our own doing, and until we wise up on how to properly balance ourselves with nature and natural habitats I'd prefer animals be kept behind cages or aquariums so we can understand them and expose other people to them that may not see these animals in their natural surroundings.
0
HonestDictator
Thanks to my local zoo, I know what an alligator, giraffe, elephant, and tapir looks like, how they move, act, and smell like xD.
-2
smithinjapan
I agree with a lot of Cleo's comments on abuse, but don't agree with a lot of what PETA is saying. If they honestly believe 'Animals' are Human, shouldn't they change the 'A' in their name to another 'P'?
Watch the SouthPark episode: Douche Vs. Turd. While South Park can of course be vulgar and offensive, they do come up with some funny satire once in a while. In this episode they make fun of PETA and a lot of the wind they're puffing with this issue.
-1
Wolfpack
California has been going farther and farther off the deep end for years now. Just recently, a law was passed in the state that would fine any person $1,000 for throwing a frisbee or football on the beach. So a court has actually decided to take up this stupid lawsuit. By this logic, our dogs and cats would be considered slaves also. California is flushing itself down the toilet through huge public debt and public corruption and they come up with stupid stuff like this. Amazing!
1
miyazawa3
Yes release all the whales captivity in Zoos..
so we can catch more whales in pacific
0
napoleancomplex
I think this has already been thrown out by the court, no?
0
OssanAmerica
Yes the Judge threw out this stupid complaint.
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