Obama, Clinton meet to discuss how to unite Democrats

Friday 06th June, 02:43 PM JST

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DanManjt at 01:34 PM JST - 8th June

So, how are you doing tracking down source and the accuracy of those most un-American quotes you say Obama wrote?
super delegate at 02:02 PM JST - 8th June

"So, how are you doing tracking down source and the accuracy of those most un-American quotes you say Obama wrote?"

Danman, you're putting words in my mouth. I have not said what Obama wrote was un-American. I have said that what he wrote about race in America is disturbing.

You can argue my characterization of it as disturbing but there is no way you can tell me the media response would be the same if a 'white' candidate (or even a 'black' candidate who happened to be conservative) wrote anything like what Obama did or had not one but two pastors as wacked and obsessed with race as the ones that preach at Obama's "unabashedly black" Trinity Church.
DanManjt at 02:16 PM JST - 8th June

I characterized the words you say Obama wrote as un-American. Thus, no word putting into mouths has been done.

By me But you have.

You have put those most un-American words into Obama's mouth. You say he wrote them. Or rather, you've cut and pasted those words from some undisclosed source. Why should I, or anyone, believe they are true?

Why do you? Why are you so eager to discuss those words, and how the media plays them or doesn't play them, without verifying their accuracy?
Taka313 at 04:50 PM JST - 8th June

You know the obama apologists will be lining up to explain what their hero really "meant to say" when he wrote all those things.

Do you think Sen. McCain will loan us joe lieberman for that or is joe's "what he really meant to say" calendar full?

Taka
SezWho2 at 06:29 PM JST - 8th June

super delegate,

"I ceased...", "I found...", "...could never be...would never be...", "...didn't speak... It was....I'd packed...", "There were...many of us chose...", "It remained...which side you were on..." and "I had grown...."

Do you notice anything about these verbs? What I see in them is that they are in past tenses or speculative moods. It seems to me that Obama is describing a journey of the soul.

I'm about as white as they come and my wife is Japanese. Our daughter is quaintly called "half" and does not at first glance look distinctly either. In Japan--or in the US--that's not so bad. Nonetheless, she has had to make many of the same choices and decisions that Obama talks about and she has gone through many of the same emotional spaces.

I'm guessing that in the US Obama has always looked distinctly black. I think it took some measure of courage for him to reveal how he got to where he is today from where he started and to (presumably honestly) recount his feelings. And I think that the measure of the man is who he is today. Otherwise we should all join in a chorus and repudiate the apostle Paul.

I don't know what would happen if a white candidate were to be equally candid about his thoughts and feelings about race. However, I suspect that there would always be a contingent of people who would mock him, as they mocked Carter for confessing to committing adultery in his heart. My best guess about how that would be received in the black community, though, is with welcome understanding.
yabits at 07:56 PM JST - 8th June

It seems to me that Obama is describing a journey of the soul....

Beautifully said, SezWho2!! (My personal situation is much like yours and, as a white person who grew up in an all-white community, had to learn to come to grips with my own latent feelings about race.)

However, I suspect that there would always be a contingent of people who would mock him..

What's worse than racism in the US today is this brand of cynicism you are pointing towards, this attempt by some to constantly spread hatred and suspicion, this constant need to tear someone else down.
DanManjt at 01:17 AM JST - 9th June

SezWho

You assume the quotes attributed to Obama are authentic. That is a dodgy proposition.

Consider the source:

There is none. Just a bunch of quotes from a Dreams of My Father Hmmm, the book is titled "Dreams from my Father." An inauspicious sign.

Now, I have not read any of Obama's writings, and I doubt that Super D would either, let alone compile a list of damning quotes. From all this, I suspected that Super Delegate had found this compilation somewhere and posted it without verifying its accuracy. I cut and pasted the compiled quoted, googled it and sure enough, came up with:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/didobamawritethathewouldstand.html

After reading through this you may reassess the accuracy of the quotes that Super Delegate says Obama wrote.

Which is not say that I am certain they are fabrications. As I wrote above, I have not read any of Obama's books. For all I know Fact Check is biased too.

But I do know this: its very easy to make up a bunch of lies about a politician running for office and spread them around. One of the easiest ways, of course, is the Internet, the Great source of (dis)information. And there are many attack dogs across the political landscape who have absolutely no compunction about spreading such lies. They have the right to do so, within the limits that we all know, and the price for such freedom is eternal vigilance. Be vigilant in making people support their claims.

In truth, knowing Super Delegate's posting style, I suspected from the get go that his little list would be compromised, that he would have no little interest in substantiating its authenticity, and that is why after having discovered the likely bogus nature of these quotes, I challenged him to substantiate their accuracy. Because, knowing Super Delegate, I know that he is often much less interested in the truth and more interested in throwing stuff to see what sticks.

For this reason alone I suspected the quotes are fabrications.

But the most compelling reason why its a dodgy proposition to assume the quotes attributed to Obama by Super Delegate are for real is simple: Obama wrote his books to introduce himself to the ** public to get elected.** Even if he thinks those things, and for all I know Obama does, he is a savvy guy; and any first year high-school student would know better than to talk about race and race relations with those words, in those tones, and expect to be liked by white people.
SezWho2 at 06:05 AM JST - 9th June

DanManjt,

Aside from the fact that you seem to be assuming that I'm assuming, I'm OK with what you've said and I think you've raised some good points. And, as it turns out, your assumption was correct.

However, if you'd like to look at some of the quotes that super delegate is talking about in wider context, you can check here:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp

Some of the quoted passages did not come from Obama. Others were taken out of context.

For my purpose, it does not matter whether he actually said all of these things or not. That the things that he did say have been taken out of context and that all these "passages" describe his growth process rather than his present attitude about race are sufficient to refute charges of racism.
SezWho2 at 06:07 AM JST - 9th June

yabits,

Thank you for the post. Yes, I think its the snarky cynicism that's going to tear us further apart before we come closer together.
DanManjt at 06:36 AM JST - 9th June

Touche. As Dr. Phil likes to say, "Assume makes an ass of you and me."

As for Obama's growth process, I don't think the American public really wants a full disclosure on race and race relations. In fact, I think white America will welcome an Obama Presidency just to put the past in the past without all the trouble of vetting it all out.
RomeoRamenII at 08:25 AM JST - 9th June

white America will welcome an Obama Presidency just to put the past in the past without all the trouble of vetting it all out.

heh, keep believing that even though ever since the Wright scandal broke, hillary won state after state.

You liberals love polls so note that poll after poll shows obama is not even a match against Mr. McCain. Bear in mind that the Republican Party is currently headed by somebody who has a 28% approval rating. obama should be enjoying a double-digit edge over Mr. McCain. Instead, he running close to - and in some cases behind - McCain.

Also, anyone who's followed the dem selection process will notice the hillary did not have any problems winning the states that had primaries. She lost mostly in the states that had a caucus; places where the DNC and Lord Soros could control.

Fortunately, they won't be able to do that on Nov. 4th.

Of course, the white guilt liberals will bray on and on that after obama loses on Election Day it will be because whitey wants to keep a brotha down and overlook the fact that he's a woefully unqualified person who should be entrusted to be in control of a nuclear arsenal that can destroy the world approximately 50 times.

RR
DanManjt at 08:45 AM JST - 9th June

RomeoRamenII

Nothing in that rant of yours seems to bear upon the comment you supposedly are responding to. I guess its kind of a free association harangue you right-wingers just love.
RomeoRamenII at 09:17 AM JST - 9th June

I guess its (sp) kind of a free association (sp) harangue you right-wingers just love.

Translation: You are right and I am wrong.

RR
RomeoRamenII at 09:41 AM JST - 9th June

I don't think the American public really wants a full disclosure on race and race relations

Yep, Americans desire a president who has a lunatic racist preacher whom he looks upon as an uncle and his spiritual mentor, and friends/financial backers who include a Syrian convicted felon and American terrorists who're still not sorry that they bombed government buildings including the Pentagon.

You mean that kind of a full disclosure? Heh, yeah, just keep believing that.

RR
Alinsky4prez at 10:52 PM JST - 9th June

Folks - If we've learned anything these last few days it's that the problem of uniting the party, and in fact most problems facing our country, can be solved with one of my special fist bumps.