Monday May 28, 2012

JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Canada denounces Obama 'buy American' proposal

World Sep. 15, 2011 - 05:17AM JST ( 28 )

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

Order by Time Order by Popularity

28 Comments

1

TheQuestionSep. 15, 2011 - 07:21AM JST

I'm at a loss. America used to be the world’s most stalwart advocate of free trade and now we're engaging in protectionism and need our neighbors to the north to remind us how dangerous that line of thinking can be to growth. Free trade helps everyone, protectionism only hinders.
-8

Jeffrey DuelleySep. 15, 2011 - 07:44AM JST

I generally like Canada, but for the first time ever I think Canada should shut up and mind its own business. Free Trade is when rich nations choose to become poor.
1

paulinusaSep. 15, 2011 - 08:18AM JST

Canada had a recent trade surplus with the US of $3.2 billion. "Buy American" might have some effect on that but probably not a lot.
1

RossBardJapanSep. 15, 2011 - 08:55AM JST

Technically speaking it is not Obama who demands that Americans buy only 'Made in America'. It is the unions that Obama and his party are beholden to who want protectionism and less choice,less freedom for the American consumer and worker.
1

AsagaoSep. 15, 2011 - 09:41AM JST

Obama may say buy American, but people will continue to buy cheaper superior Chinese products.
-1

NolivingSep. 15, 2011 - 10:19AM JST

There is one thing that is important to note, buy american doesn't mean they only buy from companies that are HQ or founded in the US. It means buy equipment or materials that are made in the US. So as long as the Canadian company has a facility in the US that makes something that the US government is going to buy they can bid for it.
1

Elbuda MexicanoSep. 15, 2011 - 11:01AM JST

I agree with Asagao, Americans are way to addicted cheap Chinese products, just go take a visit to Walmart, Kmart, etc..mostly MADE IN CHINA!! Are the the Chinese to blame?? No! Rich Americans, you know the ones the OWN Walmart etc..do not care about US, the American workers, or in my case even about Mexican workers, because many, many Mexicans do a lot of the cleaning, custodial work there at your local Walmarts, right??
1

HumanTargetSep. 15, 2011 - 11:57AM JST

Even if you buy Chinese, many Chinese made products contain materials from the US, especially in the tech field. A lot of Apple products may say "Made in China" on them, but a bunch of the parts come from the US. You're still helping the US economy even by buying Chinese.

And, @RossBard,

So if Obama is beholden to the unions, who are the Republicans beholden to? Oh, right, corporations - those things that are legally mandated to do whatever it takes to turn a profit. Sure, let's loosen up the regulations and give them more tax holidays so they can "create jobs". A cursory Google and/or Wikipedia search, or a mildly intellectual chat with anyone who knows anything about economics will tell you how bogus that line of thinking is.
-5

Bartholomew HarteSep. 15, 2011 - 12:09PM JST

This Carpetbagger would try to sell sand to an arab!-I'm NOT buying it! -but what a way to Buy A few Million Votes!
1

LagunaSep. 15, 2011 - 12:26PM JST

Whoa there, Bart! That's an awful lot of hatred and dog-whistle innuendo there. Buy American provisions are common in federal government-financed public works and have been pretty much forever. If you dislike that, fine: state your opposition. Spewing hate just illustrates your immaturity.
1

OkinawamikeSep. 15, 2011 - 12:52PM JST

"but people will continue to buy cheaper superior Chinese products".

Cheaper yes, superior? Name one thing superior other than "ten thousand years noodle" (noodles made from fish meat). Sweet!
-1

AsagaoSep. 15, 2011 - 03:45PM JST

Chinese anti-satellite missiles are much cheaper and superior to anything America has produced.
0

JapanGalSep. 15, 2011 - 03:57PM JST

Canada and England are America's favorite friends, so why is America doing this?
1

SamuraiBlueSep. 15, 2011 - 04:49PM JST

AsagaoSep. 15, 2011 - 09:41AM JST; Obama may say buy American, but people will continue to buy cheaper superior Chinese products.

Buy American is not just a slogan but also a clause within most federal procurement conditions in which any product purchased by the government, X% must be of US origin goods. This kind of unfair trade acts happened back in the 80's with the widening gap of trade deficit. Japan developed various factories to overcome this act but in those days the conditions were products made in North American not limiting to USA. If this thing comes really comes into effect some of the Big Three automobiles will be affected as well as some of Boeing airplanes. In this modern day in age of globalization, you can't limit most product to be made from one nation.
0

ExportExpertSep. 15, 2011 - 07:30PM JST

Yeah weak $ and now a buy american campaign, something fishy going on can ya smell it?

Obama said he was going to get the U.S. back on top and if that means having a weak $ to make their export companies more competitive then thats what he'll do right ?
0

TrentonGaijinSep. 15, 2011 - 08:59PM JST

I don't think that Canada's the target of any "Buy American" idea.... And aside from the car manufacturers in Ontario (Ford, Lincoln & some others), I can't think of much that's "Made in Canada" (oh wait, I had some Mallowmars yesterday that were made in Canada). OTOH, I can't think of much that isn't made in China- lots of stuff that used to be made in the US, then Mexico, & now China (all cheap & disposable). Maybe someday it'll be India or Africa- wherever labor's cheapest so profits are highest.

Maybe it just seems that everything's "Made in China" because of the stores I shop in, but it would be nice to have a choice. I would (& have) gladly paid more for items made in the US, Mexico, Canada, Japan, Europe, etc. Just really hard to find them....
0

SerranoSep. 15, 2011 - 09:51PM JST

"Buy American"

OK, I'll buy a made in America Toyota.

"Canada's International Trade Minister Ed Fast"

In the U.S. he be known as Fast Eddie.
0

Taka313Sep. 15, 2011 - 09:55PM JST

I'm not a fan of the "buy American" initiative. I buy the best product for the best value. If that product is American, so be it. Buying American solely for the sake of buying American is subsidizing mediocrity. The last time I remember a big "buy American" campaign going on was in the 70's and 80s when Detroit was pumping out mediocre cars and Japan was starting to sell more cars that were of higher quality. Japan ended up passing the American market and I believe the buy American campaign contributed to that because it subsidized mediocrity and then people left for a better product.

Taka
1

sakuralaSep. 15, 2011 - 09:59PM JST

Although it is great that America wants to support local business, they have to fulfill their free-trade agreement obligations. Canadians and Mexicans have had to follow the rules, even when the situation was difficult.

Raw materials and products that are usually purchased from Canadians are at risk of these protectionist measures. Canada is also concerned that Americans might overlook Canadian companies that do qualify for the buy American campaign. I can see Canadas reason for concern.
1

yabitsSep. 15, 2011 - 10:16PM JST

The last time I remember a big "buy American" campaign going on was in the 70's and 80s when Detroit was pumping out mediocre cars and Japan was starting to sell more cars that were of higher quality.

Sadly, the lessons of quality mass production via statistical process control and the concepts of profound knowledge that were begun during the US's war effort by folks like Shewhart, Deming, and Juran were ignored by American top management after the war.

When the war began, the Japanese calculated that American production could never reach the levels required to defeat them within 5 years. After it was over, they wanted to know why they so badly miscalculated -- which led them to W. Edwards Deming and Joseph Juran. The two were invited to Japan to teach them fundamental quality production concepts, which the Japanese then improved upon.

The rest is history.

But Deming would say, as he always had, that the problem with America is American management. Before his death in the early 1990s, he was seeing a disturbing trend of Japanese managers increasingly copying American management techniques -- causing him to predict a serious decline for Japan in the years ahead.

All that said, "free trade" agreements and protective tariffs are simply tools to attain a purpose. Saying that either is wrong or right depends upon the situation. Saying that either is always right is insane.
1

SuperLibSep. 16, 2011 - 01:44AM JST

While I don't disagree with you Yabits, it's not quite that easy. Both governments worked to make Japanese a manufacturing powerhouse. I met a guy who was a lawyer for Casio in the 80s and he told me that the US government basically let the Japanese come in and take the market. He said he always wondered what the US got in exchange, but it was obviously an exchange. My guess it was the military bases.

You also have governments acting to create certain types of economies, like China. Their currency is artificially low to make them more competitive. They want to build things around exports and governments can manipulate the market to do that. Japan decided to be an exporting country and made banks give loans to companies who focused on exports, like the automotive industry. There's good and bad in both situations. Japan got to build a large manufacturing base while keeping foreign competitors out and the US lost jobs from domestic manufacturers. But now Honda and Toyota are opening factories in the US and Japan is losing jobs in the automotive industry. Since Japan intentionally set the bar high for imports, it's difficult for them to bring foreign capital into the country. For the US, on the other hand, it's much easier.

On the other side of the ocean you have a company like Airbus that was funded by the government and put in a position where it could not fail. It amounts to an American company going up against a foreign government and companies don't have pockets that deep. Airbus builds quality airplanes but in reality they shouldn't exist in the first place because no private company would have ever gotten off the ground.

Not only that but you have governments doing the same to other governments. If you want to see some stunning losses check out China's rail industry and foreign contracts overseas. They're taking losses of hundreds of millions of dollars just to get contracts. That is a situation where quality goes out the window completely.

I don't really support Obama or anyone who says to buy American as a policy regardless of quality, but compared to the rest of the world the US has a lot of catching up to do in terms of playing the game. Right now it looks like they're taking the route of a cheap dollar to increase exports. US exports have nearly doubled and it has absolutely nothing to do with quality.
0

MadvertsSep. 16, 2011 - 02:17AM JST

Seems to me us Brits tried this tack only to realize we didn't manufacture much anymore, and what little we still did produce were poor quality goods.

Perhaps if the media stopped rabbiting on about how much doom and gloom there is in the world today people might actually start spending again anyhow...
0

hachikoreloadedSep. 16, 2011 - 02:48AM JST

First off thanks to Trenton for informing us that Canada has mallowmars to offer the world...if they have ANYTHING else (ice hockey doesn't cut it & curling was created elsewhere) to offer i'd be willing to listen to a "buy Canadian" campaign.
0

TigermothIISep. 16, 2011 - 04:07AM JST

Is a mallowmar anything like a moon pie? I used to live near the Canadian border but was more familiar with poutine.

Sorry but in today's economy and with a family people are going for the cheap rather than trying to buy American. Or conversely buy for quality, which is rarely American. It's unfortunate, but it's economics.
1

MadvertsSep. 16, 2011 - 04:53AM JST

Hold on...

Cheap isn't American but neither is quality?

That sounds inferior to chinese goods, and that sounds impossible. But it does sound like my earlier British example.

At the end of the day supply is dictated by demand. People will by shite if it is cheaper, rather than the older adage that quality is king.

I'm no expert in American goods, all I have to go by in my own experience is their auto industry. Back in the heydeys of innovation and quality counts, the Americans were masters. Skip to the 70's and 80's, they made crap to compete against Japcrap, where the Japenese ultimately won - making crap, but reliable crap, unlike the Americans.

Until humans are ready to discard the shameless wasteful, cheap and throwaway ideology China has given us - over quality built to last products, the Chinese will continue to trounce us all by copying our ideas and cheap labour.

I'd welcome a return to built and guaranteed for life. And I'd certainly spend the extra money for those reasurances rather than accumalate junk that is built along the mentality of a Bic razor...

But it could be that those days are over, my thoughts nothing but nostalgia for the past days of western ingenuity!
0

yabitsSep. 16, 2011 - 07:26AM JST

While I don't disagree with you Yabits, it's not quite that easy.

I fully agree that the entire issue is not an easy one.

I tend to be very old-fashioned in some respects. I believe that we should keep our lines of supply for things like food, clothing and necessary commodities as short as possible. That means we have to maintain the knowledge of how to produce things. In my experience and observations, Americans hold knowledge in very low regard. It's the thing that it killing us because it leads to very poor decisions.

The families of the auto producers in my Detroit-area neighborhood loaded up on Japanese-made TVs and consumer electronics in the 1960s -- and didn't think twice about saving US electronics companies. (Writing this made me think about one of the last ones: Curtis-Mathes.)

When I served overseas in the 1970s and came back to the U.S. in 1978, I was shocked to find "Made in Korea" slacks at a major retailer selling for nearly $40 -- while the same slacks could have been bought on the streets for less than $5. I don't think the consumer wants to believe that the $35 difference is a form of tax -- since it's taking money out of his pockets -- but it's also a very destructive one since it's jeopardizing fellow Americans who are producing slacks and contributing far more to the tax base than the retailer is.

No matter how destructive it is to one's own country, it is obvious why someone would want to buy slacks at $5 and sell them at $35. I believe, however, it's the straight and wide road leading to hell.
0

yabitsSep. 16, 2011 - 07:35AM JST

Until humans are ready to discard the shameless wasteful, cheap and throwaway ideology China has given us - over quality built to last products, the Chinese will continue to trounce us all by copying our ideas and cheap labour.

I'd welcome a return to built and guaranteed for life. And I'd certainly spend the extra money for those reasurances rather than accumalate junk that is built along the mentality of a Bic razor...

Wow...really well said, Madverts.
-1

Taka313Sep. 16, 2011 - 09:47PM JST

Until humans are ready to discard the shameless wasteful, cheap and throwaway ideology China has given us - over quality built to last products, the Chinese will continue to trounce us all by copying our ideas and cheap labour.

I'd welcome a return to built and guaranteed for life. And I'd certainly spend the extra money for those reasurances rather than accumalate junk that is built along the mentality of a Bic razor...

That's how I shop. That's why I went to mac over PCs. Because I'll pay a little extra to get a better quality product that doesn't leave me feeling cheated.

Taka