Thursday February 16, 2012

Canada's governor general eats seal heart

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  • 0

    Sarge

    I wouldn't eat a seal's raw heart.

  • 0

    TheQuestion

    So?

  • 0

    adaydream

    Sarge would you eat a piece of seal steak?

    I see no problem. There is no evidence of extintion of the species and as it is they cull 300,000 a year without any danger of dieing off. < :-)

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    I can't see how anyone can argue how the seal hunt is 'humane'; it most certainly is not.

    Anyway, the woman does have a lot of guts, I'd say, though it is indeed bizarre what she did. At least she could put her money where her mouth is, to an extent.

  • 0

    cleo

    Couldn't she just kiss babies, like other pathetic, fishing-for votes pollies do?

  • 0

    neverknow2

    an EU vote earlier this month to impose a ban on seal products on grounds that the seal hunt is cruel.

    An EU vote you say? Too cruel you say? Has anyone ever heard of bullfighting? They only torture the animal and do not eat it.

    I don't see what all the fuss is about. It seems the majority of hunters are not being cruel.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Creepy.

  • 0

    timorborder

    Far enough, different strokes for different folks. If you put aside the emotion that is connected to this issue, I have no problem with the Canadian GG feasting on this delicacy (lol). At the very least, it is good to see her prepare meat herself.

  • 0

    Triumvere

    Eeeew.

  • 0

    bushlover

    Animal rights groups believe Canada’s annual seal hunt is cruel, poorly monitored and provides little economic benefit. Sealers and Canadian authorities say it is sustainable, humane and provides income for isolated communities.

    Yes it's sustainable. There are an abundance of seals.

    EU governments are to sign the ban into law on June 25th after the European Parliament voted overwhelmingly to impose the measure.

    There's a word Euros are familiar with: 'impose'. It's all kind of Nazish isn't it? Or like how they say it's alway 'America' that is 'imposing' this and that on the world. But they see no wrong in their own Talibanish style of rulings. All the PETA, animal loving hypocrites are gonna hate the Canadians now.

  • 0

    Altria

    Sounds like the Canadian version of Sarah Palin.

  • 0

    LostinNagoya

    This article left out a very sad point: the way seals are hunted. Usually babies trying to flee from a man who is clubbing it to death. It´s horrible. I thought this sort of thing belonged to famine stricken countries, not to Canada.

  • 0

    LIBERTAS

    "I see no problem. There is no evidence of extintion of the species and as it is they cull 300,000 a year without any danger of dying off."

    Well said!

  • 0

    cleo

    What's 'well said' about it? It's the same rubbishy nonsense argument we hear from the whalers - as though having lots of a particular species somehow makes it OK and even clever to inflict unimaginable suffering on individuals of that species. There are pushing 7 billion humans on the planet, no danger at all of us dying out (unless our democratically-elected or otherwise leaders blow us all to kingdom come).

  • 0

    dennis0bauer

    he should have clubbed a cute baby seal with big eyes to death in front of the journalists, i bet the would all agree that it is "not" inhumane

    And seal fur is a luxury item, who has money for luxury items at the moment?

  • 0

    cleo

    seal fur is a luxury item

    According to the BBC, the number of hunters has dropped because the price of seal pelts has dropped. The market is fading away as more people realise what they're paying for.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8069249.stm

    I wouldn't be surprised if Ms Bloodthirsty I-eat-the-still-warm-hearts-of-my-innocent-victims Jean gets notice from the lady who appointed her, informing her that she needs to look for a new job. It's surely not her place to go directly and publicly against the policies of the authority to which she owes her position, and the UK as a member of the EU is opposed to the seal hunt. If Jean doesn't get her marching orders, the Queen isn't doing her job.

  • 0

    Madverts

    The EU can be a pain in the ass for a lot of things. It is causing enough grief within Europe without moaning at the Canadians.

  • 0

    thundercat

    Couldn't she just kiss babies, like other pathetic, fishing-for votes pollies do?

    She is appointed, not elected.

  • 0

    Pukey2

    If the North Americans want their fur and seal meat, then have it. But they have no right to shove it down the throats of other people. How would you like it if Japan demanded you buy natto and geta? Freedom of choice to have and freedom of choice to reject.

  • 0

    taj

    I thought this sort of thing belonged to famine stricken countries, not to Canada.

    Please remember, Canada is made up of lots of sorts of folks, such as for instance, Ms. Jean, the current head of state, who came to the country as a refugee from one of the world's most starving nations. I wonder if her background has given her a slightly different view of food from what some of us have. (I could never have eaten raw carcass of any sort!)

    Michaelle Jean is neither a "fishing-for-votes polly" nor typical. Despite my own vegetarianiness, she's just scored points with me. (Weird that.)

  • 0

    VOR

    Last time I checked, seals were somewhere between mullet and polar bears on the food chain. What is all the commotion about? Seals were put on this planet to be eaten and worn. Its not like the Inuits can walk into a Schlotzskys when they are hungry. More outrage from a misguided few.

  • 0

    cleo

    Seals were put on this planet

    Heaven help us, another Darwin denier.

  • 0

    VOR

    ...to be eaten. ooishi

  • 0

    thundercat

    I think the article speaks for itself that this was a largely ceremonial and traditional affair. The only way you are going to be able to change that is by building a time machine and travelling back a few hundred years to teach the Inuit how to grow corn and wheat in the tundra.

  • 0

    cleo

    thundercat -

    If people choose to live in the frozen north where the only source of food is fishy-smelly seal meat, fine, let them eat that and preserve their traditions. A handful of men out on the ice catching one adult seal each a month (if that) to feed and clothe their families is no big deal. What is a big deal is when tradition is thrown to the four winds and opportunist hunters engage in an orgy of bloody cruelty - dragging conscious seals across the ice floes with boat hooks, shooting seals and leaving them to suffer in agony, stockpiling dead and dying animals, and even skinning seals alive - purely for the money. It's a commercial hunt, not a traditional subsistence hunt. A handful of diehard traditionalists hanging on in the far north do not need to kill hundreds of thousands of baby seals in a mad frenzy in order to preserve their traditional way of life. No one needs to skin those seals while they are alive and still conscious.

    Closing the EU and other markets should have no effect at all on the traditional lifestyle of the Inuit - only on the pockets of the commercial butchers who cannot be bothered to take the time to ensure that a seal is dead before they take its skin and leave its body to rot on the ice.

    'We eat meat so any method of killing, no matter how much the animal suffers, is OK' simply does not cut it.

    As for Ms Jean - an exhibitionist who by rights will soon be out of a job. She has overstepped the boundaries of her supposedly non-partisan position.

  • 0

    Azrael

    I'm aghast. If any image remains in my mind regarding Governor General Michaelle Jean is a complete savage eating a bleeding heart like Hannibal the Cannibal, complete with blood and gore like Hollywood's best - but this was not SFX. Whatever message whatsoever she wanted to impress upon people's mind went flying out of the window. Who could not possible cringe at the imagery she has displayed? Thank goodness there is no photo attached to this article. People eat chicken, cows, sushi everyday - but tearing out a creature's heart and swallowing a slice for the sole purpose of staging a publicity stunt that is not even true (the Inuit have protection of the law) is simply despicable and nauseating. I sure hope it comes back to her.

  • 0

    thundercat

    cleo-

    I'm sorry, I generally agree with a lot of the opinions you post on JT but on this thread you reek of ignorance.

    If people choose to live in the frozen north where the only source of food is fishy-smelly seal meat, fine, let them eat that...

    That sentence stinks worse than seal carcass.

    It's a commercial hunt, not a traditional subsistence hunt.

    Do you have any idea how Canada was founded? Fur trading is a tradition that also happens to be commerical. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.

    A handful of diehard traditionalists hanging on in the far north do not need to kill hundreds of thousands of baby seals in a mad frenzy in order to preserve their traditional way of life.

    Another stinker. First of all, it's entire communities that are hanging on to their traditions. Secondly, most of the commercial hunt that you seem to tie in with the Inuit has nothing to do with them at all. Your problem is with the out of work fishermen from New Foundland and Labrador who take to seal hunting to support their families.

    To be honest, I'm not a supporter of the commerical hunt either. I'm just tired of listening to people spout off about things they really don't understand. Do yourself a favour and spend a little time learning before you condemn. Just watching Green Peace and Sea Shepard snuff films doesn't count as 'educating yourself'.

  • 0

    nandakandamanda

    I have eaten similar or 'worse' things here in Japan. Sometimes we have to eat things in order to satisfy tradition or the expectation of the host or to pass some kind of test.

    I have to say that she really went for the publicity stunt there, though.

  • 0

    cleo

    Fur trading is a tradition that also happens to be commerical.

    It's a tradition that has passed its sell-by date. The price of seal pelts has fallen - why? Because people don't want them anymore.

    most of the commercial hunt that you seem to tie in with the Inuit has nothing to do with them at all. Your problem is with the out of work fishermen from New Foundland and Labrador who take to seal hunting to support their families.

    I thought I made it pretty clear that there was a difference between subsistence hunting by the Inuit, and the free-for-all engaged in by the outsiders. Any tie-in is in your imagination.

    I'm just tired of listening to people spout off about things they really don't understand.

    By all means explain what there is to 'understand' about baby seals being hooked through the eye sockets and flung onto boats, or skinned while still alive and conscious, or bodies being left to rot. None of that has anything to do with subsistence hunting, and if it's a traditional part of the commercial hunt then the commercial hunt needs to go.

    Jean seems to be trying to tie in the Inuit hunt with the commercial hunt; the EU ban on seal products has specific exemptions for the Inuit hunt, a fact which Jean apparently doesn't understand, or is trying to hide behind her exhibitionism.

  • 0

    cleo

    The take of one Inuit man -

    We are skillful hunters who hunt adult animals for food, That is not the same as bashing a pup, which can’t move, over the head. In fact, if the seal hunt stopped, we would benefit the most. There would be 180,000 more seals left for us to eat when they are a few years older, and also people would not have such an aversion to sealskin products as they have after seeing the way they kill the pups, so craft work made with adult seals would be more popular. The Hudson Bay Company and the government are just using the Inuit to further their own purposes...... I am an Inuk, and I oppose the seal hunt

    http://liberationbc.org/issues/seal_hunt#ixzz0GlEIciPo&A

  • 0

    bushlover

    [I wouldn't be surprised if Ms Bloodthirsty I-eat-the-still-warm-hearts-of-my-innocent-victims Jean gets notice from the lady who appointed her, informing her that she needs to look for a new job. It's surely not her place to go directly and publicly against the policies of the authority to which she owes her position, and the UK as a member of the EU is opposed to the seal hunt. If Jean doesn't get her marching orders, the Queen isn't doing her job.]

    I bet the Queen doesn't want a repeat of 1776 and those years of the British being defeated over in their colonies. Too bad times change. I guess this GG eating a heart is supporting her local populations and as for the commercial seal hunt well that is too bad what you 'think' because as long as there are millions of seals there can be a hunt. Your excuses of them being 'skinned alive' are just liberal propoganda from animal lovers who will use any excuse to try and further their 'cause'. Good luck on that.

    [commercial butchers who cannot be bothered to take the time to ensure that a seal is dead before they take its skin and leave its body to rot on the ice.]

    This gem of a quote shows how desperate you are to grab at straws. How can something 'rot on the ice' if it's on ice? I think it would freeze first. Found many frozen or for that matter rotten carcasses on any northern ice lately? I haven't seen the photoshoped pics yet.

  • 0

    cleo

    this GG eating a heart is supporting her local populations

    How? By linking Inuit subsistence hunting with the EU ban on seal products from the commercial hunt? That would seem to be doing the local population a disservice, not supporting them. See my post above. if the seal hunt stopped, we would benefit the most

    All she had to do, when asked if her actions were a message to Europe, was to say 'No, I'm just joining in a local community festival'.

  • 0

    thundercat

    cleo, you said:

    A handful of diehard traditionalists hanging on in the far north do not need to kill hundreds of thousands of baby seals in a mad frenzy in order to preserve their traditional way of life.

    Which seemed to imply the Inuit were the diehard traditionalists because they are the only ones who live and 'hangout' in the far north. I'm not confused but you seem to be.

    As I stated before, some people don't have the option to be vegetarians but you still seem to hold all those who do not conform to your values in contempt. Furthermore, every argument I have from you is an emotional tale of blood thirsty, frenzied madmen bathing in the blood of cute seal pups. Give me something more than just emotional hearsay. Even the E.U. restriction argument doesn't hold water as the boycott is forced on everyone by 'animal rights' advocates who use emotional arguments to sway opinion. Would you still be oppossed to the seal hunt if it were done in a completely humane way? My guess is no... which is strange given the fact that you would have no reason for your opposition, except for your personal beliefs.

    Your earlier argument was against both the eating of and commerical use of seals. Now you use an Inuk's argument for eating and commerical use of seals as a way to defend your previous argument??? It seems that the only problem this man has with the seal hunt is that it's not Inuit who reap the benefits.

  • 0

    teleprompter

    I'm not at all surprised by the European contempt here for native North American peoples.

  • 0

    cleo

    Which seemed to imply the Inuit were the diehard traditionalists because they are the only ones who live and 'hangout' in the far north. I'm not confused but you seem to be

    It seems you are confused. The bloody commercial hunt takes place out in the east (Gulf of St Lawrence and east of Newfoundland), not in the far north.

    Give me something more than just emotional hearsay.

    The fact that seal pups are often skinned alive is well documented by independent observers. If the kind of cruelty that would be unacceptable in any abattoir in the civilised world is fine by you, then I'm sorry but that's a matter for you and your conscience. Nothing I write here is going to change that.

    Would I still be opposed to the seal hunt if it were done in a completely humane way? (I see you acknowledge that it is NOT done in a humane way. Thank you.) Yes, I would be opposed to it, just as I am opposed to what happens in those humane abattoirs. But it would not disgust me like present hunt practices do.

  • 0

    thundercat

    cleo, you clearly said

    A handful of diehard traditionalists hanging on in the far north

    I know very well where the hunts take place, I tried to correct you on that, but you still seem to be on the attack.

    Your claim of independent observers is a total farce. Who are these people? Independent observers from the SS? Independent observers from the American Humane Society? From Green Peace? There are no independent observers during the seal hunt. The only ones there are hunters and those who oppose the hunt.

    I also already said I was against the commerical hunt. COMMERCIAL hunt. You are against any form of hunting. You use emotional arguments and stirring rhetoric to try and convince others. This is what I have a problem with. Some people choose to eat meat, some people have to eat meat (and some people, like the GG eat raw seal heart during ceremonial affairs). Some people choose to wear fur, some people have to wear fur.

    BTW, this story is a little over the top. The entire affair was ceremonial and the GG was offered the heart. Had she declined I'm sure some would be claiming she is an insensitive racist.

  • 0

    cleo

    cleo, you clearly said A handful of diehard traditionalists hanging on in the far north

    Yes, and I clearly said I had no problem with genuine subsistence hunting. The bloodbath that takes place to the east is not subsistence, and not hunting.

    There are no independent observers during the seal hunt. The only ones there are hunters and those who oppose the hunt.

    No official government observers to ensure that abuses don't take place and the law doesn't get broken? Why ever not, one wonders (cynically). Even abattoirs have inspectors.

    the GG was offered the heart

    Not what the article says.

    Jean turned to the woman beside her and asked: “Could I try the heart?”

  • 0

    thundercat

    no problem with genuine subsistence hunting

    So as long as people have just enough to survive that's ok...

    If you want to see differing opinions on the matter just read a little more than

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/27/jean-hunt.html

    The headline is:

    Would have been an insult not accept seal heart: Gov. Gen.

    The only article I've read with the 'Could I try the heart' quote is this one.

  • 0

    cleo

    The only article I've read with the 'Could I try the heart' quote is this one.

    Most accounts say she not only asked, she asked enthusiastically -

    http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1123934.html

    http://www.680news.com/news/headlines/more.jsp?content=200905260642455696

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/639977

    http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/05/26/9571931.html

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/usandamericas/article6371361.ece

    It sounds like she didn't realise how much of a furore she would cause, and is now trying to backtrack and suggest it wasn't her idea in the first place. Egg on her face as well as blood.

  • 0

    thundercat

    You spend so much time focusing on the 'could i eat the heart' and ignore my other points. Fine may be she said it. What does that change exactly?

  • 0

    thundercat

    No official government observers to ensure that abuses don't take place and the law doesn't get broken? Why ever not, one wonders (cynically).

    Of course there are officials observing the hunt. But remember, these would most likely be the same officials who allow the hunt and set the quotas. How independent could they possibly be?

    Cleo, you make the argument that the commercial hunt should be banned because of inhumane practices. You use gut wrenching blood filled descriptions to sway opinion but the reality is, and you've said it yourself, that you still won't support it even if it were humane. Why? Because that is what you believe. You even went so far as to make fun of those who depend hunting animals to survive, before you backtracked and said subsistance hunting was acceptable. These are your opinions. Other people believe other things. Get over it.

  • 0

    thundercat

    BTW, of the articles that you linked to, two of them didn't work and the other three were all written by the same person, who is also the source of this article. The article is sensationalist to the extreme. One of the funniest things about this article is the number of comments it received from people who were upset with the biased journalism... Hardly compelling support.

  • 0

    cleo

    you still won't support it even if it were humane. Why?

    There are lots of things I don't 'support'. There's a world of difference between not supporting something and being opposed to something. Or will you not be satisfied until I stand on the ice holding a 'You rock, sealers!' placard and chewing on a bit of seal heart?

    You spend so much time focusing on the 'could i eat the heart' and ignore my other points. Fine may be she said it. What does that change exactly?

    Does that translate out as 'Thank you for putting me right'? You're welcome. :-)

    As an aside, if it doesn't change anything, why bring up the subject in the first place?

    As for your other points - if people want to live the same lives their ancestors way back lived, that's fine. It's their choice. Life was pretty hard back then, especially in those harsh climates. But if they want to enjoy the benefits of modern living, then I'm sorry, one of the bits of baggage that comes with that is modern morality, which tells us that it is not OK to inflict wanton, unnecessary and excessive suffering on other creatures just because we can.

  • 0

    thundercat

    "Support was a poor choice of words on my part. If you are trying to say that you don't oppose it for your own, very personal, reasons than I'm calling you out on it. Need no to hold a placard, I'd be happy if you just recognized that others hold different values from your own.

    I guess the reason that I took such offense to your comments...

    If people choose to live in the frozen north where the only source of food is fishy-smelly seal meat, fine, let them eat that and preserve their traditions.

    A handful of diehard traditionalists hanging on in the far north

    ...is the mocking, condescending way in which you wrote it. You truely don't have respect for a people's tradition if you make those kinds of comments. As someone who has spent a great deal of time in the North-West Territories and the Yukon I've seen first hand what people do to survive there.

    Finally:

    one of the bits of baggage that comes with that is modern morality

    By that you obviously mean your morality, not something we can decide for ourselves.

  • 0

    cleo

    ...is the mocking, condescending way in which you wrote it. You truely don't have respect for a people's tradition if you make those kinds of comments. As someone who has spent a great deal of time in the North-West Territories and the Yukon I've seen first hand what people do to survive there.

    Maybe my tone came over as more mocking than I intended; I have no problem with native peoples genuinely preserving their traditional way of life, even if it's not a lifestyle I would choose. What I do have a problem with is those who hide behind 'fair-weather' traditions, demanding all the perks of modern society then dragging their 'traditions' out of the closet only when it suits them and using them as an excuse for acts of barbarity.

  • 0

    thundercat

    I agree completely with that sentiment. I think it is a rouse that many opportunists take advantage of. If you had been more clear with your argument and come out with this statement earlier I wouldn't have carried on in such a way. Just to be clear though, I wouldn't narrow my classification to simply 'native peoples' as geography plays a role for a number of different demographics and hunting and trapping is a way of life all across Canada.

  • 0

    cleo

    hunting and trapping is a way of life all across Canada.

    bashing a pup, which can’t move, over the head is not hunting, any more than shooting fish in a barrel is a safari.

  • 0

    thundercat

    Evolve.

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